F1 2021 Season

TheMagicFoolBus

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Why is Perez a billion miles behind? Doesn't he drive a redbull car as well?
To be fair, he was completely dehydrated as he didn't have a drink and was racing in Texas. Once it became clear he wasn't catching Hamilton he focused on managing his race to secure the podium.

Also he blew the doors off Bottas all weekend, who could barely get past an inferior car with a damaged front wing.
 

dinostar77

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Very interesting... a safety car... a mistake and all of a sudden there can be a big change

I fancy Max/ red bull based on nothing more than the red bull seems to have handled high temperatures well and of course we have some pretty hot tracks left

Mexico, Brazil, Qatar, Saudi and Abu Dhabi

I wouldn't be surprised if either max or Lewis got a dnf at one of them though and that could make a huge difference
A dnf could decide this championship.

Also your right, the RB is better at high temperature tracks than Mercedes.
 

sun_tzu

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A dnf could decide this championship.

Also your right, the RB is better at high temperature tracks than Mercedes.
With each of them likley to be pushing hard... no engines left (without penalties) and some circuits that are pretty tough on engines left I really think one of them having a dnf or serious engine issues is more probable than not
 

Cheimoon

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I feel like I heard Lewis must have another engine change. I thought he just had one? Perhaps I misheard?
Only a partial change I think, cause the rest of the engine was still in good state. Maybe that detoriated more and quicker than expected?
 

redshaw

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Exciting race, we've seen Rosberg and Bottas make mistakes under pressure, Max is just too good.

Don't think Merc had the pace to make any strategy work, Red Bull had them covered but maybe Merc left it one or two laps late to pit for the best chance, he seemed to lose quite bit during the last lap before pitting. Lewis may have got a sneak into DRS range for a moment but I don't see him making it stick, just not enough extra pace to follow. Still great to see two fast top drivers going at it.
 

LoneStar

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There seems to be a fantasy narrative with some people on here that somehow Max is the underdog this year and has dragged a average RedBull car to greatness. If he was driving a Haas, then that Haas would be challenging for the title as well.

Takes all sorts.
It's been clear that the RB and Merc have been trading places for the fastest car all year. Seems to change from track to track, which is expected.

There is no fantasy that Max is driving a Haas level car with the majority of his fans. But he's been arguably the best driver this season. Made far less mistakes and has had a lot of bad luck.
 

pauldyson1uk

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I feel like I heard Lewis must have another engine change. I thought he just had one? Perhaps I misheard?
No you heard right, there is a change he could take another engine.
Mercedes not have a good time , they seem to have lost there invincibility tag.
Found this.
Olav Mol has shared more information about the Mercedes engine problems prior to qualifying. Valtteri Bottas has now put in his sixth combustion engine and it's not out of luxury. It took Mercedes a while to identify the problem, but Mol knows it is probably to do with the pneumatic valves.
At Mercedes they are shouting, 'No, it's different, we have another problem with the pneumatic valves. I heard that from Karun Chandhok. He said to me that he knows someone who works on those engines at the factory. That seems to be the problem."

Valve springs used to be used in Formula 1, but pneumatic valves have been used for some time now. "So basically they push those valves down with a puff of air and with a vacuum, they are brought back up again," Mol explains the operation. "There's a bottle on there, there's 200 bar open. That is so high. You'll never get that closed perfectly, also because air has to go out."

He continues: "Five percent leakage, they can ride out a whole race on that, that's all okay, but when it goes towards ten percent (like with George Russell in Austria) then you have to stop. Then you see one of those guys go in with a bottle and they re-pressurise the system to keep the engine running."
 

ArjenIsM3

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No you heard right, there is a change he could take another engine.
Mercedes not have a good time , they seem to have lost there invincibility tag.
Found this.
Olav Mol has shared more information about the Mercedes engine problems prior to qualifying. Valtteri Bottas has now put in his sixth combustion engine and it's not out of luxury. It took Mercedes a while to identify the problem, but Mol knows it is probably to do with the pneumatic valves.
At Mercedes they are shouting, 'No, it's different, we have another problem with the pneumatic valves. I heard that from Karun Chandhok. He said to me that he knows someone who works on those engines at the factory. That seems to be the problem."

Valve springs used to be used in Formula 1, but pneumatic valves have been used for some time now. "So basically they push those valves down with a puff of air and with a vacuum, they are brought back up again," Mol explains the operation. "There's a bottle on there, there's 200 bar open. That is so high. You'll never get that closed perfectly, also because air has to go out."

