Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
You clearly have zero standards. You might enjoy this hot potato stuff, but I don't.
Yeah that post is riddled with hyperbole.
They don't excede 3-4 in the league alone. In 28 league rounds the figure is worse of terms of match to match changes in the back 4 and strongest possible 8 and 6 pair pair in terms of lining up the stongest possible grouping.
I think there is some legitimate criticism for ten Hag though. I was hoping we’d see a revival once key players returned from injury but that hasn’t been the case. Granted the injury issues have continued, the football has still been poor and we give up far too many chances to inferior opposition. It’s all trending to be a lacklustre end to the season and the club opting for a fresh start with a new manager. I think that’s a fair outcome tbh.
No, it isn't. If Everton had anything about them, they would have scored 2 or 3 today. Definitely a case of the scoreline covering over the cracks. That's nothing new in recent weeks.
Rather I have ACTUAL standards. That's why I'm not straight up delusional. No one with ANY actual standards can have witnessed our collapse at home to Brighton this season for example. Compare it to this match and label THIS one the "attrocious stuff". Just a straight up deluded individual.
Call it what you like. Atrocious, awful, poor. Nothing enjoyable about that rubbish today. We can be thankful that Everton were thick as bricks inside their own penalty area and couldn't finish their dinner in ours.
people are still arguing about ETH The ship already sailed, nothing new he's going to pull out of his sleeve. If he knew or wanted he could have already done it.
Its like waiting for Antony to turn into Robben. It won't happen.
Hold up....They literally had an XG of less than 1.5. Over 90 minutes.
1.17 at by half time with less of the ball..
A miserable 0.09 after second half when they had more of the ball.
How on earth does that translate to " Two or three goals if they had anything about them"?
The only thing I have to be thankful for is am not as willfully miserable as you are.
Thats such bollocks
why are you just rewriting the game and trying to sway things to Everton just because we won 2-0 with chances of our own?A combination of poor finishing and a poor final ball. We were gifting them possession at will, particularly in the first half. A decent side would have punished us for that and the huge space we afforded them.
I'd love to be positive about a United performance, but there's nothing from that you can get any enjoyment from. Result aside.
We won a couple of pens. Fair play to Garnacho. Poor defending from them. As a performance, nowhere near good enough.Thats such bollocks
From threatening play. There were other moments where we threatened too. Had we not got an early goal you are also assuming we wouldn't have ramped up the urgency in our own play.
Two goals before the first half enabled us to see the game through and just be professional and organised. Its fair enough given the circumstances.
It was another one of those 50/50 shootouts against a below average team. We play a brand of football that isn't conducive to winning. We didn't get away with it against Fulham, but we did today. We should be controlling games against such opposition, not merely hoping that we take our chances and they miss theirs.
No. I’m saying a large part of our squad are simply not good enough to push for a title, and the club is no longer in a fit state to support this ambition.
Jose said getting 2nd at United was his best achievement.
Solskjaer has said he was trying to see if we were ready to ‘take the next step’ in his final season and he came unstuck, having finished 3rd and 2nd in his full seasons. Erik has taken 3rd and a trophy in his first season, but suddenly isn’t good enough and it’s all his fault?
There’s a pattern here, and it isn’t the managers.
Define controlling? 2-0 up with even possession and reducing them to pot shots seems OK to me.
‘United racked up 2.56xG compared to 1.48xG for Everton, however the home side's two penalties accounted for 1.56xG (0.78 apiece) meaning the Toffees actually had a better Expected Goals tally from open play’
So Everton had a better open play XG, more shots, better pass completion (81% to 83%) over 100 more passes in our half (172 to 289), nearly 100 more passes in the final 3rd (87 to 168), nearly double the amount of final 3rd entries (37 to 62) and over double the amount of penalty area entries (17 to 44).
And you think don’t think that’s atrocious? Against a team that are currently 16th in the league? You think that’s acceptable? Seriously?
Stats taken from theanalyst.com for reference
Controlling would equate to heavily dominating them in terms of possession and having more shots on goal.
As it was, we had 51% possession. 15 shots to their 23. 8 shots on target to their 6.
That is so far away from being good enough.
He had 8 of his preferred starting XI on the pitch:
Onana
Dalot Varane X X
Casemiro
Mainoo Bruno
Garnacho X Rashford
With a whole week on the training ground to prepare a positive, dominant, style of play vs an out of form Everton.
