Of course, why would we worry about circuits than has already been done on the calendar?I assume that with the bolded bit you mean remaining races, as otherwise its hard to take seriously.
Of course, why would we worry about circuits than has already been done on the calendar?I assume that with the bolded bit you mean remaining races, as otherwise its hard to take seriously.
Luck can change throughout a season. Max had horrendous luck earlier in the season, but recently had good luck with the rain in Sochi. The poster was simply saying that currently it's favouring Max, and for the title race to be anything other than a formality from here, it would require Max to switch back to getting bad luck.
The only reason the championship is even close is due to the DNFs for Max, otherwise he'd have it sewn up by now - the Red Bull has been a much faster car this year, with a couple of exceptions in recent races.
Its clear that since Mercedes were beaten convincingly by Red Bull at Red Bull ring they brought their engine to another level and has since then been the clear faster car. And the gaps seems to have increased since then even with the Red Bulls being outclassed in the dry in Turkey.1. Mercedes was much faster than Red Bull in Hungary qualifying
2. Mercedes looked significantly faster than Red Bull in Spa on Friday but rain blurred the picture.
3. Mercedes was much faster than Red Bull in Monza. The only reason why that wasn’t a straight forward Hamilton win was because his abysmal start in the sprint.
Mercedes has been the clear best car since that monstrous Silverstone upgrade. I recommend that you read this article:
https://the-race.com/formula-1/mark-hughes-verstappen-right-to-worry-about-mercedes-trend/
Not true at all. The RB has been class of the field all season. The Silverstone upgrades brought Mercedes closer to RB.In clean air on on a dry track the Merc is the faster car and has been all season. The ones driving it just haven't been on their game enough.
The high altitude tracks will obviously be a different case.
Where exactly do you get the idea that the Silverstone upgrade was at the expense of race pace? There is not a shred of evidence to support that.What a load of nonsense. "Anyone who is logical would agree with me". How childish.
The Silverstone upgrade was far from monstrous, they found some one lap pace at the expense of race pace, which is why they were still slower than Red Bull overall. Silverstone itself is a great example - the Merc qualified well, but in the sprint the RB disappeared off into the distance - a pattern we saw a lot before Sochi.
Merc have been undisputedly faster for the 2 most recent races, but before that they've been playing catch up.
We wouldn't, it was just the way it was worded. Just wanted to check.Of course, why would we worry about circuits than has already been done on the calendar?
The evidence was the actual race, it was quicker in qualifying but much slower in the race. Merc then lost the next few races whenever Max actually finished.Where exactly do you get the idea that the Silverstone upgrade was at the expense of race pace? There is not a shred of evidence to support that.
Obviously the Mercedes car is now a class of the field, and indeed the Silverstone upgrade was indeed massive. Look at the data, and how the average gap between them and other teams (not just Red Bull) has exploded.
It's actually impressive how much effort you've put into this post just to defend the honour of your beloved Max, filled with enough hyperbole to power a warp engine, and it's also very selective with regards to what constitutes luck in order to exaggerate, but I'm not gonna argue that stuff because you've spectacularly missed the point - as you've said yourself, the most recent gains due to luck were Max's, and the original post was that Lewis needs that luck to change - nothing to do with previous luck in the season, just that Max had some good luck recently.The luck Hamilton vs Verstappen - breakdown:
Italy - Hamilton runs into a wall and was set to come out dead last, also needing repairs and would not score a point - BEFORE Bottas instantly mirciously saved him by crashing with Russell causing a red flag, free repairs and no more positions lost for Lewis.
Points gained by Hamilton in the championship: +19 (VER 25, HAM 19)
--
Baku - Verstappen looking to win the race and take 25 points vs Hamiltons 15 before his tire blow out.
Points gained by Hamilton in the championship: +10 (VER 0, HAM 0)
-
Silverstone - Max leading the race setting to bag 25 vs 18 point to Lewis, before Lewis is causing a collision and is deemed guilty.
Points gained by Hamilton in the championship: +32 (VER 25, HAM 18 - became HAM 25, VER 0)
-
Hungary - Hamilton looking set to win and take 25 vs 18 Vs Verstappen before Bottas takes out both Red Bulls.
Points gained by Hamilton in the championship: +18
-
Monza - Hamilton set to score more points than Max before the collision. HAM 12 - VER 10)
Points gained by Verstappen in the championship: +2
-
Russia - Verstappen set to finish 7th and Hamilton 2nd before the rain comes in, HAM 18, VER 6 becames HAM 25, VER 18.
Points gained by Verstappen in the championship: +3
Total summary of points gained by sheer luck: Points gained by Lews 79 Vs Points gained for Verstappen 5.
Note, you could even note any points gained by Verstappen in Russia should not count because the engine change was a direct result of a Hamilton punished error, meaning Hamilton was responsible and lucky Max had to take an engine penalty.
If luck was not a thing the current championship standings would be:
Verstappen: 346.5
Hamilton: 262.5
Which leads us to The Hiltons next point:
You are absoulely right Max would have already clinched the WDC-title if not for all the bad luck explained above, but you are wrong about the reasons.
