If the top teams got all the money and the likes of Wolves got feck all, then the the league in general would be less competitive and the overall product would be inferior.
European Super League
- Thread starter esmufc07
- Start date
Theres a bit of a chicken and egg situation there. Does the PL have more big teams because of money from tv deals or does it have more money from tv deals because of so many big teams. I'd say its a bit of a feedback loop.
And the way people talk about the league helps tbh. Burnley are basically given a big thumbs up and people talk about how well they're doing on their budget with this squad and how great their workrate and organisation is. Reality is they're pretty run of the mill. But it gives the impression that they're an interesting challenge, an interesting contrast to the Manchester Uniteds and Liverpools of the league. And they go some way towards backing that up with the distribution towards tv rights. It all helps.
I'd say in theory it could have been difficult to really sell a premier league with Leicester as the biggest team in the league, with arsenal and spurs challenging. But people loved it, everywhere. I dont think the financial value of the premier league has any objective basis in the quality relative to other leagues in europe. Its all salesmanship and bluster. Its created an seriously unequal balance of power and is probably going to hurt the champions league going forward. Or more than it already has really. I'm not sure what the solution to that is tbh. I think la liga in particular has to rethink how they sell the idea of their league, they could and should be able to compete with the premier league.
I don't think they need to either but this has become a huge public story and their name is getting mentioned, so it's probably in their best interest to
distance themselves to avoid any residual reputational damage.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
So he knows criminals well, but not CEOs who stay on the right side of the law and don't get sent to prison.
If there's one good thing to come out of the ESL, hopefully it's a change in owners and ownership structures.
Chelsea, Arsenal... hopefully more to come.
Chelsea, Arsenal... hopefully more to come.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Very interesting.
Now we will be able to see which is the real power fans have to change things on their own.
So along with United fans, Arsenal fans are continuing the protests also fair play to them.
I imagine it won't be long before City fans come out in their tens to protest against Mansour and their UAE owners. Yeah not fecking likely.
I'm not sure it's on their own. Owners like the Glazers are too thick skinned to be bothered by a few thousand fans protesting and Presidents like Perez are too egotistical, ignorant, hypocritical and mindbogglingly stupid to care what anyone else in the world thinks.
It still needs social media, media, sponsor pressure, Govts as well but I'm not sure any of them will do anything without fan pressure so the more protests the better.
You just never know.
imo.
Well depends what the traffic's like that day.
Both of those sets of fans already hated their owners. They’re using this to reinforce the message - our owners had a lot of credit in the bank with the fans. It’s very different.
We can’t pretend those protests are because of the Super League alone, that was just the final straw.
Nice hyperbole, Uefa and fifa are full of corrupt people who would be in prison were it not for the protection of the opaque structures of these organisations, not to mention being based in that secretive jurisdiction of Switzerland (which I’m sure is entirely for footballing reasons)...
I know emotions are high over the ESL, but I don’t like how uefa and fifa are coming out of it almost as good guys, one thing I agree with the ESL view is that we need a wholesale change in how the game is governed. Too many politicians and bureaucrats who don’t even care about the game or fans, just an opportunity to make lots of money.
Football is where it is thanks to UEFA and FIFA. Like any successful organisation it has attracted crooks and con-men. But their role is vital.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Summary:
- Bruce Buck was the one involved in discussions for a Super League, other conspirators were never convinced Abramovich was keen on the SL. Particularly with respect to Russian Teams and Sponsors in the CL.
- Organisers of the Super League were more interested in negotiating with Levy than Spurs, he has championed the Super League idea for a while
- Henry and Glazer started speaking regularly to each other when City started posing a threat, especially when City suppoesdly breached FFP. Kroenke was another willing ally
- The idea that Chelsea signed up late seems untrue, Buck concluded that the elite clubs had to sign up with Real Madrid or risk being left behind, implying to me at least that he was involved in discussions
- Ed Woodward supposedly acted as the person who was a realist about discussions, what Soriano (City) would call Dr No. Woodward caved the day after the Super League was announced and called Glazer to say he couldn't back the project, as Neville was talking about him Woodward had already quit.
