I think the truth is somewhere in between. Is Bruno a player a top team should rely on as their main creator? No, he plays to risky, the team will always lose control of matches. But nonetheless he is currently the best creator in the team. So I don't think he should go right now, but I do think that the team should evolve that he can slowly be phased out. But that's not the first but one of the last steps in evolving this team to a true dominant force.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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To counter #19, ETH has the highest loss percentage in the league. It's one or the other with him and it's the usual bollocks of cherry picking favourable stats.
That is true for this year, last season we had the most clean sheets, just saying.
You are better off with more wins and less draws. Although I expect the results will start to become more normal with many players returned from injury.
Yet this season we've had 7 clean sheets and conceded 33, Everton have more clean sheets than us this season, just saying.
That's true, but having more losses, more wins and much less draws is still worse. For example Mourinho managed United for 93 PL matches (50W 26D 17L) - which means 53.8% win percentage and 1.89 points per game. EtH is at 62 (36W 8D 18L) which is an impressive 58.1% win percentage and yet at 1.87 ppg a slightly worse average.
But a lot of the dross are his signings? Onana, Anthony & Mount have been dreadful. (Mount has been injured granted)
Thanks for pointing out that captain Obvious. And why is that?
I mean, we've had our first choice defence for about 6 games all season and for a chunk of it we haven't had more than 1-2 of our first choice defence.
Let’s say you are level with a team and there is 10 minutes left. If there is a 50-50 chance between winning or losing if you go full attack, should you do it? Or is it better to settle for the draw and hope for a lucky winner?
It is better to take the risk and go for the win.
We're shit defensively, like we were shit offensively. Imagine you'll cry about injuries, despite the only long term injuries that have occurred to our defense being Shaw and Martinez. We leaked a number of goals early in the season due to Onana and then due to us being defensively crap and repeating the same errors time and time again. Yet even with our first choice defense against Wolves we still managed to concede 3 goals. I'm sure you can find another excuse, obviously ignoring that these days it's a squad game and you should be able to cope with injuries and not fall to pieces.
Some are clearly happy to accept excuses and give the Manager a free pass for what has been a crap season.
Do you believe Maguire, Evans or Lindelöf to be of the level of Martinez?
Do you believe Reguilón or Amrabat or Lindelof at LB offer the same level as Shaw?
These are key players and I’d confidently say our best 2 defenders. So if you lose your best and have no other left footers who can pick a pass and deal with a press, and overlap and create etc…. Then yeah you’ll struggle.
Nobody is giving him a free pass it’s just adding context.
Personally I think Varane is a better defender than Shaw. We certainly lose something offensively when Shaws missing, but we had Regulion and barely used the lad and despite him not being the best defender he was semi decent going forward and certainly a better option than Amrabat/Lindelof.
Lets also not forget that Shaws injurys come from ETH rushing him back into the first eleven. On top of that ETH fell out with Varane and threw him on the bench for a number of games.
Context is great, i'm happy under the circumstances for him to continue till the Summer. But I hope that we assess our options and look to see if we can do better in the Summer. I don't see ETH as a long term solution here, he's part of the problem not a solution. You can disagree, we all are entitled to our opinions, but the over emphasis of our downfall this season being entirely due to injuries is rubbish.
Yeah, let's ignore the fact that United has probably been the team with the most different central pairings in the League, or a different back 4. You are conveniently leaving out the fact that Casemiro was injured as well. Or the fact that Maguire got injured when he just played himself into form. Won't mention Varane or Wan-Bisaka.
We see what happens when you take Rodri out of a well-oiled machine like City is, no wins in 5 I believe. I'm not defending the manager because of this, but you need to stop playing down the injury list like it's only 2 players and that this does not have an effect on the team.
Sigh.
Casemiro - He was in bad form pre injury. Remember the majority of the Caf wanted him flogged off in Winter calling him "past it".
Maguire - He's missed 6 games total this season from injury. Hardly an issue. CB is arguably our strongest position.
Varane - He's missed 4 games total this season from injury. He hasn't been injured, he's been on the naughty step for unknown reasons.
Wan Bissaka - He's missed 9 games from injury. He's also been benched in favour of Dalot this season. Again, many people on here complain about him.
The only real problem we've faced with injury this season has been at LB. That's been a problem for us with Shaw and Malacia (who I think is crap anyway) out injured. But as I said previously, Shaw was rushed back in December and should have been rotated a bit but ETH was desperate at that point. Understandable he used him in that way, but his mini break down was partly due to ETH. Let's also not forget that Shaw has always been injury prone. Hardly breaking news right?
Exactly, many of the changes in CB have been ETH seemingly not sure which pairing he wants. Also the lack of rotation last year and rushing players back has added to injury problems
Mostly agree with your comment but this point sticks out, Sancho's been a useless signing under every manager he played under. Ten Hag gave the lazy, feckless oaf 3 months off last year and was repaid by even worse performances. Sending him away was the right decision.
If it is 50-50 yes. But if it's 20-80, no. And that's more like how it goes for EtH
Yeah we either win or lose, we've more chance of seeing a unicorn than drawing it seems.
Actually we have had a decent amount of Fergie time winners.
