Is it Trevor Hicks that said that? Well said.
e-petition to release the govt Hillsborough files
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
i have never really gone for conspiracy theories ,so when the familiies called for the real truth i thought they were just desprately sad people looking for a reason why their loved ones died and i thought it was all down to horrendous tragic mistakes ,but now the following cover-up and blame shifting by those in charge shows those families were justified all along.
Ex #Sun editor Kelvin Mackenzie finally admits "it would have far more accurate had I written the headline The Lies rather than The Truth"
From twitter
From twitter
Is there anything Kelvin Mackenzie could say now after so long?
Kelvin Mackenzie can feck off.
I hope he never gets near our screens again.
I would say he should be banned from papers too but if he wants to continue writing a column for The Sun, he can go ahead. No one of any substance will be reading it.
I hope he never gets near our screens again.
I would say he should be banned from papers too but if he wants to continue writing a column for The Sun, he can go ahead. No one of any substance will be reading it.
Kelvin MacKenzie - "It has taken more than two decades, 400,000 documents and a two-year inquiry to discover to my horror that it would have far more accurate had I written the headline The Lies rather than The Truth. I published in good faith and I am sorry that it was so wrong.
Much as I abhor what Mackenzie did, I don't know what he can do now except apologise. It might be 20 years too late, but it's right he did it.
Paul Kelso @pkelso
Three family members fainted when they heard that some of the dead might have been saved
Three family members fainted when they heard that some of the dead might have been saved
Never mind arguments about 'the freedom of the press', newspapers are simply not accountable enough. Their whole ethos is deadlines, sales-figures and scoops; there's little room, or care, for truth in such an atmosphere.
No, not at all. He's been so dismissive of the Hillsborough support groups who were searching for the truth, completely unhelpful and refused to acknowledge any chance he was wrong, so it's far too late for him to do so now. Plus the article was so deliberately offensive in the first place.
And its probably worse now than then.
For the rest, someone should go to prison for the lies and the cover up, if the chief constable knew, get him in front of a jury, ultimately , he got the money and pension for the big decisions, he should take the fall for them too.
Journo (think it was Brian Reade): What %age of the report was new to you?
Trevor Hicks: "About 40 or 50%." Then talked about how they always felt the ambulance service had done a great job but was shocked to find that they had altered their statements like the police had done. Obviously finding out that 41 of the dead could've been saved was a huge shock as well.
Trevor Hicks: "About 40 or 50%." Then talked about how they always felt the ambulance service had done a great job but was shocked to find that they had altered their statements like the police had done. Obviously finding out that 41 of the dead could've been saved was a huge shock as well.
Breaking News
Speaking on the BBC News Channel, David Crompton, current chief constable of South Yorkshire Police, "profoundly apologises" to both the families of the 96 Hillsborough victims and Liverpool fans in general.
Speaking on the BBC News Channel, David Crompton, current chief constable of South Yorkshire Police, "profoundly apologises" to both the families of the 96 Hillsborough victims and Liverpool fans in general.
Such a shame.
Such a real shame.
Such a real shame.
Not the time or the place, mate. Don't give them the attention they want.
Kelvin MacKenzie doesn't really matter. He printed lies but everyone knew they were such long before his ridiculously belated admission and apology.
The police cover up is where the major scandal lies. Again, most of us either had our suspicions or firm beliefs, but now it's laid before us so transparently, it's shocking and disturbing.
The police cover up is where the major scandal lies. Again, most of us either had our suspicions or firm beliefs, but now it's laid before us so transparently, it's shocking and disturbing.
Apologies AFTER the fact are meaningless.
They have no choice now the information is out there in the public domain, and if it had been kept away from prying eyes, there is not a chance in hell any of them would come forth out of sense of justice and admit it.
Anyone with half a brain could have seen that what the sun reported was absolute nonsense, and vile nonsense at that. It read more like the actions of cartoon villains than ordinary, working-class football fans.
McKenzie was intelligent enough to realise that himself. He knew rightly, but it didn't matter to him as long as the sensationalist story sold a few papers. He just didn't think it would become as iconic as it has done and discredit him in the way that it has. When McKenzie and the sun decided that day to smear the Liverpool fans, as well as the city of Liverpool and football fans as a whole, the only ones who got 'smeared' were the scum at the suns newspaper.
