What's really weird is two managers have used him sparingly. So it could be something to do with him.
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Reality really is stranger than fiction.
Positioning is also important for a DM, not just pace...
He was not Pogba's replacement, he was second or third choice because Ole wanted Grealish. Unfortunately Donny struggled to make an impact in the attacking positions, and isnt much better playing deeper either. He doesn't pull the strings, he doesn't carry the ball, he is nothing like Pogba.
Clearly not as he didn’t play a single minute more when Pogba was injured either. I was just pointing out that at the time of the transfer that’s what it looked like he was for. An attacker who gets into the box and links things up but could go backwards and help out too. He’s either gone miles backwards since he came in, we’ve got terrible scouts, Ed foisted the transfer on Ole due to opportunism or Ole actually wanted him and didn’t know what to do with him. Any one of those reasons make the club look incompetent with everyone singing off a different hymn sheet
Yeah I remember Pogba and his agent screwing around at that time, and many people wanted Jacky boy to be his replacement. Personally I thought it was a waste to play him that deep though. Anyways, we could have simply signed Donny for his goals, as he looked like a decent second striker at times. I'm sure there's a player in there, but he does look like a system player.
I totally agree. Fascinating to see how he does at Palace all the same. They’ll probably play him as a 10 and he’ll hit a few goals and assists and then come back here and never play again. I just find it so hard to believe that we had absolutely no use or plan for him. Even just as a legitimate rotation option. It’s perplexing unless he’s just a really terrible footballer. I don’t believe that though. Holland international should at least be a serviceable professional.
Agreed 100%, a 35M player should at least be a solid squad option that can be used far more regularly, even as a preferred starting option if the regular starter is underperforming (example if Fernandes, Fred, Mctominay, Pogba are underperforming, then VdB is the one that goas ahead and starts), see Dalot & Telles who became a preferred options ahead of AWB & Shaw, Henderson is a capable to takeover the #1 spot if DDG's level drops, if 2 managers and 2 coaching staffs didn't trust VdB for 18 months, then a head from the scouting department needs to roll, Ole was rightly sacked, but it was due to the team's overall performances and the terrible results more than anything.
I had all of that when I posted what I posted. "Physicality", in all its different aspects, is the easiest thing to work on and improve as a pro. It doesn't compute to me that VDB is terrible at it. It makes him look like a truly lazy git. Moreover, the few times he actually played in the PL, did he give you this impression ? Not for me tbh.
I just think he isn't that good enough on the ball or is a player who truly excels in a specific settinng and role rather than simply saying he struggles with the mythical physicality of the PL
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Luckhurst mentions physical demands and rigour I think, not muscle. Didnt he say VDB in fact has put on the muscle?
I'm saying they are labelling an engine issue a strength issue. A poor engine would explain why he's invisible when he plays and struggles to influence the middle like a David Silva. People would understand that better than saying "needs to bulk up".
One of Ole’s biggest weaknesses was his loyalty to his first 11.
Rangnick has come in and has dropped /left out of the team at some stage Shaw /AWB / Maguire /Fred /Rashford /Bruno/Ronaldo.
This is something Ole would never have done and the common factor is VDB hasn’t got a look in under either manager. I do believe it is VDB just isn’t good enough to be a starter and doesn’t show enough in training.
I have my doubts he’ll be a regular at Palace if they see him as a Gallagher type player because he won’t be dropped.
Rangnick has come in and has dropped /left out of the team at some stage Shaw /AWB / Maguire /Fred /Rashford /Bruno/Ronaldo.
This is something Ole would never have done and the common factor is VDB hasn’t got a look in under either manager. I do believe it is VDB just isn’t good enough to be a starter and doesn’t show enough in training.
I have my doubts he’ll be a regular at Palace if they see him as a Gallagher type player because he won’t be dropped.
Imagine he ends up riding the bench for Crystal Palace too?! He will forever be known as Donny Van De Bench in England
It's up to Donny to prove himself now in the Crystal Palace Engine Room and shine he should be head and shoulders above anything they have including Gallagher. Nobody can hold his hand. It's sink or swim. He either proves himself in England or goes back to Holland or a physically easier League with his tail between his legs in the summer.
No more excuses for Donny.
The coaches at Carrington have concerns about Donny's physical suitability for the Premier League. Let's see who is right.
It's up to Donny to prove himself now in the Crystal Palace Engine Room and shine he should be head and shoulders above anything they have including Gallagher. Nobody can hold his hand. It's sink or swim. He either proves himself in England or goes back to Holland or a physically easier League with his tail between his legs in the summer.
No more excuses for Donny.
The coaches at Carrington have concerns about Donny's physical suitability for the Premier League. Let's see who is right.
