I like him and while I do not understand some of his choices I think it’s very easy for us to comment if we don’t see the full picture/context. The situation which INEOS/Glazers are creating with this assessment while might turned out good it does not help as I would assume some players might smell the blood of the manager in danger. I just saw the amount of fixtures that we have and if he don't turn this around after having so much time he will be in serious trouble and it will be difficult to back him. I would love to see some more desire with spurs game with this free time.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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Rash and Hojlund only got tired in 90+2 minute and seconds before the final whistle? Against a team that’s 18th in League One we can’t give our youth more minutes and a more real chance to impress? This kind of stuff matters and affects manager’s trust by the players (senior and youth) as well as makes it clear for all the youngsters that we poach that United is not a place where you get a proper chance.
Could have sworn at one point we had our entire back 4, including AWB out injured, plus Casemiro, Mount, Eriksen, Hojlund (had that back issue) and Antony (that potential court case thing). And yes, Antony was a starter for us.
I’m just recalling this from memory anyway, so might be conflating timelines here.
edit: add Mainoo to the list as well - wouldn’t call him a starter back then but it was clear from pre season that he was going to be a big part of the plans/squad
Mid-table….even though he finished top 3 last season? Hmmm.
Just wondering, do you really think that Mount, Eriksen and Antony would be first choice if all fit? Considering there is also Bruno that would be four players for three positions (CM, AM, RW), maybe only two. So at least one of these injured would be benched anyway. Except you believe Bruno would not be a starter, but that would surprise me.
So Garnacho and Mainoo haven't been given chances to impress? Amad will likely get more minutes, Pellestri has seen first team minutes, Hojlund starting striker. Dan Gore got minutes a few weeks ago. Kambwala has been introduced and had game time. How old do you want them to start getting minutes for the first team?
Of the many things ten Hag can be criticised for I don't think this is one.
Spurs have not had worse injuries than us. We've fielded a record number of center backs mostly by force. We had extended periods of no left back, and we had our first choice DM out. Our striker out for periods, our right winger out for extended periods.
. They certainly haven't had worse injuries than us.
Of course they have. Spurs have been playing full backs in central defense because they literally have no center halves left, their DM has also been out all season, they have missed their best midfielder and key playmaker has been out for the last two months and their only real striker (who isn’t even a striker) was out for almost three months. It’s basically the same injuries as us (defenders and first choice DM) but also equivalent of having Bruno and Hojlund out (instead of Shaw as their LBs have been OK to go).
And they obviously have coped massively better than us with all of that as they have actually been good all season, in almost all games they have played. So it is possible to lose many of your players, have to field backups, on top of being brand new to the league and losing your best player in preseason, and not have your team be embarrassingly bad and bland week in week out.
The ‘worst injury crisis in modern football history’ excuse is really starting to be annoying. If there is one thing he is good at is shifting the blame from himself and I find it surprising that so many of our fans buy it. We will have players back soon, continue to play this awful football just as we did to start the season with them healthy, and then the blame will shift to poor fitness or ‘these fecking players letting him down on purpose’. It’s never him, it’s always circumstances.
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Goldbridge has been tearing up on this point so expect some to echo the same. I disagree with this too and it reminds me of how us fans were tearing Ole up for Van De Beek, Mata etc.
Pellistri has been too timid and weak at times when given opportunities, Amad mostly injured and needed external development, Reguilon defensively porous, Hannibal looks like deer in headlights..
McT was obviously played last night because of the injury crisis and only had a run in the team because we need goals and he did well enough n that 2 or 3 game run.
That said, ETH has displayed many flaws such as his tactical stubbornness, poor preseason, mediocre transfers and so on.
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I kind of agree with this, more chances should be given at times when it is possible.
On the other hand, Ten Hag doesn’t trust this squad to see out a 2-0 lead even against Wigan, that’s how bad things have been.
Players that are good enough are in the team: Mainoo, Garnacho. Pellistri is getting chances. I guess Hag isn’t convinced by Hannibal yet.
Taking the Wigan game in isolation, it was odd. There was absolutely no point in taking players off with 2 minutes to go. These players were tired of course but they could easily hang on for the remaining 2 minutes.
The game was over, there was no need to slow down the game or waste time to ride out a storm from Wigan.
