Eddy_JukeZ
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He's losing it at this point.Worrying that he is now referring to last season as an over performance.
Zero charisma.
He's losing it at this point.Worrying that he is now referring to last season as an over performance.
Then you don't know whats happening here, I literally said last night he had to go.....Sure, I think what’s happening here is that an ETH supporter is trying to suggest he was briefed the ‘wrong budget’, and therefore not given the proper tools to work with. Which is bizarre. What happened was we gave him the budget we felt we could afford, and then we gave him even more later.
The responsibility for our disastrous transfers is dual. The club should never have blindly backed ETH like that, and ETH shouldn’t have insisted on signing ageing, raw, ill-suited, mediocre or downright terrible players that he knew would cost a huge chunk of our budget.
You misunderstand me, I was referring to VP89 and the ongoing discussion, not you.Then you don't know whats happening here, I literally said last night he had to go.....
People perhaps need to see the bigger picture. If it all played out how people say it did then nothing above the manager has changed and its all BS. Failure in transfers, be it price paid or the players themselves, should be ultimately falling on Murtough. Its not football manager.
Because this is RedCafe where previous managers get vindicated because the current one isn't working out. Then the revisionism will start in full force whereby it'll be made out that the previous manager was actually pretty good and had us playing some decent stuff. It's just a weird RedCafe thing.Ole spent 3yrs without targeting a CM, keeping McFred as our midfield engine and played players even when injured - how’s that maximising their strengths?
Indeed. The question I keep asking myself is whether people expect bottom half teams that have worse players and unbalanced squads to consistently look like they have never trained together, because that's how United performes on a weekly basis? I don't know if it will make sense but the structure of a club is generally at fault when we are talking about the ceiling of a team but here our issue is the floor which is something that is supposed to be dictated by the head coach, that's the difference between a good and a bad coach, the good coach even at his worst find ways to elevate the floor of his team.The 'structure' excuse to absolve Ten Hag is quite something.
A much better structure isn't to improve his incompetent coaching that we've seen this season. I truly think some of you don't realize how bad we've been. There is nothing redeemable about our season and we will get worse unless our performances massively improve. Our xPTs has us sitting 13th. We will start slipping down the table and there's a good chance we don't finish in the top half. It's abject management from him all season.
ETH cult all the way eh?This whole budget thing sounds like a DOF problem though than EtH to be fair.
I mean, isn't that what Murtough is meant to be doing? Or am I miss understanding the process? I'd have thought he would know the budget, EtH knows the players he wants (or at least a few choices in positions he wants) and off Murtough goes?
Like this whole Antony thing. EtH might want him, but surely its Murtough who decided to blow £80M on him? Or for all we know Mount wasn't first choice and it was Murtough who decided he was the better option financially...
What he’s got left on his deal. Same way Poch stayed out of work post Spurs for so long because they were paying him long after he left. Unless the manager agrees to a reduced settlement you can’t just rip up a contract.Please I want someone to enlighten me on how we must pay 15m to sack ten Hag?
If he's sacked and he gets another job in few months, don't we stop the salary payments? Or if he earns lower on the new job, we make up the balance to meet what he earned at Utd??
Anybody please
I want ten Hag out like yesterday, he's killing our players morale
I would guess that things get better, that's what his past history shows. Head coaches aren't used to pick players for themselves and whenever I see it happening the head coach makes ridiculous choices.These are the players he wanted. What happens when he has to coach players someone else chooses for him
The idea of improving our structures is so we don't keep on underperforming managers past their sell by date and let them buy whoever they please. I think there's some confusion as to what the word structure means. ETH is failing all on his own.The 'structure' excuse to absolve Ten Hag is quite something.
A much better structure isn't to improve his incompetent coaching that we've seen this season. I truly think some of you don't realize how bad we've been. There is nothing redeemable about our season and we will get worse unless our performances massively improve. Our xPTs has us sitting 13th. We will start slipping down the table and there's a good chance we don't finish in the top half. It's abject management from him all season.
In a season he had two record CL winners starting, imagine them both hearing those comments. Embarrassing.Worrying that he is now referring to last season as an over performance.
