How long is a purple patch? Alli has a season and a half of good form behind him. He's a damn good player. We can acknowledge this without denigrating our own players. It's not an either/or situation.
Dele Alli is England's best young midfielder playing in Turkey
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
A "purple patch" that's lasted over 1.5 seasons? Sounds more like a purple acreage to me.
And "Pogba is a mile ahead of him in everything but goals" .... except goals just happen to the most important thing of all.
Yeah I think that's fair, he has an amazing football brain for his age and doesn't seem phased either. Martial for all his talent has clearly been affected by personal events and being dropped this season.
I think they'll both go on to be two of the league's best players though, no doubt.
Martial is special, apart from Dembele, Gabriel Jesus (?) Emre Mor at a stretch, i can't think of many attacking talents under the age of 21 near his level, he has the ability to coupled with the athleticism and technique to be a b'allon d'or winner something i don't think Alli despite his huge talent has it in him to do.
I think the best part of his game will always be his numbers, which isn't a bad thing to have going for you, but in the end, when someone like Martial decides to 'switch it on' his scope and upside is bigger than Allis because he is simply a better player in most phases and aspects of the game attacking wise.
Alli is a unique talent as well, but in a modern comparison it would be like comparing a Thomas Muller to an Eden Hazard, one is a great player who got to near the top of their game based on intelligence movement and cool finishing, while the other because of his mercurial maverick talent, one has it in them to be the best in the world, and the other despite getting the very best out of their talents simply doesn't, Alli is probably even more special than Muller because he is genuinely a central midfielder by trade, while Muller has been a forward throughout his career, but still there is a ceiling in which i don't see with Martial potentially.
I think the best part of his game will always be his numbers, which isn't a bad thing to have going for you, but in the end, when someone like Martial decides to 'switch it on' his scope and upside is bigger than Allis because he is simply a better player in most phases and aspects of the game attacking wise.
Alli is a unique talent as well, but in a modern comparison it would be like comparing a Thomas Muller to an Eden Hazard, one is a great player who got to near the top of their game based on intelligence movement and cool finishing, while the other because of his mercurial maverick talent, one has it in them to be the best in the world, and the other despite getting the very best out of their talents simply doesn't, Alli is probably even more special than Muller because he is genuinely a central midfielder by trade, while Muller has been a forward throughout his career, but still there is a ceiling in which i don't see with Martial potentially.
He's playing fantastic and is brilliant to watch right now. His finish for the disallowed goal today was exquisite.
But a player who loses form looks a shadow of his former self. Hazard on fire and Hazard off the boil is a 10/10 player and a 1/10 player. And Alli will lose form at some point. People need to stop exaggerating and heaping pressure and expectation on young players like him. Pseudo-scientific bollocks about 'ceilings' should also be binned. People don't know wtf they're talking about.
But a player who loses form looks a shadow of his former self. Hazard on fire and Hazard off the boil is a 10/10 player and a 1/10 player. And Alli will lose form at some point. People need to stop exaggerating and heaping pressure and expectation on young players like him. Pseudo-scientific bollocks about 'ceilings' should also be binned. People don't know wtf they're talking about.
Or even more for that matter, which is why the Lampard comparisons become more and more apt every day, and I've had huge respect for Lampard for what he did in his PL career.
Its not a psuedo scientific, its just a way of saying i think such and such player will go on to be better than the other despite maybe the actual reason for that being statistically apparent.
Lampard was a great goalscoring midfielder yet i dont think anyone ever though that made him the best midfielder. Iniesta, Xavi and also Scholes when he went to play deeper didnt score a lot of goals but in my opinion all of them were/are better players than Lampard.
Feck me, Alli is even better than I thought then. Iniesta, Makalele, Xavi, Pirlo eat your heart out.
It's a purple patch in the same way that Kane is a one season wonder.
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He's got 22 goals and 16 assists in 1.5 seasons, it's a very good record and I'm not denying his talent but as I said, it doesn't put him ahead of Mata, a player who scored 21 goals and assisted 29 in a single season, he's got a bit of a way to go yet and I'm not denying that he could get there.