The report doesn't surprise me though, not one bit. You won't find a person in the north of Ireland who would be surprised either. Everyone knows what that witch Thatcher and her government were like. The british government smeared the innocent people after bloody sunday, and gave their murderers freedom from prosecution to go with their medals, pensions and parades. They've done similar many times in Ireland and they done the same with Hillsborough.
A while back I had a read at the Hillsborough website and was looking at survivors reports and information about the day and all that. I'm not an emotional person by any means and I have to say I found the whole thing very moving. People like Margeret Aspinall and Anne Williams, and many others like them, have been fighting for this day for twenty three years, and I'm really happy that their loved ones have been vindicated. Hopefully now that they have the truth, the real truth, they can get the justice that their loved ones deserve.
McKenzie was intelligent enough to realise that himself. He knew rightly, but it didn't matter to him as long as the sensationalist story sold a few papers. He just didn't think it would become as iconic as it has done and discredit him in the way that it has. When McKenzie and the sun decided that day to smear the Liverpool fans, as well as the city of Liverpool and football fans as a whole, the only ones who got 'smeared' were the scum at the suns newspaper.
The report doesn't surprise me though, not one bit. You won't find a person in the north of Ireland who would be surprised either. Everyone knows what that witch Thatcher and her government were like. The british government smeared the innocent people after bloody sunday, and gave their murderers freedom from prosecution to go with their medals, pensions and parades. They've done similar many times in Ireland and they done the same with Hillsborough.
A while back I had a read at the Hillsborough website and was looking at survivors reports and information about the day and all that. I'm not an emotional person by any means and I have to say I found the whole thing very moving. People like Margeret Aspinall and Anne Williams, and many others like them, have been fighting for this day for twenty three years, and I'm really happy that their loved ones have been vindicated. Hopefully now that they have the truth, the real truth, they can get the justice that their loved ones deserve.
http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/docs/NGN000000070001.pdf
This is the transcript from the above link. It is a memo to the news editor of the London Standard. Horrific stuff contained within- be warned.
This is the transcript from the above link. It is a memo to the news editor of the London Standard. Horrific stuff contained within- be warned.
Memo to news editor. London standard re – allegations over behaviour of liverpool fans at the hillsborough semi final. Story filed to you on april 18th.
The original storyfiled by us on the morning of april 18th led on angry police hitting out at liverpool fans who they said had hampered rescue attempts at the semi-final (our story catchlined ‘slam’).
During the afternoon of the 18th we received further information which was filed to you as the day progressed (catchlined pocket and patnick) adding allegations of fans stealing propert of the dead and later quotes from a leading mp backing up many of the police claims.
All the allegations in the stories we filed were made unsolicited by ranking officers in the south yorkshire force to three different experienced senior journalists who are partners in this agency. All four officers involved had been on duty at Hillsborough.
The first claims of bad behaviour came on the night of Saturday april 15th a few hours after the tragedy when one repporter met by chance a senior police officer he has known for many years.
Without (prompting?) the officer told him he had been punched and urinated on as he tried to save a dying victim at Hillsborough. The following day there was another chance meeting with a second officer who again without prompting said he had seen some fans behaving badly including attacking police and urinating on officers.
At this stage we felt it was not enough confirmation to send a story making such serious claims.
However, on Monday 17th another reporter met a third officer who volunteered information and re-iterated similar stories saying he seen police attacked and had been told of fans urinating down the terraces as police pulled away the dead and injured.
At that stage we felt we should tell the story and sent it out the following morning (Tue april 18th).
Later the same day a third reporter met a fourth officer he has known for many years who reported the allegations and added that liverpool supporters had been stealing from the dead. Though he had not seen it personally he said despite fingertip searches of the terracing alot of personal property belonging to the dead was missing and other officers had told him of pilfering.
We sent out the additional details plus a report by south yorkshire’s chief ambulance officer that one of his men was injured when attacked as he treated a fan on the pitch.
Further quotes were sent in a later story after we spoke to the tory mp for sheffield hallam irvine patnick. He said he had spoken to police officers on Saturday night who said they had been attacked and urinated on. He had not volunteered the information previously because he felt it would inflame a very sensitive situation.
We also added quotes from south yorkshire police federation secretary who said he had heard ‘terrible’ accounts of the behaviour of some fans.