He continues: "Five percent leakage, they can ride out a whole race on that, that's all okay, but when it goes towards ten percent (like with George Russell in Austria) then you have to stop. Then you see one of those guys go in with a bottle and they re-pressurise the system to keep the engine running."
Take everything Olav Mol says with a bucket of salt. He spouts so much crap during his race commentary it's unreal. Viaplay beating Ziggo Sport to the F1 2022+ broadcasting rights in The Netherlands brings with it a lot of questions and one of those is whether they can find a better commentator. Shouldn't be that hard to be honest.
 

Adam-Utd

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No you heard right, there is a change he could take another engine.
Mercedes not have a good time , they seem to have lost there invincibility tag.
Found this.
Olav Mol has shared more information about the Mercedes engine problems prior to qualifying. Valtteri Bottas has now put in his sixth combustion engine and it's not out of luxury. It took Mercedes a while to identify the problem, but Mol knows it is probably to do with the pneumatic valves.
At Mercedes they are shouting, 'No, it's different, we have another problem with the pneumatic valves. I heard that from Karun Chandhok. He said to me that he knows someone who works on those engines at the factory. That seems to be the problem."

Valve springs used to be used in Formula 1, but pneumatic valves have been used for some time now. "So basically they push those valves down with a puff of air and with a vacuum, they are brought back up again," Mol explains the operation. "There's a bottle on there, there's 200 bar open. That is so high. You'll never get that closed perfectly, also because air has to go out."

He continues: "Five percent leakage, they can ride out a whole race on that, that's all okay, but when it goes towards ten percent (like with George Russell in Austria) then you have to stop. Then you see one of those guys go in with a bottle and they re-pressurise the system to keep the engine running."
That doesn't make any sense.

The valve system won't lose air due to engine wear, it's a sealed unit.

Look at this video below, it explains how a similar system would work. While the car does require air and fluids to run a lot of the systems, if they're having to retop up the air it's usually more due to a leak elsewhere.

As they also say, pnuematic valves are not a new technology to F1. There's no chance they've suddenly forgotten how to make these work. None of the other Mercedes customer's are having trouble with this either, so that also rules it out IMO.

Mercedes are just runnng their engines at full power in the fight with red bull. I doubt they've ever had to push them close to 100% in all races in recent years.

 

pauldyson1uk

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That doesn't make any sense.

The valve system won't lose air due to engine wear, it's a sealed unit.

Look at this video below, it explains how a similar system would work. While the car does require air and fluids to run a lot of the systems, if they're having to retop up the air it's usually more due to a leak elsewhere.

As they also say, pnuematic valves are not a new technology to F1. There's no chance they've suddenly forgotten how to make these work. None of the other Mercedes customer's are having trouble with this either, so that also rules it out IMO.

Mercedes are just runnng their engines at full power in the fight with red bull. I doubt they've ever had to push them close to 100% in all races in recent years.

Cheers , the vid explains a lot and I would agree, the valves are not the problem.
Running the engines at 100% wont help, they will not have had to do that many time before this season.
Other Merc engine users have had to replace engine this season , Aston and McLaren in the last race.
There is something clearly wrong other than the 100% running with the Merc engine this season.
Is the problem Mercedes are building for more customers and Honda just Red Bull and Toro Rosso
 

Camilo

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Time to ban pitstops altogether I think. One set of tyres, go. The "undercut" - what a load of nonsense, zero entertainment in that.
 

Abizzz

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Wait I thought they are using pneumatic valve springs, not free float type valves!? This changed recently?
 

ChaddyP

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It's part why the sport is so interesting. You need engineering brilliance, driving talent and strategic thinking.
Its part of the reason i love F1 so much. I have no horse in the race and my eyes were glued to the tv wondering what would happen. 2 different strategies, 2 different types of drivers and 2 totally different style of cars coming head to head in the final laps. If you complaining about that then I really think the sport will never deliver for you
 

The Firestarter

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Its part of the reason i love F1 so much. I have no horse in the race and my eyes were glued to the tv wondering what would happen. 2 different strategies, 2 different types of drivers and 2 totally different style of cars coming head to head in the final laps. If you complaining about that then I really think the sport will never deliver for you
I dont think it was a complaint because it wasn't entertaining, as I pointed out in my first reply.

Otherwise I agree with you. It was a fantastic race in a very exciting season. So much happening, not only in the top 3.
 

The Hilton

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There seems to be a fantasy narrative with some people on here that somehow Max is the underdog this year and has dragged a average RedBull car to greatness. If he was driving a Haas, then that Haas would be challenging for the title as well.

Takes all sorts.
There are multiple supporters of Max in the thread (some who just hate Lewis) who need that to be the narrative in order to make Max inevitably winning the championship more impressive than reality, which is that he's the fastest driver in the fastest car (which is still very impressive).