As for his comparison to Pogba, you say he's not a pure 10 and as such should grant him extra credit for his goal scoring ability but that's having your cake and eating it. As a centre mid, in comparison to Pogba he's behind in almost every other area. Key passes and chances created, assists, tackles won, aerial duals won, interceptions, total passes (double), successful take ons... the list goes on.
Goals are the most important thing for strikers, not midfielders. But then Ali plays as a second striker anyway.
Clearly that's not his point.
Somewhere along the line certain fans have forgotten that getting the ball over line is ultimately the point of the game. That's what the players are aiming to do.
So if you've got a player who's very good at achieving that aim it can elevate their importance beyond what the rest of their skillset warrants.
This.
Jesus Christ, after that Chelsea game things went out of control in regard to Alli. The guy suddenly became ridiculously overrated with media and fans all joining the ride. Typical of an English youngster going through a purple patch.
Once his goals dries up a bit which will happen, there won't be anything to hype him about and it'll be the same story with these English youngsters in regard to hype and media. Alli is technically quite poor and his overall performances have nothing in them. The Chelsea game being a good example. He was poor on the ball, couldn't influenced play or show any talent technically but scored 2 goals and the hype about him exploded and it's been a few days of over the top overrating of this guy.
In a few weeks time all these current talks will look silly as it often happen with knee jerk like opinions created by the media.
Yep.
I've been told many, many times on here about all these United players that are so much better than their Spurs' equivalent ... it's a miracle than United aren't top of the league.
It won't even be a conversation in a couple of years regarding Pogba vs Alli. People will laugh that it ever was.
If you've seen him before you'd notice he constantly dismisses the idea that Pogba is better than Alli and his main argument is that Alli scores more. There much more to being a midfielder than scoring goals. Nobody is claiming goals are not an amazing asset for a midfielder to have nor that they are irrelevant in comparisons. We all know Pogba needs to score more to be up there at the top.
As I said, he uses the argument that Alli is not just a #10 but then dismisses the argument that in every other facet of being an actual midfielder Pogba is streets ahead of Alli.
Kane and Alli receive lots of praise on this forum and rightly so. Stop the woe is me piss.
I actually wonder how many times you've seen Alli play ... being "technically poor" is not something that describes him. Alli often displays brilliant technique.
As for saying that "his overall performances have nothing in them" .. words fail me.
I rather think "woe is me" is the excuse being given as to why Pogba doesn't score that much. "If only he hadn't hit the woodwork" etc.
Premier League Stats Only
Clubs Alli has scored against:
Stoke City - 3
Southampton FC - 3
Chelsea FC - 2
Watford FC - 2
Leicester City - 1
Aston Villa - 1
West Bromwich Albion - 1
Everton FC - 1
Crystal Palace - 1
Norwich City - 1
West Bromwich Albion - 1
Burnley FC - 1
Manchester United - 1
Manchester City - 1
Totals Min: 4019
Goals: 20
Assists: 12
Goals+Assists: 32
A goal every 201mins
An assist every 335mins
A goal or assist every 126mins
Clubs Alli has scored against:
Stoke City - 3
Southampton FC - 3
Chelsea FC - 2
Watford FC - 2
Leicester City - 1
Aston Villa - 1
West Bromwich Albion - 1
Everton FC - 1
Crystal Palace - 1
Norwich City - 1
West Bromwich Albion - 1
Burnley FC - 1
Manchester United - 1
Manchester City - 1
Totals Min: 4019
Goals: 20
Assists: 12
Goals+Assists: 32
A goal every 201mins
An assist every 335mins
A goal or assist every 126mins
Exactly, remember all that hysteria around Rashford last year. Now we know it was just all media hype because he's English.
Or maybe Rashford despite being English is actually a very real prospect and Could have an excellent career.
When a player of any nationality has stacked up the numbers Alli has at 20 he's going to get understandably hyped. It's not an English thing, I've seen it in Spain when they have high quality youngsters coming through.
Nothing to do with the Chelsea. He's been consintently excellent for 1.5 years and is very young.
Do try harder.
