Do we extend Ole's contract?

[Big Ben Foster]

The answer is an unequivocal feck no. Ole Gunnar Solskjaer is a serial loser and out of his depth to paraphrase a Scottish pundit.

I'll start by saying that it's bizarre for fans to demand world class defenders, midfielders and attackers but somehow be content with a mediocre Norwegian coach whose main qualification for the job is being a former player.

Myth: Give him time, even SAF and Klopp took a while to get it right.

Reality: Both SAF and Klopp had winning CV's and pedigree in spades. Ole has none of the pedigree required to manage the biggest club in the land.

Fergie won three league titles in Scotland with a team not named Celtic or Rangers, won a European cup winners cup against Real Madrid and a European supercup. Yes he didn't win right away at United, but he earned himself time. Klopp broke the Bayern hegemony in Germany, won 2 Bundesliga's on the bounce and a Pokal, drove his team to the CL final with some heavy metal football.

What does Ole stand for? What are the patterns of play he's iinstilling in the team. Expecting Ole to get it right at the highest level it's like expecting McFred to become Xaviesta if you give them time: it ain't going to happen.

Myth: All this chopping and changing is bad for the club

Reality: Not necessarily. Big clubs chop and change all the time. Chelsea has gone to 3 CL finals, and every single time it's been with a manager that did not start the season (Grant, Di Matteo, Tuchel). Bayern Munich won last year after geting rid of a mediocre Kovac. They changed coach again (in fact 7 or 8 clubs are starting with new managers in Germany and 6 or 7 in Italy) and I suspect they'll be super competitive again.

We've been sold this massive industrial scale overhaul that OGS is undertaking to turn around Manchester United, and on a longer timeframe than the Chinese take to build a megacity for million of inhabitants. I know English people are married to tradition and move slow, but it's a football club ffs, don't overcomplicate it. Get the right coach and the right players and 9 times out of 10 it will work jus fine. Sometimes you don't even need 5 years for it to happen.

Myth: We're definitely moving forward, there is clear progress.

Progress from what? We've gotten 66 points, 66 points and 74 points with Ole in charge. 74 points wouldn't get you a top 4 in a season when all the big 6 are having a good season.

2nd place is not progress when Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea had an off year. Tuchel came in when they were 9th and they made top 4 and won the CL... that's progress. I expect United to fight for Top 4 next season, not titles unfortunaely. Which suits Glazers fine btw.

Myth: But the transfer spending at least has been good. AWB, Maguire, Van de Beek, Amad, Telles, Dan James, Fernandes have all been great.

Reality: It's a mixed bag. Ole didn't trust the bench against a second rate Spanish team in a European final. Between Amad, Dan James, Telles, Van de Beek he didn't have it in him to bring them before the 116th minue when the starting 11 were running on fumes. Individually Maguire and AWB are good players, but is our defense fixed? I would not think so. Why spunk on Van Der Beek when the priority is a CDM?

It's not all doom and gloom obviously. He's a good influence on the dressing room, he stabilized the club, he stands for United values of youth, he's overssen the emergence of Greenwood, the resurgence of Shaw, the transfer of Bruno Fernandes and Cavani. He's a United legend, and I'd rather win with him rather than another coach. But I'd rather win first. With Ole, I'm not sure we will. So I wouldn't extend, pure and simple.

Good post. I expect it to get a lot of irrational hate.

 

[clarkydaz]

The answer is an unequivocal feck no. Ole Gunnar Solskjaer is a serial loser and out of his depth to paraphrase a Scottish pundit.

I'll start by saying that it's bizarre for fans to demand world class defenders, midfielders and attackers but somehow be content with a mediocre Norwegian coach whose main qualification for the job is being a former player.

Can anyone actually kick back against this?

 

[Grey Rider]

The answer is an unequivocal feck no. Ole Gunnar Solskjaer is a serial loser and out of his depth to paraphrase a Scottish pundit.

I'll start by saying that it's bizarre for fans to demand world class defenders, midfielders and attackers but somehow be content with a mediocre Norwegian coach whose main qualification for the job is being a former player.

Myth: Give him time, even SAF and Klopp took a while to get it right.

Reality: Both SAF and Klopp had winning CV's and pedigree in spades. Ole has none of the pedigree required to manage the biggest club in the land.

Fergie won three league titles in Scotland with a team not named Celtic or Rangers, won a European cup winners cup against Real Madrid and a European supercup. Yes he didn't win right away at United, but he earned himself time. Klopp broke the Bayern hegemony in Germany, won 2 Bundesliga's on the bounce and a Pokal, drove his team to the CL final with some heavy metal football.

What does Ole stand for? What are the patterns of play he's iinstilling in the team. Expecting Ole to get it right at the highest level it's like expecting McFred to become Xaviesta if you give them time: it ain't going to happen.

Myth: All this chopping and changing is bad for the club

Reality: Not necessarily. Big clubs chop and change all the time. Chelsea has gone to 3 CL finals, and every single time it's been with a manager that did not start the season (Grant, Di Matteo, Tuchel). Bayern Munich won last year after geting rid of a mediocre Kovac. They changed coach again (in fact 7 or 8 clubs are starting with new managers in Germany and 6 or 7 in Italy) and I suspect they'll be super competitive again.

We've been sold this massive industrial scale overhaul that OGS is undertaking to turn around Manchester United, and on a longer timeframe than the Chinese take to build a megacity for million of inhabitants. I know English people are married to tradition and move slow, but it's a football club ffs, don't overcomplicate it. Get the right coach and the right players and 9 times out of 10 it will work jus fine. Sometimes you don't even need 5 years for it to happen.

