I wouldn't even give him next season.
Do we extend Ole's contract?
- Thread starter PoTMS
- Start date
Correct.
So if he gets a team of world class players, who he does not have to coach or manage he might succeed. The owners will be chuffed to bits that some of the focus has gone off them back onto the manager. They now have to spend big, but like most I am not holding my breath. They might get one big target then fob him off with cheaper options. Cannot see any top managers being available at that time anyway. The ones out there now will be snapped up. Think Ole will do what the owners want, Top 4. Who needs trophies, not the owners.
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We’re going to have to buy him a team capable of winning the title without him and hope his limitations don’t hold them back too much.
Jeez I’m being facetious... of course beating Tuchel doesn’t make him better, I’m pointing out that in the very same way Tuchel winning against a handful of teams in a cup competition doesn’t validate every Ole-outer’s opinions on Ole either.
It’s this one sided view to each point that’s really annoying.
It doesn’t but anyone who watches us play claiming progress is delusional. Do you honestly think we’re not the weakest team to finish second in memory?
We’re a very poor side without any direction or style of play who benefited hugely from misfortune of others. If we looked good but finished 12 points off the top but we could see what manager was trying to do and had confidence with some signings we could kick on then I’d be delighted.
Sorry but I totally disagree with everything you say in that post.
If sustained, season on season improvements in league position, goals scored, points gained and a complete season of being unbeaten away from home isnt black and white proof of improvement then nothing you find here on the caf will convince you otherwise.
Imo your letting the negatives of the season skew your opinion of the season in it’s entirety. It’s fine to be unhappy with the bad aspects of the season, believe it or not we all hurt when these things happen. It’s not some blind faith that allows us to totally ignore the bad results.
We dropped off badly once we secured top four and Maguire being injured exposed how poor we are in defence. We also had long sustained periods of wins, some great results, particularly away from home whilst for a long period being the top goal scorers in the league.
We had a very poor start with the lack of a pre-season and that’s after zero investment in our starting 11 and yet cruised to 2nd place.
This is why some like myself resort to sarcasm because there are undeniable improvements in SOME areas but many posters make it seem like we are going backwards which is absolute nonsense (for the reasons outlined above.)
The Glazers will renew Oles contract because he essentially, represents the extent of their ambition.
He is adequate. He is likely to get us a top 4 place next season (probably 4th). He will ensure that the Glazers cash flow is maintained which is what it is all about.
Ole will continue to bang on about Manchester United being all about ‘winning things’ and that players are at United to ‘win trophies’ whilst continuing to do neither.
He is adequate. He is likely to get us a top 4 place next season (probably 4th). He will ensure that the Glazers cash flow is maintained which is what it is all about.
Ole will continue to bang on about Manchester United being all about ‘winning things’ and that players are at United to ‘win trophies’ whilst continuing to do neither.
Christ, you know you're scraping the barrel when you start using goals scored as indicators of improvement. Why are we the only club in world football that does progress in baby steps? How do Madrid, Juventus and Bayern deal with underperforming managers and consecutive trophyless seasons? How did Flick win the treble after Kovac stank the place up? Why does Tuchel come in and win the Champions League in 6 months with the same team Lampard had? And I'm not buying that Chelsea's squad is vastly superior in quality to us.
My big worry is we have a season similar to this one next season and its deemed good enough, when it most certainly wouldn't be, far from it seeing as this one wasn't a success overall. But as long as Ole keeps getting top 4, I see no reason for the Glazers to bin him off.
Okay. And who do you suggest as a replacement?
Exactly how I feel. I recognise that progress has been made on many fronts, but I‘m struggling to forgive the catalogue of errors made by Ole around the final. We simply cannot afford to wait another few years to see if he can learn from his mistakes - at best he’s not learning quickly enough.
For once, there's quite a few options available. Pochettino, Zidane, Conte. You may argue your case either in favour of them managing us or against them and it's certainly not an argument I want to get into now but you can't deny there are options.
How do we play?
if there was progress surely this would be a piece of piss to define
if there was progress surely this would be a piece of piss to define
I'd also be waving goodbye this summer.
