"Never win anything with kids"
Eduardo Camavinga / signs for Real Madrid
- Thread starter MyOnlySolskjaer
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No chance Camavinga costs 70m with a year left from Rennes, surely?
Sancho isn't 90m either. Looks like it'll get done around 80m.
I don’t think Rennes will reject a fee of 50-60M euros if presented to them if the player isn’t going to renew. It’s a massive sum of money for a club like Rennes. Although I think PSG will blow us out of the water in terms of fees and wages if they want him
Reminds me of the bad guy from Angels & Demons.
People get themselves confused by this excessive talk of our need for a defensive midfielder. There's no "all-out DM" in a 4231. What we need is a sitting CM with defensive qualities (and some other qualities as well). And that is exactly Camavingas role. Although he is also a player who contributes offensively, and who apparently has the versatility to play elsewhere if needed.
People talking like he is a Pogba replacement. Question I have is, can they play together?
No. He's perfect to grow into being a brilliant midfielder, and he's good defensively himself, but he likes to (and is very good at) moving with the ball and dribbling forward. He does lose it somewhat often though as a result. You need to pair someone like that with someone secure in possession. Camavinga is a good passer but again, you want someone in midfield next to him who will balance out that running with the ball and risk of losing it with someone who will just stay and very rarely give it away. It leaves you exposed in the middle if you don't have that.
He's similar to Pogba, except far better defensively and more adept to being in a deeper midfield role where he'd be a natural IMO, while not being quite as creative or as much attacking influence, which is fine as he naturally plays deeper. We definitely need 2 midfielders though, unless Garner can turn into the partner for him? All our other midfielders are in the bottom ~30% in Europe for getting dispossessed/miscontrols as they love trying to dribble with it. Fine of one of them is like that, but can't have them all like that.
I have a feeling it’ll turn out like Bellingham Haaland and Upamecano. Spotting the right players and having solid intentions to develop the player into a star but not getting the deals done because we won’t pay what it takes and we can’t instantly guarantee as much football as teams in easier leagues. I also think there was something like 20k a week in the difference between what us and Dortmund were offering Bellingham. Gotta go early and aggressive if you want to save on the giant transfer fees later on. Hopefully Murtough and Fletcher have spotted the trend and finally nip it in the bud. This lad could easily be worth double on the market in 2/3 years.
Excited about the link but this will drag on and no doubt PSG will be pulling out all the stops. Their midfield needs a boost and this lad should be just the ticket. On the other hand we have Pogba here and a team he should be able to break into. It may also be interesting that he’s switched to an English agency this year. His new agent has also already rubbished talks of the player going to Arsenal
Excited about the link but this will drag on and no doubt PSG will be pulling out all the stops. Their midfield needs a boost and this lad should be just the ticket. On the other hand we have Pogba here and a team he should be able to break into. It may also be interesting that he’s switched to an English agency this year. His new agent has also already rubbished talks of the player going to Arsenal
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Thanks. Could you play them together in a three? If not, Pogba at LW, Fred, Camavinga and Bruno in a 3?
I wonder how this post will age by September ha ha
Tbh I don't see any long term midfield or team with Pogba in it. I don't see a midfield with Pogba and Bruno together working, unless we had like prime Makelele behind them. And considering we're signing Sancho, that'll more than replace Pogba's creative benefit when he played at left wing last season.
Camaving and Bruno as part of a 3 together for sure can work, either in a 4231 or a 433. Same with Pogba instead of Bruno. Pogba and Bruno is a no go IMO. Either way though we need the more secure midfielder in there. The sitting midfielder to hold it together positionally and not always want to move around or vacate the midfield. Camavinga could easily grow to be the main player in our midfield and do really well behind Bruno, but he wouldn't be the guy who just holds. Still need our own Fabinho, Fernandinho, Witsel, Casemiro... Someone like Rice I still think would be huge for us. Have to keep in mind our midfield 2 need to be very solid to make up for Sancho/Rashford/Greenwood doing ~feck all defensively. Bruno does great work as a 10, Camavinga would be the perfect blend of creativity/ability and defensive work deeper, but we still need a true defensive mid IMO next to him as well. Something like this would have great balance defensively while providing the ball progression and creativity we need, and the goalscoring we want (long term, assuming Greenwood hits).
