e-petition to release the govt Hillsborough files

[Badunk]

"I'm sorry" : Cameron to apologise to families of Hillsborough victims on day unseen files will be released

The Prime Minister will say sorry for years of official blunders over the 1989 football disaster when 96 football fans were crushed to death in Sheffield

David Cameron is to apologise to the families of Hillsborough victims this week.

In an announcement in the House of Commons on Wednesday the Prime Minister will say sorry for years of official blunders over the 1989 football disaster when 96 football fans were crushed to death in Sheffield.

His speech will come on a “momentous” day for relativates of the victims. It will also see the release of previously unpublished files which are expected to expose widespread failures by South Yorkshire police and other public bodies.

Government sources say Mr Cameron will express his regret that mistakes were made and that it took so long for them to be revealed.

Families who have protested for years at the way the aftermath was handled expect the new information to prove conclusively that police refused to accept responsibility for the disaster.

The report, following a two-year inquiry by the Hillsborough Independent Panel, is also believed to criticise police officers who falsely claimed that drunk and ticketless supporters were to blame.

The panel, headed by the Bishop of Liverpool, examined about 450,000 documents held by police, the ambulance service and other bodies.

Yesterday leading Hillsborough campaigner Margaret Aspinall, whose son James, 18, was one of the fans crushed to death at the Liverpool v Nottingham Forest match, said: “It is right that someone should say sorry for the mistakes that were made.

“I’ve been hopeful in the past and been let down but I hope this time we will get to the real truth of Hillsborough. It has been a complete cover-up. There has been no justice for the 96 people who died or their families.”

Relatives hope the findings will help overturn inquest verdicts that the deaths were an accident.

Mrs Aspinall, 74, is adamant that the victims were unlawfully killed. “I refused my son’s death certificate,” she said. “I will have it when the right verdict is on it.”

The families hope the report clears fans of all blame for the fatal crush and finally disproves vile newspaper allegations that they robbed and urinated on the dead.

Mrs Aspinall added: “Our fans tried to do everything to help. I’d like their names cleared. It’s going to be a momentous day for all the families who lost loved ones, and we hope the truth will at last prevail.

"People have said we need to move on... but how can you until you get the truth?”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...borough-families-1314813#.UEyCaWCLeEE.twitter

 

[Badunk]

May be off-topic, but does any of this relate to The Sun hopefully revealing their sources? Or is that a completely different matter?

The Sun reporter is on now. Comes across as a cnut, tbf. Said you can't be sure if any of the allegations (drunk fans, robbing victimes, pissing on police, etc) are 'true, partly true or totally false'. What a prick. Blames Kelvin McKenzie for the front page and the headline 'The Truth'. Said he confronted him about it and was brushed aside.

 

[Badunk]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01mrmq1/Hillsborough_Searching_for_the_Truth/


Will be up soon.

 

[kietotheworld]

What happens if Liverpool fans don't like what comes out of the report?

 

[alastair]

The report will be very vague and will not place the blame on anyone. It's impossible for that not to be the result.

 

[EricaNo7]

What happens if Liverpool fans don't like what comes out of the report?

I can't see them letting it lie , in that case

 

[Sky1981]

I dont think they will accept whatever the outcome is, some probably, but anything in that report will be a cause for up in arms, be it pro or cont.

I can see them arranging law suits and stuff if the reports is what they want, or they will probably take it as bollocks if its the ussual same line all over again.

 

[Dave89]

I fully expect it to have been diluted and redacted to within an inch of its life. We're (I say we as its an issue all football fans should care about) going to get very little from this I'm afraid.

 

[redman5]

What happens if Liverpool fans don't like what comes out of the report?

Justice means different things to the many different people who've been affected by the Hillsborough tragedy. For people like Margaret Aspinall, who lost a loved one that day, I imagine only a prosecution of some sort would suffice. Along with the acknowledgement that her son was unlawfully killed. For people like me, who stood on The Leppings Lane terraces & were helpless to do anything to help, except try, without success, to alert the passing police officers of the carnage that was happening in the pens. Seeing the real 'truth' slowly, but surely, come out over the years, has certainly helped alleviate a lot of the anger & frustration we've suffered for a long, long time. There's a kind of contented satisfaction in seeing The Sun newspaper linked to Hillsborough for all the wrong reasons - So for me personally, I have my own kind of justice. I live in hope, more than expectation, that the families who lost sons, daughters, & fathers that day, will get theirs. The files have been in the hands of the police for over 20 years. Plenty of time to add, change, or 'lose' anything that might incriminate certain high ranking people. I'd be gobsmacked to say the least, if anything meaningful were to come out of those files.

