Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

[phelans shorts]

Someone posted a damning verdict on Murtough on what he has achieved so far, youth, women team etc. My major concern now is that we have the right manager but not the right setup, facilities, people in charge

I wouldn’t pay any attention to devilish tbh, he’s probably still adamant that Nathan Delfuoneso should win the balon d’or.

Analytics like Scamacca. 23 years old, good physically. Sassuolo are playing possession football and Scamacca works hard out of possession, so he'd fit the bill.

Spoiler: Goals, shots, xG stuff

Spoiler: defensive numbers, like pressures

I’m far from an expert but isn’t he also an absolute giant and mobile.Those stats show that he gets about a bit but I’m certain he’s also pushing McTominay/Pogba height if not taller

 

[Bebestation]

Has Ten Hag ever used a false 9?

I think he has but can't remember ( was it tadic?)

It's a very basic thing now a days - but I feel like it's an easy way to judge a managers more modernised ability of football if they are able to use it well. (Pep, Klopp, Tuchel etc have done well with it than always use a more traditional striker like managers like Jose had to always use in Lukaku at United and Abraham at Roma).

 

[AndySmith1990]

Listening to the initial comments, its sounds like LVG re-visited. the level of details almost made the players' heads explode. Instead of praising them, LVG would go into detail on how they should improve themselves by correcting this mistake or that. The players felt that they were always under a microscope.

I worry that with our Gen Z players, I don't know if they can handle such levels of 'criticism' as opposed to 'analysis'.

Players at other clubs seem to cope just fine with it, which makes the solution obvious. Find better players

 

[Andre Kagawa]

His stats with Ajax are rather insane. If he can achieve even half of that with us we're set.

 

[Lanesy]

Save us Erik!

 

[Elcabron]

Do we qualify for a new manager bounce now for the next few games? I'm unclear of FA regulations on this.

 

[Andre Kagawa]

Do we qualify for a new manager bounce now for the next few games? I'm unclear of FA regulations on this.

That requires players that actually care in the first place, so no.

 

[pascell]

His stats with Ajax are rather insane. If he can achieve even half of that with us we're set.

I'd happily say if he's backed properly behind the scenes and he implements his style of play successfully, he'll be our most successful manager post SAF and that's including PL and CL trophies.

 

[Ranchero]

Not sure Peter Bosz has anything to do with ETH. Sure they both managed Ajax but if you can't see the difference in their levels....

Whether ETH is a success or failure, I am just glad we are giving a chance to an upcoming manager who has a distinct style of play

At least you accept Ten Hag is an up and coming manager. John Murtough, United's football director describes him as 'one of the most exciting and successful coaches in Europe'. He isn't. He has zero experience in any top world league. Any success he has had is in the Eredivisie which is a weak league. It is a big gamble. This is not a Pep before he went to City or a Klopp before Liverpool or a Tuchel before Chelsea or Conte before Spurs ...who had a body of success on top world leagues.

It is worrying that Murtough, whose CV for doing the job at United has also been questioned, would so overegg the track record of Ten Hag to the point we are already giving him a status that he just doesnt have.

 

[Ranchero]

Ajax with Ten Hag in 4 full seasons: 1st place 4 times, 2 cup wins, twice past group stage in the CL.

Ajax hadn't won the league for 4 seasons before ETH. Ajax hadn't reached the knockout stage of the CL since 05/06. Ajax hadn't won the league and cup double since 2001/02. Ajax hadn't won the league and reached the knockout stage of the CL since LvG was there in the mid 90's. Ajax have only ever shown a similar level of dominance in the league with points, goals, performances, success with their greatest ever managers (Cruyff, Michels, etc). Ajax have averaged 3 league goals per game since he joined, or an average of over 100 goals per season for them, over a 4 year period. They passed 100 goals in the league in 09/10 with Suarez before he went to Liverpool, but the last time they regularly had a team up there was LvG's great teams and then the early 80's team.

Its really not a list comparable to other managers who achieved success and then failed elsewhere. ETH has shown dominance across ever competition, playing a great style of football, has them performing as much more than the sum of their parts, going toe to toe and outplaying pretty much any team they play even if they are a much wealthier side, and all this every year despite constantly losing his best players, so needing to adapt. They still play with the same ideas, just with adjustments to different set of players. They'll dominate Madrid and Juve, lose De Ligt and De Jong, and then go out and outplay Chelsea away the following year and only get unlucky with referee decisions. He's a fantastic coach, but of course there is always unknowns in how he will adapt to the prem. We'll see. But it's the best possible appointment.

