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2020-21 Performances


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AKDevil

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There’s just a general unreliability. Whether it’s an injury, a mistake, a bit of ill-discipline (the red card in Europa League might be the only one but it sticks in head and was needless), or even something not actually his fault (the pen v Bournemouth) ... just a sense that it’s always him. So much to work with though, so always worth persisting with. A bit of consistency re selection will help iron out some of the above.
 

Loon

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He has a mistake in him, but so does Lindelof. He has the speed to complement Maguire. Just keeps banging his bloody head.
 

Irrational.

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He reminds me a bit of Phil Jones - he loves throwing himself into tackles and challenges, and often can come off worse.

He's got all the other attributes to be a top class defender - if he cuts out the crazy stuff he could be a hell of a partner for Maguire.
 

Dante

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When fit I'd pick Bailly over Lindelof every time.
Yeah, I think I would too on balance.

Bailly is just as poor as Lindelof in the air, so you wouldn't be gaining or losing anything there. And in most other areas, Bailly is far superior. But the one thing that worries me is how rash he can be at coming out of defence to make challenges. That's the kind of thing that usually improves with experience, so we'll have to wait and see if the penny has dropped.

I don't think you can deny that Bailly's ceiling is a lot higher than Lindelof's. He just has to make the most of it now that he's being given a chance.
 

Adam-Utd

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He has a mistake in him, but so does Lindelof. He has the speed to complement Maguire. Just keeps banging his bloody head.
To be fair that was Maguires fault, he headed Bailly instead of the ball :lol:


Yeah, I think I would too on balance.

Bailly is just as poor as Lindelof in the air, so you wouldn't be gaining or losing anything there. And in most other areas, Bailly is far superior. But the one thing that worries me is how rash he can be at coming out of defence to make challenges. That's the kind of thing that usually improves with experience, so we'll have to wait and see if the penny has dropped.

I don't think you can deny that Bailly's ceiling is a lot higher than Lindelof's. He just has to make the most of it now that he's being given a chance.
That's how I see it too. Bailly has a 8-9 / 10 ceiling, but a 3-4 floor. Lindelof is a steady 6 most games, but has a floor of 3-4 also.

It really depends how long we can keep Bailly at his top level and not get injured or sent off. I think by now though Lindelof needs dropping as he's cost us in a few games in a row. Bailly deserves a chance.
 

Dante

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He reminds me a bit of Phil Jones - he loves throwing himself into tackles and challenges, and often can come off worse.

He's got all the other attributes to be a top class defender - if he cuts out the crazy stuff he could be a hell of a partner for Maguire.
Very similar players in a lot of ways, imo. Both on the pitch and in the physio room.

Jones is only 2 years older than Bailly. What's quite interesting is that Jones had actually played a lot more football in his career up to the age Bailly is now.

Jones had played 16,092 minutes to Bailly's 10,255 minutes at the same stage of their careers.

The most worrying thing is that Bailly has only had two seasons where he's played more than 1000 minutes in the league.
 
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Pogue Mahone

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Very similar players in a lot of ways, imo. Both on the pitch and in the physio room.

Jones is only 2 years older than Bailly. What's quite interesting is that Jones had actually played a lot more football in his career up to the age Bailly is now.

Jones has played 16,092 minutes to Bailly's 10,255 minutes at the same stage of their careers.

Bailly has only two seasons where he's played more than 1000 minutes in the league.
Eesh. Is this because his place in the team wasn’t guaranteed?

Or are we replacing Phil Jones with... someone that has an even worse injury record than him?
 

limerickcitykid

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Was he really fit for the whole of 18/19? He only had 8 starts all season in the league.
Of course he wasn’t. Transfermarkts injury page is shit, it misses loads of injuries

Just go look at the 18/19 thread and see there are pages and pages about him being injured at different times.
 

AngeloHenriquez

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Eesh. Is this because his place in the team wasn’t guaranteed?

