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- Sep 30, 2023
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- Chester
The bookies have got Coventry at shorter odds to beat United than Chelsea are to beat City.
Preferred a familiar player that knows the system in Amrabat.Why he didn't push to sign Sabitzer is beyond me...
Wasn‘t good enough. Had more poor games than good ones. A bit like Donny.Why he didn't push to sign Sabitzer is beyond me...
Yep. It's why I never understood the "new structure" argument. The manager is a critical part of the aforementioned shite structure and it all needs to go. A lot of the players need to be replaced too but it's a much longer and more difficult process to replace them so that will understandably take a couple of windows.It really has been one of those seasons that a manager shouldn't survive on principal, even if he has a shot of turning things around with some good signings in the summer. Heads need to roll for how utterly shite we've been.
Bit of a rewriting of history due to recent events, did you want us to sign him at the end of last season? He was a massive disappointment, had a few good moments, but was injured most of the time and barely made an impression.Why he didn't push to sign Sabitzer is beyond me...
Exactly. I pointed this out in one of his other posts spouting this nonsense.Huh?
So 4-0, 6-3 and 7-0 weren't big beatings?
Watching Barca tonight made me think back to the Barca/United Europa tie last season.Watching attacking football tonight reminded me of why we must get rid of ETH. We will never play football like this under him. The odd 20 mins here and there just won’t cut it whilst he talks about a process that is more made up than the bible.
I would have thought he'd have already been able to get his decision across so feck knows why eth is still here.I’m sure Ashworth has an idea, I doubt he’s sat at home, locked in the basement without any contact with the outside world.
You do realise we're not through either?City arnt through yet, to reach the final they have to beat Chelsea which is something they failed to do home or away in the Premier League this season.
We differ on when that line is crossed but it seems to me you start thinking about sacking a manager when it's going very bad resultwise, and some very bad displays resulting in humiliating big number losses. Neither is the truth at the moment.So dogshit in just about every department this season but at least we haven't got batter 6/7-0. Fair enough.
I wouldn't ever want us to be as bad as it would need to be for you to think the manager needs sacking.
I never said we were through I was just pointing out tbat City arntYou do realise we're not through either?
We differ on when that line is crossed but it seems to me you start thinking about sacking a manager when it's going very bad resultwise, and some very bad displays resulting in humiliating big number losses. Neither is the truth at the moment.
Having less against goals than 5 of the current top 8 clubs, with our defensive injuries Ten Hag should get a benefit of the doubt imo. It's a pretty good stat considering. Other way of putting it: it''s a positive wich balances the negatives somewhat. In the end, it's never a black and white story, is it? I'm confident INEOS and their new people look at it the same way as me: mixed. 23 24 is less than the year before but it does have plusses.
You are making it too obvious mate.
Remember the club being hyped up about Mainoo, so they didn’t want to get a guy in that is going to play the same position we have multiple players in. We needed a DM so instead we got Amrabat and we all know how that went.Bit of a rewriting of history due to recent events, did you want us to sign him at the end of last season? He was a massive disappointment, had a few good moments, but was injured most of the time and barely made an impression.
Literally said he had moments, you call it glimpses, there's no differenceRemember the club being hyped up about Mainoo, so they didn’t want to get a guy in that is going to play the same position we have multiple players in. We needed a DM so instead we got Amrabat and we all know how that went.
But wouldn’t go that far by saying his time was unimpressive, he did show some glimpses and wasn’t all that bad as you’re making him out to be.
So basically have him as interim manager for a year?Just have this feeling that if we sack ETH we will be repeating the process of signing and sacking a manager, until we build a squad that has decent characters with skill.
Don’t get me wrong I’m 100% on ETH not being the right man to win PL/ CL, but just hope we wait for a top manager and just don’t go with the media pressure here and get another ETH kind of guy. He’s bad this season yes, but has shown few glimpses on getting us into top 4.
Without the benefit of hindsight, ETH was more or less at the same level as the replacements being suggested like Southgate, de zerbi etc
My plan would be to keep him next season, get good signings in so we don’t give the eventual new manager a squad that is shite and overpaid, get us into top 4 and sack him when we’re on the up instead of the pit we’re in at this moment. Even Pep can’t salvage these players.
Need to really do this differently, what one more season after a decade worth of disappointment.
So let him stay despite failing when Moyes, LVG, Jose and Ole all got sacked for less, hope he does well next season then as a reward sack him then?Just have this feeling that if we sack ETH we will be repeating the process of signing and sacking a manager, until we build a squad that has decent characters with skill.
Don’t get me wrong I’m 100% on ETH not being the right man to win PL/ CL, but just hope we wait for a top manager and just don’t go with the media pressure here and get another ETH kind of guy. He’s bad this season yes, but has shown few glimpses on getting us into top 4.