The reason Max would have won is that Lewis has made so many errors that without incredible luck would have given Max an aprox 70 point swing in the championship.
Mercedes has had the better race pace except for Baku and Monaco, Bahrain and Red Bull Ring x2. At Zandenvort Red Bull won on strategy, the Mercs were insanely quick.
Conclusion, the reason Verstappen should have clinched the title already is not because Red Bulls car has been better than Mercedes on the whole, its because Lewis has made endless of errors that he was incredible lucky not to pay for. Verstappen has been pretty much error free and outpeformed Lewis in every capacity, sadly that might not be enough to win the title because of Mercs unreal engine advantage.
Fair points.It's actually impressive how much effort you've put into this post just to defend the honour of your beloved Max, filled with enough hyperbole to power a warp engine, and it's also very selective with regards to what constitutes luck in order to exaggerate, but I'm not gonna argue that stuff because you've spectacularly missed the point - as you've said yourself, the most recent gains due to luck were Max's, and the original post was that Lewis needs that luck to change - nothing to do with previous luck in the season, just that Max had some good luck recently.
As for your comment about Mercedes having better race pace, it's just silly, the Mercs have been behind most of the year, and have only recently managed to get ahead (and it remains to be seen if that was due to the tracks).
I actually agree that Max has been the better driver this year, although not error free, but he's definitely had the better car. No shame in that, as most champions do.
Not much right in your post:It's actually impressive how much effort you've put into this post just to defend the honour of your beloved Max, filled with enough hyperbole to power a warp engine, and it's also very selective with regards to what constitutes luck in order to exaggerate, but I'm not gonna argue that stuff because you've spectacularly missed the point - as you've said yourself, the most recent gains due to luck were Max's, and the original post was that Lewis needs that luck to change - nothing to do with previous luck in the season, just that Max had some good luck recently.
As for your comment about Mercedes having better race pace, it's just silly, the Mercs have been behind most of the year, and have only recently managed to get ahead (and it remains to be seen if that was due to the tracks).
Yawn, another essay, all because you can't understand what "recent luck" means. Anyway given that you act like practice is more important than actual race pace to pretend the RB is slower than it is there's not much point in going into your post, the Merc could have a top speed of 10mph and you'd pretend it's the faster car.Not much right in your post:
1. I am Ferrari fan, not a Verstappen fan
2. I was not selective about what was luck, I could have excluded everything stemming from Lewis taking Max out at Silverstone but I did not.
3. Oh, the Mercs have been behind all year, and yet have a clear lead in the WCC.
The Mercs have been behind all year, but still 99% of all practices and Q sessions have ended:
Hamilton, Verstappen, Bottas in top 3. (in various order)
And then Perez somewhere between place 4 to 10.
So either both Lewis and Bottas have pulled of miracles each practice session or the Merc have not been behind all year.
Its much more likely its Verstappen that has made the difference and taken the Red Bull to where it does not belong. See Perez.
Only on a british forum full of Hamilton fans making things up to prop up their beloved Lewis is it possible to get to the conclusion that Red Bull definitely have had the better car, absolutely ridiculous.
Wrong, its demonstrably correct. Infordin is on point.The Merc has been faster in the last 2 races, one of which is known to suit the car better, and now we're heading to tracks that suit the RB. If Merc are still faster there, then you may have a point.
However, the idea that Merc were faster since Silverstone is demonstrably false, the Red Bull has been faster everywhere until Sochi.
Oh my god you're a religious zealot. It's not enough to write essays pumped full of hyperbole when replying in our conversation, you have to interject into my conversations with other people as well. You're far too emotionally attached to the idea that the Merc has been faster, when it's been the second best car on track most of the year.Wrong, its demonstrably correct. Infordin is on point.
Hungary. Mercs were quicker and Lewis were set to win even if Bottas has not taken the Red Bulls out.
Belgium. Mercs were quicker before the rain came, and then Lewis messed up qualifying.
Netherlands. Very even, Max had Lewis in his gearbox all race long and managed to win by the smallest margin. Lewis would have won easily if he had free air.
Italy, Mercs were clearly dominant over Red Bull, Hamilton was expected to pull away from Max after the pitstops, even Lewis own fans admitted that as they were enraged by the fact that Verstappen "stole a win from Lewis".
So basicly 3 races Mercs were quicker, and 1 were even and you are claiming Red Bull was quicker at all 4, completely absurd.
You are too emotionally attached to your beloved Lews to actually comprehend obvious facts clearly, but go ahead and live in an alternative pro-Lewis universe.Oh my god you're a religious zealot. It's not enough to write essays pumped full of hyperbole when replying in our conversation, you have to interject into my conversations with other people as well. You're far too emotionally attached to the idea that the Merc has been faster, when it's been the second best car on track most of the year.
You are too emotionally attached to your beloved Lews to actually comprehend obvious facts clearly, which is clear for anyone to see.
Its hilarious, you were the one starting with the "beloved one" and then you could not take it when you got it back. So you just labeled yourself a child, funny how it goes.
Such a child.
Leave me alone now please, annoy someone else with your anti Hamilton raging.