We shouldn’t be scraping past Everton, allowing 20+ shots. Also Everton had 49% possession today. Their season average is 35%! It’s unacceptable and unsustainable. With 8 first team players out of 11, the style of play shouldn’t be so fecking shit. It’s amateur.
It has been since the first game of the season vs Wolves (with his full 11). I’d actually say it’s a telling sign of our 12 month decline, as we dominated Everton this time last year. That was probably our last good performance overall. A whole year.
I disagree. Control is not limited to just possession.
Here is a truth no one here has been willing to admit. He can't. It's not that that he doesn't know to switch tactics, its that he doesn't have the ability to do so. We've all called him stubborn, but what if it's it him being stubborn, but rather him simply not having the ability, hence not even attempting to make the change.
Big teams dominate possession. We don't. It's as simple as that.
I do think that at this point the "injuries" thing is overplayed (well it has always been imo).
United is missing three starters - with the rest of injured players being squad players. Out of the three starters missing - two are part of the back 4. The effect in our play shouldn't be this accentuated/felt. I mean we do train as a team, right? Injuries are part of the game, and obviously our injury situation has fluctuated/changed through the course of the season, but I'd hope we would be playing better football as a team this deep into his tenure.
United is missing three starters - with the rest of injured players being squad players. Out of the three starters missing - two are part of the back 4. The effect in our play shouldn't be this accentuated/felt. I mean we do train as a team, right? Injuries are part of the game, and obviously our injury situation has fluctuated/changed through the course of the season, but I'd hope we would be playing better football as a team this deep into his tenure.
We haven't played like a big team in years. And that's not a slight on our manager but on the club for mishandling the recruitment structure for so many years, among other areas.
Hes had to rotate his starting back four way too many times, mostly out of obligation. That doesn't help build any chemistry whatsoever. Today he had no left back and no striker to pick from, alongside a center back who can't play up in a highline and a defensive midfielder who is frankly washed up now.
Its a matter of injuries, match rhythm and players not suited to a progressive style of play.
Yes, ten Hag should have been saved from himself. However, he's just as culpable because it was him who wanted this level of power and responsibility. Recruitment aside, ten Hag should be a good enough coach to implement a dominant style of play, rather than this eternal game of 'you have a go - we have a go'.
Actually he just wanted to be involved in strategy and have a veto. He never asked for sole leadership on transfers.
What he did not ask for is the director of football offering no viable alternatives to his suggestions, failing to negotiate deals at a better market value and being poor in handling a squad clear out.
The way we are setup most games is just odd performances are mostly crap, the results do pick up a bit with less injuries but performances are consistent in general. Having less games and more time to work on things in training hasn’t made blind bit of difference either.
It’s good we won but nothing ETH is sustainable or is going to lead to any success, still seems untenable he will be here next season.
It’s good we won but nothing ETH is sustainable or is going to lead to any success, still seems untenable he will be here next season.
Genuine and honest question - had we not had these injury issues, do you think we'd be comfortable top 4 and have a consistent style of play? Do you think this manager has the ability to be a success here long term?
Yes. And just to be clear, if he hadnt got top 4 with that I'd have no arguments against a sack.
Specifically on long termism, I don't know. But I am very firm in my opinion that he needs a chance under this structure to get a fair crack at being evaluated.
Excuse him for the club's recruitment if you wish. However, you cannot excuse him for our lack of control in games. We get blown away by the majority of sides in the top half and partake in 50/50 games against the other sides in the league.
As I've said many times, there are games I blame him for including Bournemouth, West Ham and Palace for example.
But there are many games where he's churning out results despite massive injuries. And you can't argue with the 2024 form.
You do realise Ten Hag had a hand in putting this squad together? He wasn't forced to sign Antony and Casemiro for mega money, or sign Mount for god knows what role when there were gaping holes in the squad.
Yes our recruitment structure should be better, bit a consequence of it not being better means some of the recruitment blame falls on the manager as he had such a big part to play in selecting which players were signed.
A decline is Dalot on the bench, Maguire red carded and causing all sorts of against goals. AWB being nowhere. McTominay useless. Shaw underperforming. What to do with Rashford.
As today under EtH:
Improved Dalot so much he is pivotal;
Improved Maguire into a game winning beast overcoming his shortcomings and pushing team above itself;
Shaw so important without him the whole left side is almost toothless;
Rashford scoring 30 a season;
McTominay won 2 or 3 big games for us and is top scorer;
Ole was completly lost with these guys.
And maybe they are currently EtHs first choice, for sure in the future there are other, better players projected on several positions.
Onana has come leaps and bounds, and it was his attacking qualities what got us ahead at city.
