Only way this all gets worse (and funnier) is if he either directly or indirectly ends up at Liverpool or City and ends up being good
Erik ten Hag vs Sancho
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like Ozil vs Arteta. But at United they value player more
bringing sancho back into the fold would just be an absolute shit message that would torpedo any future hope of holding players accountable.
iirc Sancho cost £80m and has been at Utd 2 years now? Player values are subject to annual depreciation whereby the purchase cost is divided by the length of contract. So, if Sancho’s contract is 5 years then his book value will have reduced by (80/5=16x2=) £32m so the owners will have him at £48m. Any less than that = loss and any more than that = profit.
The key factor is his salary, something like £350k a week? That would be £18.2m costs each year for no positive return whatsoever because all he’s produced is embarrassment for your club and bad publicity has a negative value.
If they keep him it costs them (£16m depreciation + £18.2m wages =) £34.2m every year . . the owners love money and the prospect of another 3 years of that must be killing them. Will they hang on to a none performing player for 3 years at a cost of £102.6m or cut their losses by selling him for next to nowt?
I’m guessing that letting him walk on a free must be looking attractive because that would only cost them his book value of £48m which is sooo much better than 3 more years of bad publicity and a total loss of £102.6m.
The middle ground would be a loan with Utd paying a large part of his salary . . but paying even any part of his salary, while he brings no value to your club and his book value diminishes, is worse than paying no part of his salary and getting the bad smell out of the place that waving goodbye would.
The trouble is that Sancho won’t want to go even on a free unless he can find a club that’ll pay him what Utd are paying right now.
I can see that happening because a free transfer means a signing on fee and that combined with a lower salary might meet what he’d have received in salary at Utd.
I must say that, as an innocent bystander, I find the Sancho saga quite fascinating.
I remember all the buzz about him being an amazing prospect, I saw clips on YouTube and he certainly looked the part.
I was looking forward to him playing in the PL because exciting players always add to the occasion.
Then Utd paid a whacking great price for him, put him on a massive salary, and he seemed to just stop running like he’d decided he was above all that getting sweaty lark.
I was shocked by it all, it was something that I just didn’t expect.
Sir Alex Ferguson: "The minute a Manchester United player thinks he's bigger than the manager, he has to go
Simple. Authority needs to be that. Not a negotiable position when someone acts petulant.
Simple. Authority needs to be that. Not a negotiable position when someone acts petulant.
Absolutely agree. The problem is his mates in the dressing room will stay and play up. Contracts are too big at the club to move people on.
Fat bastard can go regardless of who the manager is
Then again refer to previous statement.
We need an absolute goal that people are either behind or against. Pick a side. United and manager or against.
There is another option that you didn't mention - extend his contract, preserve his book value (by dividing the 48m by more years it will go down slower than under the current contract). If you manage to negotiate a wage reduction with him, your yearly loss on him looks even better! #glazernomics
Very clear and well written !!
You’re quite right, extending his contract would reduce his annual depreciation and think Utd include a 1 year extension in most if not all contracts nowadays?
The trouble with that is that using the 1 year extension would bring 1 year of his current salary without negotiation which would mean that you’d be adding another £18.2m to take the total write off up from £102.6m to £120.8m which would be madness.
You could negotiate a salary reduction for further years but that would bring even more cost without any return.
The answer to the problem would be for Sancho to zip his lips, get his head down and work harder than he’s ever worked and start to pay back the massive investment that Utd, and by extension you the supporters, have made in him.
If he were ripping it up every week then his annual costs would be offset against the product of his labours, if his input brings good publicity and honours to the table then it would be happy days all round.
The great shame is that there’s an absolutely brilliant prospect hiding inside that surly child but as time goes on there’s an ever diminishing prospect of it ever emerging again. Can’t someone call his mother and get her to slap him round the head until his balls drop and he finally starts behaving like a man?
Sell him back to Dortmund for 15 mil and be done with it.
Sound like solutions we used to do in the 90's & 00's and ended up in memoires.
Chances are he was consulted on the issue and agrees on current course of action.
Very true, SAF wouldn’ve slapped him purple eh?
Might have thrown something at him
Agree with your maths, but depreciation and book value is all FFP related. In the real world, The Glazers will see that we spend 80mil on player, that the club is paying 350k for that the manager has frozen out.
It would seem that ETHs decision to force him out has backfired. If reports are true, other players in the squad disagree with it and from a financial perspective, it is a disaster.