Flawless logic! I did get your motivation wrong though, I thought you were a pro Verstappen nutcase, when you're actually an anti Hamilton nutcase. Either way, you're living in a fantasy world ignoring how much faster the Red Bull has been most of the season.Its hilarious, you were the one starting with the "beloved one" and then you could not take it when you got it back. So you just labeled yourself a child, funny how it goes.
Definitely, you were the one starting with personal insults instead of debating the topic, and then when I answered with the same BS, you got upset and called me a child, that was really childish of you.Flawless logic! I did get your motivation wrong though, I thought you were a pro Verstappen nutcase, when you're actually an anti Hamilton nutcase. Either way, you're living in a fantasy world ignoring how much faster the Red Bull has been most of the season.
Hi I'm Lightbringer and I have a pathological need to continuously bash Lewis Hamilton to people who didn't ask for my opinion.Definitely, you were the one starting with personal insults instead of debating the topic, and then when I answered with the same BS, you got upset and called me a child, that was really childish of you.
Yeah, its amazing how Merc has that solid lead in the WCC when they allegedly have been less fast for most the year, really mindblowing the miracles The Benz have performed!
This is why I also believe that Mercedes is quicker than Red Bull. Bottas is constantly faster than Perez and by a good margin too.The Mercs have been behind all year, but still 99% of all practices and Q sessions have ended:
Hamilton, Verstappen, Bottas in top 3. (in various order)
And then Perez somewhere between place 4 to 10.
Definitely, you were the one starting with personal insults instead of debating the topic, and then when I answered with the same BS, you got upset and called me a child, that was really childish of you.
Yeah, its amazing how Merc has that solid lead in the WCC when they allegedly have been less fast for most the year, really mindblowing the miracles The Benz have performed!
Could the two of you please take it to PM to avoid derailing the thread.Hi I'm Lightbringer and I have a pathological need to continuously bash Lewis Hamilton to people who didn't ask for my opinion.
All the progress of the last few weeks lost. Funny how it all went south though only once a couple posters who hadn’t posted in that time have come back. Anyway, ill be staying away again until some sense returns.Could the two of you please take it to PM to avoid derailing the thread.
Could the two of you please take it to PM to avoid derailing the thread.
I've added the other poster to the ignore list, but you really can't put us in the same boat given that half my posts in the conversation were asking to be left alone.All the progress of the last few weeks lost. Funny how it all went south though only once a couple posters who hadn’t posted in that time have come back. Anyway, ill be staying away again until some sense returns.
… when, in classic F1 style, the rule changes will probably mean there is one dominant team againBoth Max & Hamilton have driven superbly this year, as evidenced by their huge points & performance margins to their teammates.
Both Mercedes & Red Bull have built brilliant machinery, pretty much maxing out the potential of the current regs at the end of their era and are neck & neck in terms of performance.
Enjoy the title run in. It’s not normally this close and fought between such worthy adversaries (both teams & drivers). People have their driver preferences and one will ultimately lose out at the end of the year, but guess what? We get to do it all again next year!
That would be awful, but given how restrictive the rules are and the noises coming out of the manufacturers, I'm pretty hopeful that it's going to really level the playing field.… when, in classic F1 style, the rule changes will probably mean there is one dominant team again
100%. I look forward to Lance Stroll winning the next 5 titles at a canter… when, in classic F1 style, the rule changes will probably mean there is one dominant team again
Driver | Team | Time |
---|---|---|
1) Valtteri Bottas | Mercedes | 1:34.874 |
2) Lewis Hamilton | Mercedes | +0.045 |
3) Max Verstappen | Red Bull | +0.932 |
4) Charles Leclerc | Ferrari | +1.460 |
5) Carlos Sainz | Ferrari | +1.634 |
6) Pierre Gasly | AlphaTauri | +1.737 |
7) Sergio Perez | Red Bull | +1.924 |
8) Lando Norris | McLaren | +1.981 |
9) Antonio Giovinazzi | Alfa Romeo | +2.000 |
10) Kimi Raikkonen | Alfa Romeo | +2.002 |
11) George Russell | Williams | +2.092 |
12) Esteban Ocon | Alpine | +2.096 |
13) Lance Stroll | Aston Martin | +2.098 |
14) Sebastian Vettel | Aston Martin | +2.108 |
15) Fernando Alonso | Alpine | +2.194 |
16) Daniel Ricciardo | McLaren | +2.584 |
17) Nicholas Latifi | Williams | +2.589 |
18) Yuki Tsunoda | AlphaTauri | +3.080 |
19) Mick Schumacher | Haas | +3.992 |
20) Nikita Mazepin | Haas | +7.365 |
Yes, Mercedes are very quick.Big time difference … any particular reason?
Teammates could be really important in the title race. Nicking a spot off Verstappen in a race or two could hand Hamilton the title so I suspect it's to let Bottas run at higher engine settings in the last few races.Mercedes pretty much confirming the recent thoughts that they have a much faster car, this is surely their championship now without mistakes. Those accidents with Max really mattered in the end unless Red Bull can pull some development out of thin air.
Interesting how Bottas has had to change his engine more than Hamilton.
WOW that is a cleaver trick.Mercedes appear to have figured out the rear suspension trick.