Couldn't the same be said of Ole if another manager came in? To give credit to Ole he has put together a talented squad but many doubt his talents of getting us to actually win things. His man management is first class but his in game management just isn't good enough coupled with the fact his coaching team is at best second rate it makes for a high probability that players like Garner, Diallo or Mejnri won't be turned into stars on his watch.
Ole has a year left on his contract rumoured to be extended to 3 anytime soon. For me that would be in line as another big mistake from the club. By all means give him another transfer window but I think the best for all concerned would be to wait until January or February before deciding to give him a contract that's going to define the next generation of players.
To echo a lot of the sentiments in the thread already I think it would be a mistake to extend his contract without waiting to see how he does next year.
I like what he's enabled us to do on the counter attack and thing he's been superb at implementing that style of play.
Teams are generally no longer allowing us to play like that and I feel Ole has no answer. He puts out the same team more or less every week and sometimes moments of quality get us over the line but we need to be creating way more chances than we do.
At the very least I expect a Manchester United manager to be willing to make decisive changes to personnel or shape to try something different to win a game when we're up against it. Ole doesn't appear to have this in him so I don't think we're going to get to where we want to be with him as manager despite the improvements he has made.
I like what he's enabled us to do on the counter attack and thing he's been superb at implementing that style of play.
Teams are generally no longer allowing us to play like that and I feel Ole has no answer. He puts out the same team more or less every week and sometimes moments of quality get us over the line but we need to be creating way more chances than we do.
At the very least I expect a Manchester United manager to be willing to make decisive changes to personnel or shape to try something different to win a game when we're up against it. Ole doesn't appear to have this in him so I don't think we're going to get to where we want to be with him as manager despite the improvements he has made.
Chelsea is a club with real football ambition. The owner is not fecking around with American sport franchise system where making money is priority, saddle the club with debts and taking hundreds of millions of dividend.
Ole is the yes man and will not rock the boat too much. It seems likely that Ole can get them top 4. This year Ole achieve the KPI of top 4 and hence going to be rewarded with new contract. That's good enough for the money men Glazers & Ed. As for Murtough, it seems that he only in charge of young players recruitment and have minimal says in first team matters.
That would never happen, right? Right?
I couldn't agree more. Ole is also a nice guy, if the extension isn't given to him now, I don't see him rocking the boat at all. There is no urgency here
Don't think a PL club would be in for him. The owners look for managers who can punch above their weight in the transfer market and Ole isn't that kind of manager. Maybe someone like QPR in the championship would go in for him having untold resources. Ole still is a big name in football and it might sway players to join but once in the PL then I couldn't see him lasting too long. Or if he doesn't want to move too far maybe Salford
Yes extend, the reason our squad has been in a state for so many years is because of us constantly chopping and changing managers with different ideals.
Keep Ole and let him finish the job he started. 2/3 more years and we should have been able to finish the clear out and have a squad that is more balanced.
If by then we've not been challenging for major honours every year then reconsider his position but we want to build the club back to a position to be competitive and win at the top level, that Will mean we have to get the squad club and recruitment into the right place which as we have seen (see last 8 years) takes time. Even more so if we keep changing direction.
I do think we should have a look at the coaching though. Might not need a change but definately is clear that our side seems to start slow and lack energy in our play. Sometimes we pick it right up and play some great stuff but we are very erratic when it comes to performance levels.
Some of that is the coaching but also the palying staff. Tired of all the interviews saying all the right things, players need to start showing up more. They're a good set of players but they all need to get to a minimum of being able to put more energy into performances from the off.
Transfer wise a bit more quality up top and at the back and I don't think we're that far off.
Keep Ole and let him finish the job he started. 2/3 more years and we should have been able to finish the clear out and have a squad that is more balanced.
If by then we've not been challenging for major honours every year then reconsider his position but we want to build the club back to a position to be competitive and win at the top level, that Will mean we have to get the squad club and recruitment into the right place which as we have seen (see last 8 years) takes time. Even more so if we keep changing direction.
I do think we should have a look at the coaching though. Might not need a change but definately is clear that our side seems to start slow and lack energy in our play. Sometimes we pick it right up and play some great stuff but we are very erratic when it comes to performance levels.