I could understand that perspective if he’d been any good when played, but even when he’s been in the squad he’s rarely played, and he’s been outstandingly meh when he has. So having him training with the kiddies is no loss whatsoever to TH and it gets his bad example away from the senior players.
PS. And while the Glazers don’t understand football they certainly do understand money and the value of cutting losses / not throwing good money after bad. Just look at the way they’re selling off underperforming shopping malls at a massive loss and investing in sports businesses (Indian professional cricket etc.).
I agree, he has been average, at best. But average is still better than some of the dross that are playing for United right now. Sancho came on v Wolves, played well and set up the goal, iirc.
My opinion, even though Sancho has been given a lot of opportunities, it was counter productive to call him out post the Arsenal loss. I know people will say ETH was only answering a question, but he wasnt attached to a polygraph. You dodge the question and move on. Deal with your sh1t behind closed doors.
We dont know what other players think about this, but from what we are hearing in the media, others thought Sancho was treated unfairly, which adds another seed of doubt into the players heads. Another reason to dislike or doubt this manager.
Then, as you say, there is the money aspect. Yes, it was no secret that Sancho was an underperforming, overpaid lazy so and so, but this situation has made him even more difficult to shift. If Ten Hag wanted him out, you manage him out. Find a suiter who may be willing to take his wages on for a low transfer fee, giving ETH some money to play with in January. Instead, the best we can hope for now is a loan where MUFC pay most, if not all of the salary.
For me, this is a massive self-own from ETH. All on the back of him making a comment in a presser because he was frustrated with the result.
You're comparing Sancho's best with the rest's worst. Let's not forget Sancho lost his place in the squad (and then in the bench) to those very same guys.
The rest of the comments have been discussed ad infinitum/ad nauseam so we're not getting back on that. Basing arguments about "what we're hearing from the media" is weak though.
Not suggesting Sancho would have come in and have been fantastic at a time when everyone else is dross. Clearly, he is no Bryan Robson.
I mean, half the of discussion on the Caf is from the media.
Sancho has been frozen out for 2 months. Not saying our poor form has been because of this, but if you were to review the decision now, you would have to say that is has been a net negative for the squad.
Can't wait to see the outcome of ETH's one-to-one meeting with Sancho on how to fix things up.
That's your view but IMO this isn't on TH mate.
He answered a question honestly, he didn't embelish his response by slagging sancho off, he just said that he wasn't training well enough to make the first team squad.
Who judges whether a player is training well enough? The first team coach does that and, as TH is the first team coach when he says that a player isn't training well enough for selection for the match day squad then that's how it is and there's no argument.
Sancho could've responded by getting his head down and working his socks off, like an adult would, but he threw a childish hissy fit and picked a fight with TH by, in effect, calling him a liar on social media.
Do you really think that sancho was training well and that TH is some kind of evil a vindictive monster who just decided to pick on poor little sancho and drop him from the match day squad for shits and giggles then lie about his reasoning afterwards?
No, of course not.
Sancho has form for being an entitled lazy arse. I was hoping that he'd grow out of it and bring a bit of excitement to the PL but he's gone backwards.
I recon that he's just not got sufficient mental capacity to be in employment anywhere.
As Tom Jones famously said "it's not unusual". There are plenty of examples of brilliantly skilled players who had short careers because they had shit for brains.
Look at that Balotelli fella they had at city and then iirc at the dippers, he was a superb footballer, he could do things with a ball that truly great footballers couldn't even do in their dreams but he wasn't worth employing because he had the brains of a child in nursery . Look at Paul Gasgoine, Gazza was another superbly talented footballer but wasn't playing with a full deck of cards and his career path shows it.
It's a shame to see talent wasted but a player like sancho who doesn't have a functioning brain is no different to a player with a brilliant footballing mind but legs that don't work . . they need fitness, talent and intelligence to be successful for any length of time and sancho has the kind of mental fortitude that would've got him sacked from macdonalds by now if his talent hadn't taken him on a path to undeserved riches and a life so far from his ability to cope that he just gave up, got off the ride and sat in bed playing computer games all night.
Ten Hags fault? Well only if he stole sancho's brains and stuffed a wet sock in the hole they used to occupy.
Sancho is a man child. Very thin skinned. The response tweet was immature and ill thought out. We know that, so Ten Hag should too.
Not every player is going to respond well to what could be perceived as public criticism. A manager should know this.