 

[SteveJ]

Good post, R5.

 

[Decotron]

Justice means different things to the many different people who've been affected by the Hillsborough tragedy. For people like Margaret Aspinall, who lost a loved one that day, I imagine only a prosecution of some sort would suffice. Along with the acknowledgement that her son was unlawfully killed. For people like me, who stood on The Leppings Lane terraces & were helpless to do anything to help, except try, without success, to alert the passing police officers of the carnage that was happening in the pens. Seeing the real 'truth' slowly, but surely, come out over the years, has certainly helped alleviate a lot of the anger & frustration we've suffered for a long, long time. There's a kind of contented satisfaction in seeing The Sun newspaper linked to Hillsborough for all the wrong reasons - So for me personally, I have my own kind of justice. I live in hope, more than expectation, that the families who lost sons, daughters, & fathers that day, will get theirs. The files have been in the hands of the police for over 20 years. Plenty of time to add, change, or 'lose' anything that might incriminate certain high ranking people. I'd be gobsmacked to say the least, if anything meaningful were to come out of those files.

Indeed. shame really.

 

[Andrew~]

Right. I'm quite young so haven't really ever been told what the current campaign is about and what it is targeting. Obviously the incident was an absolute tragedy but who exactly do people want to be prosecuted, and exactly what details are expected, or do people want, to come out when the government release these documents?

Again, I'm relatively clueless about this whole thing so would like to get informed. Thanks.

 

[redmeister]

Right. I'm quite young so haven't really ever been told what the current campaign is about and what it is targeting. Obviously the incident was an absolute tragedy but who exactly do people want to be prosecuted, and exactly what details are expected, or do people want, to come out when the government release these documents?

Again, I'm relatively clueless about this whole thing so would like to get informed. Thanks.

From what I've read, like with so many tragedies, so many different factors caused it. For some reason people often want to pin point blame, but whilst people were obviously at fault and did things wrong, I'm not sure you can really lay blame at their door.

It's easy to view it as a case of the police treating people like animals, but that would be a very unempathetic view in my opinion. From that point of view you have to ask why policing at football games was as it was in the 80's. So from that point of view you have to look to wider causes, that date back to before the tragedy. I can't help but think if it had been a different type of event, rather than a football match, then the police would have been far more receptive to the demands to cut down the fences and let people on the pitch.

I'd imagine many involved didn't tell the truth afterwards as they didn't want to be treated as a scape goat, which I think is a perfectly normal human reaction.

 

[thegregster]

Right. I'm quite young so haven't really ever been told what the current campaign is about and what it is targeting. Obviously the incident was an absolute tragedy but who exactly do people want to be prosecuted, and exactly what details are expected, or do people want, to come out when the government release these documents?

Again, I'm relatively clueless about this whole thing so would like to get informed. Thanks.

http://www.southyorks.police.uk/sites/default/files/Taylor Interim Report.pdf

I think the Taylor interim report is a good place to start if you want to read up on what happened on the day.

 

[Guy Incognito]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01mrmq1/Hillsborough_Searching_for_the_Truth/


Will be up soon.

Thanks for that. Will watch it later this evening.

 

[londonredmaniac]

From what I've read, like with so many tragedies, so many different factors caused it. For some reason people often want to pin point blame, but whilst people were obviously at fault and did things wrong, I'm not sure you can really lay blame at their door.

It's easy to view it as a case of the police treating people like animals, but that would be a very unempathetic view in my opinion. From that point of view you have to ask why policing at football games was as it was in the 80's. So from that point of view you have to look to wider causes, that date back to before the tragedy. I can't help but think if it had been a different type of event, rather than a football match, then the police would have been far more receptive to the demands to cut down the fences and let people on the pitch.

I'd imagine many involved didn't tell the truth afterwards as they didn't want to be treated as a scape goat, which I think is a perfectly normal human reaction.

They blamed the supporters...stories of beating paramedics giving the kiss of life, pissing on their own dead and stealing from crushed corpses...