Some of that is the coaching but also the palying staff. Tired of all the interviews saying all the right things, players need to start showing up more. They're a good set of players but they all need to get to a minimum of being able to put more energy into performances from the off.
Transfer wise a bit more quality up top and at the back and I don't think we're that far off.
No premier league club would hire him, why would they? And no club anywhere would be paying Ole 8m a year to be their manager either that's for sure.
There's no way Ole will rock the boat with so little expectations put on him. He's just sitting in his little dingy with calm seas all around going with the flow. The owners are desperate to give him that extension for those very same reasons.
We're far too passive (including/especially supporters) as a club. Since SAF has retired Chelsea have been chopping and changing managers more than most but they've still won 2 CLs, 2PLs, 2 ELs, 2 FA cups and a league cup. To be successful you have to be ruthless. We find a manager like Pep or Klopp then we start talking about long term contracts but not for every manager that happens to be lucky enough to manage us and especially not for a manager that hasn't won anything in 8 years. Nice romantic fairytale for some with Ole managing us but that's all it is and the sooner we get back to reality the better for everyone.
I mean, I think it would be a mistake to extend it right now. Let's wait and see what happens next season and then extend it if we reach our goals and so on. No need to hurry now, he's probably not going to get snatched by another club anyway and no need to put us in the situation of a huge payment if things turns bad next season and we need to sack him mid season. Ole has done a good job this year, albeit sort of failing on the goal line, but he deserves to get next year on the back of a successful campaign.
I agree. Long term should be given when we finally found the right one. Not bandied around right off the bat
He deserves another 6 months but no extension. If in 6 months time we are languishing its time to pull the trigger. Enough of this giving 3 years to every manager and 300M rebuilds only to 'hope' they get it together. Man utd obsession with managers is not only unhealthy its also delusional.
So in essence, we need 5/6 years to judge if he's the right man?
To me he's probably taken us as far as he can, he's done brilliantly, I'm happy we stuck with him, but to me the next goal is unlikely to be achieved with him judging by what we've seen so far. If he left tomorrow he'd be leaving us in the good position. Obviously he'll get another season, and I can't argue with it because he did get us second. He probably deserves a shot at seeing what he can achieve with this group, with hopefully some more additions, and a less ridiculous schedule.
I just don't know how anyone can argue giving years and years and years to managers to make a change or imprint an identity, when we've seen it be done so quickly elsewhere. There's zero reason why that's not achievable here with the right managerial hire.
How this summer goes backing wise will tell us quite a bit, it usually does.
I just don't know how anyone can argue giving years and years and years to managers to make a change or imprint an identity, when we've seen it be done so quickly elsewhere. There's zero reason why that's not achievable here with the right managerial hire.
How this summer goes backing wise will tell us quite a bit, it usually does.
The biggest and arguably the 2nd biggest clubs in the world, that is Real and Barca, change their managers like paper napkins and they have been very successful doing it. To suggest it doesn't work is simply lying to yourselves.
The owners have found the perfect guy tbh. No wonder there is the temptation to extend him
No we need 5/6 Years to repair what was a completely broken club!
Just try and cast your mind back to when Mourinho got sacked. So much toxicity round the place. Awful imbalanced squad, club was in disarray.
We've now had back to back top four finishes. Academy seems to be producing again, most of the deadwood has been moved on and their is hope.
Are we the finished article? Absolutely not but we're on our way and with a good summer we'll be closer.
All I'm saying is stay the course, let's not change direction again because we lost a final.
It's possible to change manager and not change direction though, you just pick well with the next appointment and not someone who tears up everything thats been built and/or is the opposite of what we currently are. You say stay the course, how longs the course if improvement is very slow?
But why change if the direction is working?
We've made progress been playing better football, getting deep into competitions and reclaiming our identity of playing with exciting young players.
Yes we're still having the issue that the team can't be trusted to play well every week, but we're building.
Imo I say keep Ole, he's doing a good job
The direction is working, but how much longer do you put up with the slowly slowly approach if you're never actually winning anything? Ole is doing a good job, but there's still so much I remain worried and unsure about with us currently. Next season has to be make or break for him in my opinion.