It also felt like a perfect time to give Pellistri and Hannibal some much needed minutes. Even if he doesn`t rate them, give them a chance to show what they can do, maybe it will give them more chances to secure a good move away.
Rashford and McTominay were very replaceable last night. A change at 65-70 minutes instead of +90 would have made more sense in this game imo.
What? They have no center backs left? Dier has had ''injuries'' but hes been available in some games theyve opted to miss him out in. In the games theyve gone a run in, theyve had one or both of their first choice center backs. We've had neither in the majority of our games.
Their DM has been out all season? Where's that? Bissouma is their best midfielder and he's started almost 2x more PL games than Casemiro. Maddison and VDV are literally their only 2 long term key absentees, and you can maybe have a shout for Bentacur, that's literally it.
We've had Shaw out for big chunks, Malacia as his back up out, we even had games where Regulon was out on top. We had AWB injured at the start of the season (he's our first choice right back), our VDV equivalent in Licha out all year and Varane gets injured almost every other game. Then Maguire out for weeks on the go, Eriksen out for weeks on the go, Casemiro out for months on the go, Mount out for months on the go, Hojlund and Amrabat joining injured and so a right winger crisis for other factors.
We've had multuple games where we couldnt pick a single first choice player in our starting back 4, whilst also losing our first choice DM and having no striker or no natural right winger.
It's outrageous to claim their injuries have been worse
Nah, Pellistri will NOT make it as a starter at manutd. You can bookmark this but he has too many defiencies in his game to make it. He just isnt good enough.
Hannibal changed his game into this work horse lifestyle and ditched his skills just so that he could play. Sadly the new Hannibal also cant make it long term...its actually surprising how much his actual talent has gone down in exchange for this work hard mindset. We have never seen the real Hannibal
The excuses run out if we're not miles better with the players returning this month.
Will need title winning form to salvage top 4 in the league.
Will need title winning form to salvage top 4 in the league.
Yup and I guess that's the only fun bit to follow for the rest of the season. My intuition tells me we will have a deep FA Cup run and be thereabouts for top 4. I'm betting we'll get there and I haven't been far off this season about our comebacks.
I agree we haven't had 9-10 of our first xi out, however the attack hasn't been available most of the season as a whole building chemistry.
Antony, Rashford, Hojlund, Garnacho, Sancho, Martial have all been unfit, injured, unwell or barred from play for various spells throughout the campaign.
Then in midfield, Mainoo, Eriksen, Casemiro, Mount.
Defence Dalot, AWB, Shaw, Reguilon, Malacia, Martinez, Varane, Maguire.
The first xi fact may have been completely wrong, but there was a period of games where we had 11 out of our first team SQUAD out. When you look at that list of players out during this campaign I sympathise a bit. There have been games this season we have had to field first xi that are weaker on paper than what Ole and Rangnick had to field during that horror show of a season, and the league is arguably stronger now than then.
Not sure what your point is, bud, or why it's veering into the territory of semantics now? Someone said Spurs' injury crisis was worse than ours. I said, i would be interested to see the stats because from memory (i.e. it's not a serious/factual statistical discussion, it is simply from my recollection which could be wrong), we were missing 9-10 first team/starting players at some point during this season....?
And yes, there is every bit of evidence that suggests Casemiro, Mount and Bruno would probably have started the season as our first choice mid, with Antony out wide right? Do you disagree? Antony started the season as first choice - he was then not available for selection. Along with many others.
So how does this counter the point that i was making? In fact, best case, no one knew who our starting mid was going to be but from recollection we were missing Mainoo, Casemiro, Eriksen and Mount at some point. Is that false? And Bruno is basically our bona fide starter and Captain - i never once said he wasn't or wouldn't fit into the side. It was simply a throwaway comment where i would have been interested to gauge whether or not Spurs/Newcastle did indeed suffer a bigger crisis then us.
Romero is out and van de Ven has been out for a while. Dier is being sold, he hasn't been decent in years. So yeah, they don't really have any healthy center halves that they can use.What? They have no center backs left? Dier has had ''injuries'' but hes been available in some games theyve opted to miss him out in. In the games theyve gone a run in, theyve had one or both of their first choice center backs. We've had neither in the majority of our games.