Myth: We're definitely moving forward, there is clear progress.

Progress from what? We've gotten 66 points, 66 points and 74 points with Ole in charge. 74 points wouldn't get you a top 4 in a season when all the big 6 are having a good season.

2nd place is not progress when Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea had an off year. Tuchel came in when they were 9th and they made top 4 and won the CL... that's progress. I expect United to fight for Top 4 next season, not titles unfortunaely. Which suits Glazers fine btw.

Myth: But the transfer spending at least has been good. AWB, Maguire, Van de Beek, Amad, Telles, Dan James, Fernandes have all been great.

Reality: It's a mixed bag. Ole didn't trust the bench against a second rate Spanish team in a European final. Between Amad, Dan James, Telles, Van de Beek he didn't have it in him to bring them before the 116th minue when the starting 11 were running on fumes. Individually Maguire and AWB are good players, but is our defense fixed? I would not think so. Why spunk on Van Der Beek when the priority is a CDM?

It's not all doom and gloom obviously. He's a good influence on the dressing room, he stabilized the club, he stands for United values of youth, he's overssen the emergence of Greenwood, the resurgence of Shaw, the transfer of Bruno Fernandes and Cavani. He's a United legend, and I'd rather win with him rather than another coach. But I'd rather win first. With Ole, I'm not sure we will. So I wouldn't extend, pure and simple.

Very eloquently put. Exactly how I feel.

 

[Dookingham United]

The answer is an unequivocal feck no. Ole Gunnar Solskjaer is a serial loser and out of his depth to paraphrase a Scottish pundit.

I'll start by saying that it's bizarre for fans to demand world class defenders, midfielders and attackers but somehow be content with a mediocre Norwegian coach whose main qualification for the job is being a former player.

Myth: Give him time, even SAF and Klopp took a while to get it right.

Reality: Both SAF and Klopp had winning CV's and pedigree in spades. Ole has none of the pedigree required to manage the biggest club in the land.

Fergie won three league titles in Scotland with a team not named Celtic or Rangers, won a European cup winners cup against Real Madrid and a European supercup. Yes he didn't win right away at United, but he earned himself time. Klopp broke the Bayern hegemony in Germany, won 2 Bundesliga's on the bounce and a Pokal, drove his team to the CL final with some heavy metal football.

What does Ole stand for? What are the patterns of play he's iinstilling in the team. Expecting Ole to get it right at the highest level it's like expecting McFred to become Xaviesta if you give them time: it ain't going to happen.

Myth: All this chopping and changing is bad for the club

Reality: Not necessarily. Big clubs chop and change all the time. Chelsea has gone to 3 CL finals, and every single time it's been with a manager that did not start the season (Grant, Di Matteo, Tuchel). Bayern Munich won last year after geting rid of a mediocre Kovac. They changed coach again (in fact 7 or 8 clubs are starting with new managers in Germany and 6 or 7 in Italy) and I suspect they'll be super competitive again.

We've been sold this massive industrial scale overhaul that OGS is undertaking to turn around Manchester United, and on a longer timeframe than the Chinese take to build a megacity for million of inhabitants. I know English people are married to tradition and move slow, but it's a football club ffs, don't overcomplicate it. Get the right coach and the right players and 9 times out of 10 it will work jus fine. Sometimes you don't even need 5 years for it to happen.

Myth: We're definitely moving forward, there is clear progress.

Progress from what? We've gotten 66 points, 66 points and 74 points with Ole in charge. 74 points wouldn't get you a top 4 in a season when all the big 6 are having a good season.

2nd place is not progress when Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea had an off year. Tuchel came in when they were 9th and they made top 4 and won the CL... that's progress. I expect United to fight for Top 4 next season, not titles unfortunaely. Which suits Glazers fine btw.

Myth: But the transfer spending at least has been good. AWB, Maguire, Van de Beek, Amad, Telles, Dan James, Fernandes have all been great.

Reality: It's a mixed bag. Ole didn't trust the bench against a second rate Spanish team in a European final. Between Amad, Dan James, Telles, Van de Beek he didn't have it in him to bring them before the 116th minue when the starting 11 were running on fumes. Individually Maguire and AWB are good players, but is our defense fixed? I would not think so. Why spunk on Van Der Beek when the priority is a CDM?

It's not all doom and gloom obviously. He's a good influence on the dressing room, he stabilized the club, he stands for United values of youth, he's overssen the emergence of Greenwood, the resurgence of Shaw, the transfer of Bruno Fernandes and Cavani. He's a United legend, and I'd rather win with him rather than another coach. But I'd rather win first. With Ole, I'm not sure we will. So I wouldn't extend, pure and simple.

I absolutely agree.
I also think that he is showing himself to be close minded if he is in charge of the coaching staff. He has no experience, so he should surround himself with the best to maximize the chances of success.
He has beside and behind him a bunch of ex players and coaches (defensive) that have proven over the course of his entire tenure that they are just collecting a pay cheque.

What he (and a whole lot more of his fellow staff) deserves is the sack from a team like Man Utd. No other team would permit this.

He should not get a contract unless next year he
1. Wins a substantial trophy
2. Challenges for a title until the end of the season
3. Shows that he can adapt to the game in front of him
4. Prove that he can use a squad of players

These are going to be incredibly difficult to achieve but that's the job. And he has only made it harder on himself.
But because we are an exceptionally badly run club that means a new contract is incoming!
We need the fans back so that they know every game how we feel. Its been too easy for them to just plod along this year.