In some respects we ‘watered down’ the allegations which included a report to us that liverpool fans seeing the uncovered breasts of a dead girl shouted ‘ pass her over here and we’ll f...her”
We felt we did as much as we could to check the authenticity of the story in the time available and reported faithfully what we were told.
Ends...
The original storyfiled by us on the morning of april 18th led on angry police hitting out at liverpool fans who they said had hampered rescue attempts at the semi-final (our story catchlined ‘slam’).
During the afternoon of the 18th we received further information which was filed to you as the day progressed (catchlined pocket and patnick) adding allegations of fans stealing propert of the dead and later quotes from a leading mp backing up many of the police claims.
All the allegations in the stories we filed were made unsolicited by ranking officers in the south yorkshire force to three different experienced senior journalists who are partners in this agency. All four officers involved had been on duty at Hillsborough.
The first claims of bad behaviour came on the night of Saturday april 15th a few hours after the tragedy when one repporter met by chance a senior police officer he has known for many years.
Without (prompting?) the officer told him he had been punched and urinated on as he tried to save a dying victim at Hillsborough. The following day there was another chance meeting with a second officer who again without prompting said he had seen some fans behaving badly including attacking police and urinating on officers.
At this stage we felt it was not enough confirmation to send a story making such serious claims.
However, on Monday 17th another reporter met a third officer who volunteered information and re-iterated similar stories saying he seen police attacked and had been told of fans urinating down the terraces as police pulled away the dead and injured.
At that stage we felt we should tell the story and sent it out the following morning (Tue april 18th).
Later the same day a third reporter met a fourth officer he has known for many years who reported the allegations and added that liverpool supporters had been stealing from the dead. Though he had not seen it personally he said despite fingertip searches of the terracing alot of personal property belonging to the dead was missing and other officers had told him of pilfering.
We sent out the additional details plus a report by south yorkshire’s chief ambulance officer that one of his men was injured when attacked as he treated a fan on the pitch.
Further quotes were sent in a later story after we spoke to the tory mp for sheffield hallam irvine patnick. He said he had spoken to police officers on Saturday night who said they had been attacked and urinated on. He had not volunteered the information previously because he felt it would inflame a very sensitive situation.
We also added quotes from south yorkshire police federation secretary who said he had heard ‘terrible’ accounts of the behaviour of some fans.
In some respects we ‘watered down’ the allegations which included a report to us that liverpool fans seeing the uncovered breasts of a dead girl shouted ‘ pass her over here and we’ll f...her”
We felt we did as much as we could to check the authenticity of the story in the time available and reported faithfully what we were told.
Ends...
Couldn't agree more.
Still it's better than nothing, and my admiration for all the Hillsborough families/mates, and their struggle year after year after year is profound.
And cheers to Badunk for really caring, and keeping us informed.
What I really can't fathom is why it's taken 23 years of campaigning and a public e-petition in order for a whole load of information that's been in existence the whole time to be brought to light?
It's been sitting there, the whole time, people who weren't involved initially must have known it was there. It's not and never has been a matter of national security or public interest to have kept any of it secret.
Why the feck has it continued to be covered up for so long?
It's been sitting there, the whole time, people who weren't involved initially must have known it was there. It's not and never has been a matter of national security or public interest to have kept any of it secret.
Why the feck has it continued to be covered up for so long?
"This is my suicide note, I'm sorry for my life, bury me in a landfill."
The statement by PC Maxwell Groome was one of "those most extensively altered" the report found.
The following material was deleted from his original account:"The decision to replace Chief Superintendent Mole before the semi-final needs to come under some scrutiny. This man had many years experience of policing big matches at Hillsborough.
Compared to other semi-finals held at Hillsborough, the organisation of this event was poor, as has been the case for most of the season. Too little notice had been taken of current trends and football intelligence and too much reliance has been placed upon previous information held.
Too many non-operational supervisory officers were in charge of important and critical parts of the football ground.
The deployment of officers around the crucial time needs to come under scrutiny, too many were sat around in the gymnasium whilst others were rushed off their feet."
He also wrote originally: "It was noticeable that the only supervisory officers above the rank of Inspector on the pitch were Chief Inspectors Beal and Sumner and Superintendent Greenwood. Certain supervisory officers were conspicuous by their absence. It was utter chaos."
This was changed to: "On the pitch were Chief Inspectors Beal and Sumner and Superintendent Greenwood."