Without the benefit of hindsight, ETH was more or less at the same level as the replacements being suggested like Southgate, de zerbi etc
My plan would be to keep him next season, get good signings in so we don’t give the eventual new manager a squad that is shite and overpaid, get us into top 4 and sack him when we’re on the up instead of the pit we’re in at this moment. Even Pep can’t salvage these players.
Need to really do this differently, what one more season after a decade worth of disappointment.
Agreed, but still not that bad tbh, wouldLiterally said he had moments, you call it glimpses, there's no difference
Kind of yes, just because of the lack of options currently that can guarantee some success, our squad being horrible and him having some knowledge now he’s been here for 2 years.So basically have him as interim manager for a year?
You actually make a good point. LvG had better end results points (70 points season 14 15 and 66 points season 15 16) after 38 played respectively and position wise than ETH currently. Why give ETH more time?So let him stay despite failing when Moyes, LVG, Jose and Ole all got sacked for less, hope he does well next season then as a reward sack him then?
Which top manager should we wait on?
That was Mourinho's first season, and ignores that there was a lot more than just taking the 9 off him. Martial was also being played in a new position and was having problems in his personal life (with the mother of his child breaking up with him and taking it very public). All happening at the age of 20. It's an extremely lazy narrative that all his issues that season were due to him sulking about losing the 9, when in reality it was probably the least impactful of what was going on. It didn't help and straight away showed that the manager didn't seem to value him that highly, but it was hardly the only thing going on.Martial sulked and basically downed tools when Jose took the '9' off him and gave it to Zlatan.
He looked half-arsed when OGS was battling to save his job and he's been consistently lethargic / injured under EtH
His defenders really pull out the "insomnia" and "change the fact" card to defend him. No beatings ?? If anything we got hammered left and right under him compared to our previous managers. The fact he survived 7-0 against Pool itself was a fecking farce. That 3 beating itself counted as 3 out of 10 worst beating post SAF era. This also doesnt count multiple 3-0/3-1 scorelinesHuh?
So 4-0, 6-3 and 7-0 weren't big beatings?
Yes the same cafe that is already complaining about INEOS. There is no interim that could turn it around in this short period of time. Season is done, get over it and have some patience FFS.Because it’s Redcafe. It’s what the Caf does.
Rashford would be the one I am worried about staying because looks like he has lost interest. There is also concern Sancho will get another chance with a new manager. Having said that I still hope we make the change in summer just please not Southgate/Potter. I would take most other options on the table.Mate there's only 10-11 players left who played under Solskjaer 2 years ago. Even if for some inexplicable reason Ten Hag was kept on the only players that would likely leave are Martial, Sancho and Varane. I reckon Sancho and Martial will be leaving regardless of who the manager is and let's not forget with the new structure in place and a DOF it likely won't be the managers choice on his own who stays or goes anyway. I don't understand the concern.
Who are you worried will stay?
So just like most of his signings.Bit of a rewriting of history due to recent events, did you want us to sign him at the end of last season? He was a massive disappointment, had a few good moments, but was injured most of the time and barely made an impression.
Thing with LVG we never got the chance to see if once he got us used to keeping the ball he might have then felt it was safe for us to go more expansive. I just don't know where we are going with ETH.ETH has a considerably better side that LVG had. I hated the guy and his football, but having seen what ETH served up, I respect what he did a bit more. He actually coached us to be a solid possession team, with the likes of Smalling, Jones and DDG. He even used youth players that ended up being lower league level at best. Some probably never made it in the end. But at least he got his basic principles down, and we dominated some good teams in terms of person. It was just boring to watch.
Really, neither is a United coach in my eyes.
What a load of shite. 2015/16 Leicester won the league, we still lost 10 games.ETH has a considerably better side that LVG had. I hated the guy and his football, but having seen what ETH served up, I respect what he did a bit more. He actually coached us to be a solid possession team, with the likes of Smalling, Jones and DDG. He even used youth players that ended up being lower league level at best. Some probably never made it in the end. But at least he got his basic principles down, and we dominated some good teams in terms of person. It was just boring to watch.
Really, neither is a United coach in my eyes.
You actually make a good point. LvG and Moyes had better end results points (66 and 70 after 38 played respectively)and position wise than ETH currently. Why give ETH more time?
If you look closer, you see why ETH wins at least in display, attacking and playing(!) vs for instance, LvG.
LvG had atrocious game tactics production. He produced 13 1-0 wins (all competitions), 9 draws of wich 6 ended goalles, even against low teams.
ETH currently has 4 1 - 0 wins on 15 won, and 1 goalles draw vs LFC in 23 24. That is not just a little but much better stat. (Moyes even better: just 2 1 - 0 wins all season the year before.)
LvGs end goal stat after 38 played for is 49 and we are now after 32 at 47, wich is still not great but the forementioned stats proof ETh has United play a lot, lot more agressive than LvG ever did.