 

[RUCK4444]

Christ, you know you're scraping the barrel when you start using goals scored as indicators of improvement. Why are we the only club in world football that does progress in baby steps? How do Madrid, Juventus and Bayern deal with underperforming managers and consecutive trophyless seasons? How did Flick win the treble after Kovac stank the place up? Why does Tuchel come in and win the Champions League in 6 months with the same team Lampard had? And I'm not buying that Chelsea's squad is vastly superior in quality to us.

If you know our fan base a large part of whether the manager is deemed suitable boils down to the entertainment aspect, goals scored a fair indicator for how attacking we are as a team.

It’s also a fair indicator for how well coached we are in an attacking sense.

Pretty obvious really bud.

 

[Moriarty]

Can anyone actually kick back against this?

Tough to do.

 

[RUCK4444]

What Tuchel has proved is that a manager can impact a teams game in a short period of time without having to buy a whole new XI.

So saying it's impossible or unrealistic to ask Ole to implement a style in just 2 and a half years and without having changed 80% of the starting XI just got out of the window.

People used to mention Klopp as an example, how he didn't won anything until he did. I mean going by that next season we should be getting 99 points and winning the UCL. Hopefully we do it or some posters here are going to look real silly about the comparison.

Bottom line is Ole is not a revolutionary coach, we are now competing against Pep, Klopp and Tuchel three of the best managers in the world, and yet we have Ole who is not in any way a master mind, famous for implementing a particular style.

We all know City's game is about possession, Liverpool's game is about attacking fullbacks, Chelsea's game is about being solid as feck in the back. What is our game about? Give it to Bruno and hope for the best?

Ole's only top class attribute is man management, we need way more than that.

Tuchel didn’t need a rebuild because they spent hundreds of millions the window before he arrived, on top of the good core of players Lampard had.

He’s done well, I’m not saying otherwise, but compare that with Ole and where the club and playing staff were when he took over... completely night and day.

Ole had a bloated squad of players which required massive surgery, we were devoid of any confidence (courtesy of Mourinho / another supposedly great manager.)
It’s taken multiple windows to get rid of the deadwood and try to build a team who can compete.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Tuchel didn’t need a rebuild because they spent hundreds of millions the window before he arrived, on top of the good core of players Lampard had.

He’s done well, I’m not saying otherwise, but compare that with Ole and where the club and playing staff were when he took over... completely night and day.

Ole had a bloated squad of players which required massive surgery, we were devoid of any confidence (courtesy of Mourinho / another supposedly great manager.)
It’s taken multiple windows to get rid of the deadwood and try to build a team who can compete.

Chelsea had a transfer ban and we have actually spent more than them over the last two windows.

 

[RUCK4444]

Chelsea had a transfer ban and we have actually spent more than them over the last two windows.

Which they more than made up for bringing in half of Germany before his arrival, is my point.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Which they more than made up for bringing in half of Germany before his arrival, is my point.

They did it one window, Ole did it in two, same thing?

 

[Danillaco]

The answer is an unequivocal feck no. Ole Gunnar Solskjaer is a serial loser and out of his depth to paraphrase a Scottish pundit.

I'll start by saying that it's bizarre for fans to demand world class defenders, midfielders and attackers but somehow be content with a mediocre Norwegian coach whose main qualification for the job is being a former player.

Myth: Give him time, even SAF and Klopp took a while to get it right.

Reality: Both SAF and Klopp had winning CV's and pedigree in spades. Ole has none of the pedigree required to manage the biggest club in the land.

Fergie won three league titles in Scotland with a team not named Celtic or Rangers, won a European cup winners cup against Real Madrid and a European supercup. Yes he didn't win right away at United, but he earned himself time. Klopp broke the Bayern hegemony in Germany, won 2 Bundesliga's on the bounce and a Pokal, drove his team to the CL final with some heavy metal football.

What does Ole stand for? What are the patterns of play he's iinstilling in the team. Expecting Ole to get it right at the highest level it's like expecting McFred to become Xaviesta if you give them time: it ain't going to happen.

Myth: All this chopping and changing is bad for the club

Reality: Not necessarily. Big clubs chop and change all the time. Chelsea has gone to 3 CL finals, and every single time it's been with a manager that did not start the season (Grant, Di Matteo, Tuchel). Bayern Munich won last year after geting rid of a mediocre Kovac. They changed coach again (in fact 7 or 8 clubs are starting with new managers in Germany and 6 or 7 in Italy) and I suspect they'll be super competitive again.

We've been sold this massive industrial scale overhaul that OGS is undertaking to turn around Manchester United, and on a longer timeframe than the Chinese take to build a megacity for million of inhabitants. I know English people are married to tradition and move slow, but it's a football club ffs, don't overcomplicate it. Get the right coach and the right players and 9 times out of 10 it will work jus fine. Sometimes you don't even need 5 years for it to happen.

Myth: We're definitely moving forward, there is clear progress.

Progress from what? We've gotten 66 points, 66 points and 74 points with Ole in charge. 74 points wouldn't get you a top 4 in a season when all the big 6 are having a good season.

2nd place is not progress when Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea had an off year. Tuchel came in when they were 9th and they made top 4 and won the CL... that's progress. I expect United to fight for Top 4 next season, not titles unfortunaely. Which suits Glazers fine btw.

Myth: But the transfer spending at least has been good. AWB, Maguire, Van de Beek, Amad, Telles, Dan James, Fernandes have all been great.