The following material was deleted from his original account:"The decision to replace Chief Superintendent Mole before the semi-final needs to come under some scrutiny. This man had many years experience of policing big matches at Hillsborough.
Compared to other semi-finals held at Hillsborough, the organisation of this event was poor, as has been the case for most of the season. Too little notice had been taken of current trends and football intelligence and too much reliance has been placed upon previous information held.
Too many non-operational supervisory officers were in charge of important and critical parts of the football ground.
The deployment of officers around the crucial time needs to come under scrutiny, too many were sat around in the gymnasium whilst others were rushed off their feet."
He also wrote originally: "It was noticeable that the only supervisory officers above the rank of Inspector on the pitch were Chief Inspectors Beal and Sumner and Superintendent Greenwood. Certain supervisory officers were conspicuous by their absence. It was utter chaos."
This was changed to: "On the pitch were Chief Inspectors Beal and Sumner and Superintendent Greenwood."
i remember watching it live on telly at the time, and i have to say i find the images now quite upsetting and disturbing
"That was one evil nasty man...and I will never accept an apology from him" Anne Williams on Kelvin Mackenzie.
yeah, me too GB.
I remember thinking at the time that it was some sort of crowd trouble when the telly switched over to live coverage.
only found out hours later what had happened.
horrible.
I remember thinking at the time that it was some sort of crowd trouble when the telly switched over to live coverage.
only found out hours later what had happened.
horrible.
Jenny Booth
Last updated at 3:11PM, September 12 2012
1621 BST: Labour MP John Mann has written to David Cameron calling for the removal of Sir Irvine Patnick’s knighthood. The businessman and former Sheffield Hallam MP is named in the Hillsborough report as one of the people who passed on allegations to the press about shameful behaviour by Liverpool fans.
On the Times website.
Last updated at 3:11PM, September 12 2012
1621 BST: Labour MP John Mann has written to David Cameron calling for the removal of Sir Irvine Patnick’s knighthood. The businessman and former Sheffield Hallam MP is named in the Hillsborough report as one of the people who passed on allegations to the press about shameful behaviour by Liverpool fans.
On the Times website.
When you look at his entry on wikipedia, it is hardly suprising that he had this opinion on football fans, he is a bigot.
Can't disagree. He has the right to give his side I suppose but I can't imagine anything he could say worth a damn.
Somebody is going to fill that MacKenzie cnut in one of these days. He's always discussing the newspaper headlines on Sky News and I've always despised him on there. Ignorant as I am, I no idea that was actually him.
Still some going on about fans being drunk and ticketless, of course their fans are never like that. The hypocrisy is staggering. Also if it had been policed properly like the previous year, those fans wouldn't have got near the ground. They got rid of a good Chief Constable who had years of experience policing big games. It's all the higher ranks police fault giving out bad orders to their rank and file. They then went about with their solicitors changing statement made by their men. Disgusting. Thst ground shouldn't even been holding a SF.
Very good question. Blair and Brown were in power for 13 years, and how many wars did the former manage to start in that time? But there was no time for this? I realise they have the electorate of Merseyside sown up regardless, but still for this to have to come 23 years after the event during Cameron's government is ridiculous.
This isn't an e-threat or anything as I would never do it, but how the hell has he walked around the streets for 23 years without getting a kicking?
The images chill my spine. It's the first time I have seen a lot of them.
I was at a gig a few years back and it was pretty crazy with people pushing their way to the front as they usually do, they had a fence just below chest height and anyone that fainted or crowd surfed was being passed over to the stewards and let back in around the side.
With a flow of people going over the fence and back round it was fine but after about half an hour it was mostly just big guys that had ended up at the front and they were refusing to go over the fence and were happy in the maelstrom at the front as they can handle themselves.... for people that weren't hulking monsters it was hell on earth, I found myself getting pushed further and further forward and was eventually around the front, barely able to breath literally grabbing peoples necks to make sure I didn't go under.
I realised that I was going to have to get up and over and hope a steward would get me out and let me join again out of the carnage nearer the back but as I was trying to get over I managed to end up right at the front with my arms down by my side with people jammed next to me so I couldn't move them and and my shoulder jammed under the fence so I couldn't get up.