Still, its a thread that has had a poster list their 3 greatest drivers of all time as Schumacher, Senna, and Verstappen, so pretending the RB is slower is pretty tame in context.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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There are multiple supporters of Max in the thread (some who just hate Lewis) who need that to be the narrative in order to make Max inevitably winning the championship more impressive than reality, which is that he's the fastest driver in the fastest car (which is still very impressive).

Still, its a thread that has had a poster list their 3 greatest drivers of all time as Schumacher, Senna, and Verstappen, so pretending the RB is slower is pretty tame in context.
Key question is which Schumacher?
 

Camilo

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It's part why the sport is so interesting. You need engineering brilliance, driving talent and strategic thinking.
I just think it's dull. I'd be all for a return to the 50s - no radios, no pitstops, no tyre changing or refuelling, just cars on track. Driver vs driver, no excesses, no excuses. Strategy and teamwork just muddy the waters.
 

Jerch

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There are multiple supporters of Max in the thread (some who just hate Lewis) who need that to be the narrative in order to make Max inevitably winning the championship more impressive than reality, which is that he's the fastest driver in the fastest car (which is still very impressive).

Still, its a thread that has had a poster list their 3 greatest drivers of all time as Schumacher, Senna, and Verstappen, so pretending the RB is slower is pretty tame in context.
Well based on their second drivers Merc is the quicker car (especially since many rate Perez as a better driver of the 2).
In my opinion Merc and Red Bull are tied, on one track Merc is quicker, on another Red Bull is quicker.

Given how unlucky Verstappen was during this season basically DNF-ing 3 times without doing anything wrong, racing against one of the best drivers of all time in as quick car as he is, winning a championship would be impressive without any doubt.
 

The Hilton

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Well based on their second drivers Merc is the quicker car (especially since many rate Perez as a better driver of the 2).
In my opinion Merc and Red Bull are tied, on one track Merc is quicker, on another Red Bull is quicker.

Given how unlucky Verstappen was during this season basically DNF-ing 3 times without doing anything wrong, racing against one of the best drivers of all time in as quick car as he is, winning a championship would be impressive without any doubt.
The second driver thing is a smokescreen, Bottas has had years to learn the Merc whereas Perez is in his first year in a car that's set up entirely for Max's driving style, which really doesn't suit him.

The Red Bull has been the faster car for the majority of the season, bar a few races. There's no shame in that, the best car always delivers the champion, and Max has driven it brilliantly bar a few overly impetuous moments.
 

pauldyson1uk

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Andretti Autosport has reportedly walked away from a deal to take a majority interest in Sauber, a move that has likely brought an end to the American motorsport enterprise's ambitions of entering F1, at least in the near term.

According to reports, Andretti was set to acquire an 80% stake in Islero Investments, the entity owned by Swedish Billionaire Finn Rausing which owns Sauber Motorsport and its prime asset, the Alfa Romeo F1 team.

The two parties had apparently agreed on a purchase price for the 80% holding in Islero. However, Rausing also reportedly sought a five-year $50m-a-year payment to guarantee Sauber's presence on the grid in F1 to counter any potential future shortfall in sponsorship.

It is believed that Andretti baulked at the latter demand which came late in the day during the negotiations between the two parties. The condition suddenly put an unrealistic and stratospheric valuation on the Swiss outfit as far as Andretti was concerned.
 

sun_tzu

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Buster15

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Some more explanation of next years aero.
Really interesting insights into the 2022 F1 regulations and their potential effects. Even more interesting is going to be how the teams push the boundaries in order to maximise the opportunities.
 

Buster15

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Cringe....
Why cringe. It was all about the children, not Lewis Hamilton.
You only have to look at their faces to see the effect on them.
Why do we always criticise attempts to inspire the next generation.
 

Balljy

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To be fair, I think Brawn acknowledges that they have got a lot wrong with the format and some of the quotes in the article go some ay to improving the idea.

Brawn said that the decision to award pole position to the winner of the sprint race rather than the fastest driver over one lap was a mistake and that this had "clearly not been popular" with fans and drivers.

Among other matters likely to change are increasing the number of points available to enhance the drivers' desire to attack and race.

Brawn said he wants to increase the points on offer from the current three-two-one for the top three to an equivalent of about one-third of the points awarded for the main grand prix, and to a larger number of drivers.

Another option is to separate out the 'sprint' completely and make it a stand-alone event, by making qualifying set the grid for the grand prix as normal and decide the sprint-race grid another way.

Brawn said that while he was keen to introduce grids in reverse championship order for this, he felt that would "perhaps be a step too far" next year.
Removing the idea of the sprint race being for position in the main race and even reverse-grid in the long term would make it more sustainable. My main problem with it was how it affected the main race - it should be an event on its own.