Reality: It's a mixed bag. Ole didn't trust the bench against a second rate Spanish team in a European final. Between Amad, Dan James, Telles, Van de Beek he didn't have it in him to bring them before the 116th minue when the starting 11 were running on fumes. Individually Maguire and AWB are good players, but is our defense fixed? I would not think so. Why spunk on Van Der Beek when the priority is a CDM?

It's not all doom and gloom obviously. He's a good influence on the dressing room, he stabilized the club, he stands for United values of youth, he's overssen the emergence of Greenwood, the resurgence of Shaw, the transfer of Bruno Fernandes and Cavani. He's a United legend, and I'd rather win with him rather than another coach. But I'd rather win first. With Ole, I'm not sure we will. So I wouldn't extend, pure and simple.

This is a quality post. Well done.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Tuchel didn’t need a rebuild because they spent hundreds of millions the window before he arrived, on top of the good core of players Lampard had.

He’s done well, I’m not saying otherwise, but compare that with Ole and where the club and playing staff were when he took over... completely night and day.

Ole had a bloated squad of players which required massive surgery, we were devoid of any confidence (courtesy of Mourinho / another supposedly great manager.)
It’s taken multiple windows to get rid of the deadwood and try to build a team who can compete.

Don't compare when Ole took the team, compare today. Do you think Chelsea has a vastly superior squad than us? I think we are pretty even.

 

[RUCK4444]

Don't compare when Ole took the team, compare today. Do you think Chelsea has a vastly superior squad than us? I think we are pretty even.

How can we not compare the period in which they took over? I mean that’s where we are at with Tuchel now.

He’s done great to win the CL, but his starting point with the respective squads is night and day.

If we compare today then Ole has been here longer and finished comfortably 2nd in the league, ahead of Tuchel’s Chelsea.

I mean, to be clear I wasn’t even comparing these managers, I merely pointed out that Tuchel winning the CL doesn’t prove every negative opinion of Ole to be correct. The same way it doesn’t guarantee that Tuchel is better than Pep.

 

[SAFMUTD]

How can we not compare the period in which they took over? I mean that’s where we are at with Tuchel now.

He’s done great to win the CL, but his starting point with the respective squads is night and day.

If we compare today then Ole has been here longer and finished comfortably 2nd in the league, ahead of Tuchel’s Chelsea.

I mean, to be clear I wasn’t even comparing these managers, I merely pointed out that Tuchel winning the CL doesn’t prove every negative opinion of Ole to be correct. The same way it doesn’t guarantee that Tuchel is better than Pep.

You didn't answer my question, do you think Chelsea squad is vastly superior to ours? Or are we around the same quality? Name by name that Chelsea squad is nothing impressive. They look great as a whole that's merit on Tuchel and puts into perspective what "could had been" if we were managed by a coach like Tuchel.

I mean we look light years away from being UCL Champions and Chelsea did too before Tuchel took over 5 months ago, which proves is not about time but about proper coaching.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

The answer is an unequivocal feck no. Ole Gunnar Solskjaer is a serial loser and out of his depth to paraphrase a Scottish pundit.

I'll start by saying that it's bizarre for fans to demand world class defenders, midfielders and attackers but somehow be content with a mediocre Norwegian coach whose main qualification for the job is being a former player.

Myth: Give him time, even SAF and Klopp took a while to get it right.

Reality: Both SAF and Klopp had winning CV's and pedigree in spades. Ole has none of the pedigree required to manage the biggest club in the land.

Fergie won three league titles in Scotland with a team not named Celtic or Rangers, won a European cup winners cup against Real Madrid and a European supercup. Yes he didn't win right away at United, but he earned himself time. Klopp broke the Bayern hegemony in Germany, won 2 Bundesliga's on the bounce and a Pokal, drove his team to the CL final with some heavy metal football.

What does Ole stand for? What are the patterns of play he's iinstilling in the team. Expecting Ole to get it right at the highest level it's like expecting McFred to become Xaviesta if you give them time: it ain't going to happen.

Myth: All this chopping and changing is bad for the club

Reality: Not necessarily. Big clubs chop and change all the time. Chelsea has gone to 3 CL finals, and every single time it's been with a manager that did not start the season (Grant, Di Matteo, Tuchel). Bayern Munich won last year after geting rid of a mediocre Kovac. They changed coach again (in fact 7 or 8 clubs are starting with new managers in Germany and 6 or 7 in Italy) and I suspect they'll be super competitive again.

We've been sold this massive industrial scale overhaul that OGS is undertaking to turn around Manchester United, and on a longer timeframe than the Chinese take to build a megacity for million of inhabitants. I know English people are married to tradition and move slow, but it's a football club ffs, don't overcomplicate it. Get the right coach and the right players and 9 times out of 10 it will work jus fine. Sometimes you don't even need 5 years for it to happen.

Myth: We're definitely moving forward, there is clear progress.

Progress from what? We've gotten 66 points, 66 points and 74 points with Ole in charge. 74 points wouldn't get you a top 4 in a season when all the big 6 are having a good season.

2nd place is not progress when Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea had an off year. Tuchel came in when they were 9th and they made top 4 and won the CL... that's progress. I expect United to fight for Top 4 next season, not titles unfortunaely. Which suits Glazers fine btw.

Myth: But the transfer spending at least has been good. AWB, Maguire, Van de Beek, Amad, Telles, Dan James, Fernandes have all been great.