- Conversely, European sources say Woodward hadn't opposed the SL and only resigned when the plan went awry
- Woodward expected the SL to succeed despite him resigning and is now wondering if he acted too hastily
- City were the club Perez was talking about when they said one club had no interest an it affected all the rest
- City could've aligned themselves with PSG/Bayern but those two are regarded as Qatari funded and so siding with them seemed unthinkable. FFP was also a factor, in that they still hold a grudge against UEFA
- None of the organisers expected the government intervening, the UK's Envoy to the Gulf contacted the UAE to warn it could damage Abu Dhabi's relationship with the UK. Abu Dhabi decided it did not want it to become a diplomatic incident
- InHouse Communications, the PR company, was brought in because it was perceived to be close to the PM, after being involved in his 2008 London Mayoral campaign
- The bigger problem was that none of the Chairmen/senior board members wanted to execute the PR strategy that had been planned.
- Abramovich and Mansour never spoke anyway but Levy was considered not important enough to take the lead and Kroenke was not part of the core group led by the Glazers and Perez
- The Glazers did not want to go in front of cameras and Henry was not keen either, nobody wanted to be the one to do it, despite people telling them they needed to convince the public
- The SL found out via the media that City/Chelsea were pulling out
- The organisation was done via Zoom/Whatsapp/phone calls. One group of the owners, then a separate one for the executives. Some privates groups of certain groupings too.
- When it was announced, a lot of the clubs were finding out details from the press release rather than from discussions beforehand
- Chelsea started telling department heads on Friday that they were joining but the language made clear that it had been some time in planning
- Chelsea is owned for reputational purposes, like City. Chelsea's directors realised that if they tried to stick it out, Abramovich's reputation could be ruined with the supporters and that could not be allowed to happen
- City had nothing to lose by withdrawing as they don't really have a relation with other clubs in the PL. Soriano gets on better with Perez
- The Super League was being talked about in 2016, Ed Woodward and Ivan Gazidis were invited to give their opinions on it by others in the ECA. Woodward showed little enthusiasm
- Bayern were keen enough on the idea in 2016 to check if they could leave in the Bundesliga, but there was strong resistance from their supervisory board and it never went anywhere
- Part of the reason the Big 6 made the leap is because the 14 dislike them more now under Masters than when Scudamore was in charge
- Klopp has made his feelings clear to Gordon about the SL, FSG were warned about this beforehand and Klopp is still disappointed despite apologies
- A foreign Liverpool player was confused before Leeds as to why they were being booed
- Henderson mobilised Liverpool opposition after the Leeds game, his leadership was amazing and the rest of the players were all behind him. All of them regard the CL as the pinnacle and did not like the closed shop
- A lot of the Arsenal players dislike Kroenke, going back to the pay-cut and subsequent sacking of club staff. The players are increasingly questioning the owner
- Levy was infuriated in 2016 when the other 5 of the big 6 were invited to meet an executive from the International Champions Cup
- Joe Lewis, the Spurs owner, seems to have been part of the group and likely in on this. But Levy was the one involved in negotiations and was very intent on joining
- The SL organisers insist they were deadly serious about financing the women's game to an extent that would make it more on a level with the mens game
- The money is regarded as absolutely necessary for Madrid because of their stadium and wanting Haaland/Mbappe
- One board member from a Super League club abstained from the vote in the board on joining because he was so torn
- The potential bans of clubs from the CL/EL are regarded as not financially sensible as these clubs are the main money generators, but there is anger from a lot of clubs on the continent
- Agnelli is denying resigning but it does not seem sustainable for a man hated by UEFA and Serie A to be in charge
- Woodward is leaving in the summer, ignore the PR spin about it being the end of the year
Thats a narrative buster. Especially with the Chelsea spin
Meanwhile per other thread quotes from Perez:
Looks to me like a new variant of the super league will be back soon. Probably with Merit based qualification of some kind and potential access to all European leagues one way or another.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Looks to me like a new variant of the super league will be back soon. Probably with Merit based qualification of some kind and potential access to all European leagues one way or another.
Ceferin gave himself a Euro 400,000 salary raise in this pandemic year.
His salary is now Euro 1.9 Million.
Criminals ?!
Ceferin is a bit of a hypocrite. He talks a lot about values and such, but when necessary, it doesn't bother him to involve politics in sport or praise scum like Nasser Al-Khelaifi.
Great post, thanks.
I do not want to brag but when everybody was having doubts about the current MU manager, I was fully confident that he was the best choice to fill in the boots of sir Ferguson .Big clubs and lesser clubs should unite cause they live off each other and should not cave in to any PRO testers out there to ruin what is left.