As things stand right now, not thinking about possible summer changes, with how other teams are shaping up, I think you'd say logically it's more likely next season is worse than this one. Although I'd expect us to do much better in the CL, but that's obvious.
As things stand right now, not thinking about possible summer changes, with how other teams are shaping up, I think you'd say logically it's more likely next season is worse than this one. Although I'd expect us to do much better in the CL, but that's obvious.
People might not want to admit it but it's not that different than Ed Deadwood's lies at investor meetings about us playing attacking and exciting football.
It's typical corporate propaganda about doing something and then essentially doing the opposite but making people believe your lies. Political tactics in football work just as well because it's similarly tribal and there's always those who fail at rational thought.
The main thing the biggest supporters of OGS bring up is he symbolises “the United way” yet we play for 0-0s against our rivals & never win anything. It’s all a bit confusing.
What Tuchel has proved is that a manager can impact a teams game in a short period of time without having to buy a whole new XI.
So saying it's impossible or unrealistic to ask Ole to implement a style in just 2 and a half years and without having changed 80% of the starting XI just got out of the window.
People used to mention Klopp as an example, how he didn't won anything until he did. I mean going by that next season we should be getting 99 points and winning the UCL. Hopefully we do it or some posters here are going to look real silly about the comparison.
Bottom line is Ole is not a revolutionary coach, we are now competing against Pep, Klopp and Tuchel three of the best managers in the world, and yet we have Ole who is not in any way a master mind, famous for implementing a particular style.
We all know City's game is about possession, Liverpool's game is about attacking fullbacks, Chelsea's game is about being solid as feck in the back. What is our game about? Give it to Bruno and hope for the best?
Ole's only top class attribute is man management, we need way more than that.
You would hope if we get Sancho it will speed us up, but that will only happen if the ball gets to him quickly via midfield.
The answer is an unequivocal feck no. Ole Gunnar Solskjaer is a serial loser and out of his depth to paraphrase a Scottish pundit.
I'll start by saying that it's bizarre for fans to demand world class defenders, midfielders and attackers but somehow be content with a mediocre Norwegian coach whose main qualification for the job is being a former player.
Myth: Give him time, even SAF and Klopp took a while to get it right.
Reality: Both SAF and Klopp had winning CV's and pedigree in spades. Ole has none of the pedigree required to manage the biggest club in the land.
Fergie won three league titles in Scotland with a team not named Celtic or Rangers, won a European cup winners cup against Real Madrid and a European supercup. Yes he didn't win right away at United, but he earned himself time. Klopp broke the Bayern hegemony in Germany, won 2 Bundesliga's on the bounce and a Pokal, drove his team to the CL final with some heavy metal football.
What does Ole stand for? What are the patterns of play he's iinstilling in the team. Expecting Ole to get it right at the highest level it's like expecting McFred to become Xaviesta if you give them time: it ain't going to happen.
Myth: All this chopping and changing is bad for the club
Reality: Not necessarily. Big clubs chop and change all the time. Chelsea has gone to 3 CL finals, and every single time it's been with a manager that did not start the season (Grant, Di Matteo, Tuchel). Bayern Munich won last year after geting rid of a mediocre Kovac. They changed coach again (in fact 7 or 8 clubs are starting with new managers in Germany and 6 or 7 in Italy) and I suspect they'll be super competitive again.
We've been sold this massive industrial scale overhaul that OGS is undertaking to turn around Manchester United, and on a longer timeframe than the Chinese take to build a megacity for million of inhabitants. I know English people are married to tradition and move slow, but it's a football club ffs, don't overcomplicate it. Get the right coach and the right players and 9 times out of 10 it will work jus fine. Sometimes you don't even need 5 years for it to happen.
Myth: We're definitely moving forward, there is clear progress.
Progress from what? We've gotten 66 points, 66 points and 74 points with Ole in charge. 74 points wouldn't get you a top 4 in a season when all the big 6 are having a good season.