Or are we replacing Phil Jones with... someone that has an even worse injury record than him?
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/eric-bailly/verletzungen/spieler/286384
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/phil-jones/verletzungen/spieler/117996

This shows you "Games Missed due to injury" which eliminates the selection possibility variable.

Since 16/17 when Bailly moved to us, he has missed 313 days or 62 games whereas Jones in the same time frame has only missed 214 days or 45 games so roughly 29% more time injured. His saving grace is that Phil Jones has had 6 injures and Bailly has had only 4 meaning he has had longer absences due to less frequent injuries, now if we look at what the injuries were:

Jones
3x Hamstring
1x Toe
1x Ill
1x Knee Injury

Bailly
1x Knee injury
1x Bruise
1x Ankle Injury
1x Knee Surgery

Jones clearly has an issue with hamstrings with half his injuries down to his hamstring, Bailly had bad injuries to ankle (21 games) and knee (8 games), his biggest time out was surgery on his knee which common sense suggests was never repaired fully (28 Games).

I see some real hard luck, not a worrying trend despite the numbers
 

limerickcitykid

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https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/eric-bailly/verletzungen/spieler/286384
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/phil-jones/verletzungen/spieler/117996

This shows you "Games Missed due to injury" which eliminates the selection possibility variable.

Since 16/17 when Bailly moved to us, he has missed 313 days or 62 games whereas Jones in the same time frame has only missed 214 days or 45 games so roughly 29% more time injured. His saving grace is that Phil Jones has had 6 injures and Bailly has had only 4 meaning he has had longer absences due to less frequent injuries, now if we look at what the injuries were:

Jones
3x Hamstring
1x Toe
1x Ill
1x Knee Injury

Bailly
1x Knee injury
1x Bruise
1x Ankle Injury
1x Knee Surgery

Jones clearly has an issue with hamstrings with half his injuries down to his hamstring, Bailly had bad injuries to ankle (21 games) and knee (8 games), his biggest time out was surgery on his knee which common sense suggests was never repaired fully (28 Games).

I see some real hard luck, not a worrying trend despite the numbers
Both of those are terribly inaccurate rendering any comparison completely meaningless.
 

Pogue Mahone

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https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/eric-bailly/verletzungen/spieler/286384
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/phil-jones/verletzungen/spieler/117996

This shows you "Games Missed due to injury" which eliminates the selection possibility variable.

Since 16/17 when Bailly moved to us, he has missed 313 days or 62 games whereas Jones in the same time frame has only missed 214 days or 45 games so roughly 29% more time injured. His saving grace is that Phil Jones has had 6 injures and Bailly has had only 4 meaning he has had longer absences due to less frequent injuries, now if we look at what the injuries were:

Jones
3x Hamstring
1x Toe
1x Ill
1x Knee Injury

Bailly
1x Knee injury
1x Bruise
1x Ankle Injury
1x Knee Surgery

Jones clearly has an issue with hamstrings with half his injuries down to his hamstring, Bailly had bad injuries to ankle (21 games) and knee (8 games), his biggest time out was surgery on his knee which common sense suggests was never repaired fully (28 Games).

I see some real hard luck, not a worrying trend despite the numbers
Those stats make grim reading. Watching the way they play it seems to me like the main reason they both get injured is because they’re so rash in the tackle. They’re an accident waiting to happen. Can’t believe we managed to find/sign a CB who is even more injury prone than Phil Jones. FFS.
 

limerickcitykid

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Whats inaccurate about them? Even if we just look at type of injury, the analysis has merit surely?
I mean just to begin with, it says Phil Jones wasn’t injured for the entirety of 19/20 or now in 20/21 which is quite obviously wrong as he’s literally injured right now. If you look through you’ll see further that it’s missing injuries for both of them.

Sure you can maybe take something from the type of injuries, but the merit of it is still incredibly limited when it’s missing large chunks of information.
 