Lots of words. But no key experience in any top world league unlike Klopp before he went to Liverpool, Pep before City. Tuchel before Chelsea, Conte before Spurs.

Let's get real and not get all blinded by hope...It is a massive gamble as was Ole.

 

[Revaulx]

When do we ever wrap up our signings quick? We always drag it on up until near the end of the window.

It’s not unreasonable to expect things have changed. Ralf still on board, Murtough with actual power, analytics-based scouting and no Woodward should make the process more streamlined as well as more robust. Even if there are still delays getting sign-off from Florida, the main parts should involve a good deal more focus and less dithering.

 

[SirAnderson]

interesting: your determination of age isn’t through a measure im aware of, and it’s irrelevant to the topic on discussion.

would you care to share how you used a tested measure to determine age or would you prefer to discuss ETH.

Mmmmkay... Not through a measure you aware of. Duly noted.

Neither, as you were. Cheerio.

 

[Elcabron]

At least you accept Ten Hag is an up and coming manager. John Murtough, United's football director describes him as 'one of the most exciting and successful coaches in Europe'. He isn't. He has zero experience in any top world league. Any success he has had is in the Eredivisie which is a weak league. It is a big gamble. This is not a Pep before he went to City or a Klopp before Liverpool or a Tuchel before Chelsea or Conte before Spurs ...who had a body of success on top world leagues.

It is worrying that Murtough, whose CV for doing the job at United has also been questioned, would so overegg the track record of Ten Hag to the point we are already giving him a status that he just doesnt have.

Very good point and exactly right. He is a gamble, let's hope it pays off. Even the up and coming part is somewhat suspect given he is older than Pep but we shouldn't be ageist about it either.

 

[moses]

Listening to the initial comments, its sounds like LVG re-visited. the level of details almost made the players' heads explode. Instead of praising them, LVG would go into detail on how they should improve themselves by correcting this mistake or that. The players felt that they were always under a microscope.

I worry that with our Gen Z players, I don't know if they can handle such levels of 'criticism' as opposed to 'analysis'.

I listened to another one that sounded even more like that.

 

[Revaulx]

Good post. Unfortunately, people just don't wait 3 years anymore. Its the social media generation. Instant gratification and the slightest mistake in 18months time and everyone will be calling him a fraud.

1. It’ll only be an idiotic minority. People who still have an inexplicable longing for Jose will be a major constituent.
2. It’ll be a hell of a lot less than 18 months

 

[RedIan]

At least you accept Ten Hag is an up and coming manager. John Murtough, United's football director describes him as 'one of the most exciting and successful coaches in Europe'. He isn't. He has zero experience in any top world league. Any success he has had is in the Eredivisie which is a weak league. It is a big gamble. This is not a Pep before he went to City or a Klopp before Liverpool or a Tuchel before Chelsea or Conte before Spurs ...who had a body of success on top world leagues.

It is worrying that Murtough, whose CV for doing the job at United has also been questioned, would so overegg the track record of Ten Hag to the point we are already giving him a status that he just doesnt have.

SAF had only managed in Scotland, hardly an elite league up there either, he was a gamble…. The rest is history.

we have tried proven managers who have managed at the very top, LVG and JM and both ultimately flopped here bringing in dull boring football.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Lots of words. But no key experience in any top world league unlike Klopp before he went to Liverpool, Pep before City. Tuchel before Chelsea, Conte before Spurs.

Let's get real and not get all blinded by hope...It is a massive gamble as was Ole.

Isn't the champions league the most elite competition in football?

 

[Ranchero]

Very good point and exactly right. He is a gamble, let's hope it pays off. Even the up and coming part is somewhat suspect given he is older than Pep but we shouldn't be ageist about it either.

No. You have to get the best man for the job. This is Man Utd. We should be on a level with your Barcelonas and your Bayerns but we are taking another massive gamble on a manager who is unproven in any major world league.

And expectations are getting lower and lower along with the standards at the club i have loved back to the days of Tommy Doc when we were in the second tier of English football. We had something about us even then, a glamour a fight a commitment. Not now.

All the talk is of zero expectations for Ten Hag next season. So are we really going to have another three years wasted. I hope not

 

[Revaulx]

What are the chances that his name used to be Erick and he changed it to fit in?

What? Like Ronald Dahl dropped the o in order to boost his sales?

 

[mitchmouse]

I am far from convinced ETH will bring us major success. Obviously, I hope so but he hasn't ever worked in a major league and certainly has no PL experience. That said, we acted too late to get a bigger name/personality and right now there is no one like that available. I admit, I quite wanted Conte: experience and firm hand. Enrique might well have got the job, in my opinion, had the World Cup been this summer rather than in the winter or had Spain done an Italy and failed to qualify.