We all know the story of the United players being told by Fergie to attend a gala in club suit and tie. Cantona turn up in a Nike trackie. The players thought he was in for a bollocking but Fergies says "let Eric be Eric". Now, Sancho is no Cantona, clearly, but good managers know how to manage individuals.
It had been reported in the Athletic that Sancho felt he was being singled out by Ten Hag. Also, that it was felt ETH was playing favorites. Ten Hag leaves the disagreement open post the Friday training ground argument, then airs it publicly post a defeat Sunday.
Fergie would always say that you deal with these things behind closed doors. Ten Hag took the dispute into the public arena. If stories are true, it has pissed off other players.
Plus, what gets me, Sancho gets grilled for not putting it in in training. How about the countless number of players that are not putting it in on the field? Where is the consistency there?
We paid 4 times the money we paid for Kagawa to get the new Kagawa. Actually, he might be more useless. And worst part is we chased him for two season for the RW position and then he came here and has played most of his games on the left; even under Ole, the manager who got him to play on the right. Another utter shambles of a signing.
Doesn't have the mentality. Doesn't have the physicality. Doesn't have the punctuality.
One of the those footballers who just "want to have fun" on the field and get paid for it without putting too much effort. I would pay him off in full even, if that's what it takes to get this waster out of this club. This guy is a bad apple.
Doesn't have the mentality. Doesn't have the physicality. Doesn't have the punctuality.
One of the those footballers who just "want to have fun" on the field and get paid for it without putting too much effort. I would pay him off in full even, if that's what it takes to get this waster out of this club. This guy is a bad apple.
Love that.Just a waste of talent. If he (allegedly) would rather play video games until the early hours instead of knuckling down, in a couple of years he will be saying "what if?". The vast majority of us here would gnaw their right arm off to have a fraction of his talent . Just a shame he hasn't (apparently), the discipline to use that talent.
You’ve been spot on in this thread. I want to add that, with every day that passes, Sancho comes out of this looking better because he is the guy that left the ship before it sank!
Ten Hag did not need to throw Sancho under the bus like that, especially in light of his pre-existing mental health issues and the social media pile-on that would inevitably follow. Keeping Sancho out of the team would have been a sufficient punishment. What Ten Hag did was so unnecessarily rash and over the top. It wasn’t like he was calling out a star and stamping his authority in a respectable way. He did it to a bit-part young player who is already going through the motions starting from that penalty miss. It comes across as bullying behaviour and an abuse of power.
It’s ironic that Ten Hag hides behind his failed attempts to implement the United DNA to excuse his non-existent style of play. United’s DNA is that we are family club with the “them vs. us” mentality that Sir Alex cultivated. How Ten Hag handled the Sancho situation showed that he cannot handle a club of this magnitude. It generated headlines and created a social media storm that is another off-pitch distraction, as if we don’t have enough of these scandals and crises already (the ownership matter, Greenwood, Antony)!
Moreover, I said it as soon as it happened, and it is becoming clearer now following the reports. What Ten Hag did to Sancho will make him lose the dressing room. While a manager is meant to protect his players, they likely saw how Ten Hag scapegoated Sancho and probably thought he could do it to them next. Now there are leaks/reports that the players don’t like him on a personal basis. It’s reported that the dressing room is unhappy about how he stripped Maguire of the captaincy, that his recent comments about needing to play better football were a dig at Casimero and that publicly stating that Varane was dropped for tactical reasons was uncalled for. With each of these incidents, you could logically conclude that sympathy for Sancho is growing.
What makes Ten Hag’s handling of the Sancho situation even more damning is that, on footballing grounds, it is becoming clear why Sancho has every right to feel aggrieved. He played well in pre-season as a false 9. By coming deep, he opened up space for Rashford to run-in behind. Yet when the season started he only got two paltry substitute appearances from the left-wing! To worsen matters, Rashford and Hojlund only have 4 goals between them (only 1 in the league). They can’t play together. Hojlund can’t create for Rashford, nor can Rashford create for Hojlund. They need a player like Sancho to be the glue and bring out the most out of them.
Ten Hag is dying on his sword with the Sancho situation, but what is the price? Sympathy for Sancho grows with every day that he is forced lunch in his car and can’t even come into the dressing room. Ten Hag banished him to assert control of the dressing room, yet he has clearly lost it. Sancho undermines his authority day by day because he refuses to apologise. Sancho’s teammates probably have sympathy for him given that he a) deleted the statement and b) felt forced into issuing it to change the narrative about his lack of professionalism following the totally uncalled for public attack by his manager.