I was there for what was probably only a minute or so but it felt like forever and I only got out when a steward saw I was in serious shit and after trying to get the guys around me to let me out he had to grab another steward and start going to work punching the crap out of the guy's faces that had me trapped in and then literally ripped me out of there.
I came out of it with only bruises on my arms, shoulders and ribs but it was hand's down the scariest moment of my life. You have no way of moving with that force against you, you can't breath, you can't think. I was lucky the fence was only small (through design no doubt thanks to what was learnt from disasters like Hillsborough) but I can't imagine what it was like for those people who looked up at that fence at Hillsborough with no sign of it ending above them and for the sheer force of thousands of people putting so much pressure on their bodies and not just for a minute like I experienced, for some of them it just didn't stop. I really can't imagine a worse way to die.
For people to experience that, for people to know their loved ones experienced that and for the people responsible to have acted as such cowards for the last 20 putting blame on the victims and even soiling their memories with lies, it is so, so important that justice is done.
I was at a gig a few years back and it was pretty crazy with people pushing their way to the front as they usually do, they had a fence just below chest height and anyone that fainted or crowd surfed was being passed over to the stewards and let back in around the side.
With a flow of people going over the fence and back round it was fine but after about half an hour it was mostly just big guys that had ended up at the front and they were refusing to go over the fence and were happy in the maelstrom at the front as they can handle themselves.... for people that weren't hulking monsters it was hell on earth, I found myself getting pushed further and further forward and was eventually around the front, barely able to breath literally grabbing peoples necks to make sure I didn't go under.
I realised that I was going to have to get up and over and hope a steward would get me out and let me join again out of the carnage nearer the back but as I was trying to get over I managed to end up right at the front with my arms down by my side with people jammed next to me so I couldn't move them and and my shoulder jammed under the fence so I couldn't get up.
I was there for what was probably only a minute or so but it felt like forever and I only got out when a steward saw I was in serious shit and after trying to get the guys around me to let me out he had to grab another steward and start going to work punching the crap out of the guy's faces that had me trapped in and then literally ripped me out of there.
I came out of it with only bruises on my arms, shoulders and ribs but it was hand's down the scariest moment of my life. You have no way of moving with that force against you, you can't breath, you can't think. I was lucky the fence was only small (through design no doubt thanks to what was learnt from disasters like Hillsborough) but I can't imagine what it was like for those people who looked up at that fence at Hillsborough with no sign of it ending above them and for the sheer force of thousands of people putting so much pressure on their bodies and not just for a minute like I experienced, for some of them it just didn't stop. I really can't imagine a worse way to die.
For people to experience that, for people to know their loved ones experienced that and for the people responsible to have acted as such cowards for the last 20 putting blame on the victims and even soiling their memories with lies, it is so, so important that justice is done.
Well said that man...!!Anyone with half a brain could have seen that what the sun reported was absolute nonsense, and vile nonsense at that. It read more like the actions of cartoon villains than ordinary, working-class football fans.
McKenzie was intelligent enough to realise that himself. He knew rightly, but it didn't matter to him as long as the sensationalist story sold a few papers. He just didn't think it would become as iconic as it has done and discredit him in the way that it has. When McKenzie and the sun decided that day to smear the Liverpool fans, as well as the city of Liverpool and football fans as a whole, the only ones who got 'smeared' were the scum at the suns newspaper.
The report doesn't surprise me though, not one bit. You won't find a person in the north of Ireland who would be surprised either. Everyone knows what that witch Thatcher and her government were like. The british government smeared the innocent people after bloody sunday, and gave their murderers freedom from prosecution to go with their medals, pensions and parades. They've done similar many times in Ireland and they done the same with Hillsborough.
A while back I had a read at the Hillsborough website and was looking at survivors reports and information about the day and all that. I'm not an emotional person by any means and I have to say I found the whole thing very moving. People like Margeret Aspinall and Anne Williams, and many others like them, have been fighting for this day for twenty three years, and I'm really happy that their loved ones have been vindicated. Hopefully now that they have the truth, the real truth, they can get the justice that their loved ones deserve.
Because noods, the authorities hate to admit they are ever a) wrong, b) at fault or c) complicit in relation to any tradgey/crime/cover up. An admission of that sort fully undermines their authority, much easier for society if they leave it alone until they have to come out with it.
Probably the same fans that say we've been milking the plane crash for the last 54 years.
Scum