Reality: It's a mixed bag. Ole didn't trust the bench against a second rate Spanish team in a European final. Between Amad, Dan James, Telles, Van de Beek he didn't have it in him to bring them before the 116th minue when the starting 11 were running on fumes. Individually Maguire and AWB are good players, but is our defense fixed? I would not think so. Why spunk on Van Der Beek when the priority is a CDM?

It's not all doom and gloom obviously. He's a good influence on the dressing room, he stabilized the club, he stands for United values of youth, he's overssen the emergence of Greenwood, the resurgence of Shaw, the transfer of Bruno Fernandes and Cavani. He's a United legend, and I'd rather win with him rather than another coach. But I'd rather win first. With Ole, I'm not sure we will. So I wouldn't extend, pure and simple.

Amen.

 

[PoTMS]

If you know our fan base a large part of whether the manager is deemed suitable boils down to the entertainment aspect, goals scored a fair indicator for how attacking we are as a team.

It’s also a fair indicator for how well coached we are in an attacking sense.

Pretty obvious really bud.

I like how you tried to sound patronising and ended up just sounding stupid. So you're telling me if that Southampton guy didn't get sent off in the first minute and we won that game against them 1-0 instead of 9-0, we'd have regressed in an attacking sense this season and been seen as less entertaining or less well coached as we'd have have less goals. Our season is seen as worse with the removal of one outlier of a game. Surely you understand how stupid that is to use as a KPI.

 

[Suedesi]

Ole should have another year with some backing. He is still learning at this level and the club.

If we are still losing most of the time when it matters like this season while having a couple of good signings, we should be finding someone else at the end of next season.

I would like the club to address the issue in positions such as CB, RW and CM this summer and see how we do.

When did the manager job at the greatest club in the land become a paid internship aka a place for Ole to learn by doing?

Fergie used to say the manager is the most important person at the club, but somehow the current one is still learning?

 

[Womp]

How can we not compare the period in which they took over? I mean that’s where we are at with Tuchel now.

He’s done great to win the CL, but his starting point with the respective squads is night and day.

If we compare today then Ole has been here longer and finished comfortably 2nd in the league, ahead of Tuchel’s Chelsea.

I mean, to be clear I wasn’t even comparing these managers, I merely pointed out that Tuchel winning the CL doesn’t prove every negative opinion of Ole to be correct. The same way it doesn’t guarantee that Tuchel is better than Pep.

If we compare the points accumulated in the league since Tuchel joined Chelsea, he has outperformed Ole. They would be second to City, Liverpool third and us fourth. He has vastly outperformed Ole in Cup competitions, making the final of the FA cup and winning the CL and has out performed him on points in the league too, all whilst having a forward line that couldn't finish their dinner.

Ole is severely underperforming from every metric, but sure, let's keep going with this idea that a manager needs 50 fecking years to win a trophy and play some good football, because every manager who is successful has the perfect team and environment.

 

[joso157]

To those saying other top 6 teams had an off year and they'll be better than us....Were we not affected by the coronavirus more than those or at least an equal amount aswell? Or does that not fit your narrative?

Whose to say we don't comfortably hit 80+ points next year with a proper pre-season behind us. Those games prior to the first international break were a write off. That was our preseason after going in with one friendly under our belt.

Here's another one for everyone banging on about Tuchel suddenly being the messiah, I remember a couple of years ago Poch was the saviour, he's just gone into the star-studded PSG side and lost the title to Lille.

 

[The United]

When did the manager job at the greatest club in the land become a paid internship aka a place for Ole to learn by doing?

Fergie used to say the manager is the most important person at the club, but somehow the current one is still learning?

Let me rephrase it.

Learning to improve/develop.

 

[lefty_jakobz]

Well hes getting a three year extension/new deal, being rewarded for getting knocked out in the semis 4 times and failing to win the Europa, as long as he finishes 4th we wont be seeing the back of him.
Cant manage his squad properly and his game management is shocking, but hes a legend at the club so he should get more leeway?
He is to us what Lampard was to Chelsea. Big difference is Chelsea are run by football people we are run by idiots.

 

[Suedesi]

Let me rephrase it.

Learning to improve/develop.

Should we no get the finished article, someone who can deliver now? Someone pointed out that since Ole took over:

• Liverpool and Chelsea have won the Champions League
• Liverpool and City have won the Premier League
• City, Arsenal and Leicester have won the FA Cup
• Chelsea have also won the Europa League and
• City have cleaned up the EFL

I mean with our budget, financial muscle and squad/roster should we maybe expect something more than just a top 4 finish?

 

[smi11ie]

He will build a great squad, I am sure about that. His in-game management is a let down though. He will continue to look at a sheet of paper with Carrick while other managers are out there rallying the troops. He will continue to hang on to hope that his first 11 and starting formation will pull through right until the last moments of most matches. He will continue to trip over his words during post match interviews. Lastly he will continue to bottle the big games.

That being said maybe just keep him there and get top 4 every year then sack him when he fails to achieve that. I don't mind that as I do like an ex-player as manager.

I do think that his results will be worse next season especially away from home due to the return of fans. He does not do well under stress and the fans return will not help him.

 

[Suedesi]

Christ, you know you're scraping the barrel when you start using goals scored as indicators of improvement. Why are we the only club in world football that does progress in baby steps? How do Madrid, Juventus and Bayern deal with underperforming managers and consecutive trophyless seasons? How did Flick win the treble after Kovac stank the place up? Why does Tuchel come in and win the Champions League in 6 months with the same team Lampard had? And I'm not buying that Chelsea's squad is vastly superior in quality to us.