Not rip, real, barça, milan and juve still in
So Woodward isn’t the baddy?
Der Spiegel
Yeah it was a joke mate we all know the vast majority of City fans don't give a feck about City's owners or where the money comes from and aren't protesting shit now.
Were there even any significant super league protests from man city fans?
All I can remember seeing was a banner at the Etihad.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Wasn't it widely reported all this week that the billions to set it up were a loan?
Each club would get 300-40 million Euros i can remember reading.
Don't believe that for a second. It's spin from his mates in the media.
This thing has been in creation for 4 years and only now he realised he hates it? How about resigning years ago and announcing it to the world?
Plus, him hating it suggests he has some football knowledge and morals. I think we all know that's the furthest stretch of the imagination in this whole saga.
Yes. They were confident they would get it off the ground in terms of TV revenue.
The 3.5bn from JP Morgan would have to be repaid over 23 years to the tune of 6.1 in the end.
The clubs were also planning to stream their own games and make them pay-per-view. We would have ended up paying A LOT MORE because the figure for TV rights talked about is something like 5bn/year which is 5x of what all EPL clubs get now. All this info was in the FT.
So apparently JPMorgan was the middleman and the financing was to come from the Saudi's.
It’s insane that you thought this was even remotely fine and that there was “no valid reason” for people losing their shit. Amazing.
You dont have to agree with something to do your job. Hell City signed up without liking it (apparently)
the figure for tv rights income would be much higher than the epl because the superleague was supposed to have the top premier teams, madrid and barcelona, bayern, etc
The fact they wanted to do this, but still be in the PL as well. The greedy articles. They honestly forget that a lot of their fans are not made of money.
The more I think about it the more convinced I become it’s going to happen in some format. This was the opening gambit - a power play they knew could fail. Johnson said “it wouldn’t happen in this format” - which I think was key wording.
Top 4 (maybe 6 from EPL and less from other leagues as they now control if this happens) from domestic leagues in 5 major leagues - 5th gets placed in summer knockout contest along with rest of European champions to get wildcard entry - that contest becomes the richest game in football ala playoffs - rest then go into second league or something - win that competition you gain entry to next years super league.
The results against domestic opponents will be taken from the domestic league games thus avoiding the scenario of United - Liverpool playing each other 6 times - and protecting the domestic leagues.
This format protects the domestic leagues, gives clear entry based on merit into tournament, adds more money for everyone with the solidarity payments, guarantees more big games from big teams for sponsors and TV money and also adds a new hugely lucrative tournament in the summer to gain entry. It’s not even that different from the UEFA one - it’s just less teams. Still screws the smaller European clubs though.
Top 4 (maybe 6 from EPL and less from other leagues as they now control if this happens) from domestic leagues in 5 major leagues - 5th gets placed in summer knockout contest along with rest of European champions to get wildcard entry - that contest becomes the richest game in football ala playoffs - rest then go into second league or something - win that competition you gain entry to next years super league.
The results against domestic opponents will be taken from the domestic league games thus avoiding the scenario of United - Liverpool playing each other 6 times - and protecting the domestic leagues.
This format protects the domestic leagues, gives clear entry based on merit into tournament, adds more money for everyone with the solidarity payments, guarantees more big games from big teams for sponsors and TV money and also adds a new hugely lucrative tournament in the summer to gain entry. It’s not even that different from the UEFA one - it’s just less teams. Still screws the smaller European clubs though.
Oh I had no doubt direct club PPV would have been involved.
Why would most of the english clubs agree to make it merit based. Their big problem is they aren't guaranteed a spot in a merit based competition which CL is, which leads to financial instability for them.
Also if you add a esl europa wouldn't that just be what European comps are currently just without uefa, their whole esl idea is based on small teams of Europe are liabilities to big clubs and they take up money that should go to these big clubs. How would adding small clubs work if they don't get a fair share?
Because it’ll never pass without the other 14 voting for it. The other 14 aren’t going to allow entry to a tournament that gets huge revenues unless they have a chance of sharing the pie too. For all Sky have been leading the masses into believing greed is unique to the owners of these 6 clubs - maybe people should have a look at the owners of the other PL clubs. They’re interested in increasing revenues too oddly enough.
Where is that rumour from?
If true then I'm even more delighted the SL died on its arse.