2nd place is not progress when Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea had an off year. Tuchel came in when they were 9th and they made top 4 and won the CL... that's progress. I expect United to fight for Top 4 next season, not titles unfortunaely. Which suits Glazers fine btw.
Myth: But the transfer spending at least has been good. AWB, Maguire, Van de Beek, Amad, Telles, Dan James, Fernandes have all been great.
Reality: It's a mixed bag. Ole didn't trust the bench against a second rate Spanish team in a European final. Between Amad, Dan James, Telles, Van de Beek he didn't have it in him to bring them before the 116th minue when the starting 11 were running on fumes. Individually Maguire and AWB are good players, but is our defense fixed? I would not think so. Why spunk on Van Der Beek when the priority is a CDM?
It's not all doom and gloom obviously. He's a good influence on the dressing room, he stabilized the club, he stands for United values of youth, he's overssen the emergence of Greenwood, the resurgence of Shaw, the transfer of Bruno Fernandes and Cavani. He's a United legend, and I'd rather win with him rather than another coach. But I'd rather win first. With Ole, I'm not sure we will. So I wouldn't extend, pure and simple.
I'll start by saying that it's bizarre for fans to demand world class defenders, midfielders and attackers but somehow be content with a mediocre Norwegian coach whose main qualification for the job is being a former player.
Myth: Give him time, even SAF and Klopp took a while to get it right.
Reality: Both SAF and Klopp had winning CV's and pedigree in spades. Ole has none of the pedigree required to manage the biggest club in the land.
Fergie won three league titles in Scotland with a team not named Celtic or Rangers, won a European cup winners cup against Real Madrid and a European supercup. Yes he didn't win right away at United, but he earned himself time. Klopp broke the Bayern hegemony in Germany, won 2 Bundesliga's on the bounce and a Pokal, drove his team to the CL final with some heavy metal football.
What does Ole stand for? What are the patterns of play he's iinstilling in the team. Expecting Ole to get it right at the highest level it's like expecting McFred to become Xaviesta if you give them time: it ain't going to happen.
Myth: All this chopping and changing is bad for the club
Reality: Not necessarily. Big clubs chop and change all the time. Chelsea has gone to 3 CL finals, and every single time it's been with a manager that did not start the season (Grant, Di Matteo, Tuchel). Bayern Munich won last year after geting rid of a mediocre Kovac. They changed coach again (in fact 7 or 8 clubs are starting with new managers in Germany and 6 or 7 in Italy) and I suspect they'll be super competitive again.
We've been sold this massive industrial scale overhaul that OGS is undertaking to turn around Manchester United, and on a longer timeframe than the Chinese take to build a megacity for million of inhabitants. I know English people are married to tradition and move slow, but it's a football club ffs, don't overcomplicate it. Get the right coach and the right players and 9 times out of 10 it will work jus fine. Sometimes you don't even need 5 years for it to happen.
Myth: We're definitely moving forward, there is clear progress.
Progress from what? We've gotten 66 points, 66 points and 74 points with Ole in charge. 74 points wouldn't get you a top 4 in a season when all the big 6 are having a good season.
2nd place is not progress when Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea had an off year. Tuchel came in when they were 9th and they made top 4 and won the CL... that's progress. I expect United to fight for Top 4 next season, not titles unfortunaely. Which suits Glazers fine btw.
Myth: But the transfer spending at least has been good. AWB, Maguire, Van de Beek, Amad, Telles, Dan James, Fernandes have all been great.
Reality: It's a mixed bag. Ole didn't trust the bench against a second rate Spanish team in a European final. Between Amad, Dan James, Telles, Van de Beek he didn't have it in him to bring them before the 116th minue when the starting 11 were running on fumes. Individually Maguire and AWB are good players, but is our defense fixed? I would not think so. Why spunk on Van Der Beek when the priority is a CDM?
It's not all doom and gloom obviously. He's a good influence on the dressing room, he stabilized the club, he stands for United values of youth, he's overssen the emergence of Greenwood, the resurgence of Shaw, the transfer of Bruno Fernandes and Cavani. He's a United legend, and I'd rather win with him rather than another coach. But I'd rather win first. With Ole, I'm not sure we will. So I wouldn't extend, pure and simple.