LvG also didn't have as many injuries, and no rampant City whilst Rodgers LFC, the main rivals. Today the standards are much higher, broader, the organisation much more professional, hence INEOS focus on starting there.
I wouldn't necessarily give ETH a full more year - Moyes and Ole got sacked because of that other sackable offence: lose 3 games in a row and show very bad play, but I think it's up to ETH how he finishes this season with a bit more flair in play, good results against the next 3 and then INEOS will probably give it another go. And if they replace him, indeed, wait for the correct top manager available. That could mean waiting out another year whilst signing a pre contract or something. But you definitly have a point.
Some observations I'd have is Rashford given his contract wages and length he won't be going anywhere so buckle in. Ten Hag would probably want to keep him anyway were it his decision and from here on out the manager hopefully won't be making those decisions on their own. So whether he stays or goes isn't dependant on who the manager is.Rashford would be the one I am worried about staying because looks like he has lost interest. There is also concern Sancho will get another chance with a new manager. Having said that I still hope we make the change in summer just please not Southgate/Potter. I would take most other options on the table.
The the fact we haven't had a few bad hammerings this season must be down to luck and Onana actually being a great shot stopper. Because we play like a team just asking for a hammering just about every week.His defenders really pull out the "insomnia" and "change the fact" card to defend him. No beatings ?? If anything we got hammered left and right under him compared to our previous managers. The fact he survived 7-0 against Pool itself was a fecking farce. That 3 beating itself counted as 3 out of 10 worst beating post SAF era. This also doesnt count multiple 3-0/3-1 scorelines
The the fact we haven't had a few bad hammerings this season must be down to luck and Onana actually being a great shot stopper. Because we play like a team just asking for a hammering just about every week.
So any manager that gets one (1) big beating, he needs an immediate sack? That wouldn't leave any manager for very long at any club.His defenders really pull out the "insomnia" and "change the fact" card to defend him. No beatings ?? If anything we got hammered left and right under him compared to our previous managers. The fact he survived 7-0 against Pool itself was a fecking farce. That 3 beating itself counted as 3 out of 10 worst beating post SAF era. This also doesnt count multiple 3-0/3-1 scorelines
Oh, but LvG had fantastic stats defensively. No question. Just 35 against goals after 38 played. Also the game control stats look so much more dominant. 'We want to play dominant football" LvG. A game vs giants Watford https://www.espn.co.uk/football/matchstats/_/gameId/422387 shows 61% possesion. Those guys at Athletic complaining we don't show those numbers of possesion probably still dream about LvG.What you are saying is not ETH "wins in attacking" as our attacking play is for most of this season as boring to watch as we ever were under LVG. You are in fact pointing out that ETHs United are worse at defending. Much worse.
And I think without Onana having an underrated season we could be hovering above the relegation zone. Which would be deserved as by just about every metric we perform much like a recently promoted team struggling to stay up.
This is a negative for Ten Hag and one of the main reasons he should go.
No, no ones saying that because that would be as logical as backing a manager who has overseen a complete and utter failure of a season based solely on the fact that for some inexplicable statistical anomaly his team haven't been battered by 5+ goals yet.So any manager that gets one (1) big beating, he needs an immediate sack? That wouldn't leave any manager for very long at any club.
History learns PL managers usually get the sack when results are very bad, and usually after a 3 game run of losses. And down to luck or not, in the end the table result is what is remembered.
Oh, but LvG had fantastic stats defensively. No question. Just 35 against goals after 38 played. Also the game control stats look so much more dominant. 'We want to play dominant football" LvG. A game vs giants Watford https://www.espn.co.uk/football/matchstats/_/gameId/422387 shows 61% possesion. Those guys at Athletic complaining we don't show those numbers of possesion probably still dream about LvG.
But LvG got sacked because we won those games with one nil. 9 games in the PL alone, winning just by one total goal vs the likes of Watford, Norwich, 2015 Villa. We hardly ever got near the box of the opposition. There was no penetration, no idea, no synergy. Compared to his previous season, that display looked bad. very bad. It didn't help that Mourinho - then the top 3, maybe to some the best in the world became available. On top of that this example Watford actually had more shots on target than us.
Like I said it's never a black and white story, but attackingwise, play if that is the number one complaint about ETH's United then we today look spring chippy fantastic vs that year of LvG ball.
(In his defence he claimed he did not get the payers he wanted but overall he had acces to Falcao, Van Persie, Rojo, Evans, Depay, Mata, Martial in his good days, Rooney, Carrick, Young, Herrera, Shaw, Rashford (gave him his debut), Valencia, Fellaini (made us get lots of long ball play accusations) Scheiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Mata and a very in form De Gea.)
The Chelsea v city match is literally being refereed by someone who the city owner employs (Michael Oliver)The bookies have got Coventry at shorter odds to beat United than Chelsea are to beat City.