This has been an ongoing issue for years that seems to be at its absolute worst now. We played our best under Ole as a counterattacking team. Our two best recent results, against Chelsea and Villa, were against a bloody awful defence and one stubbornly playing a stupid high line after Garnacho and Rashford battered it time and again. When it comes to trying to technically break a team down we're just found wanting, lacking in crossing ability (and a dominant striker in the area), and the ability to beat a man face-to-face. I really like Garnacho, but it was so tedious yesterday watching him run into defenders and losing the ball and his passing into the area isn't consistent. Rashford looks much the same as well.There is one huge factor when it comes to playing teams like Forest. Every time we moved the ball near their penalty area, they defended with 9 people behind the ball.
It doesn't really matter what patterns of play you use, what drills you do or how well coached your team is in these situations. These things help as far as bringing the ball in danger area. After that - individual class comes into play.
When there is no space to attack and no obvious pass, it comes to the ability of players to improvise, beat a man, make a trick shot etc.
And this applies to every team ever.
Sure, in an open game the better coached team will win most of the times. But when one team is defending tightly with many bodies, it will always be down to players individual class.
This season in every game we played against defensive teams, we bring the ball to the penalty area again and again and we simply cannot find a solution. This is mostly on the players. In these situations you'll expect your wingers to beat a man, so they can get inside the box. And our wingers are hopeless. Garnacho has the pace to beat a defender when he's on the run. When he has to beat the defender face to face, he fails 95% of the time. Rashford, Antony, Pellistri... All hopeless in 1vs1 situations. Actually Sancho is the one winger who has shown some kind of ability to beat a man on the spot, but he turned out to be a massive, lazy twat.
Usually when the wingers can't get inside, the ball gets passed back to Bruno, who attempts some insanely stupid cross to nobody.
It's not complicated. The budget evidently wasn't the top end budget that was communicated to him at the start of the window. It points to poor planning and structure if budgets can change on the fly like that. It's just a glimpse of how unorganised they are.The budget was not wrong. The budget was changed. How is that so complicated?
As for the latter, do you genuinely believe the club would have signed Antony without ETH here?
Yes. Solksjaer for example wasn't told what the Amad fee needed and didn't know what was paid until it was done.I think they confirmed Solskjaer was in the dark over fees involved for a couple of players. I don’t think they mentioned Ten Hag. This was under Woodward.
Mind elaborating?I would guess that things get better, that's what his past history shows. Head coaches aren't used to pick players for themselves and whenever I see it happening the head coach makes ridiculous choices.
People talk about effort, tools being downed, being slow and all kind of things related to mentality but none of it is actually true. We generally win or play admirably through sheer effort, what we don't do is dominate technically, we are subpar technical team even a talent like Garnacho lacks high end technical ability. The other day someone posted a highlight of Berbatov and the lad would look like martian compared to our current best technician, I don't even know who in this team would be labelled as a technician.This has been an ongoing issue for years that seems to be at its absolute worst now. We played our best under Ole as a counterattacking team. Our two best recent results, against Chelsea and Villa, were against a bloody awful defence and one stubbornly playing a stupid high line after Garnacho and Rashford battered it time and again. When it comes to trying to technically break a team down we're just found wanting, lacking in crossing ability (and a dominant striker in the area), and the ability to beat a man face-to-face. I really like Garnacho, but it was so tedious yesterday watching him run into defenders and losing the ball and his passing into the area isn't consistent. Rashford looks much the same as well.
The absolute nadir of the game for me was watching a pretty decent cross go into the area (for once) and there was no one in the middle, not a single person. The one time someone got it right, there was no one to receive.
I mean if this is true for ETHs signings, really particularly Anthony then we really are shambolic. Surely he must have been aware that we were going to outlay c£80m on him being the vast majority of his transfer funds. I fully accept that he wouldn't personally negotiate but he must have been involved in sanctioning a fee in that ballpark, I mean it's one thing for an unknown like Amad where no one in the club beyond the scouts would have known more (e.g. this is not someone OGS had worked with) but when your club manager knows a player better than any of our scouts could do, and personally recommended them, I think it would be insane if he wasn't very aware of what the situation was on the transfer fee. Although given the decisions we've made post SAF anything is possible!Yes. Solksjaer for example wasn't told what the Amad fee needed and didn't know what was paid until it was done.
