Mercedes are withdrawing, as expected.
F1 2021 Season
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
- Start date
Titles are remembered with stories. Everyone remembers the story behind Schumi's first. Hamilton's first. Alonso's double.
This will be Max's.
Fight the system
He is 7 times world champion. He is the system.https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/f1-agrees-to-ditch-mgu-h-as-part-of-new-engine-rules/6885625/
F1 agrees to ditch MGU-H as part of new engine rules
By:Jonathan Noble
Dec 15, 2021, 8:10 PM
Formula 1 chiefs have confirmed that the MGU-H will be dropped from power units from 2026 as part of a new rules shake-up.
The complicated technology, which generates electrical power from exhaust heat, has proven to be expensive and complex since it formed part of the new turbo hybrid rules that were introduced in 2014.
With F1 eager to attract new manufacturers from 2026, the presence of the MGU-H was viewed as a key part of the discussions.
For the Volkswagen Group, which is poised to enter F1 with either its Audi or Porsche brands, was reluctant to enter if the MGU-H remained.
It felt that the expense of developing the technology, which has limited road car application, plus the head start that current manufacturers had in understanding it, was not worth it and its continued presence could prompt it to elect to steer clear of joining.
Earlier in the summer, Mercedes F1 team boss Toto Wolff said the German manufacturer was willing to drop the MGU-H if other elements of the rules were agreed.
"I think it's a compromise that, I can't speak for anybody else, but at Mercedes, we are prepared to enter in order to facilitate the entry of the Volkswagen Group,” he said. “But there are several other topics where compromise needs to be found.”
During subsequent discussions between the current car makers and VW, it was agreed that the MGU-H could be dropped if other elements were put forward – such as a cost cap that ensured that new entrants would not trigger a fresh spending war.
That has now resulted in the FIA’s World Motor Sport Council confirming that there will be four central elements to the new powerunits that are coming for 2026.
They are that the current 1.6-litre V6 engine will be retained, electrical power will increase to 350kW, the MGU-H will be ditched and there will be a cost cap for engine development.
The FIA has also approved the outline concept of F1 running on 100 percent sustainable fuel alongside the increased electrical power boost.
One key element is also to ensure that the power units are attractive to fans.
The FIA said that it wanted a: “powerful and high-revving power unit, car performance, sound, drivers’ ability to race, avoiding excessive differentiation.”
F1 agrees to ditch MGU-H as part of new engine rules
By:Jonathan Noble
Dec 15, 2021, 8:10 PM
Formula 1 chiefs have confirmed that the MGU-H will be dropped from power units from 2026 as part of a new rules shake-up.
The complicated technology, which generates electrical power from exhaust heat, has proven to be expensive and complex since it formed part of the new turbo hybrid rules that were introduced in 2014.
With F1 eager to attract new manufacturers from 2026, the presence of the MGU-H was viewed as a key part of the discussions.
For the Volkswagen Group, which is poised to enter F1 with either its Audi or Porsche brands, was reluctant to enter if the MGU-H remained.
It felt that the expense of developing the technology, which has limited road car application, plus the head start that current manufacturers had in understanding it, was not worth it and its continued presence could prompt it to elect to steer clear of joining.
Earlier in the summer, Mercedes F1 team boss Toto Wolff said the German manufacturer was willing to drop the MGU-H if other elements of the rules were agreed.
"I think it's a compromise that, I can't speak for anybody else, but at Mercedes, we are prepared to enter in order to facilitate the entry of the Volkswagen Group,” he said. “But there are several other topics where compromise needs to be found.”
During subsequent discussions between the current car makers and VW, it was agreed that the MGU-H could be dropped if other elements were put forward – such as a cost cap that ensured that new entrants would not trigger a fresh spending war.
That has now resulted in the FIA’s World Motor Sport Council confirming that there will be four central elements to the new powerunits that are coming for 2026.
They are that the current 1.6-litre V6 engine will be retained, electrical power will increase to 350kW, the MGU-H will be ditched and there will be a cost cap for engine development.
The FIA has also approved the outline concept of F1 running on 100 percent sustainable fuel alongside the increased electrical power boost.
One key element is also to ensure that the power units are attractive to fans.
The FIA said that it wanted a: “powerful and high-revving power unit, car performance, sound, drivers’ ability to race, avoiding excessive differentiation.”
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Was about to post that. Mercedes officially withdraw their appeal.
Masi gets away with it. Or maybe he gets a pay rise even. I don't know what this sport stands for, really, anymore.
Yes boys come on! I bet Lewis pressured Mercedes not to appeal. He's been a class act since straight after the race. Max didn't deserve the WDC to be taken from him. Lewis deserved better as well during the race so big respect to him. His fans could learn from him.
Might as well shut the book there and close the thread.
As expected from Mercedes. Roll on 2022
As expected from Mercedes. Roll on 2022
Nah I'm just saying this is obviously a massive exercise in face-saving all round, from FIA and Mercedes.
"We had an unbeatable case but Hamilton didn't want us to" is better than "we were going to lose at the FIA court and weren't even allowed by the regs to take it any further than that."
If they had an unbeatable case according to their own lawyer and were able to take it to a higher court they would have.
I wanted it to go through the CAS courts just so we could at least have on record what we all know, that the FIA acted unjustly and manufactured the ending they wanted. I can understand why Hamilton and Mercedes wouldn't want to go through that process and for it to be a distraction heading into the new season (doesn't it usually take months to get a ruling with CAS?).