I have a feeling the board might have been swayed by the hope that ETH can bring Ajax's brand of flowing, exciting football to OT, which they might be hoping will keep fans quiet for while. We have to give him time not just to rebuild but to bring the whole bloody club back to life. A top-four finish - and bit of run in cup competition - are the most likely targets in his first season but may not be achieved. If he fails very badly, it wouldn't surprise me if he was shown the door if someone else becomes available.

My guess is he might go all out to win the Europa League (if we actually finish high enough to get in it) and use that as the entry card into the CL the following season.

ETH is certainly a better bet than what we've seen over the past 2-3 years and most definitely a step up on the past 8-10 months, so let's hope...

 

[Ahmer Baig]

Welcome ten Hag. Hope he gets the support he needs and deserves. Not really financially, as I think most of our managers have been given very good funds, but more in regards to structure, no interference, a proper scouting team and the board not allowing players to undermine him by going to Fletcher or another director etc to get time off or resolve issues.

As an aside. A lot was said about some players not wanting ten Hag and this view being shared by many ex players now pundits. It’s interesting that Gary Neville, the most vocal on social media hasn’t liked the announcement tweet or commented. I think the biggest problem Ten Hag will face will come from ex players turned pundits and the media especially if he starts dropping the ones we all know should be dropped but that never get called out by the pundits and media.

Remember ladies & gents the football will be easy to criticise early on and they will criticise it especially when we draw/lose and our possession doesn’t result in many chances.
But with patience, coaching and the right players that will change.

Very well said. Let's get behind the new manager and ignore what these pundits have to say.

 

[VP89]

Yeah, same. But, we should stop waiting for a saviour also (another Fergie). If it doesn't work out, hire another progressive coach. Don't go for Simeone after, like we did with Mourinho.


Just wondering how our lot will swim in this.

That sort of football is far more difficult to implement in the PL because the opposition aren't half as dosile as those in the video.

 

[fergiewherearethou]

I'm 100% sure he is better than Ole and Ralf so we should expect on some improvements.
Coming into the PL from Eredivisie is a huge step-up for him, I just hope he can cope with that.

 

[sglowrider]

1. It’ll only be an idiotic minority. People who still have an inexplicable longing for Jose will be a major constituent.
2. It’ll be a hell of a lot less than 18 months

I guess its called the United Year where one year feels like 12 for some.

 

[Revaulx]

No. You have to get the best man for the job. This is Man Utd. We should be on a level with your Barcelonas and your Bayerns but we are taking another massive gamble on a manager who is unproven in any major world league.

And expectations are getting lower and lower along with the standards at the club i have loved back to the days of Tommy Doc when we were in the second tier of English football. We had something about us even then, a glamour a fight a commitment. Not now.

All the talk is of zero expectations for Ten Hag next season. So are we really going to have another three years wasted. I hope not

So were you expecting Tommy Doc to win the league in his first full season (73/74)? I certainly didn’t. Maybe I had unacceptably low standards.

 

[Ranchero]

Isn't the champions league the most elite competition in football?

You make your name in the rigours of a league season not effectively cup competitions.
There are Prem managers who right now have more experience of top level league football than Ten Hag. Let's not kid ourselves like the United recruiters that he has proven himself to be a top European manager. He is unproven in any top league let alone a massive club.

 

[sglowrider]

I'm 100% sure he is better than Ole and Ralf so we should expect on some improvements.
Coming into the PL from Eredivisie is a huge step-up for him, I just hope he can cope with that.

Hope springs eternal.

 

[sglowrider]

I listened to another one that sounded even more like that.

A newer LVG?

 

[Andre Kagawa]

No. You have to get the best man for the job. This is Man Utd. We should be on a level with your Barcelonas and your Bayerns but we are taking another massive gamble on a manager who is unproven in any major world league.

And expectations are getting lower and lower along with the standards at the club i have loved back to the days of Tommy Doc when we were in the second tier of English football. We had something about us even then, a glamour a fight a commitment. Not now.

All the talk is of zero expectations for Ten Hag next season. So are we really going to have another three years wasted. I hope not

Who would be your choice to get the job?

 

[Marcus]

I suspect that we will start off a bit like Leeds. Lots of goals scored and goals conceded. But we will be playing on the front foot and hopefully as time passes, we concede less. Will be fun! Donny definitely will have a place in the new United. We will be a system team and he will be a system player Ten Hag does not need to retrain.