Not only did the families have to come to terms with the deaths of loved ones, supporters watching their fellow mates die...but they had to then endure this horrible slur that they were in fact to blame.

It's an insult and a massive miscarriage of justice. The people at the top want calling to answer charges. A fecking disgrace in every way possible.

 

[alastair]

They blamed the supporters...stories of beating paramedics giving the kiss of life, pissing on their own dead and stealing from crushed corpses...

Not only did the families have to come to terms with the deaths of loved ones, supporters watching their fellow mates die...but they had to then endure this horrible slur that they were in fact to blame.

It's an insult and a massive miscarriage of justice. The people at the top want calling to answer charges. A fecking disgrace in every way possible.

It was horrible; no doubt about that. It makes me so angry to think that there's anyone out there who could write a false story blaming the supporters when survivors are grieving.

That said, I thought it had now been officially accepted that the supporters weren't to blame? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I always thought that the verdict was very much 'it was a mixture of factors.'

I feel the problem with the Justice campaign, whilst admirable, is that justice shall be impossible to find. The blame cannot be laid at the feet of any one individual, and consequently that will always appear unsatisfactory to those who have lost family members or friends in the tragedy. What is 'justice?'

 

[Liam147]

They blamed the supporters...stories of beating paramedics giving the kiss of life, pissing on their own dead and stealing from crushed corpses...

Not only did the families have to come to terms with the deaths of loved ones, supporters watching their fellow mates die...but they had to then endure this horrible slur that they were in fact to blame.

It's an insult and a massive miscarriage of justice. The people at the top want calling to answer charges. A fecking disgrace in every way possible.

You'll have to pardon my ignorance here and be aware that I'm certainly not meaning to offend anyone, but how can these things be officially, 100% ruled out? I'm certainly not accusing them of what Kelvin McKenzie said they did, but are we all 100% sure it didn't happen, or are we making assumptions based on the fact that what they were said to have done, was so atrocious, we can all rule it out?

Secondly, were the supporters completely blame-free? I was at Ewood Park last season, and most people there will tell you that we'd had more fans than those allocated. People must've found a way in without paying, and if the police start opening gates to ticketless fans at an FA Cup semi final, of course they're going to go in, but are they not somewhat at fault? Or is it just a case of "Well, what did you expect them to do, turn away?"?

Like I say, you'll have to pardon my ignorance on the matter. With it being four years before I was even born, a lot of the details have been way over my head.

 

[MightyRedz]

You'll have to pardon my ignorance here and be aware that I'm certainly not meaning to offend anyone, but how can these things be officially, 100% ruled out? I'm certainly not accusing them of what Kelvin McKenzie said they did, but are we all 100% sure it didn't happen, or are we making assumptions based on the fact that what they were said to have done, was so atrocious, we can all rule it out?

Secondly, were the supporters completely blame-free? I was at Ewood Park last season, and most people there will tell you that we'd had more fans than those allocated. People must've found a way in without paying, and if the police start opening gates to ticketless fans at an FA Cup semi final, of course they're going to go in, but are they not somewhat at fault? Or is it just a case of "Well, what did you expect them to do, turn away?"?

Like I say, you'll have to pardon my ignorance on the matter. With it being four years before I was even born, a lot of the details have been way over my head.

The Hillsborough issue is such a complicated and sensitive one that you really need to get acquainted with the facts by reading all of the excellent websites and journo's blogs, this will answer all of your questions. The Lord Justice Taylor enquiry completely and officially exonorated the fans from all of the allegations made. It's hard for someone whose grown up with all-seater stadia to appreciate what it was like in the days of standing terraces, the fans were caged in at the front, and hemmed in at the sides, so that when the police wrongly (Taylor's word not mine) opened the gate and instead of marshalling the fans to the empty side pens just let them choose the shortest route straight ahead into the already overfull two pens it was an inevitable consequence that people would be crushed to death and the person who made that dreadful decision (Chief Superintendent Duckinfield) then lied to cover his own skin, saying that the fans had forced the gate. Police briefings to the Thatcher government were along the same lines and when the truth started to come out the authorities seemed to all close ranks and mount what (I hope) will now be shown to be an orchestrated and quite disraceful cover-up. I wasn't at Hillsborough on the day, but like all LFC fans I've been haunted by those events ever since. Thank you sincerely for the generosity of spirit shown, not just now, but over the years to the Hillsborough campaigns here on RedCafe.