Their DM has been out all season? Where's that? Bissouma is their best midfielder and he's started almost 2x more PL games than Casemiro. Maddison and VDV are literally their only 2 long term key absentees, and you can maybe have a shout for Bentacur, that's literally it.
We've had Shaw out for big chunks, Malacia as his back up out, we even had games where Regulon was out on top. We had AWB injured at the start of the season (he's our first choice right back), our VDV equivalent in Licha out all year and Varane gets injured almost every other game. Then Maguire out for weeks on the go, Eriksen out for weeks on the go, Casemiro out for months on the go, Mount out for months on the go, Hojlund and Amrabat joining injured and so a right winger crisis for other factors.
We've had multuple games where we couldnt pick a single first choice player in our starting back 4, whilst also losing our first choice DM and having no striker or no natural right winger.
It's outrageous to claim their injuries have been worse
Bentacur is their main defensive midfielder and was excellent for them when healthy. He'd play next to Bissouma if healthy.
Richarlison and Maddison are obviously both big misses in their attack too.They will also now lose Bissouma, Son and Sarr for a month but I don't expect them to collapse either.
Solomon, Sessegnon and Perisic have been out with long term injuries too, they are more of squad players though.
They've quite obviously had it tougher so far (unless you are a massive ETH ******* and have managed to convince yourself that we have indeed had the worst injury crisis in the history of football which is the only reason why we have been so embarrassingly poor). We have basically missed Martinez, Shaw, Casemiro and a bunch of squad players for a handful of games. We have had all our key offensive players available almost all the time and even with injuries we've usually been able to field a pretty decent defensive line up - though not when The Disciplinarian fell out with the best defender in our team and decided to play Evans instead.
Antony was club's decision and Sancho was ETH's choice. Rashford has missed like two games, Hojlund has hardly missed any time since his first game and Garnacho has been available virtually all season too. Martial is not even a factor and it was known before.
Yeah, something weird's happening here whereby my memory also tells me we've been decimated with injuries - almost the entire first half of the season, but others see it a bit differently, to say the least. Is my mind playing tricks on me as i approach the big 4...0?What? They have no center backs left? Dier has had ''injuries'' but hes been available in some games theyve opted to miss him out in. In the games theyve gone a run in, theyve had one or both of their first choice center backs. We've had neither in the majority of our games.
Their DM has been out all season? Where's that? Bissouma is their best midfielder and he's started almost 2x more PL games than Casemiro. Maddison and VDV are literally their only 2 long term key absentees, and you can maybe have a shout for Bentacur, that's literally it.
We've had Shaw out for big chunks, Malacia as his back up out, we even had games where Regulon was out on top. We had AWB injured at the start of the season (he's our first choice right back), our VDV equivalent in Licha out all year and Varane gets injured almost every other game. Then Maguire out for weeks on the go, Eriksen out for weeks on the go, Casemiro out for months on the go, Mount out for months on the go, Hojlund and Amrabat joining injured and so a right winger crisis for other factors.
We've had multuple games where we couldnt pick a single first choice player in our starting back 4, whilst also losing our first choice DM and having no striker or no natural right winger.
It's outrageous to claim their injuries have been worse
We had basically all of them available to start the season and guess what, we were also terrible.
It won't change anything though, his cultists will still quote the two players being out, even if it's Martial and a youngster that we haven't heard of, as the reason why ETH cannot compete amidst the worst injury crisis in the history of football, and if that fails then it will just become 'poor fitness after lengthy injury' or whatever. Once you've started with excuses you can't stop.
Yeah I'm waiting for the 'Casemiro is a slow starter' thing again. I really don't think Martinez will transform us like people think either, Evans has played pretty well.
I do agree, but if that's the first team than you can't list Eriksen as a starter, so one starter less injured than you listed. That was actually all I meant.
Our first team is Onana - AWB/Dalot, Varane/Lindelof, Martinez, Shaw - Casemiro, Mount/Eriksen/McTominay - Rashford/Garnacho, Bruno, Antony - Hojlund
Where I have more than 1 player, there's no real clarity on who the manager's preference is. Midfield in particular is quite bleak as we could perhaps even add Mainoo and Amrabat next to Casemiro.