I'm fine for blaming ten hags coaching and tactics and subs, and I am royally pissed off with a lot of that. I just don't want to hang a criticism had on the transfers because we sucked before him and would have probably sucked after him in that department if INEOS never came
I would be willing to buy into this if there was any evidence of him doing so here - with players he found here.I would guess that things get better, that's what his past history shows. Head coaches aren't used to pick players for themselves and whenever I see it happening the head coach makes ridiculous choices.
His past history is one of a good head coach that works under a DOF who build the squad. And no you shouldn't trust him for building a squad or picking expensive assets because it wasn't his job in the past and he has no track record of being good at it.Mind elaborating?
His current team is made up of players given to him at utd and some players who were also given to him at Ajax at some point. For some reason he wanted them again here. Why wouldn't the club trust him on that if they thought he's competent at managing them?
It's not like he went and scouted Bebe and asked the club to sign him sight unseen.
Transfers are his biggest failing given he wanted such a big say.Yes. Solksjaer for example wasn't told what the Amad fee needed and didn't know what was paid until it was done.
I'm fine for blaming ten hags coaching and tactics and subs, and I am royally pissed off with a lot of that. I just don't want to hang a criticism had on the transfers because we sucked before him and would have probably sucked after him in that department if INEOS never came
Good post.There is one huge factor when it comes to playing teams like Forest. Every time we moved the ball near their penalty area, they defended with 9 people behind the ball.
It doesn't really matter what patterns of play you use, what drills you do or how well coached your team is in these situations. These things help as far as bringing the ball in danger area. After that - individual class comes into play.
When there is no space to attack and no obvious pass, it comes to the ability of players to improvise, beat a man, make a trick shot etc.
And this applies to every team ever.
Sure, in an open game the better coached team will win most of the times. But when one team is defending tightly with many bodies, it will always be down to players individual class.
This season in every game we played against defensive teams, we bring the ball to the penalty area again and again and we simply cannot find a solution. This is mostly on the players. In these situations you'll expect your wingers to beat a man, so they can get inside the box. And our wingers are hopeless. Garnacho has the pace to beat a defender when he's on the run. When he has to beat the defender face to face, he fails 95% of the time. Rashford, Antony, Pellistri... All hopeless in 1vs1 situations. Actually Sancho is the one winger who has shown some kind of ability to beat a man on the spot, but he turned out to be a massive, lazy twat.
Usually when the wingers can't get inside, the ball gets passed back to Bruno, who attempts some insanely stupid cross to nobody.
Another big problem - either the players don't expect our wingers to beat the defence and get inside the box, or they are not coached to attack the box. Because when rarely we manage to get a fullback or winger inside, we only have 1 attacker vs 3-4 defenders to attack the ball. And when we attempt to cut back the ball, Bruno and the other midfielders are too far behind and the pass gets intercepted. Also, Hojlund is not quick enough to react to fast crosses. He seems to be 1-2 steps behind and on a few occasions it looks like if he had started his run earlier, he would have scored.
So it's both down to coaching and players class, but against tight defences the latter is what makes a difference. It will always be like this.
Amad, Mainoo, Martinez, lesser extent Shaw. Mejbri too imo, but he hasn't shown it in the first teamPeople talk about effort, tools being downed, being slow and all kind of things related to mentality but none of it is actually true. We generally win or play admirably through sheer effort, what we don't do is dominate technically, we are subpar technical team even a talent like Garnacho lacks high end technical ability. The other day someone posted a highlight of Berbatov and the lad would look like martian compared to our current best technician, I don't even know who in this team would be labelled as a technician.
He had a veto on transfer targets and so did the club which I don't think is abnormal. But as per the Athletic article, the club was in no way set up to offer their own alternatives or challenge his suggestions with anyone who knows their stuff. I think that is the real problem.Transfers are his biggest failing given he wanted such a big say.
