rimaldo
All about the essence
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if you ignore all the games liverpool have won against us, i think it’s clear ten hag has klopp’s number.
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Talking about Mainoo for the first Liverpool goal.Who?
But he gets credit for the goals that we scored due to equally chaotic circumstances as the ones we conceded? Hmm...ETH is not to blame for any of the last 3 penalties. We were winning with 10 minutes to go, it is normal to make a defensive sub. This year, individual errors have really cost us, both in the league and in Europe.
I still don't think changing the manager will solve our problems. I think we simply need to change our club's culture, and INEOS are the ones who can do that now.
So that’s what Eric Ramsay didMainoo making it accidentally pretty clear some of those "minor details" involve lack of planning and details on set pieces.
And they say there are no good alternatives to ETH this summer.You need defenders much younger and fitter to set up at the halfway line and midfielders like Laimer to make whatever he’s trying to do to work. He also can’t be asking players to press maniacally and then not rotate the squad to keep the legs fresh.
When you have a tactical setup that invites the opponents to run unpressured with the ball towards your goal, with your defenders backing off until they reach the penalty area, it’s not exactly a shock that you concede some penalties.ETH is not to blame for any of the last 3 penalties.
What you said would make sense if we were good on the ball/going forward. Luton have scored the same as us. So what ETH is doing is bad offensively and defensively, you play to your teams strength not to some future dream state.I'm likely to be completely wrong here, but seeing klopp's post match got me thinking. Klopp mentioned that he went crazy on the touchline because his back 4 dropped deep, causing a lot of space in the hole which lead to an attack and subsequent panic in his defence. This is essentially our most glaring problem throughout the season in that our front 5 almost ALWAYS press high all game and our back 5 ALWAYS drop. It's the same issue described by klopp but we see it for majority of games.
This lack of compactness between front and back is the root cause of all our problems; the non-existent midfield, the high number of shots conceded, the high number of cutback goals conceded, the high number of corners conceded as our back 4 is isolated in a deep block, causing many one on ones which lead to corners, even the high number of injuries due to recovery runs. I would even argue its the reason why casimero and bruno lose the ball so much because when we do recover the ball we are in our final third making the ball over the top harder to execute.
Pretty much all our regular cbs this year prefer the deep/mid block and are not front foot defenders. This includes varane, maguire, evans, and lindelof. Even if instructed to play a high starting position they'll revert to type as the game progresses. At the same time Ten Hag has clearly doubled down with a high block front 5 instead of compromising like last year because he knows this is how we should play long term and recognises that the players need to learn how to play this way and to get used to the intensity. Combine both these issues and we get this disjointed version that executes a simultaneous low block back 5 and a high block front 5. Add to that how utterly average our defenders are at passing from the back and how lacking in athleticism our midfielders and all the above issues are compounded.
What does all this mean? Well maybe, just maybe, the growing pains this team is going through (VERY Painful ones I might add) will have a positive impact long term? I mean we've played a low to mid block for the longest of times so could we really expect the way our players have been conditioned to play to change overnight? CLEARLY not. This would explain why players like rashford are struggling so badly; he lacks the intensity and intelligence to press and is lazy off the ball, but has importantly always played a different way and can't handle this year's transition.
What if, instead of getting rid of ten hag at the end of the season and start yet another 3 year project, we instead keep him, and supplement the squad with players suitable for this way of playing. I have no doubt ten hag would play the exact same system next year. If, say, we bring in two athletic cms ( as pool did with macallister and zsabozlai), a front foot cb to play along matrinez as rcb, and we get shaw back (or even malacia) and a forward in the mould of tony who can harry and press well, I think the system would come together much better and we would see far more cohesion in how we play. I look back at how badly arteta's arsenal played when the players he had didn't suit the high intensity football they now play and think maybe this applies to our situation too,
This clearly goes against conventional cafe wisdom and could all be wishful thinking but food for thought I guess.
He never said we do He said we want to.....We don't do any of that
How convenient that you left out the Brentford-gameETH is not to blame for any of the last 3 penalties. We were winning with 10 minutes to go, it is normal to make a defensive sub. This year, individual errors have really cost us, both in the league and in Europe.
I still don't think changing the manager will solve our problems. I think we simply need to change our club's culture, and INEOS are the ones who can do that now.