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Got his pick of three clubs apparently. I hope for his sake he picks one abroad. Starting to remind me of Aquilani
Gallagher is a Chelsea youth product. Donny has played for Ajax in the Champions League semi-final. It's a no-brainer on paper who should be more successful.
Donny should be dominating and bossing it at Crystal Palace in every training session and match they have.. and be head and shoulders above anything they have including Gallagher. His quality should shine through if he's as good as everyone here says he is.. This weird fetish United fans have with Donny will be proven right or wrong the next few months. No hiding behind excuses anymore it's sink or swim time for Donny to fight hard and prove himself. How much does he want it?
That's unless the coaches and experts at Carrington are right and he just physically just can't hack it in the Premier League.. It's easier to ride on the coattails of the Ajax team when they are the best team in Holland and dominate most of the ball every match they play. And don't come under pressure like United do.
Donny should be dominating and bossing it at Crystal Palace in every training session and match they have.. and be head and shoulders above anything they have including Gallagher. His quality should shine through if he's as good as everyone here says he is.. This weird fetish United fans have with Donny will be proven right or wrong the next few months. No hiding behind excuses anymore it's sink or swim time for Donny to fight hard and prove himself. How much does he want it?
That's unless the coaches and experts at Carrington are right and he just physically just can't hack it in the Premier League.. It's easier to ride on the coattails of the Ajax team when they are the best team in Holland and dominate most of the ball every match they play. And don't come under pressure like United do.
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He's had some good moments whenever he's come on as a sub, he struggles to impose himself more whenever he's gotten a start. Could also be down to the quality of teammates, as he starts in cup games with other reserves.
surely better he stays in the PL so we can put all these theories to the test and see what he can do?
Really hard to guess what your opinion is of him.
He contributed to the Ajax team, he didn't get a free ride
Positioning has feck all to do with the leak saying he's struggling with physicality.
Exactly. Better to challenge himself and prove the coaches and experts at Carrington who say he can't physically hack it in the Premier League right or wrong, than not challenge himself at all and always thinking what if? He might be a revelation at Crystal Palace like Chelsea's Gallagher is. Or he could be a massive flop. It could really go either way and that's going to be exciting to watch as a sub-plot for the rest of the season when United are not playing. Because I will watch Palace games now when United are not playing.
If I was Donny and saw the coaches at Carrington saying I can't physically hack it in the Premier League I would want to prove them wrong and go to Crystal Palace. You have to have that inner belief to fight and succeed.
Does Donny have the stomach for the fight?! And to prove himself in the Premier League the next few months out of his comfort zone at an unglamorous club like Crystal Palace where I imagine the training ground and facilities are not as plush or fancy as Uniteds (or even Ajax's), and a small old stadium with fans on top of you demanding you perform. It's not quite sending Donny down to Millwall for a school of hard Knox to toughen the lad up with clobbers but it IS sink or swim time for Donny. And the Crystal Palace lads in training will be hard with him as they don't want him rocking up at Palace as a Johnny-come-lately in January and suddenly taking their starting spot.
It could be the making of the lad if he shows the right attitude and fights hard to prove himself away from Old Trafford. It's make or break time for Donny Van De Beeke.
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This should have happened in the summer. Alas, our management is a train wreck. But better late than never, I guess. Crystal Palace is the only sensible choice. He has to prove he can hack in the Premier League, not Serie A. Very curious to see how this goes.
Everton wants him, i think on loan. Send him now! He will learn a lot from lampard and will actually get some play time (i hope so at least). Anything is better than sitting on our bench, he isn’t being used for rotation
A poor engine? The stats disagree with you, massively. He had the most distance covered at Ajax and also is in the top of the United squad, the like 5 times he played more than 45 minutes for us
??
So why not just read the discussion. The starting point isn't even that far back.
I think sending him to Palace would be better as the toxicity at Everton at the moment is extremely high. At Palace you'd still get clapped off even if you're 2-0 down. Much better environment down there.
What a pointless signing and complete waste of money.
Hopefully he chooses Palace, there’s less chaos there.
I'm excited to see how he does at Palace or wherever he goes (if he is to leave) over next few days. Would be the best if it is a move to a Premier League club, 4 months is enough time for him to prove his worth.
fair point. Vieira isn’t a bad manager to work under either as a midfielder
Time to go to work Donny.
He's effectively been a glorified Manchester United season holder for the past few years riding the bench. Now with this loan move he has to play regular football and prove himself.
It's a challenge the lad seems to relish though. And obviously wants. We are all rooting for him.
Obviously I'll take all that back about Donny relishing the challenge etc if he chooses to go to Valencia or a club abroad as that would be shirking the challenge and running away... He needs to prove himself in the Premier League. Joining Valencia on loan or a non-PL club basically means he's definitely getting sold in the summer and there's no way back for Donny at United because playing well in La Liga doesn't answer the question if Donny can play in the Premier League. We need to see Donny go on loan to a Premier League club it's the only move that makes sense. And prove Ole, Rangnick and all the coaches at Carrington who say he can't hack it in the Premier League because he's not physical enough.