This for me is why ETH has to go. I find it truly laughable how fans are willing to easily turn on players to defend such an average manager. Bruno has easily been our best player. Unlike ETH, he's proven himself. Most, if not almost all of our chances come from him. I remember the start of the 19/20 season and what we looked like before him, and its so sad that our fans don't truly appreciate the talented players in our squad. They never do. Bruno, Rashford, Casemiro, Licha, Varane and Shaw. For United, particularly Bruno and Rashford should not be questioned, but here we are, with another average manager who can't even get a system working after 18 months, talking about the dross he has to deal with. When these players are actually proven, unlike him. How can anyone argue for time for him and act like their in support of the club, when the argument is that we need to dump our best players. Isn't that hypocritical. He should get time despite not playing good football for most of his time here, yet players who have done well with different managers, in national teams and even saved him last season on individual skill should go, because us playing bad footballl is on them, rather than the guy who sees the whole plan and gives the instructions on the pitch.
For me, backing him on time and asking for transfers is truly hypocritical. Individual skill is the only reason we create any chances at this point. Individual skill is the only reason we haven't conceded more goals. His system has failed at every point this season. Yet he should stay??? Sounds like people are willing to throw our players under the bus again to justify not sacking a manager. Ironically, actually having a structure will make that impossible. No forward thinking team would sell Bruno to keep Ten Haag.
Limited in what context?
11 it took him the best part of 18 months to drop Antony from being one of the first names on the team sheet when fit.
Regarding Sancho, I'd commend ETH for taking a stand against unacceptable behavior. He said something very mild in a press conference, Sancho reacted publicly and ETH dealt with it from there. We don't know everything that has gone on, but I'd say it's a positive that he didn't back down to player power. Sancho has delivered nothing anyway, so he's quickly been forgotten.
Regarding Rashford, he has twice gotten it right after Rashford's mistakes. Last season he disciplined Rashford for being late, he came on to score the winner and laughed it off in the post-match interview. Case closed. Similar story this season after Rashford's bender. ETH managed to put a lid on it quite quickly in both cases. I think there is more going on with Rashford, but I don't necessarily think it's something ETH can control.
Neither are massive points in ETH's favor, but I imagine that's what he meant.
True. Nonetheless it is a statistical fact that EtH slightly increased the win percentage over his predecessors, but hugely increased the loss percentage.
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No it doesn't, the loses are well deserved losses, not the losses because we went for a winner and conceded last min goal.
Also i would prefer more wins and losses than less wins, more draws and less losses.
Draws are as good as losses, at least you can enjoy the win, but can never enjoy the draws. Draws are as shit and exhausting as losses, slightly less.
Chelsea have the most expensive squad in the world, the UEFA report only includes Chelsea's transfers up to 2022 which conveniently leaves off nearly £1bn in signings
This is a nice effort, color-coded, to show how much of absentees United has had VS the other teams. I hope this puts it in perspective for you. Otherwise, I can't help you see that United does have issues with injuries.
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Yeah I agree I didn't word that well...
It's more like EtH's approach to any match is this 50-50 going for a winner approach from the first minute on.
And I strongly disagree on equating draws and losses. A draw in the league gives a point and in a cup competition a draw and a win will always see you through, a win and a loss can go either way. You are however right about how enjoyable (or not) they usually are.
Calm down and I have been in Ten Hag out camp for while now and been critical of our quality of football Under him even before that
And my opinion of Bruno has nothing to do with Ten Hag staying or leaving I came to that conclusion Under Ole's Tenure itself infact Ten Hag making him captain was major red flag for me , Just like you have realised Ten Hag isn't Good enough eventually you would come to terms Bruno isn't either .
Physically weak, Unable to work well in congested areas due inability to dribble and evade press and lack of ball progression , erratic passing , questionable composure .
Seems we are on the same side with this one, pretty much agree with every response you've posted.
Overall feels like one side of the line is "ETH has been screwed by injuries and now we are mostly healthy look at the results" and the other side is "Injuries are part of every squad's season, that shouldn't excuse the completely horrific performances/tactics/ results for majority of the season so far. And many of those injuries have been a bit overblown besides Martinez and the LB's". Doubt either side will change their mind now.
What's their methodology here? Sum of wages + amortized transfer spend for the period?
No?
We have 50% win percentage (this is after our recent picking up in form)
We won 1 CL out of 6 under him.
Goal difference i think about zero and its mid feb.
Humiliations at home against thw likes of bournemouths and brightons.
And the 7-0
Anthony, Onana.
Bruh, the man is epitome of mediocrity.
You don't see it because you love the club. I too love the club, but giving him another ronaldo or another 400mil not going to make him SAF. Please snap out of it.
If Bruno is a limited player then most footballers are limited.
He's one of the most creative players in Europe over the last 5 years. Mad how underrated he is.
Well yes for sure, all those away game losses. Which is one of the things we are working on.
I can't take any post seriously that spells the name of one of our players wrong
And folks need to get over SAF, we will never have another manager like that and it's pointless to compare todays managers to him
None of what you quoted and responded to is incorrect though, and many of those qualities are vital for midfielders in today’s game. No other top team plays with such a limited on the ball- primary creator.
I wonder what the general feeling will be on here if we climb back to 4th or 5th, secure UCL with promising football and then INEOS decide to keep ETH.
After all these very encouraging appointments and the targeting of experienced, football people recently, will people be more willing to give ETH the benefit of doubt, if INEOS themselves place their trust in him to make it work under a proper footballing setup?
After all these very encouraging appointments and the targeting of experienced, football people recently, will people be more willing to give ETH the benefit of doubt, if INEOS themselves place their trust in him to make it work under a proper footballing setup?
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