He has contributed to them by playing inverted full-backs.ETH is not to blame for any of the last 3 penalties.
Inverted fullback(s) is proven to work wellHe has contributed to them by playing inverted full-backs.
Good post!I'm likely to be completely wrong here, but seeing klopp's post match got me thinking. Klopp mentioned that he went crazy on the touchline because his back 4 dropped deep, causing a lot of space in the hole which lead to an attack and subsequent panic in his defence. This is essentially our most glaring problem throughout the season in that our front 5 almost ALWAYS press high all game and our back 5 ALWAYS drop. It's the same issue described by klopp but we see it for majority of games.
This lack of compactness between front and back is the root cause of all our problems; the non-existent midfield, the high number of shots conceded, the high number of cutback goals conceded, the high number of corners conceded as our back 4 is isolated in a deep block, causing many one on ones which lead to corners, even the high number of injuries due to recovery runs. I would even argue its the reason why casimero and bruno lose the ball so much because when we do recover the ball we are in our final third making the ball over the top harder to execute.
Pretty much all our regular cbs this year prefer the deep/mid block and are not front foot defenders. This includes varane, maguire, evans, and lindelof. Even if instructed to play a high starting position they'll revert to type as the game progresses. At the same time Ten Hag has clearly doubled down with a high block front 5 instead of compromising like last year because he knows this is how we should play long term and recognises that the players need to learn how to play this way and to get used to the intensity. Combine both these issues and we get this disjointed version that executes a simultaneous low block back 5 and a high block front 5. Add to that how utterly average our defenders are at passing from the back and how lacking in athleticism our midfielders and all the above issues are compounded.
What does all this mean? Well maybe, just maybe, the growing pains this team is going through (VERY Painful ones I might add) will have a positive impact long term? I mean we've played a low to mid block for the longest of times so could we really expect the way our players have been conditioned to play to change overnight? CLEARLY not. This would explain why players like rashford are struggling so badly; he lacks the intensity and intelligence to press and is lazy off the ball, but has importantly always played a different way and can't handle this year's transition.
What if, instead of getting rid of ten hag at the end of the season and start yet another 3 year project, we instead keep him, and supplement the squad with players suitable for this way of playing. I have no doubt ten hag would play the exact same system next year. If, say, we bring in two athletic cms ( as pool did with macallister and zsabozlai), a front foot cb to play along matrinez as rcb, and we get shaw back (or even malacia) and a forward in the mould of tony who can harry and press well, I think the system would come together much better and we would see far more cohesion in how we play. I look back at how badly arteta's arsenal played when the players he had didn't suit the high intensity football they now play and think maybe this applies to our situation too,
This clearly goes against conventional cafe wisdom and could all be wishful thinking but food for thought I guess.
It does have its uses, particularly in defensive setups against forwards that cut in. Ten Hag's setup is pure chaos though and does not make much sense - he is not blameless for situations leading to conceding penalties and late goals.Inverted fullback(s) is proven to work well
You've summarised things pretty well. Good post.I'm likely to be completely wrong here, but seeing klopp's post match got me thinking. Klopp mentioned that he went crazy on the touchline because his back 4 dropped deep, causing a lot of space in the hole which lead to an attack and subsequent panic in his defence. This is essentially our most glaring problem throughout the season in that our front 5 almost ALWAYS press high all game and our back 5 ALWAYS drop. It's the same issue described by klopp but we see it for majority of games.
This lack of compactness between front and back is the root cause of all our problems; the non-existent midfield, the high number of shots conceded, the high number of cutback goals conceded, the high number of corners conceded as our back 4 is isolated in a deep block, causing many one on ones which lead to corners, even the high number of injuries due to recovery runs. I would even argue its the reason why casimero and bruno lose the ball so much because when we do recover the ball we are in our final third making the ball over the top harder to execute.
Pretty much all our regular cbs this year prefer the deep/mid block and are not front foot defenders. This includes varane, maguire, evans, and lindelof. Even if instructed to play a high starting position they'll revert to type as the game progresses. At the same time Ten Hag has clearly doubled down with a high block front 5 instead of compromising like last year because he knows this is how we should play long term and recognises that the players need to learn how to play this way and to get used to the intensity. Combine both these issues and we get this disjointed version that executes a simultaneous low block back 5 and a high block front 5. Add to that how utterly average our defenders are at passing from the back and how lacking in athleticism our midfielders and all the above issues are compounded.