I'm looking forward to watching him play his first game for Palace. He could be a massive flop or a massive success (like Chelsea's Gallagher) in his loan spell. It's all or nothing sink or swim for Donny. And that makes it exciting as a sub-plot to the rest of the season as a Manchester United fan to follow Donny.
He's effectively been a glorified Manchester United season holder for the past few years riding the bench. Now with this loan move he has to play regular football and prove himself.
It's a challenge the lad seems to relish though. And obviously wants. We are all rooting for him.
Obviously I'll take all that back about Donny relishing the challenge etc if he chooses to go to Valencia or a club abroad as that would be shirking the challenge and running away... He needs to prove himself in the Premier League. Joining Valencia on loan or a non-PL club basically means he's definitely getting sold in the summer and there's no way back for Donny at United because playing well in La Liga doesn't answer the question if Donny can play in the Premier League. We need to see Donny go on loan to a Premier League club it's the only move that makes sense. And prove Ole, Rangnick and all the coaches at Carrington who say he can't hack it in the Premier League because he's not physical enough.
I'm looking forward to watching him play his first game for Palace. He could be a massive flop or a massive success (like Chelsea's Gallagher) in his loan spell. It's all or nothing sink or swim for Donny. And that makes it exciting as a sub-plot to the rest of the season as a Manchester United fan to follow Donny.
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Yeah, but Everton will presumably move to a 4-3-3 and his only competition for the two #8 spots is Doucoure, Davies and Iwobi so he fits perfectly as only Doucoure is genuinely good. At Palace they might be thinking about bringing him in to take over Gallagher's role in the summer when he goes back to Chelsea. Lampard will need him to succeed immediately.
Also, he's more likely to score and assist a flurry of goals at Everton without Gallagher bombing forward constantly and instead next to the more measured Doucoure, and he might need that to get into the Dutch squad as the alternative to Klassen, and if he can end the season with some production we might get a decent offer to claw back 30 of the 40M fee or whatever from Newcastle or a foreign side, and unless we bring in Ten Hag I'm not sure the next manager will see him as a great fit next to Bruno anyways.
Lack of talent/any specific role. His performances in deeper midfield positions never stood out as anything more than mediocre, while he was purchased on the back of a few seasons where he played more often as a 10 where we have our best player who has an impeccable injury record.... So... yeah. He's just not good enough imo. I thought there was a potential route to develop him as a deeper mid, but he goes hiding and just likes flick ons and doesn't take charge on the ball, which you can't do here.
Lampard is no different to ole and everton is a shambles and run badly like we are, if he has any brains he'd goto palace.
I bet father in law bergkamp put in a good word to viera and thats why palace want him.
I don’t. I desperately want to see him play. And if he does, I fancy him to prove a lot of people wrong. Maybe he doesn’t fit us because we aren’t a pass and move team like Ajax. We’re a break on the counter and get the ball to the forwards as fast as possible. My biggest issue is that when he has played he’s never stunk the place out like McFred have quite frequently. Yet he never got the next game, nor did he really get regular minutes as sub. It’s the most baffling thing ever.
As opposed to the definition of hiding - McTominay. Sure, he’s improved under Ralf but I’ve never seen a player hide more than Scott. He seems to permanently be marking the opposition player whenever one of his teammates is under pressure.
Totally agree. Now we have an even better squad but it’s mad that back then when Fred and McTominay were regularly having terrible games, Ole never turned to him. Not even just to rest them. Yet when we saw him play with Matic like against West Ham he looked really good. He could’ve come in to give Bruno a rest too. But instead Ole played all those players into the ground. Shocking really. I’ve never seen a player bought for so much, with his reputation yet never get played, not even against lesser sides. Even when he played great like against Watford and Leipzig. So strange and so sad. What a waste.
I’ve a strange feeling that we will pay a heavy price like missing out top 4 because of these many loan deals and primarily vdb one.
Hope I’m wrong
Hope I’m wrong
At some point, it probably became a "I don't want to give them the satisfaction" thing, and Ole did everything except as had been suggested by his critics.
im a big Fred fan. Nobody can do what Fred does. In Liverpools team he’d be a cult hero. We threw that dude into a non existent system and he still stands out as our hardest working player. Not a Utd player? Most of the big players have let us down when the chips are down, that little dude runs and runs. I hope more people catch on to the fact that Fred as McT aren’t the problem, they hold it down, they are even creative now. The rest of the team is underperforming though. Especially the fwds, they have no chemistry. I reckon Rashford is due a bit of a renaissance. He could still be be a filthy player.
I think he should go to CP.
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