Didn't see the game yesterday but he looks a real talent to me. Not often you see such a young midfielder with such a completely skillset in midfield. He's seemingly got a bit of everyone to his game, and a bit of maturity to go with it. It's early days in his premier league career but I'm interested in seeing what level he can eventually reach.
Dele 'Muhammad' Alli | Walker takes the finger from Dele | FIFA open disciplinary proceedings
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
What a bargain Spurs have found. Makes me think what Powell should've been had it not been for the injuries.
Half a dozen decent games and he's being compared to Pogba! How many til we start comparing him to Scholes and Zidane?
More than Powell, I keep thinking about Possebon. Never came back from that horrific tackle.
Probably the least relevant point in this argument.
My inner cnut wants to say 'probably still lazy and entitled'.
That is an absolutely hilarious post given what you said in the Kane vs Martial thread about 'potential' and when people brought up that Kane is 3 years older.
Apparently it's ok to say Alli has more potential than Pogba ... but not to say Martial has more potential/is more talented than Kane, despite both being 3 years younger and both being better at the age of 19 than the other is.
Alli vs Pogba - Alli is the better player at 19 ergo more potential. Not fair to compare him with the Pogba of right now
Kane vs Martial - doesn't matter about them aged 19, Kane's better now so you can't say Martial's more talented than him.
Classic.
BurnAmong all these comparisons I find Alli reminds me most of young German midfielders that have played a role in their national side. Young, mobile, positive, plays with his head up, slight of build but still durable. I loved the side Roy put out last night, we should be following the Germans and building a side around Dier, Alli, Barkley etc. When you add Stones and eventually Shaw in defence and Kane up front it looks good.
Glaston's gonna Glaston.
Have just wiki'd him - barely playing at all these days.
Good young player. Watched him in the London derby and can't say I was impressed with his reckless tackles, but at 19 years old he can be a bit rash. His goal last night was nice but hugely affected by that deflection.
Aside from his goal I just see a reckless 'destroyer' which I have no desire to see playing for United. If he keeps scoring goals like that I'll be surprised.
Then again, I'll admit I haven't watched him as much as most in here.
Then again, I'll admit I haven't watched him as much as most in here.
He was immense vs arsenal in admittedly one of the few games ive seen of him. Sure, he can put himself about but thats a vital quality in a central midfielder. But he has a decent range of passing, great close control and dribbling and ability to bring others into play with his movement.
I think he's going to be a good all round midfielder with his energy being his main attribute, but I really don't think he will set the world alight. He lacks the ability to really effect the game high up at present, but is definitely a busy little player that can win the ball back well and make good runs to keep the opposition busy.
I thought it was clear when Pogba came on though how much more creative and influential in possession he was, but it was a good start by Alli.
I thought it was clear when Pogba came on though how much more creative and influential in possession he was, but it was a good start by Alli.
Your post is a classic all right .... a classic confusion of two entirely periods of time (i.e. the present and the future). In relation to Alli/Pogba I've been discussing potential (i.e. future highest ceiling). In relation to Kane/Martial the discussion was about who is the more talented player - it wasn't about future potential.
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So potential and talent are unrelated? What's the difference, oh wise one? Because in my, and most other's eyes, 'talent' is exactly what you use to gauge a player's potential. Unless there's some other mythical force I'm unaware of that defines potential in a player? Whether they play for Spurs or not, maybe?
Looks good everytime i watch him, let's see how he develops, shown a lot of potential so far.
Really like the lad, think he has adapted to top level football with ease and really is showing signs of constant improvement.
Deserved his England cap for me and certainly showed he has the potential to apply himself at a very high level. It's difficult to say he will be this, or that, or wont be this or that. The lad is young, showing all signs of promise and doing everything right currently. There are so many factors that influence a player's eventual talent. All I hope is he carries on and develops into a quality central midfielder capable of big things in the future.
Spurs have a really good prospect there, fair play to them.
and if he ends up really good and a potential world beater he'll end up at our place for a big fee just like any other good player of theirs we have wanted before fecking off to Real Madrid for a bigger fee.
Deserved his England cap for me and certainly showed he has the potential to apply himself at a very high level. It's difficult to say he will be this, or that, or wont be this or that. The lad is young, showing all signs of promise and doing everything right currently. There are so many factors that influence a player's eventual talent. All I hope is he carries on and develops into a quality central midfielder capable of big things in the future.
Spurs have a really good prospect there, fair play to them.
and if he ends up really good and a potential world beater he'll end up at our place for a big fee just like any other good player of theirs we have wanted before fecking off to Real Madrid for a bigger fee.
Agreed. Him and Dier look a very good prospect together. Cost less than £10m combined. Great business by Levy.
Before you posted I had changed the word "terms" for "periods of time" (i.e. the present and the future)" as this explains things better. But by mistake this appeared as a new post rather than a change to my quoted reply - a new post that I've now deleted in favour of making the same changes in my quoted reply.