What does all this mean? Well maybe, just maybe, the growing pains this team is going through (VERY Painful ones I might add) will have a positive impact long term? I mean we've played a low to mid block for the longest of times so could we really expect the way our players have been conditioned to play to change overnight? CLEARLY not. This would explain why players like rashford are struggling so badly; he lacks the intensity and intelligence to press and is lazy off the ball, but has importantly always played a different way and can't handle this year's transition.
What if, instead of getting rid of ten hag at the end of the season and start yet another 3 year project, we instead keep him, and supplement the squad with players suitable for this way of playing. I have no doubt ten hag would play the exact same system next year. If, say, we bring in two athletic cms ( as pool did with macallister and zsabozlai), a front foot cb to play along matrinez as rcb, and we get shaw back (or even malacia) and a forward in the mould of tony who can harry and press well, I think the system would come together much better and we would see far more cohesion in how we play. I look back at how badly arteta's arsenal played when the players he had didn't suit the high intensity football they now play and think maybe this applies to our situation too,
This clearly goes against conventional cafe wisdom and could all be wishful thinking but food for thought I guess.
I think one inverted full back does make a lot of sense against some bigger sides. The penalties that were given away was just bullshit brainfarts. It had nothing to do with the players being in an inverted role. Pure full backs have been in equally compromising positioning and had the common sense to not do daft things like Dalot/AWB did.It does have its uses, particularly in defensive setups against forwards that cut in. Ten Hag's setup is pure chaos though and does not make much sense - he is not blameless for situations leading to conceding penalties and late goals.
ETH needs time to twerk this new footballing philosophy.When you have a tactical setup that invites the opponents to run unpressured with the ball towards your goal, with your defenders backing off until they reach the penalty area, it’s not exactly a shock that you concede some penalties.
Wait what? The manager isn’t playing a video game. Also, he can’t control Casemiro lunging in madly and getting done on a simple 1-2.When you have a tactical setup that invites the opponents to run unpressured with the ball towards your goal, with your defenders backing off until they reach the penalty area, it’s not exactly a shock that you concede some penalties.
It shouldn't be at this stage, Ten Hag just takes dislikes to certain players for periods. Varane managed to get on his shit list earlier hin the season, he even spouted bullshit that he couldn't play LCB to justify it. Who knows what's going on behind the scenes with Amad.This. Its baffling.
This is an excellent analysis. However, one thing I don't understand is why when this (the gap in midfield) was pointed out towards him he didn't try to explain that somehow. I recall I read or heard somewhere (could talk of the devils) that they saw once that Ten Hag was shouting at defenders to not go that deep. What he's saying on the conference baffles me at most. He says the performance was good when this was tragic stuff.I'm likely to be completely wrong here, but seeing klopp's post match got me thinking. Klopp mentioned that he went crazy on the touchline because his back 4 dropped deep, causing a lot of space in the hole which lead to an attack and subsequent panic in his defence. This is essentially our most glaring problem throughout the season in that our front 5 almost ALWAYS press high all game and our back 5 ALWAYS drop. It's the same issue described by klopp but we see it for majority of games.
This lack of compactness between front and back is the root cause of all our problems; the non-existent midfield, the high number of shots conceded, the high number of cutback goals conceded, the high number of corners conceded as our back 4 is isolated in a deep block, causing many one on ones which lead to corners, even the high number of injuries due to recovery runs. I would even argue its the reason why casimero and bruno lose the ball so much because when we do recover the ball we are in our final third making the ball over the top harder to execute.
Pretty much all our regular cbs this year prefer the deep/mid block and are not front foot defenders. This includes varane, maguire, evans, and lindelof. Even if instructed to play a high starting position they'll revert to type as the game progresses. At the same time Ten Hag has clearly doubled down with a high block front 5 instead of compromising like last year because he knows this is how we should play long term and recognises that the players need to learn how to play this way and to get used to the intensity. Combine both these issues and we get this disjointed version that executes a simultaneous low block back 5 and a high block front 5. Add to that how utterly average our defenders are at passing from the back and how lacking in athleticism our midfielders and all the above issues are compounded.