Antony maybe not producing a 86million winger but did put in a few good shifts the last few weeks.
Garnacho was a fringe young gun fighting with Pelistri, now top dog in our squad.
Hojlund coming good
Even Rashford starting to become a team player again, doing some magic when needed.
That is all part of an upwards trajectory that is because of EtH, not despite.
I don't give 2 shits about shots against, it can be 250 thousand. Most of them were harmless. We created chances today, could be up 4 nil and actualy in many games, even the ones we lose, we get ahead in the first 10 minutes a lot of times. Much, much more than the years of bore, sideway passing under LvG, or the wait for 1-0 Jose, and the Ole lost it tactics. We might not be the end product but vs the Ole display this is miles, miles better, looks better and we are attacking and fighting.
And decline? Last season, the fantastic first EtH, way overproducing season ending 3rd with 75 pts. After 28 games we had 53 points.
Today, after this injury ravaged season with games like today when we have no left back or even a striker, we are 47 points after 28 played. Just 6 points off that mark.
We, today march 9 2024 with 8 weeks left in the PL schedule, are P6, above West Ham who sat top 6 for the first half this season, above Newcastle, above Chelsea, above Brighton and their God de Zerbi, above Fulham and above Wolves who all have no doubt heavenly low numbers in shots against and fantastic GD numbers. Despite all that, we still sit firmly on top of all them after 28 played.
We get back a big bunch of our usual stars like Martinez, we get back our in form striker and I say lets see how these nice april games are going to come by. But lets not start crying over insignificant stats and call for someones head when the main stat: are we winning enough? is more than adequate given the position we are in squad wise, all the sale shenanigans, etc. etc.
Bring on Spurs, bring on Arsenal, bring on Chelsea and bring on Eddie Howe and his bunch. And next week: bring on LFC. Lets do this!
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Watching Arsenal and we seem to set up much the same way they do. They press and recycle the ball much better than we do, and are less direct on counters but appear as structurally vulnerable in my view. Honestly think that with better players EtH’s kamikaze tactics would be a lot more effective.
Then why has EVERY manager in charge of then been reoearedly panned for results you are suddenly trying to praise?
This badly assembled squad of players have gone through the same boom bust cycle every 1.5 - 2 seasons for 8 years running. It matters not who has managed them.
Because it so factually is!
Burnley and Luton do not have the disparities in player profiles we have in every department in our squad. Till you learn to seperate names on paper from players in actuality. It will remain impossible for you to understand why.
Case in point. There is NOTHING similar in playing profile between Casemiro, Mainoo and Amarabat. And by "profile" I mean "playing style operating in a given designated position/role". Casemiro is a ball winning, attack minded anchor who's strength isn't isn't recycling possesiokln possesio but breaking lines for transitions. Mainno is a two way creative play maker with postional and defensive nouse plus pace. Amrabat is agressive ball winner who can passs and recycle better thsn Casemiro but not at Mainoo's level
That's the same for Ericksen (slow controling playmaker, can't defend) , Mctominay (ball carring attacker who is poor in build up) and Mount ( solid ball carrying passer, a good defender not a controlling play maker) . They are polar opposites in style.
United's back uls are not only inferior to starters. They are almost nothing like the starers!
Compare that to Burnley. Noah Massengo and Cork are not polar opposites in style and apllocation. Brownhill and Cullen are not. Neither are Sander Berge, and Aaron Ramsey. The ONLY difference comes in the fact the starters ate superior players ri the second choice ones. Not completely opposite on top of bring back up.
Putting that in mind which of the two squads do you think suffers more disruption in pairing similarity if injuries hit and back ups have to play?
Yes, the United players have bigger talent. However the disparity between their profiles is bound to cause far greater disruption. A look at United thus far this season is a literal tsunami of evidence. Not for the first time under our bosses post LVG.
Id like my managers to listen to the experts around them. You just come across really contrarian. Anything he says or does any context we get provided it’s all just another thing to moan about with you.
If anyone with half a brain cell could tell us this then why is Ten Hag being told by the medical department responsible for those players that they’ll be good to go? It’s not like this would be a one time discussion either. It would be consistent updates on their progress. He has to trust that the people around him have those half brain cells when it comes to medical issues because last I checked it wasn’t Dr Hag in the dug out.
I 100% agree that playing Shaw after that knock was really risky. And if medical staff have said he’s ok to play then thats a worry.
I do think Ten Hag was under immense pressure to play him to have some semblance of a left sided defence but it hasn’t paid off.