That's got a behind closed doors agreement written all over it.
Masi to be 'promoted' away from race control in 3, 2, 1...
We don't know when that photo was taken. Probably a stock photo.
I do think that this is the most sensible outcome i e. making the best out of a bad job.
Most serious people understand what has happened and it is now time to put all of that behind us and move on to 2022.
My main hope is that Masi gets a very severe bollicking from the FIA and the rules are tightened up to prevent any further manipulating of a race outcome.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Strong words.
Well I don't think it was ever going to CAS, but going to appeal in the FIA courts would mean they would be forced to explain the dirty laundry in public. You have to have an appeal result and a detailed explanation.
With the statement from the FIA last night, it looks they admit the situation was not perfect and are going to explain themselves anyway. So I guess in hindsight, Mercedes no longer need to appeal. Still it would have been nice to see the FIA take a side on this in legal black and white, about whether they support race fixing for TV or not.
Whatever.
With the statement from the FIA last night, it looks they admit the situation was not perfect and are going to explain themselves anyway. So I guess in hindsight, Mercedes no longer need to appeal. Still it would have been nice to see the FIA take a side on this in legal black and white, about whether they support race fixing for TV or not.
Whatever.
Last edited:
Yeah I'm really disappointed with Mercedes about this - I know Lewis was pushing not to drag this out, but frankly the fans deserve a lot better, and need assurance that it's worth tuning in to the races, rather than just catching the last lap of the last race to see who Masi has decided is gonna win.
Are you an infant?
still the Fantasy league to be done yet, they have not updated as yet.
I will post later if they do.
If Lewis didn’t come out and act classy all hell would have broke loose. Being classy is literally the only thing he could have done to not look like a sore loser (which he wouldn’t have been if he did object).Obviously the likelihood of getting a fair judgement must have weighed in. I don't understand how you, or single journalists, can categorically rule out CAS involvement when CAS has been relied upon to settle disputes in the past. I understand that the teams have signed a waiver to settle things infront if ICA instead, however I don't see why that waiver itself couldn't be challenged infront of CAS. What else would the point of CAS be?
If anything this waiver has made F1, FIA and their race director even more shady to me. Why would you ask your business partners to waive the possibility to challenge your judgements if you weren't planning on using them with impunity?
F1 as a sport is dying. Maybe Max is the first winner of a new era. Net flix.
Uh, no?
Hamilton is a true competitor who doesn't want to win his record 8th title with appeals I presume.
What a joke. Masi and FIA now have carte blanche to apply the rules as they see fit.
I wouldn't mind seeing Merc getting screwed over by them again. They'd deserve it.
I wouldn't mind seeing Merc getting screwed over by them again. They'd deserve it.
Unlike Max who doesn't seem to have any problems with the way he was handed the title.
He'll likely win a few more in the future but this one will always be referred to as THAT one title.
FIA will have had to make some serious commitment for the future F1 integrity to enable this.
It's a shame because the FIA will get away whitewashing this farce so it'll take alot to restore fans faith in F1 being a real sport.
Net Fix.
If Masi stays in place for next year, F1 as a sport is done.
Exactly this, any agreement that says they can't go to CAS would be superceded by their intrinsic rights. All sporting teams have the opportunity to take their ruling bodies to CAS, but there are a plethora of reasons why they might not anyway.
Not for us Dutch folk and many others judging by YouTube comments. He won the race on track. Dubious circumstances sure, but for once he had luck and he gets to enjoy it like our whole nation is. Lewis was lucky a couple times this season, let's not forget. This time it -finally - went Verstappen's way. In the UK his title might have an asterisk, but the rest of the world is mostly happy for Max.
I can only laugh at people so gullible, or biased I guess, to believe this had anything to do with Lewis wanting it dropped or lack of a case
It's a pretty frame is all.
Anyway, now what some of us have been saying since the moment the race ended has finally been confirmed, time to move on.
It's a pretty frame is all.
Anyway, now what some of us have been saying since the moment the race ended has finally been confirmed, time to move on.
As someone pointed out earlier, there's a big difference between luck and the fabrication that happened on Sunday.
Mistakes were made like many times before in F1. It's a shame it had to end in controversy, but my friends and I went crazy celebrating after that last lap. Something I will never forget.
Glad to see the statement by Mercedes. Must say, if there's any more hints of this nonsense by FIA I'm done with F1. There's a reason I stopped watching wrestling when I reached 8 years old.
I wouldn't waste your time.
If people want to celebrate blatant rule changing as if it is the same as any other mistake like that, let them. They'll soon be moaning again when it comes back around.
The potential problem is when these mistakes start to happen so often that it gets a WWE vibe to it, and then people stop taking it seriously.
This is not bad luck. Bad luck is if Lewis had a tyre puncture or engine blowout on the last lap and Max won. That is bad luck.
This is a thoughtful, contrived, conscious, human intervention to change something in the race.
I'm sure it was memorable.
I do think it was a mistake also. I don't think pre race he wondered how to help max win, and he could have easily done the same if Lewis was behind Max. It simply exposed how out of his depth he is.
What I don't want to see is red flags called most races for "unsafe conditions" to set up 5 lap sprints. That's where I think this is heading.
True, FIA definitely have to sort this shit out. My solution would be the cars running with a little excess fuel so they can add another lap or 2 under SC, when necessary.
I completely agree.
They can absolutely not do that, oh dear god. If they can add laps at will, they can also easily take laps away. No one wants to see Masi with that power.
Masi should walk.