That's a weird one for sure. Especially as we scored 9 past Southampton and 6 past Leeds at OT. We scored 20% of goals in 2 matches. Take those outliers out and we're right in line with prior seasons (65 and 66 respectively).

 

[SirReginald]

To those saying other top 6 teams had an off year and they'll be better than us....Were we not affected by the coronavirus more than those or at least an equal amount aswell? Or does that not fit your narrative?

Whose to say we don't comfortably hit 80+ points next year with a proper pre-season behind us. Those games prior to the first international break were a write off. That was our preseason after going in with one friendly under our belt.

Here's another one for everyone banging on about Tuchel suddenly being the messiah, I remember a couple of years ago Poch was the saviour, he's just gone into the star-studded PSG side and lost the title to Lille.

The point was, everyone (even city) had low points compared to previous seasons. City won the league because they coped with the conditions better than everyone else. Don’t make excuses for your own team when everyone had problems.

Reality is what it is, you finished second and Ole fecked up a final for you because of mistakes an amateur makes. He IS NOT an amateur! He has 10 years of experience! He will never be a top manager. Yes he has done your club a lot of good but you’re looking at the end of the tunnel for as far as he can take you. In order to progress further you need a better backroom

Let me rephrase it.

Learning to improve/develop.

Again, if he still looks like an amateur after 10 years he is in the wrong job. Whether you like him as a person or not is irrelevant. He doesn’t have the skills required for a team of your stature. Other professions would have also reviewed his position by now.

 

[lefty_jakobz]

The point was, everyone (even city) had low points compared to previous seasons. City won the league because they coped with the conditions better than everyone else. Don’t make excuses for your own team when everyone had problems.

Reality is what it is, you finished second and Ole fecked up a final for you because of mistakes an amateur makes. He IS NOT an amateur! He has 10 years of experience! He will never be a top manager. Yes he has done your club a lot of good but you’re looking at the end of the tunnel for as far as he can take you. In order to progress further you need a better backroom



Again, if he still looks like an amateur after 10 years he is in the wrong job. Whether you like him as a person or not is irrelevant. He doesn’t have the skills required for a team of your stature. Other professions would have also reviewed his position by now.

You seem to forget who we are run by

We are sadly stuck with Ole until either the fans get sick of him or he fails to deliver the Arsenal trophy one year.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Should we no get the finished article, someone who can deliver now? Someone pointed out that since Ole took over:

• Liverpool and Chelsea have won the Champions League
• Liverpool and City have won the Premier League
• City, Arsenal and Leicester have won the FA Cup
• Chelsea have also won the Europa League and
• City have cleaned up the EFL

I mean with our budget, financial muscle and squad/roster should we maybe expect something more than just a top 4 finish?

Depressing stuff. But it doesn't matter. As long as long as Ole does the bare minimum well stick with him and watch the others rack up achievements

 

[Womp]

It's quite amusing tbf. Jose who was considered not good enough and rightly so, had won more trophies and achieved a higher points total, with a worse squad, in a harder league, in less time. The fact that he made the players unhappy etc. was used as a stick to beat him with - the same players who are now supposedly deemed not good enough to be relied on.

It's clear Jose is washed up and the game has passed him by, yet his last trophy was in 2017, Ole's was in 2013.

 

[francobaresi]

The answer is an unequivocal feck no. Ole Gunnar Solskjaer is a serial loser and out of his depth to paraphrase a Scottish pundit.

I'll start by saying that it's bizarre for fans to demand world class defenders, midfielders and attackers but somehow be content with a mediocre Norwegian coach whose main qualification for the job is being a former player.

Myth: Give him time, even SAF and Klopp took a while to get it right.

Reality: Both SAF and Klopp had winning CV's and pedigree in spades. Ole has none of the pedigree required to manage the biggest club in the land.

Fergie won three league titles in Scotland with a team not named Celtic or Rangers, won a European cup winners cup against Real Madrid and a European supercup. Yes he didn't win right away at United, but he earned himself time. Klopp broke the Bayern hegemony in Germany, won 2 Bundesliga's on the bounce and a Pokal, drove his team to the CL final with some heavy metal football.

What does Ole stand for? What are the patterns of play he's iinstilling in the team. Expecting Ole to get it right at the highest level it's like expecting McFred to become Xaviesta if you give them time: it ain't going to happen.

Myth: All this chopping and changing is bad for the club

Reality: Not necessarily. Big clubs chop and change all the time. Chelsea has gone to 3 CL finals, and every single time it's been with a manager that did not start the season (Grant, Di Matteo, Tuchel). Bayern Munich won last year after geting rid of a mediocre Kovac. They changed coach again (in fact 7 or 8 clubs are starting with new managers in Germany and 6 or 7 in Italy) and I suspect they'll be super competitive again.

We've been sold this massive industrial scale overhaul that OGS is undertaking to turn around Manchester United, and on a longer timeframe than the Chinese take to build a megacity for million of inhabitants. I know English people are married to tradition and move slow, but it's a football club ffs, don't overcomplicate it. Get the right coach and the right players and 9 times out of 10 it will work jus fine. Sometimes you don't even need 5 years for it to happen.

Myth: We're definitely moving forward, there is clear progress.

Progress from what? We've gotten 66 points, 66 points and 74 points with Ole in charge. 74 points wouldn't get you a top 4 in a season when all the big 6 are having a good season.

2nd place is not progress when Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea had an off year. Tuchel came in when they were 9th and they made top 4 and won the CL... that's progress. I expect United to fight for Top 4 next season, not titles unfortunaely. Which suits Glazers fine btw.