 

[londonredmaniac]

You'll have to pardon my ignorance here and be aware that I'm certainly not meaning to offend anyone, but how can these things be officially, 100% ruled out? I'm certainly not accusing them of what Kelvin McKenzie said they did, but are we all 100% sure it didn't happen, or are we making assumptions based on the fact that what they were said to have done, was so atrocious, we can all rule it out?

Secondly, were the supporters completely blame-free? I was at Ewood Park last season, and most people there will tell you that we'd had more fans than those allocated. People must've found a way in without paying, and if the police start opening gates to ticketless fans at an FA Cup semi final, of course they're going to go in, but are they not somewhat at fault? Or is it just a case of "Well, what did you expect them to do, turn away?"?

Like I say, you'll have to pardon my ignorance on the matter. With it being four years before I was even born, a lot of the details have been way over my head.

No need to apologise mate, I was fairly ignorant of many of the facts until I got reading a few years ago. As Mighty says get yourself in there at the deep end and have a read.

There were a huge number of cameras at the game. Hundreds...plenty of journos with cameras everywhere. Not one photograph nor video (to my knowledge at least) has ever surfaced supporting any of those vile claims. They do, however, show Police ignoring crowds in the pen, attacking fans in the pen that tried to climb out and shows supporters on the pitch ushering in medical attention, giving the kiss of life and attempting to aid others.

 

[londonredmaniac]

The Hillsborough issue is such a complicated and sensitive one that you really need to get acquainted with the facts by reading all of the excellent websites and journo's blogs, this will answer all of your questions. The Lord Justice Taylor enquiry completely and officially exonorated the fans from all of the allegations made. It's hard for someone whose grown up with all-seater stadia to appreciate what it was like in the days of standing terraces, the fans were caged in at the front, and hemmed in at the sides, so that when the police wrongly (Taylor's word not mine) opened the gate and instead of marshalling the fans to the empty side pens just let them choose the shortest route straight ahead into the already overfull two pens it was an inevitable consequence that people would be crushed to death and the person who made that dreadful decision (Chief Superintendent Duckinfield) then lied to cover his own skin, saying that the fans had forced the gate. Police briefings to the Thatcher government were along the same lines and when the truth started to come out the authorities seemed to all close ranks and mount what (I hope) will now be shown to be an orchestrated and quite disraceful cover-up. I wasn't at Hillsborough on the day, but like all LFC fans I've been haunted by those events ever since. Thank you sincerely for the generosity of spirit shown, not just now, but over the years to the Hillsborough campaigns here on RedCafe.

Some things transcend football rivalry.

 

[EricaNo7]

Some things transcend football rivalry.

They do to rational fans , you mean

 

[londonredmaniac]

They do to rational fans , you mean

I'll not speak for others Erica...I can only be responsible for my own actions as can you.

All I know is when I read the names of the dead, that include kids (not that It would be any different if it wasn't), it's not something I can use to score some cheap points. I'm not what anyone would call a 'PC fan'...but this just leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

I sincerely hope the families get the answers they need, and those responsible are brought to justice with the record set straight.

 

[Badunk]

Anyone who wants to know the details of what happened and the aftermath can just read this thread. There's lots of articles and photos, many of which will shock you (be warned). It's good that some of our younger fans are taking an interest. Spread the word, guys

Btw, anyone watch the ITV one last night?

 

[redman5]

This is for some of the younger ones who might want to read up a bit more on what happened.

http://thehillsboroughdisasterdocumentary.com/15-04-1989-what-really-happened/

 

[redman5]

http://www.itv.com/itvplayer/video/?Filter=324782

The ITV documentary from last night. They did an excellent job. Hard-hitting & tough to watch at times, but for anyone that can spare 47 minutes, it's well worth it.

 

[Canuckred64]

http://www.itv.com/itvplayer/video/?Filter=324782

The ITV documentary from last night. They did an excellent job. Hard-hitting & tough to watch at times, but for anyone that can spare 47 minutes, it's well worth it.

Doesn't seem to be available in Canada. Would have liked to seen it.