He's not claiming Alli is better than the greats you mentioned though. In the post I saw his point seemed pretty logical. Whilst I think Pogba is the better player(he will end up scoring plenty) goals do trump a lot of other skills.
There's probably a good number of midfielders who have a better first touch, better passing, better heading etc. However his ability to get goals more than makes up for that.
Ozil is better than Alli in so many respects and by quite some distance. Going into a tight, must win game though I know which one I'd want in my team. The guy most likely to get you that winning goal.
Well if that's the case only in the way no one compares Ronaldo and Ribery. The latter is a top player in his own right but not in the conversation with Ronaldo.
Because Alli will be a top player. He's got talent, awareness and already set expectations of himself high. The people who don't put him down and have a snobbish attitude towards him [not just here but generally] wouldn't be like that if he played for United. And he should be at Utd. How we missed out despite seeing him boss us for MK Dons is beyond me.
Imagine this place if Pereira netted double figures in the PL for consecutive seasons by 20
I would say 70 million is about the equivelent of our fee for Rooney in 2004 and I think he is just as exciting and should be bought if possible (which it isn't) for precisely the same reasons.
To be fair, Rashford has 14 goals in 44 appearances (the majority of them now have been lumped out on the wing and sub appearances). Alli has 21 in 71 and is 18 months older.
The truth is Alli sacrifices a lot if the things he is good at to be more threatening, he could stack up more passes, more interceptions, more recoveries etc etc to have more pleasing numbers for some people. But that's not what the kid is about, he's already displayed as a 19 year old that he could play very competently as an alround midfield player in the PL.
I've not put him down or been snobbish about him, I've been nothing but complimentary. I just don't think he's anywhere near the talent Pogba is and a few goals isn't going to change that.Well if that's the case only in the way no one compares Ronaldo and Ribery. The latter is a top player in his own right but not in the conversation with Ronaldo.
Because Alli will be a top player. He's got talent, awareness and already set expectations of himself high. The people who don't put him down and have a snobbish attitude towards him [not just here but generally] wouldn't be like that if he played for United. And he should be at Utd. How we missed out despite seeing him boss us for MK Dons is beyond me.
Imagine this place if Pereira netted double figures in the PL for consecutive seasons by 20
His post seems pretty illogical to me. Using the only (albeit important) thing Alli is better than Pogba at to claim Pogba isn't better than him would only hold up if both players were strikers
The difference is that Pereira brings so much more to a team apart from goals.Well if that's the case only in the way no one compares Ronaldo and Ribery. The latter is a top player in his own right but not in the conversation with Ronaldo.
Because Alli will be a top player. He's got talent, awareness and already set expectations of himself high. The people who don't put him down and have a snobbish attitude towards him [not just here but generally] wouldn't be like that if he played for United. And he should be at Utd. How we missed out despite seeing him boss us for MK Dons is beyond me.
Imagine this place if Pereira netted double figures in the PL for consecutive seasons by 20
I did say generally.
I'm not comparing him with Pogba. Both will be top players with different styles.
So the hype around Rashfird is right and the hype around Alli is just because he's English?
You truly are a troll. There been stats put up here which shows Pogba blowing Alli away in most components of a midfielder. Yet you never bothered to reply to it because it goes against your own habit of picking up stats to suit only your argument while completely ignoring others. Why not tell us stats about pass completion, chance creation, tackles won, intercepts made, assists, take ons done which are equally important from a midfielder's perspective.
I am stunned to not see you claim so far how far ahead of Iniesta is this overhyped Spurs youngster because he scores more than him.
That's clearly not what he's saying. The feck is wrong with you? Do you lot have permanent blue balls from coming close to the title but never winning it?
That's because he is not "streets ahead" in "in every other facet of being an actual midfielder". He is better in many of these respects, but not "streets ahead" in all of those concerned.
And I'd say Alli is better than Pogba in some aspects of the game, quite apart from the gulf in goals. For example, IMO he has more drive and energy - more of a winning mentality - than Pogba.
Have you seen the 'third man runs' stat?
No one here would say that 50 million was a logical fee for Martial. And he has still not justified it yet.