I don't think any of these players are technicians in the elite sense.Amad, Mainoo, Martinez, lesser extent Shaw. Mejbri too imo, but he hasn't shown it in the first team
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I get that and I don't disagree but I would add a little twist. I think that part is on United, for some reason managers believe that they can just purchase and discard whoever they want and don't have to make any compromises, it seems to be the initial position, we have seen that with everyone from Moyes blocking transfers because he wanted to be the one scouting the players to LVG stating that he believed that United could buy anyone they wanted, to Mourinho discarding players for the sake of it and now ETH. Part of it is probably due to how much the club has been willing to spend during a manager first window, it gives them the illusion of playing Football Manager with an in-game editor.I would be willing to buy into this if there was any evidence of him doing so here - with players he found here.
Yeah, I was wondering that myself when I posted it. I guess these are the ones who come closestI don't think any of these players are technicians in the elite sense.
But you can't play 4-3-3 with McTominaySack him and get a manager in who can implement a 4-3-3 system. I’m sick of this fecking 4-2-3-1. It didn’t work under Ole and doesn’t work under Ten Hag. We are just not seeing any style of play and players seem to be all over the place with very few overlaps or movement.
He might be able to win the odd away game against cannon fodder with them all back. That'll be massive progress.With the injured players coming back, Ten Hag is banking on them to hit the ground running. The likes of Shaw, Martinez, Casemiro, Mount etc..
I don't think any of these players are technicians in the elite sense.
The players you listed are on the top end for us, but among elite technicians they are Sunday league players. None of them are technically consistent, as an example Valencia at his best had the ability to control any passes blasted in his direction, he had no left foot but his right foot was technically great, none of our current players match that.Yeah, I was wondering that myself when I posted it. I guess these are the ones who come closest
Every single game our football is slow and directionless until we concede, then we wake up and have some urgency to our play. This has got to be tactical decision as it has happened in nearly every single game this season.I just won’t accept the current injuries as an excuse as to why our attack is woeful and inept. It’s not all on him. But I don’t see how he’s improving this group as an attacking force. We just look utterly clueless in far too many aspects.
And Valencia was seen as a donkey back then in relation to what we had and what had gone before him.The players you listed are on the top end for us, but among elite technicians they are Sunday league players. None of them are technically consistent, as an example Valencia at his best had the ability to control any passes blasted in his direction, he had no left foot but his right foot was technically great, none of our current players match that.
The only thing decent he and the club did this summer is bringing Hojlund, so imo that is not one of his undoings. Everything else was absolutely criminal. Splashing 60m on Mount, 50M on Onana while going into the season with loaned in CDM Amrabat, an obviously declining Casemiro, not fully recovered Martinez, Eriksen as our best CM, and that winger department. Add to that his constant ass licking of Rashford who clearly by his own history over achieved last season. Too many player department issues even if he wsa some tactical genius which he clearly is not.The regime hasn’t helped any manager - he should have gotten a proper striker in the Summer but that’s not his fault. However, he was out of his depth the moment he thought Anthony was good enough for United just because he was decent in the Dutch league.
I think the job just goes to their heads. From the moment they sit in the managers seat, the world's biggest collective blowjob starts by the clubs fanbase.I get that and I don't disagree but I would add a little twist. I think that part is on United, for some reason managers believe that they can just purchase and discard whoever they want and don't have to make any compromises, it seems to be the initial position, we have seen that with everyone from Moyes blocking transfers because he wanted to be the one scouting the players to LVG stating that he believed that United could buy anyone they wanted, to Mourinho discarding players for the sake of it and now ETH. Part of it is probably due to how much the club has been willing to spend during a manager first window, it gives them the illusion of playing Football Manager with an in-game editor.
Now I should say that it's a theory, I could be wrong.
Nani is what Antony think he is, and Berba had more talent in his one leg, than Rashford .And Valencia was seen as a donkey back then in relation to what we had and what had gone before him.
So many of the lesser lights of those old squads would be elite in this shambles we have.
Imagine Nani or Berbatov rocking up now. The fanbase would erect statues for both!