 

[SteveJ]

When you kiss goodbye to those close to you tomorrow morning, imagine it is the last kiss you share. Imagine those close to you taking part in their ordinary routine - work, shopping, school – but never coming home. Ninety-six people did an ordinary thing on April 15 1989. An ordinary thing is all football is and all it was ever meant to be. Those 96 people went to a football match, never to return. No one should ever have to suffer that. Many have for 23 years.

A lot can happen in 23 years. Twenty-three birthdays, 23 Christmas Days. Countless football matches. Jon-Paul Gilhooley, the youngest victim of the tragedy, would now be 33. But a lot hasn’t happened in 23 years for those involved with Hillsborough. The families of the victims still wait for justice; the survivors of the tragedy still wait for answers. For 23 years, the full extent of what happened and how the authorities failed them have been withheld. It is 23 years too long.

On Wednesday, the overdue next step is taken. An independent panel of experts, chaired by James Jones, the Bishop of Liverpool, will attempt to deliver the narrative to events at Hillsborough. 450,000 internal documents have been perused for nearly two years. A number of unanswered questions will hopefully be answered; the shadow that looms over the truth of that day, cast by those in authority that day, will finally be lifted.

The Hillsborough Family Support Group (HFSG) submitted 42 questions to the panel, every one as pertinent as the other.

Some questions related to the cause: Why was a venue without a safety certificate used for such a high-profile match? Why did just one ambulance of 42 make it on to the pitch? Why were only 14 of the victims taken to hospital?

Some related to the consequences: Who misled or encouraged Bernard Ingham, then Home Secretary, into erroneously thinking "drunken ticketless fans" were to blame? Why were police statements edited? Why the inference of alcohol, including accusing one victim of vomiting beer when there was no alcohol in his blood alcohol sample?

Yet more questions, not included in the HFSG’s list. Why, during the immediate aftermath of the tragedy, was it wrongly said that fans had pushed down the exit gate, even though Chief Superintendent David Duckenfield ordered it to be opened? Why was it said the cut-off point for time of deaths was at 3.15pm, when one of the victims, 15-year-old Kevin Williams, was reported to have been alive after that time by both an off-duty police officer and special constable?

But the biggest question of all is why the families and friends of the deceased have had to ask these questions for so long; why the survivors of the disaster have never been given answers. It has not been due to a lack of effort or commitment. The Hillsborough Justice Campaign (HJC) are bereaved families, survivors and supporters who have worked tirelessly to find justice; to see those who should truly be held to blame be outed.

Their quest has not been helped by the actions of the Sun newspaper days after the disaster. The headline “THE TRUTH”, concocted by then-editor Kelvin Mackenzie, was a crass attempt to sensationalise the deaths of 96 people. What’s worse, it accused the Liverpool supporters of vile acts, every single accusation untrue. It claimed fans stole from and urinated on the dead, deeds perpetrated because of drunkenness. Not one single person has ever come forward to back up those stories, because those acts were never committed. Lord Justice Taylor, in his report on the disaster, said fans were not drunk, nor worse for drink. But some in this country care little for facts. It is because of those lies that people don’t support the fight for justice.

It is because of those lies that some people regard Liverpool as a "self-pity city". Either through ignorance or bigotry, some people still believe it. But the city has risen above it and the boycott of the Sun is still, rightfully, adhered to by most on Merseyside.

But beyond the despicable behaviour of journalist Harry Arnold and his editor Mackenzie lies something more crucial. The story was undoubtedly an attempt to shock; furthermore, it was a missile fired at supporters, a large stroke of the brush in a smear campaign launched by the authorities in an attempt to cover their own incompetence. There are a lot of people to blame for the Hillsborough disaster – Liverpool fans were not among them. That has already been proven. What is now hoped for is that the report reveals who truly is, on the record, for everyone to know.

It is the least those who have fought for 23 years deserve for their dignity and perseverance throughout. In January 2007, Anfield staged a ‘Truth Day’, a protest against the lies printed by The Sun in 1989. It was as poignant as it was visceral. For six minutes, the Kop held up red and white cards to form a mosaic which spelt out ‘THE TRUTH’ and chanted ‘Justice for the 96’, each repetition becoming louder, more intense, more emotional; so loud, intense and emotional, no one could ignore it. Not even the government. It was time they listened. They didn’t in 1989. Hopefully, they do now.