Scrolling through the list of games so far, I think there have been maybe 4-5 instances where we were not able to field 8 or more of them so far in the league and we had virtually all of them available for the first 5-6 games.
Yeah, i think we're on the same page here and i didn't mean my post in a way to defend EtH (i'm trying to remain objective but after Forest i changed my vote to EtH out). I think there's a middle ground somewhere. Seems like some might be trying to overblown the injury crisis and others trying to downplay it, whilst trying to exaggerate those of other teams - like Spurs, as an example. But alas, i was really just curious to see the stats of how Spurs' injury crisis compared to ours. But clearly it's a sensitive topic for some
Also, agreed re Eriksen.
Onana, Dalot, Varane, Martinez, Shaw, Casemiro, Mount, Bruno, Rashford, Hojlund, Antony would have been, what i would assume we headed into the season as, as a starting XI. The bolded ones are the ones who we have missed through injury. That's substantial but Hojlund, iirc, "only" missed something like 3-4 matches maybe? But clearly the entire defensive structure has been decimated.
Hojlund, Antony and Dalot haven’t missed much time. Varane either, he has largely been available but out of favor for a while there.Yeah, i think we're on the same page here and i didn't mean my post in a way to defend EtH (i'm trying to remain objective but after Forest i changed my vote to EtH out). I think there's a middle ground somewhere. Seems like some might be trying to overblown the injury crisis and others trying to downplay it, whilst trying to exaggerate those of other teams - like Spurs, as an example. But alas, i was really just curious to see the stats of how Spurs' injury crisis compared to ours. But clearly it's a sensitive topic for some
Also, agreed re Eriksen.
Onana, Dalot, Varane, Martinez, Shaw, Casemiro, Mount, Bruno, Rashford, Hojlund, Antony would have been, what i would assume we headed into the season as, as a starting XI. The bolded ones are the ones who we have missed through injury. That's substantial but Hojlund, iirc, "only" missed something like 3-4 matches maybe? But clearly the entire defensive structure has been decimated.
It’s Casemiro, Shaw and Martinez most of all but as I pointed out they were all present at the beginning of season where all of the same flaws we are seeing today had already been present.
As I said, they have been able to call on one of their first choice CBs for an extended period of the season, and do have other CB to call upon but choose not to. That's not exactly the same. It's like me saying our striker sucks compared to Son so we're so unlucky.
Bentacur is not a defensive midfielder.
Richarlson is hot and cold for them, I've already addressed Maddison as a miss.
Right so now its open season to just count anyone. Mainoo was out for almost half the season, Amad was out for half the season, Evans was out for two spans for a few weeks. Wow, this is fun.
They haven't had it tougher, this is an absolute nonsensical and frankly bollocks argument. We've had our first choice DM, both first choice CBs and two first choice CMs, two first choice RWs and our LB out for extended periods. That's equivalent to them having many weeks without Porro or Udogie, Romero AND VDV, Bissouma, Sarr Bentacur whilst also missing say, Richarlson, Solomon and Johonson for 3 months, not 4 weeks, all at once.
When they actually had both center backs out, along with a couple other casualties their points return was atrocious. Difference is, they had that situation for a far shorter time than we have.
For how many games actually? Not trying to wum and it's a genuine question. Trying to get this so called initial no of games where our whole first 11 were fit ?
Their points return was only really 'atrocious' over that short span of 5 games where they lost to Chelsea, West Ham, Villa and Wolves and drew to City, and it was not injury driven at all (+ their performances were still good). They actually had Romero available in all those games.
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Up until Brighton game the only long term absentee was Shaw. Martinez went off after than, Casemiro kept playing until Brentford.
Yeah but the zodiac signs weren't in our favour then.
So have we. Varane has been available most of the time, only out of favor for a lot of it.
A non-offensive central midfielder then.
He's their only real striker. How does Hojlund being out for two weeks count as a major, huge miss yet an international striker who has actually scored Premier League goals doesn't?
We haven't really had both first choice CBs out for much (except when it was by ETH's choice), and one of our RWs being out was ETH's choice too.
They've basically had a similar issue to us (one CB + one first choice midfielder out), while also having their best playmaker and possibly second best player out for an extended period in Maddison, and also missing their only striker. You'd excuse ETH from any criticism for another 4 years if we had Bruno and Rashford out as well.