Myth: But the transfer spending at least has been good. AWB, Maguire, Van de Beek, Amad, Telles, Dan James, Fernandes have all been great.

Reality: It's a mixed bag. Ole didn't trust the bench against a second rate Spanish team in a European final. Between Amad, Dan James, Telles, Van de Beek he didn't have it in him to bring them before the 116th minue when the starting 11 were running on fumes. Individually Maguire and AWB are good players, but is our defense fixed? I would not think so. Why spunk on Van Der Beek when the priority is a CDM?

It's not all doom and gloom obviously. He's a good influence on the dressing room, he stabilized the club, he stands for United values of youth, he's overssen the emergence of Greenwood, the resurgence of Shaw, the transfer of Bruno Fernandes and Cavani. He's a United legend, and I'd rather win with him rather than another coach. But I'd rather win first. With Ole, I'm not sure we will. So I wouldn't extend, pure and simple.

Great post. Absolutely hit the nail on the head here. Agree 100%

 

[The United]

The point was, everyone (even city) had low points compared to previous seasons. City won the league because they coped with the conditions better than everyone else. Don’t make excuses for your own team when everyone had problems.

Reality is what it is, you finished second and Ole fecked up a final for you because of mistakes an amateur makes. He IS NOT an amateur! He has 10 years of experience! He will never be a top manager. Yes he has done your club a lot of good but you’re looking at the end of the tunnel for as far as he can take you. In order to progress further you need a better backroom



Again, if he still looks like an amateur after 10 years he is in the wrong job. Whether you like him as a person or not is irrelevant. He doesn’t have the skills required for a team of your stature. Other professions would have also reviewed his position by now.

I have not said I like him as a person and that is not why he is qualified.

What I think is that he will grow more into this role next season with some decent signings and it will be enough for us to see him as our long term solution. If he does not, then I hope the club has some plan. I don't have authority to claim I will be right or I have the power to give him a contract extension. That's just my opinion on this matter.

 

[Polar]

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer is a serial loser and out of his depth to

I’m fine with disagreements, but strongly against your tone against some of our own. Even soldiers in war are instructed to behave firm frank and friendly!

Thats why I’m also surprised some people claim it’s a quality post. Get a hold of yourself!

 

[RUCK4444]

You didn't answer my question, do you think Chelsea squad is vastly superior to ours? Or are we around the same quality? Name by name that Chelsea squad is nothing impressive. They look great as a whole that's merit on Tuchel and puts into perspective what "could had been" if we were managed by a coach like Tuchel.

I mean we look light years away from being UCL Champions and Chelsea did too before Tuchel took over 5 months ago, which proves is not about time but about proper coaching.

You haven’t adequately responded to any of my points either...

Their squad I would say are not that far away from ours offensively, their midfield is better without a doubt and their defence is better, keepers are similar level as Mendy has been decent.

What’s your point?

To be honest, and this is where our opinion on this competition change drastically, I don’t think our team is incapable of winning a CL, just as we’ve seen with the current Chelsea squad, cup competitions are not a guaranteed measure of a manager.
There are so many variables to knockout competition.

Answer me this, why do you hold so much stock in your current opinion based on a single CL win for Tuchel but don’t do the same for a strong second place finish in the hardest league in the world?

Before you say it nobody is happy with 2nd place and all teams have been effected by the same issues this season. Also as I’ve pointed out Tuchel has done well.
Go on, what’s the difference?

 

[RUCK4444]

I like how you tried to sound patronising and ended up just sounding stupid. So you're telling me if that Southampton guy didn't get sent off in the first minute and we won that game against them 1-0 instead of 9-0, we'd have regressed in an attacking sense this season and been seen as less entertaining or less well coached as we'd have have less goals. Our season is seen as worse with the removal of one outlier of a game. Surely you understand how stupid that is to use as a KPI.

Our average goal to game for a large part of the season was pushing 3 goals per game.

Not to mention in a season with Martial struggling to find his arse with both hands never mind the back of the net.

That rule you just created for the removal of one outlier game goes for every team. Stop calling people stupid because you think you know how KPI’s work and nobody else.

 

[SAFMUTD]

You haven’t adequately responded to any of my points either...

Their squad I would say are not that far away from ours offensively, their midfield is better without a doubt and their defence is better, keepers are similar level as Mend

What’s your point?

To be honest, and this is where our opinion on this competition change drastically, I don’t think our team is incapable of winning a CL, just as we’ve seen with the current Chelsea squad, cup competitions are not a guaranteed measure of a manager.
There are so many variables to knockout competition.

Answer me this, why do you hold so much stock in your current opinion based on a single CL win for Tuchel but don’t do the same for a strong second place finish in the hardest league in the world?

Before you say it nobody is happy with 2nd place and all teams have been effected by the same issues this season. Also as I’ve pointed out Tuchel has done well.
Go on, what’s the difference?

I think we have more talent on the offensive than Chelsea, weaker on midfield and similar on defense. If given the option to change squads with them I wouldn't. I think they look better because they're better coached, but not because they have more talent than us.

I hold so much value because it's and indicador on how much a manager can improve a team. I think we are under a similar situation than what Chelsea were under Lampard.

Also strong second place? I mean it may have been a comfortable top 4, but being a strong second place makes it sound as if were clearly the best second team in the league without a doubt, something like Liverpool's second place in 2018/19. At the end of the day we are a second place team closer to 7th than 1st, that's why I don't hold it in any particular high regard.