The people who died at Hillsborough would still be on the Kop today following their football team. A hug at Istanbul or a sing song at Wembley, lost forever. No matter where you are in Anfield, it's hard not to spot the eternal flame. It rests upon the club’s shirt. It rests upon pin badges and stickers. It flickers, never-ending, inside the Hillsborough memorial. It is a reminder to us all that no one should have to suffer what those who knew the 96 suffered; a reminder that no one should never return home from a game of football.

“All the families have ever wanted is the full truth, and an acknowledgement by those responsible,” said Margaret Aspinall at the 20th anniversary memorial service at Anfield. Margaret is the chair of the Hillsborough Family Support Group, whose 18-year-old son James died in the disaster. Three years on from that memorial, and 23 years after losing her son, the full truth may be imminent. It might not give her, or the other families, the justice they want, nor the closure they will probably never have. But the eternal flame still flickers, never to be extinguished. It will burn brighter still on Wednesday.

......

 

[Marching]

The Hillsborough issue is such a complicated and sensitive one that you really need to get acquainted with the facts by reading all of the excellent websites and journo's blogs, this will answer all of your questions. The Lord Justice Taylor enquiry completely and officially exonorated the fans from all of the allegations made. It's hard for someone whose grown up with all-seater stadia to appreciate what it was like in the days of standing terraces, the fans were caged in at the front, and hemmed in at the sides, so that when the police wrongly (Taylor's word not mine) opened the gate and instead of marshalling the fans to the empty side pens just let them choose the shortest route straight ahead into the already overfull two pens it was an inevitable consequence that people would be crushed to death and the person who made that dreadful decision (Chief Superintendent Duckinfield) then lied to cover his own skin, saying that the fans had forced the gate. Police briefings to the Thatcher government were along the same lines and when the truth started to come out the authorities seemed to all close ranks and mount what (I hope) will now be shown to be an orchestrated and quite disraceful cover-up. I wasn't at Hillsborough on the day, but like all LFC fans I've been haunted by those events ever since. Thank you sincerely for the generosity of spirit shown, not just now, but over the years to the Hillsborough campaigns here on RedCafe.

There must be closure to this awful tragedy and that will only come if those responsible are identified so any further fudging of events simply must be allowed to happen.

For me that responsibility lies squarely with Chief Inspector Duckinfield as he was in charge that day. He changed policing up to the time the fans passed through the gates which meant fans arrived quicker and larger numbers and then he then decided the side gate should be opened which meant more fans were in the central pens than should have been.

To add insult to injury Duckinfield then lied in an attempt to save his skin.

It is a shame he's dead as I would have liked to have seen him prosecuted.

It's also worth noting that the same teams played each other at the same stage of the cup in 1988 at the same ground and with Chief Inspector Brian Mole in charge there were no incidents.

JFT96

 

[Liam147]

......

Very good article apart from this part:

There are a lot of people to blame for the Hillsborough disaster – Liverpool fans were not among them. That has already been proven.

How has it been proven? In nearly every account you see, the phrase "ticketless fans" is mentioned. As I said earlier, there aren't many football fans who'd turn down that opportunity, but surely it doesn't make it right? If they were ticketless, they shouldn't have been there.

I certainly wouldn't say it's their fault at all - those in positions of responsibility should've done many things differently, but from all I can tell, Liverpool fans were not 100% blame-free, as is suggested in that article.

 

[Dave89]

Cameron to make a statement in the Commons tomorrow at 12.30

 

[Marching]

Very good article apart from this part:



How has it been proven? In nearly every account you see, the phrase "ticketless fans" is mentioned. As I said earlier, there aren't many football fans who'd turn down that opportunity, but surely it doesn't make it right? If they were ticketless, they shouldn't have been there.

I certainly wouldn't say it's their fault at all - those in positions of responsibility should've done many things differently, but from all I can tell, Liverpool fans were not 100% blame-free, as is suggested in that article.

What do you blame them for and how did what they do contribute to 96 fans dying?

 

[Liam147]

What do you blame them for and how did what they do contribute to 96 fans dying?

As I said, I wouldn't lay the blame at their feet, but the fans who went there without tickets, surely didn't help the cause?

 

[Marching]

As I said, I wouldn't lay the blame at their feet, but the fans who went there without tickets, surely didn't help the cause?

Forgive my confusion...you said Liverpool fans were not 100% blameless...this suggests you blame them for something yet now you're saying you wouldn't lay the blame at their feet.