Greenwood
Rashford Bruno Sancho
Camavinga Rice
Shaw Maguire ??? Wan Bissaka
Henderson
Rashford Bruno Sancho
Camavinga Rice
Shaw Maguire ??? Wan Bissaka
Henderson
Rice??? No chance
I am going to be honest, I have not seen this fella play enough to make a judgement on him. I basically only watch French League by accident on BT Sport! Seen him in a nothing friendly for France. Looked good but how representative that was of him I have no idea.
Hear good things. If we are in for him I hope he solves the obvious issue we have linking the thirds through midfield.
Hear good things. If we are in for him I hope he solves the obvious issue we have linking the thirds through midfield.
No chance at getting him but I still feel like we need a defensive/sitting/safe midfielder. Not only to balance Camavinga if we were to get him in terms of letting Camavinga do his thing on the ball (while he is very good off it too), but more so to balance our wingers/attackers being very ineffective defensively and more just counter attacking threats. The biggest problem with McTominay and Fred IMO is they just aren't good enough at what they do, rather than the style of players (though that comes into play too). Both are careless and sloppy on the ball with their touch and passing. Neither provide enough progression or creativity with their passing, neither are all that effective at running with the ball, but neither is good at sitting in space. Camavinga would upgrade Fred at having that potential to be a very good passer and brilliant at moving forward with the ball (while Fred is merely just good at it, but not close to the top tier), while still being very active defensively and off the ball like Fred is (but benefit of being a lot bigger). Still need someone more solid/safe next to Fred just like we would with Camavinga though, because of how our wingers are.
Not too often going by the stats. 91% pass completion and 78% take on success rate in last years Champions League. Similar numbers in League 1, where his take on success was a bit lower but still good.
Agreed. Alongside a 'runner' like Fred (or Camavinga, if there's any truth in this), we ideally want someone who's a bit more positional, to screen the back 4, close off passing lanes, get involved in the build up play etc. Basically, Michael Carrick.
Are there any concrete links?
Are we pretending Camavinga is a finished product or he won't develop his style of play at whichever his next club is? Based on what I've read and seen it looks as though he could be moulded to fill numerous different roles in the midfield. I assume if Ole wanted him to be the sitting midfielder to allow Pogba to play in the double pivot and still have some freedom then he'd pitch that to Camavinga when signing him. By all accounts he is already quite good defensively so what would stop him further developing into a player that can be that pure CDM we're missing, whilst also giving us options thanks to his other skills?
I get the excitment of course and I wanna be too
It's just that I know that the next midfield signing has to be spot on otherwise we're basically standing still as a club.As a player, he can do it all and since he's so young, it's impossible to nail in a certain position. He can be strong, good runner with the ball and good eye for a pass. His game never screamed "genius" to me as it did with Pogba when he was younger (not that it matters tbh). The main issues are stamina and how can he can disappear from games but that's easily explained by his age. Just to be clear, I have nothing against him, I would love him if the circumstances allowed it.
That's as simple as that for me. He'd be an exciting project but not sure Man Utd needs one right in the middle of the park.
I suck at this tbh, I like Ndidi but Leicester already took us to the cleaners with Maguire.
OK, I get your take. I guess when you come from a nation where prodigious talent is routinely pumped out, you're going to be more measured in your assessments. I saw him the season before last and everything about his game screamed future great to me. I haven't seen much of the B2B version nor seen his bad games, so it's interesting to me to read posts like your initial ones as he looks like one of those who is nailed on to be worth a fortune sooner rather than later.