AngeloHenriquez

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I mean just to begin with, it says Phil Jones wasn’t injured for the entirety of 19/20 or now in 20/21 which is quite obviously wrong as he’s literally injured right now. If you look through you’ll see further that it’s missing injuries for both of them.

Sure you can maybe take something from the type of injuries, but the merit of it is still incredibly limited when it’s missing large chunks of information.
Thanks for the information, I wasn't aware.Is there a better source you know of for stats in general?
 

limerickcitykid

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Thanks for the information, I wasn't aware.Is there a better source you know of for stats in general?
Unfortunately I’m not aware of one. I know PhysioRoom is decent for current injuries but I don’t think they have historical data for it. The only way would be to check transfermarkt for stretches of matches missed and then research yourself why they were missed.
 

Marcus

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I am happy to give him a run in the side. Just don't dive into challenges and don't get injured!
 

Pogue Mahone

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I mean just to begin with, it says Phil Jones wasn’t injured for the entirety of 19/20 or now in 20/21 which is quite obviously wrong as he’s literally injured right now. If you look through you’ll see further that it’s missing injuries for both of them.

Sure you can maybe take something from the type of injuries, but the merit of it is still incredibly limited when it’s missing large chunks of information.
I wonder if they only track injuries when a player gets injured during a match?
 

Stacks

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Very similar players in a lot of ways, imo. Both on the pitch and in the physio room.

Jones is only 2 years older than Bailly. What's quite interesting is that Jones had actually played a lot more football in his career up to the age Bailly is now.

Jones had played 16,092 minutes to Bailly's 10,255 minutes at the same stage of their careers.

The most worrying thing is that Bailly has only had two seasons where he's played more than 1000 minutes in the league.
If they play 50 games a season then that would be par
 

limerickcitykid

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I wonder if they only track injuries when a player gets injured during a match?
Just looked and the time Jones was injured by Smalling in England training in 2017 is down as a toe injury. So they’ve got injuries from matches and training.

I imagine they just track injuries for whichever they could be bothered to do research on and update. Otherwise they just leave it blank.
 

snowkarl

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The only reason people have this idea of Bailly as some sort of demi God defender who is great at intercepting, heading, dribbling, quickest ever, strong as Vidic Yada Yada is that he never plays. When he plays 2 or 3 games everyone will be throwing him under the bus for falling asleep 10 times a game, getting dragged out of position (last time he played VS Brighton he was a disaster) or heads the ball straight to the oppo.

He just barely ever plays so people have a totally distorted image of him in their heads. He isn't good enough. Lindelöf isn't bad he just isn't a quick and agile defender who is strong 1v1 so is constantly exposed next to Maguire in a high line.

Either way it doesn't matter because no way Bailly stays fit.
 

Chief123

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The only reason people have this idea of Bailly as some sort of demi God defender who is great at intercepting, heading, dribbling, quickest ever, strong as Vidic Yada Yada is that he never plays. When he plays 2 or 3 games everyone will be throwing him under the bus for falling asleep 10 times a game, getting dragged out of position (last time he played VS Brighton he was a disaster) or heads the ball straight to the oppo.

He just barely ever plays so people have a totally distorted image of him in their heads. He isn't good enough. Lindelöf isn't bad he just isn't a quick and agile defender who is strong 1v1 so is constantly exposed next to Maguire in a high line.

Either way it doesn't matter because no way Bailly stays fit.
I agree, I do really wish Bailly would come good but I just don’t see it with him anymore. He has everything needed physically but has a brain fart every game.

His last game at Brighton was an absolute horror show. He was all over the place and ended up giving a penalty for an absolutely reckless challenge.

His opportunities to prove his worth are fast running out.
 

Bebestation

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The only reason people have this idea of Bailly as some sort of demi God defender who is great at intercepting, heading, dribbling, quickest ever, strong as Vidic Yada Yada is that he never plays. When he plays 2 or 3 games everyone will be throwing him under the bus for falling asleep 10 times a game, getting dragged out of position (last time he played VS Brighton he was a disaster) or heads the ball straight to the oppo.