Hannibal has a high workrate and energy which is also a talent/asset. He hasn’t had the chance to show all his talent yet, because he rarely plays.
His decision making needs work, but other than that I really like him. I’m routing for him.
If Varane played, he'd be out again for weeks before long because that's literally what always happens. He's made of glass, Lindelof needed surgery, Maguires been out for a month, Licha out all season and Evans out for periods himself. This is rotated all season by the way. Not just in segments like for Romero and VDV. Romero in fact has played in 15 out of the 20 Premier League games for Spurs. Udogie for 17/20 Premier League games and Porro for 19/20 games. VDV is their only long term absentee.
Contrast that to ourselves, Maguire Varane and Lindelof have been featured in around half our Premier League games. Maguire's been out for around a month, and whilst Varane did have a brief spell in October of not playing in the first XI, he was sandwiched with injuries either side and generally can't play more than a few games before falling apart again.
And our first choice Left Back in Luke Shaw has only featured for us in 8(!) Premier League games out of 20. Whilst Licha Martinez has been in only 5 out of 20 premier league games. Thats less than half of the games that Spurs could call upon VDV, who is their longest term absentee.
This shows how much bollocks you are talking trying to compare Spur's defensive injuries to ours.
Son is their striker. fecking hell do you watch Spurs?
Right so if Dier is another CB dropped for Royal out of choice it's bad luck, but if Sancho is an unprofessional cnut who cant even wake up on time its ETH's choice. Good work mate.
Also, the CB injury comparison has been dismantled above.
No they haven't. I've explained how their defensive injuries aren't a patch on ours and I've also explained how bullshit your other comparisons are. You thought they had no striker outside of Richarlson and you thought that Bentacur was a DM. You were also under some weird pretence that they've survived without Romero for a while, or at least insinuated it.They've basically had a similar issue to us (one CB + one first choice midfielder out), while also having their best playmaker and possibly second best player out for an extended period in Maddison, and also missing their only striker. You'd excuse ETH from any criticism for another 4 years if we had Bruno and Rashford out as well.
We've missed Casemiro (their closest equivalent is probably Bissouma there), Shaw (Udogie), Antony/Sancho (Kulu), Eriksen / Mount (Sarr?), Malacia (Davies), Licha (VDV), Maguire/Varane (Romero) out for many weeks at a go, in many cases it's months overlapping. They've missed Udogie for a couple games, Bissouma for a couple games and Romero for a couple games. They were able to call upon Davies though, and they were able to call upon Sarr or Hojberg to sort their shit out. There was a period we needed emergency cover in central midfield and Amrabat had to slot in at left back because Reguilon was injured for 3-4 weeks too for fecksake
It's actually outstanding how you've compared their injuries to ours.
He is far, far too rash in his play and looks like a walking red card at times. I can see why the manager doesn't yet trust him.
You sure?
Yeah our injury crisis is pretty unprecedented. However I also get Sarni's point that we had most of our 1st team for the 1st couple of games and were horrible anyway. I personally chalk that down to a lack of tactical familiarity, dreadful preseason and suicidal tactics in some cases. Also Mason Mount.
Anyway it looks like we have a few more months t evaluate and validate our impressions of the season and we know how quickly things change in football. I find myself surprisingly optimistic as long as our injuries clear up and Mount is no longer a certain starter over Mainoo.
Anyway it looks like we have a few more months t evaluate and validate our impressions of the season and we know how quickly things change in football. I find myself surprisingly optimistic as long as our injuries clear up and Mount is no longer a certain starter over Mainoo.
Yes, Son was moved as the focal point quite early on when it was clear Richarlson was shite. The FPL data also doesn't lie
You might wanna check that now Richarlison is fit again.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/heu...ails/spieler/91845/wettbewerb/GB1/saison/2023
Not enough of a sample size to confirm, when the season started, Richarlson was up top and was shite, then Son moved centrally and Richarlson fell away, then needed surgery after.
Right now Richarlson has had a couple of games down the middle but we don't know if thats the new norm given his hot and cold form. Moreover, the debate was against an insinuation that he is Spurs only strike. And that is stone cold bollocks.