I think he's better than what we have in some aspects already, and paired with McTominay, could make more of an impression than Fred does because he's so much better with the ball and can actually shoot, but it's feasible that from his entourage's perspective, he's not leaving Rennes to go sit on benches or not be a starter at his next club. Buying him and loaning wouldn't be likely given how much he'd cost, so I think he'd need assurances before opting for us. Ideally, we'd get him and some cheap (of free), serviceable DM, but if the Varane stuff - on top of the Sancho signing - is true, the outlay for all that is not realistic unless we've got buyers or plans to move a massive amount of wasted wages from the books.
Has anyone called him a generational talent yet? I feel like he can't be that good unless it's been mentioned at least 25 times by people who have watched him less than 5 times.
Hes probably more black and blue than red and white
Meh, think he's nailed on to join the Arteta revolution.
made me chuckle hihi
Please stop making Michael Jackson sounds at me.
One year till end of contract. Not surprised if we're interested.
Passing is good, but he's in the 14th percentile in Europe for getting dispossessed and 7th percentile for miscontrols. Pogba is in the 2nd for both. Of course it comes as a byproduct of attempting dribbles compared to other midfielders who don't, but still, you don't want that player to necessarily be the last man back as when they lose it, there's nobody behind them to cover for that. Fred is 28/27th, McTominay 33rd/22nd percentile as others on United. The way I see it, is you need at least one of your 2 midfielders just being someone who doesn't get dispossessed often at all and is more safe in his role as they don't dribble. Someone that is press resistant but keeps it moving quickly and effectively so you don't get dumb turnovers and look vulnerable defensively. Fernandinho as an example is in the 89th percentile for being dispossessed and 99th for miscontrols, Witsel is 85/89, Jorginho is 52/88, Fabinho is 84/80, Kroos is 95/81... Just a stat that shows me that those players are very steady in there and are unlikely to have sloppy turnovers that result in them being caught out of position.
Ok that's in Euros I am talking about, hope that clears up.
Yet on the flip side if United ”Just paid the asking price” (which if I remember correctly United did and Bellingham chose BvB over us for first team opportunities) and paid him more, and he didn’t perform or turn out what people thought he may become. You’d bitch and moan that United got shafted, their negotiating tactics is poor, why we pay these kids so much money and that we’d be stuck with another deadwood for years like Jones.
United can never win on this forum.
United can never win on this forum.
I have a feeling it’ll turn out like Bellingham Haaland and Upamecano. Spotting the right players and having solid intentions to develop the player into a star but not getting the deals done because we won’t pay what it takes and we can’t instantly guarantee as much football as teams in easier leagues. I also think there was something like 20k a week in the difference between what us and Dortmund were offering Bellingham. Gotta go early and aggressive if you want to save on the giant transfer fees later on.
Excited about the link but this will drag on and no doubt PSG will be pulling out all the stops. Their midfield needs a boost and this lad should be just the ticket. On the other hand we have Pogba here and a team he should be able to break into. It may also be interesting that he’s switched to an English agency this year. His new agent has also already rubbished talks of the player going to Arsenal
His elite skill right now is a mixture of being a good "active" defender (Fred style) but is also excellent at moving forward with the ball and taking players on, breaking through the midfield lines while carrying the ball. I'd say as players age they refine their elite skills and then work on rounding out their game to minimize their weak points so they don't matter. Camavinga will always likely be a midfielder who likes running with the ball as that's just his style. Which is fine. But he's not the guy who is just going to sit in the holding position as you then miss out on his biggest asset already. You can't have a player sit and hold position and at the same time be a runner with the ball, as they'll just vacate the middle as a result of their play and you want that player to just stay in the middle.
If you have Camavinga next to Pogba as the double pivot, you'll just have a midfield that takes too many risks on the ball with nobody behind them. Just doesn't work IMO. Pogba and Camavinga with Kante sweeping in for France would work excellently with balance IMO, but not with Bruno and definitely not with Rashford and Sancho on the wings. We need a defensive guy next to Camavinga to really hold the midfield and make up for Rashford and Sancho not doing much defensively.
Has everyone lost all hope of ever offloading Jones?
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