He just barely ever plays so people have a totally distorted image of him in their heads. He isn't good enough. Lindelöf isn't bad he just isn't a quick and agile defender who is strong 1v1 so is constantly exposed next to Maguire in a high line.

Either way it doesn't matter because no way Bailly stays fit.
No one thinks Bailly is amazing. If anyone had the opportunity to sell the guy and buy a new world class CB then it would happen in everyone's mind.

However, Bailly actually aims to defend with his small amount of abilities in comparison to Lindelof who doesn't want to get physically involved what so ever.

You compare Lindelof's mistakes - they are due to him not getting stuck in when its needed whilst Bailly's mistakes is him getting stuck in and the opposition beating him.

Maguire is our current undroppable CB - he also doesnt get stuck in too much and his positions needed to be covered when he is out of position when taking the ball out to make a pass from the back or even when he gets beaten by pure pace which happens all the time.

CB'S are never going to be perfect 100% against attacks, that's why they are played in partnership. The partnership usually have played in opposites of style because they can cover each others mistakes or weaknesses. We saw this with rio & Vidic, Smalling & Blind. Lindelof is not different to Maguire and cant help Maguires weaknesses. Bailly & Smalling can. That's why people talk about these Cb's not because they are legendary & world class.

We saw how Lindelof was with & without AWB's defensive ability to guard and get stuck in on the right flank. Just as he needs a player to guard his weakness then Maguire does as well. That's why we want to see Bailly or Smalling more.
 

yfoFC

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This is exactly whats wrong with this club. 4 years and still waiting. Get rid. Im sick of waiting for players to come good.
Thank the heavens you don't make the decisions at our club

With you in there, Fletcher would never have been given a chance..
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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How come? Tenacious, very physical and good at getting the ball outside of the penalty area
What about awareness what's around him, his composure, positioning as midfield & his decision making. You need to count them as well. If it's just pure ''being tenacious, very physical and good at getting the ball outside of the penalty area'' then you are just running around like headless chicken in midfield.
 

RDCR07

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If he can regain his form from his first season with us he is better than Maguire too. He should hands down start over the Iceman.
 

SAFMUTD

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Another season another year where everyone hopes he'll turn good. Im past it, he's more injury prone than Jones and while he can play excellent for 89 minutes you just know he's going to feck it up.
 

elmo

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Let's be honest, the only reason Lindelof is starting is because everyone else can't stay fit.

Bailey would be a much better option to partner Maguire if he ever manages to stay fit.
 

Himannv

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How come? Tenacious, very physical and good at getting the ball outside of the penalty area
DM requires a lot of positional awareness and you'd normally have a very clever player there who would know when to slot back in to defence and when to step out. Also involves finding room for himself to receive the ball from a CB, timing runs forward, and all of that. Not trying to bash Bailly here, but it's a terrible idea.
 

A-man

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I personally believe Ole wants Bailly to be a fit third choice and that there is no way he can trust Bailly to play 1-2 matches per week and 45 matches per season . Ole was probably overall happy with the good defensive result last year but understands he needs a third CB for rotation and as backup. If Lindelof get back to normal level after his horrrible last game I think he will play PL and Bailly will play cup games with long resting time in between.
 

reddevilchennai

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I personally believe Ole wants Bailly to be a fit third choice and that there is no way he can trust Bailly to play 1-2 matches per week and 45 matches per season . Ole was probably overall happy with the good defensive result last year but understands he needs a third CB for rotation and as backup. If Lindelof get back to normal level after his horrrible last game I think he will play PL and Bailly will play cup games with long resting time in between.
Last match level is Lindelof's normal level. He has time and time again cost us matches. In between anyone has anyone seen Ole's sex tape made my Lindelof.