 

[Ranchero]

So were you expecting Tommy Doc to win the league in his first full season (73/74)? I certainly didn’t. Maybe I had unacceptably low standards.

No there were no expectations then. Apart from attractive derring do post Matt Busby football. Certainly from.a young me. And the team of Hill, Pearson and co who won promotion from thethen Second Division were an exciting outfit to watch by direct contast to this shower of shirking professional footballer imposters.

 

[Jim Beam]

That sort of football is far more difficult to implement in the PL because the opposition aren't half as dosile as those in the video.

Yeah, it's all about passion. Next thing you know it David Silva and the likes is running rings around every defence.

But it will be tough. Because our bunch is dosile.

 

[Revaulx]

I guess its called the United Year where one year feels like 12 for some.

They’ve already started. This from a recent match day thread regarding ETH:

Good. He isnt the answer. Zero experience in any of the major world leagues. And he needs to have that to deal with a club the size of United in such turmoil. Conte would have shaken this up. Id have Mourinho back at a shot before another sitting duck

 

[sglowrider]

Proof that the players have been elevated above the manager. Any players of that disposition need to go.

I think players above managers is the way it is now -- look at RM, PSG? But they seem to be able to cope and be successful or relatively speaking in PSG's case. Jose was like that.

I fear the Klopp and Pep's approach may be an anachronistic approach going forward.

 

[Flexdegea]

Does it really matter?


Murtough is the right man for the job, pushes for Ralf & pushed for ETH over Poch. Fed up of defending Murtough to people, do your research, there’s plenty of posts I’ve made, where you can see why he’s made for the role.

The Murtough criticism is unreal, despite doing everything right since taking over people still want someone else.

Bizarre the criticism he is getting, it's like people are refusing to believe what their eyes and ears are showing them.


How could anyone think he hasn't a clue, when he been making these moves since he brought in Rangnick to try and change the structure at the club. I mean even appointing Hag shows a man who has done his homework and is trying to streamline football operations now with moves behind the scenes with recruitment etc


But in the Caf you get folk in questioning what he actually does and they want someone else in as they will defo do a better job because they know stuff behind the scenes that no one else knows.

 

[Blood Mage]

He is a gamble and he may well struggle to adapt to the league at first, I don't think it's controversial to say that. However, long-term I think he will adapt and prove to be the right choice. He's too intelligent, meticulous and football-obsessed to not do everything in his power to be a success here.

 

[Ranchero]

Who would be your choice to get the job?

I would have got in Poch before he went to PSG, Tuchel before Chelsea nabbed him or Conte before Spurs. We have dithered over appointing managers and always got it wrong.
I think there are managers in the Prem right now who have a greater experience than Ten Hag. They include Moyes, who I think is far better equipped to deal with a big club now than then. Also Potter at Brighton, Rodgers at Leicester and Hassenhuttl at Southampton. To name but a few.

Ten Hag is another sop for the fans like Ole. Appointed as a popular choice and not necessarily the right one.

Having said that i really do hope he is a success. He has his work cut out.

 

[Flexdegea]

At least you accept Ten Hag is an up and coming manager. John Murtough, United's football director describes him as 'one of the most exciting and successful coaches in Europe'. He isn't. He has zero experience in any top world league. Any success he has had is in the Eredivisie which is a weak league. It is a big gamble. This is not a Pep before he went to City or a Klopp before Liverpool or a Tuchel before Chelsea or Conte before Spurs ...who had a body of success on top world leagues.

It is worrying that Murtough, whose CV for doing the job at United has also been questioned, would so overegg the track record of Ten Hag to the point we are already giving him a status that he just doesnt have.

Thank God you here to bring us back to reality.


Damn Murtough, you should have said Hag hasn't proved anything and he doomed to failure as he hasn't this supposed body of work Tuchel had at the mighty French league.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

You make your name in the rigours of a league season not effectively cup competitions.
There are Prem managers who right now have more experience of top level league football than Ten Hag. Let's not kid ourselves like the United recruiters that he has proven himself to be a top European manager. He is unproven in any top league let alone a massive club.

Can you give examples of managers who did consistently well in the champions league at a supposedly inferior league club and then failed when they moved up to a more competitive league?

 

[Revaulx]

No there were no expectations then. Apart from attractive derring do post Matt Busby football. Certainly from.a young me. And the team of Hill, Pearson and co who won promotion from thethen Second Division were an exciting outfit to watch by direct contast to this shower of shirking professional footballer imposters.

You do realise it’s because we are crap and have expectations not to be that we are changing manager? And we’ve brought in one with a reputation for exciting football, rather than another dull pragmatist like Jose or Conte?