Anyhow .... potential is obviously about the future, a player's highest ceiling. So talent feeds into potential, but talent also exists in the here-and-now and there are many other factors besides innate talent that determine a player's potential, factors such as commitment to hard work and training development, physical attributes (e.g. a player can be talented, but easily knocked off the ball), character, footballing intelligence and so on.
So I'm glad we can agree that you contradicted yourself, then.
EDIT: And your 'period of time' hardly holds up as that's exactly what I was talking about with you in the Kane thread. I said Kane was a better player now, but Martial was more talented e.g. had more potential. I wasn't discussing the present.
That 3-week injury breaking career really broke him. Very few players have ever come back from being 3 weeks sidelined.
Pogba was a beast at Alli's age. He was held back too long. The first chance he gets at United and the first chance he got at Juve, he stole the show and made himself a household name. I've not seen a great deal of Alli but he's certainly not blown me away unlike Pogba, where you could see the talent as soon as you watch him. I didn't think he was particularly great when we played MK either.
He's not a destroyer. He's a box to box midfielder who tackles hard gets about the pitch and has ability on the ball. Whether he can build on this great start is another matter, but he's shown a wide skill set so far.
Ruben Neves and Tielemans have more potential than both Dier and Alli and are only 18.
I agree Pogba is not a good comparison for Alli, keeping with French players he looks more like Kondogbia or fit Diaby.
He's still a very good prospect and it will be interesting to see how he develops. I don't expect him to be the kind of player the top teams will throw 50M+ at just yet.
No, I haven't contradicted myself because I haven't previously said that talent doesn't feed into potential. Your problem is that you equate potential solely with talent and wrongly use the two terms as if they were interchangeable, when in truth there are many additional factors involved in potential, some of which I've previously listed.
How do you define talent?
If we're going to play the "I didn't specifically say that game" then ... I didn't specifically say that.
You are contradicting yourself. You've admitted there's a correlation between talent & potential yet when comparing Kane & Martial you dismissed the talent aspect whereas when comparing Alli and Pogba, you've used potential as the key argument, and seeing as you said talent and potential are related ... hey presto, contradiction.
The lengths you go to to try and squirm and weave your way out of these silly statements and contradictions is very entertaining though.
Glaston has no idea what potential actually means.
Talent feeds into potential, but that's not the same as correlation because sometimes talented players end up not realising their potential. And you may not have specifically said that talent equates simply to potential, but you've strongly implied it in everything you've said.
I haven't dismissed the talent aspect concerning any player (whether Kane, Martial or whoever), I've simply said that talent is only one factor in potential. And in any case, Kane clearly has plenty of talent.
You don't seem to understand the actual meaning of a fair few words involve in this conversation - and hence you see contradictions where none exist.
I don't see that Pogba has more potential than Alli, because Alli has done more and shown more than did Pogba at the same age. And Martial has yet to prove he's more talented than Kane, especially considering that Kane's talent centres mostly on goal-scoring and in the current calendar year he's scored more league goals than any other striker in the Prem bar none.
I've already given several factors that are involved in measuring potential, a measure that goes well beyond talent alone.
... but players always end up realising their talent?
You seem to think talent exists only in the present tense (incorrect) and potential exists in the future tense (correct) whereas in reality you can use both, easily, to gauge how good a player will become in the future. Talent is not immediately related to the present like you seem to think it is. You're either being incredibly thick (likely) or on a WUM (also likely) if you think talent and potential aren't practically very similar minus a few small differences when it comes to how good a player can become in the future.
it doesn't matter if you think there's more to potential than talent, they're still related, that is fact that you admitted to yourself and therefore you are being contradictory by using two very similar comparisons and arguing the complete opposite for them.
I don't really care about the Pogba v Alli debate, never said anything about it in here, don't plan to.
Potential = Talent + Attitude + Facilities. Unless you think that Kane's and Martial's attitudes vary or that facilities provided by two Premier League differ vastly then this is stupid.
The definition varies according to role and position in a team. Which role and position do you have in mind?
Sounds about right. Talent being the key factor in potential, something Glaston would probably agree with if he wasn't trying to make excuses for completely contradicting himself.
Yeah, if you have talent you can work on your attitude and find facilities (most time they will find you).
There's just really no reply that can do justice to the absurdity of that opinion. Pogba was a pivotal player in a team that was one game away from winning a treble, Alli's had a few good games in the Premier League. Pull your pants back up please, there is a reason Pogba was chased by various big clubs in the summer and will sell for more than treble whatever Spurs could sell Alli for. Your logic is the equivalent of me saying Sterling has more potential than Neymar because Sterling proved himself (in a big league) at a younger age than Neymar did. When there's such a big gap between players, the few years difference becomes immaterial.
So based on a handful of premier league games etc, you believe Alli has the potential to be the best CM in the world?