On top of all of that, he has banished a player that may combine well with our £70 signing and star player, who are both disastrously out of form.
As it stands, Sancho’s calculations that he will outlast Ten Hag are probably correct. However, Ten Hag’s cultists are unlikely to see it from Sancho’s perspective and his own days at United are likely numbered unless he pulls rabbits out of a hat.
I love your optimism, your Sancho the phoenix rising from the ashes vision but there’s a time when you’ve got to give up and now’s about that time.
Let’s face it, if players aren’t putting in a shift on match day, but Sancho not only can’t get a berth in the match day squad but also can’t get a berth in the full senior squad and is training with the little kiddies, then what do you think that says about sancho?
It says that no matter how shite some players are, Sancho can’t get to wear the jersey because he’s even more shite.
He‘s the rising star equivalent of that svelte girl we all fell in love with at 16 . . . and the next time we saw her she was 35, had a beer gut, vomit breath, a face tattoo and some of that pink hair that the real mingers go for.
He was on the way to being wonderful but he missed the turning and went into a ditch . . what ‘s the betting he ends up with a face tattoo, a beer gut, vomit breath and some mingers pink hair eh?
He's still very young and could still be a late bloomer, even with his early Dortmund era behind him. Has happened plenty before.
No matter what the reason is behind all this behind the scenes, I hope he does turn things around for himself.
Would be a shame to have so many Cassano's, Balotelli's, Ihattarens, etc. who all seemed to miss seemingly very graspable better careers.
Even if it's at a rival (though I personally don't really care about that animosity), the more good (and mentally sound/healthy?) players, the merrier.
well then, prepare some extra antidepressants.i have..hah
This farse! Just settle it and get him back in training already.
Tend to agree with some of this. Antony is garbage and plays every week. I wonder exactly what he is doing in training. There were suggestions from eTH that some of the young players were giving 100% and couldnt be dropped from the squad, so at what point do they actually get to play?
I hope Sancho leaves the club in January and never wears the shirt again in the meantime.
What a fecking bellend he is. Absolute man child. Completely devoid of professionalism, completely devoid of determination, completely devoid of responsibility, completely devoid of maturity.
Imagine thinking we could ever succeed with this sort of mentality in the team.
Even without all these issues, he's been fecking shit. One of the worst transfers in the clubs history. Can't wait to see him gone.
What a fecking bellend he is. Absolute man child. Completely devoid of professionalism, completely devoid of determination, completely devoid of responsibility, completely devoid of maturity.
Imagine thinking we could ever succeed with this sort of mentality in the team.
Even without all these issues, he's been fecking shit. One of the worst transfers in the clubs history. Can't wait to see him gone.
A compromise needs to happen, pair of stubborn idiots have taken long enough as it is...
Yeah, the biggest issue- larger one than Sancho and the merits of ETH's approach - is the larger 'lack of accountability' senior players have for performances, when young players are (supposedly)making their cases in training. Given how disjointed the midfield was, why aren't we see Mainoo playing at least 30 mins against Fulham, why did Gore get no minutes against Newcastle after relatively impressing in previous cup games.? What about a 10 to put pressure on Bruno, if Mount isn't trusted there. ETH isn't doing well with the existing side, and isn't properly promoting young talent, which should cause serious questions to be raised, and is something his defenders overlook. Hopefully our new investment/sporting directorship have a clear-eyed appreciation of these faults and guve him an ultimatum.
This failing also goes for recruitment strategies, which he's been part of; we're failing to invest in young players for areas of the side with deficits, a trend which has been gong on for years; part of the reason why people were backing RR for SD was that he not only identified this but suggested a number of names in key midfield along with defensive and forward positions who subsequently went on to do well and go for/become valued at more than we would have had to pay for them.
I never said Sancho would come back and prove himself. There is almost a zero% chance of that happening.
My point has been that if ETH doesnt want him, manage him out. Don't further devalue an asset by making him train with the kids.
That is not happening. It is near impossible now. Just think about the fan reaction to a Sancho return, even if ETH was to leave. There would be boo's from the OT fans.
This just simply shows our transfer conduct post-Fergie has been so poor mostly. It is one of the main factors so many managers failed. The Glazers are the one to blame.