I doubt this game didn't have the usual ticketless fans but I doubt they were in sufficient numbers to cause any problems on the day.

In fact, analysis of the electronic monitoring system, Health and Safety Executive analysis, and eyewitness accounts showed that the total number of people who had already entered the Leppings Lane End was far below the capacity of the stand. Additionally, eye witness reports suggested that tickets were easily available on the day of the game, and that tickets for the Leppings Lane End were still on sale from Anfield until the day before the game. The Taylor report dismissed the conspiracy theory.

 

[Badunk]

Graphic photos: be warned.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Eddie Spearitt was at the front with his son Adam. This is his testimony …

“The crush came … it wasn’t a surge. It was like a vice getting tighter and tighter and tighter. I turned Adam round to me. He was obviously in distress. There was a police officer, about five or six feet away and I started screaming. Adam had fainted and my words were ‘my lovely son is dying’ and begging him to help me and he didn’t do anything. I grabbed hold of Adam’s lapels and tried to lift him over the fence. It was ten feet or thereabouts with spikes coming in. I couldn’t lift him. So I started punching the fence in the hope I could knock it down. Right at the beginning, when I was begging that officer to open the gate I know I could have got Adam out. I know that because I was there’.

Adam Spearitt, 14, died at Hillsborough. Jenni Hicks and her husband, Trevor, who had been screaming at the police to help earlier, lost his two daughters Vicky (15) & Sarah (19).

96 lives were taken that day in total. Men, women and children. One as young as 10 years old died at a football match & The Taylor Report found the cause to be ‘A complete breakdown in police control’

 

[Liam147]

Forgive my confusion...you said Liverpool fans were not 100% blameless...this suggests you blame them for something yet now you're saying you wouldn't lay the blame at their feet.

I doubt this game didn't have the usual ticketless fans but I doubt they were in sufficient numbers to cause any problems on the day.

In fact, analysis of the electronic monitoring system, Health and Safety Executive analysis, and eyewitness accounts showed that the total number of people who had already entered the Leppings Lane End was far below the capacity of the stand. Additionally, eye witness reports suggested that tickets were easily available on the day of the game, and that tickets for the Leppings Lane End were still on sale from Anfield until the day before the game. The Taylor report dismissed the conspiracy theory.

What I was trying to say is that I wouldn't blame Liverpool fans for it, but at the same time, they didn't help the situation with ticketless fans. But if, as you say, they weren't there in sufficient numbers to cause a problem, then I can understand your side of it.

 

[Marching]

What I was trying to say is that I wouldn't blame Liverpool fans for it, but at the same time, they didn't help the situation with ticketless fans. But if, as you say, they weren't there in sufficient numbers to cause a problem, then I can understand your side of it.

The year before the policing included a number of ticket checks on fans as they walked towards the ground which slowed down their progress and of course weeded out ticketless fans. Duckenfield did away with these checks along with the police on duty between the turnstiles and the entrances to the terraces whose job the previous year was to direct people equally to the terrace sections.

This, along with Duckenfield opening the side gate was the reason people were crushed and killed.

I think the overpowering thought I have about the day is it could have been any of us match going fans that didn't come home that day. I've had some scary moments at games over the years and was at Hillsborough for a Leeds FA cup semi in '72 so thank my lucky stars it wasn't policed by Duckinfield.

 

[redman5]

What I was trying to say is that I wouldn't blame Liverpool fans for it, but at the same time, they didn't help the situation with ticketless fans. But if, as you say, they weren't there in sufficient numbers to cause a problem, then I can understand your side of it.

There were ticketless fans there. I heard a few shouting, "any spares", as I made my way to The Leppings Lane. It was a sound heard at most big games back then. The fact that they were there was totally irrelevant to what happened that day. The tragedy would have occurred even if every single person would have been in possession of a ticket. & FWIW, I got my 3 tickets from the Anfield ticket office the previous day.

 

[Badunk]

http://www.joeybarton.com/hillsborough-justice-campaign-the-truth/

Joey Barton met with some of the relatives and those involved in the campaign (video inside).

 

[Rednails]

Even though the Chief is dead now, South Yorkshire Police should still be held accountable for gross incompetence, dereliction of duty and perverting the course of justice. Those poor people did not die accidentally, it was manslaughter.