We are so far first place that being second hardly holds any value, as if Leipzig were claiming they're second in the bundesliga. Well good for you but we all know you're not even close to Bayern.

 

[RUCK4444]

If we compare the points accumulated in the league since Tuchel joined Chelsea, he has outperformed Ole. They would be second to City, Liverpool third and us fourth. He has vastly outperformed Ole in Cup competitions, making the final of the FA cup and winning the CL and has out performed him on points in the league too, all whilst having a forward line that couldn't finish their dinner.

Ole is severely underperforming from every metric, but sure, let's keep going with this idea that a manager needs 50 fecking years to win a trophy and play some good football, because every manager who is successful has the perfect team and environment.

How many times have we seen this exact sentence attributed to Ole, only for them to be disregarded by Ole-Out posters and then trotted out when the same applied to other managers.

If you hold so much weight to these anomalies and don’t factor in things such as ‘new manager bounce’ then why don’t you compare the the initial periods of both managers at the respective clubs. Ole went unbeaten for months didn’t he? Culminating in knocking a certain PSG out of the CL (a cup comp.)

It’s all relative and to be honest irrelevant because there is little balance to these arguments when they are used only when it suits the narrative.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Can anyone actually kick back against this?

Just you watch them!

 

[Womp]

How many times have we seen this exact sentence attributed to Ole, only for them to be disregarded by Ole-Out posters and then trotted out when the same applied to other managers.

If you hold so much weight to these anomalies and don’t factor in things such as ‘new manager bounce’ then why don’t you compare the the initial periods of both managers at the respective clubs. Ole went unbeaten for months didn’t he? Culminating in knocking a certain PSG out of the CL (a cup comp.)

It’s all relative and to be honest irrelevant because there is little balance to these arguments when they are used only when it suits the narrative.

Who is not accounting for those things? You were the one who made the point to compare them as a result of Ole's second placed finish. I just mentioned how stupid it was, because Tuchel has out performed him in every way.

Okay, let's compare it then, Tuchel got to a FA cup final and won the CL. On the way to said trophy, he beat the best team in Spain convincingly and beat arguably the best team on the planet. Ole's 'bounce' got us a few months of good results, followed by getting knocked out of the CL by a very underwhelming Barca side and finishing the season in very bad form, playing some dreadful football.

 

[RUCK4444]

I think we have more talent on the offensive than Chelsea, weaker on midfield and similar on defense. If given the option to change squads with them I wouldn't. I think they look better because they're better coached, but not because they have more talent than us.

I hold so much value because it's and indicador on how much a manager can improve a team. I think we are under a similar situation than what Chelsea were under Lampard.

Also strong second place? I mean it may have been a comfortable top 4, but being a strong second place makes it sound as if were clearly the best second team in the league without a doubt, something like Liverpool's second place in 2018/19. At the end of the day we are a second place team closer to 7th than 1st, that's why I don't hold it in any particular high regard.

We are so far first place that being second hardly holds any value, as if Leipzig were claiming they're second in the bundesliga. Well good for you but we all know you're not even close to Bayern.

On the bolded, so we sort of agree on the squad levels of each team.

What your not doing is applying the sound logic that a strong league place finish is a stronger indicator of a managers ability compared to a knockout competition where one of the two managers had a handful of ties against teams who are hugely underperforming this year (City aside, Pep fecked up and fair play to Tuchel.)

What your not also applying is the fact that the instant we secured top 4 but couldn’t go on to win the league we entirely shifted our focus to the EL final. We rested almost entire starting 11’s multiple times on top of losing our ONLY defensively sound CB (according to many here he’s also useless, but we saw the drop off in quality in his absence.)

So when I say a ‘strong 2nd place’ finish I’m factoring in the above and the judgement that we wouldn’t have rested all those players and effectively took our focus away from the league without the event of a cup final around the corner.

To me and many others, securing 2nd in this league is a more accurate sample experiment to view a managers ability than one who’s navigated the last couple of games within a cup comp with far fewer games, that’s just a basic observation, like a chemistry experiment, some tests are more accurate than others.
That doesn’t mean it’s easy to win the CL, far from it, but managers like Di Matteo and Hiddink can be used as a shortcut to demonstrate the fact it’s a more likely to happen than for those same managers to win a PL title (Rannieri the only anomaly there in living memory.)

Edit: Also Tuchel was VERY lucky to scrape a top four spot on the last day.
What would you be saying now if other teams didn’t secure top four for him and Rudiger got a red card and they lost the CL final? Small margins eh.

 

[RUCK4444]

Who is not accounting for those things? You were the one who made the point to compare them as a result of Ole's second placed finish. I just mentioned how stupid it was, because Tuchel has out performed him in every way.

Okay, let's compare it then, Tuchel got to a FA cup final and won the CL. On the way to said trophy, he beat the best team in Spain convincingly and beat arguably the best team on the planet. Ole's 'bounce' got us a few months of good results, followed by getting knocked out of the CL by a very underwhelming Barca side and finishing the season in very bad form, playing some dreadful football.

People have been using Tuchels CL win as a stick to beat Ole with, very predictably, which is why I pointed this out.

So going out to Barca after a massive unbeaten run after inheriting the most broken of squads, needing an entire rebuild is rubbish... but winning a few games in a cup competition where you have inherited a newly built, very talented, very expensive squad (close the level we are now after three years of rebuilding) and doing your best to lose out on a top for finish on the final day proves the latter is infinitely better than the former eh?

 

[KM]

I just don't think that any of the clubs we are competing against would have thought to extend his contract if their managers had this kind of season.