What does all this mean? Well maybe, just maybe, the growing pains this team is going through (VERY Painful ones I might add) will have a positive impact long term? I mean we've played a low to mid block for the longest of times so could we really expect the way our players have been conditioned to play to change overnight? CLEARLY not. This would explain why players like rashford are struggling so badly; he lacks the intensity and intelligence to press and is lazy off the ball, but has importantly always played a different way and can't handle this year's transition.
What if, instead of getting rid of ten hag at the end of the season and start yet another 3 year project, we instead keep him, and supplement the squad with players suitable for this way of playing. I have no doubt ten hag would play the exact same system next year. If, say, we bring in two athletic cms ( as pool did with macallister and zsabozlai), a front foot cb to play along matrinez as rcb, and we get shaw back (or even malacia) and a forward in the mould of tony who can harry and press well, I think the system would come together much better and we would see far more cohesion in how we play. I look back at how badly arteta's arsenal played when the players he had didn't suit the high intensity football they now play and think maybe this applies to our situation too,
This clearly goes against conventional cafe wisdom and could all be wishful thinking but food for thought I guess.
How the feck did we have no shots when we had a goal disallowed? Sky were harping on about this earlier and I feel like I was taking crazy pills!!0 shots against our biggest rivals after 45 mins.
At home!
feck this and people thinking its ok.
Literally no one thinks that’s ok. Reasonable people can disagree on the best way forward though.0 shots against our biggest rivals after 45 mins.
At home!
feck this and people thinking its ok.
It was offside so didn't count.How the feck did we have no shots when we had a goal disallowed? Sky were harping on about this earlier and I feel like I was taking crazy pills!!
The style of football he wants to play (from what we are physically seeing from us in front of our eyes, not his weird press conferences where he talks in an alternate universe) just isn’t possible unless we sign an entirely new team. And that includes replacing pretty much all of the players he’s signed too.You need defenders much younger and fitter to set up at the halfway line and midfielders like Laimer to make whatever he’s trying to do to work. He also can’t be asking players to press maniacally and then not rotate the squad to keep the legs fresh.
Not directly no, but if you concede that many shots, that much pressure that many touches in the box. Than you run the risk of those sort of things happening.ETH is not to blame for any of the last 3 penalties. We were winning with 10 minutes to go, it is normal to make a defensive sub. This year, individual errors have really cost us, both in the league and in Europe.
I still don't think changing the manager will solve our problems. I think we simply need to change our club's culture, and INEOS are the ones who can do that now.
I wouldn't read into it. Big Sam was also seen at a few games with SAF, wasn't he? I believe they're close friends.Any reason Big Sam was in the box with Jim? Maybe a care taker manager job for big Sam until the end of the season?
It still happened! It wasn’t a goal but it was still a shot. What a nonsense.It was offside so didn't count.
Play gets called back for the offside so nothing like that counts.It still happened! It wasn’t a goal but it was still a shot. What a nonsense.
Seek help if this is truly how you feel that’s not a good place to be at.It makes me physically angry reading posts how he’ll come good and he just needs time. The guy is a stubborn moron and we need to get rid of him before Mainoo and others develop PTSD.
I agree. I would stick with Ten Hag and give him the first three months of the new season, but I'm in the minority.ETH is not to blame for any of the last 3 penalties. We were winning with 10 minutes to go, it is normal to make a defensive sub. This year, individual errors have really cost us, both in the league and in Europe.
I still don't think changing the manager will solve our problems. I think we simply need to change our club's culture, and INEOS are the ones who can do that now.
All of this is on the money. A natural LB doesn’t give that peno away either. If we are going to press at least fecking rotate. Also dropping Antony for Rashford was stupid. I don’t get a lot of stuff the manager is trying. He probably should be more pragmatic but there was a good post earlier more or less saying that he is setting us up to play direct pressing football knowing that we are going to have growing pains and we will drop points. It’s a good way to see which players are going to be up for it and who won’t. It’s a years experience of playing in the style he wants even if it doesn’t suit all the players we currently have.You need defenders much younger and fitter to set up at the halfway line and midfielders like Laimer to make whatever he’s trying to do to work. He also can’t be asking players to press maniacally and then not rotate the squad to keep the legs fresh.
We have to stop writing of seasonsI agree. I would stick with Ten Hag and give him the first three months of the new season, but I'm in the minority.