[VanDeBank]

Why mention Brighton's team last season? What use is that to a loan this season?

Because this is what you took from my post:

So we should only loan players to the top teams in each league then??

I gave examples of teams placed 14-16 in their league that play good football. So there's a few weak teams that play good footy, and there's obviously midtable ones (again: other competitions than PL or La Liga), meaning there's many more teams he could go to than just "the top teams".

But I'll reiterate that it's clear that you've never watched Alaves. It's like Burnley at their worst, or Stoke in times past, without the English component.

And yes, I think it's good football is important for a player that needs to improve his finishing, for example. How many goals has he scored at Alaves? Key passes? He's a winger not a right back.

 

[Champ]

Because this is what you took from my post:



I gave examples of teams placed 14-16 in their league that play good football. So there's a few weak teams that play good footy, and there's obviously midtable ones (again: other competitions than PL or La Liga), meaning there's many more teams he could go to than just "the top teams".

But I'll reiterate that it's clear that you've never watched Alaves. It's like Burnley at their worst, or Stoke in times past, without the English component.

And yes, I think it's good football is important for a player that needs to improve his finishing, for example. How many goals has he scored at Alaves? Key passes? He's a winger not a right back.

You live in an idealistic and unrealistic world.

In a perfect world all of our loanees would play for teams who dominate possession, who play on the front foot and play attacking free flowing football.
Alas, life and football isn't like that.
Ethan Laird is a prime example, he will now have reduced game time at Bournemouth due to the amount of loan players they have on their squad, yet he's playing for a team playing free flowing attacking football. Nothing is perfect.

Him getting minutes on a pitch having to work hard off the ball is just as important as him being on the ball, if anything it's probably more important at his age.
It's just as good as an experience to be in a struggling team as a winning one.

You gave an example of Brightons team last season, which he would never have got into, so I'm not really sure the point of that inclusion really!

I see no issue with his loan currently, you obviously do, I guess it's best to leave it at that and see how he is when he gets back to United and whether he's improved as a player.

 

[Marwood]

So would I, but he isn't and what he is doing is good enough to get him into his national side so he is also getting experience there.

Why mention Brighton's team last season? What use is that to a loan this season?

The simple fact is he wouldn't be getting into a premiership teams starting 11 this season (or last for that matter), so he would have to drop down to the Championship for that, even then there's no guarantees that the team he would have gone to would play this attacking, beautiful football that you appear to desire.

There is more than one way to play football and if he is learning to work hard off the ball then good, as that will invigorate a good work ethic. I don't see any issue with a player getting a bit part at the highest level they can.

The issue is that's not the point of a loan.

He could have stayed here, took Mata's bench spot if that were the case.

A loan should be about getting maximum game time. Only so much you can learn by watching.

 

[Champ]

The issue is that's not the point of a loan.

He could have stayed here, took Mata's bench spot if that were the case.

A loan should be about getting maximum game time. Only so much you can learn by watching.

He's getting the maximum game time he should be getting at the level he is playing at, more than he would get here.

If he wants more then he should drop down a level or two.

 

[VanDeBank]

You live in an idealistic and unrealistic world.

In a perfect world all of our loanees would play for teams who dominate possession, who play on the front foot and play attacking free flowing football.
Alas, life and football isn't like that.
Ethan Laird is a prime example, he will now have reduced game time at Bournemouth due to the amount of loan players they have on their squad, yet he's playing for a team playing free flowing attacking football. Nothing is perfect.

Him getting minutes on a pitch having to work hard off the ball is just as important as him being on the ball, if anything it's probably more important at his age.
It's just as good as an experience to be in a struggling team as a winning one.

You gave an example of Brightons team last season, which he would never have got into, so I'm not really sure the point of that inclusion really!

I see no issue with his loan currently, you obviously do, I guess it's best to leave it at that and see how he is when he gets back to United and whether he's improved as a player.

Again, you rephrased your initial misrepresentation of my post, that I somehow want all our loanees to go to the best teams in the world, only instead of "top teams" it's "teams who dominate possession, who play on the front foot and play attacking free flowing football".

What do you need me to say for you to understand there's several of tiers of better football between the crap Alaves put on display and Man City?

He's been there over a year and hasn't scored a single goal or given a single assist. That's a damning stat. And I know some of the house geniuses on the Caf would conclude he's shit based on that, but unlike you, I've seen Alaves play a couple of times, and seen Pellistri so far removed from the opposition's goal that 90% of the time it's an impossibility to get on the score sheet, even for Ronaldo. Pellistri's a forward ffs. Defending and maturely seeing out games is only a part of the skillset he needs to develop (which he's barely doing either btw, because he barely plays).

They whole argument of "struggling to get into the team could improve him", may have made sense in the summer, but he hasn't actually gotten into the team.

 

[CallyRed]

Inside info from a scout who basically said. Don’t know why United have signed him, he’s okay but not United quality and will struggle in the Prem.

Just an opinion but look at what he’s doing now. Hard to argue with it.

Was it @LuckyScout78

 

[TwoSheds]

Inside info from a scout who basically said. Don’t know why United have signed him, he’s okay but not United quality and will struggle in the Prem.

Just an opinion but look at what he’s doing now. Hard to argue with it.

Alaves would get dicked by Norwich, they're fecking shit and play fecking shit football.

 

[Mainoldo]

Alaves would get dicked by Norwich, they're fecking shit and play fecking shit football.

Never watched them but I can imagine they are terrible! I mean even Andreas excelled over there.

 

[TwoSheds]

Never watched them but I can imagine they are terrible! I mean even Andreas excelled over there.

I don't think he did...he played for Granada. And I think he only got 3 goals or something.

 

[Marwood]

He's getting the maximum game time he should be getting at the level he is playing at, [/B]more than he would get here.

If he wants more then he should drop down a level or two.

Agree but that isn't a good thing because it means not much playing time.

We should be shaping loans to suit us not the player. Which means 90 mins at least once a week.

 

[Champ]

Again, you rephrased your initial misrepresentation of my post, that I somehow want all our loanees to go to the best teams in the world, only instead of "top teams" it's "teams who dominate possession, who play on the front foot and play attacking free flowing football".

What do you need me to say for you to understand there's several of tiers of better football between the crap Alaves put on display and Man City?

He's been there over a year and hasn't scored a single goal or given a single assist. That's a damning stat. And I know some of the house geniuses on the Caf would conclude he's shit based on that, but unlike you, I've seen Alaves play a couple of times, and seen Pellistri so far removed from the opposition's goal that 90% of the time it's an impossibility to get on the score sheet, even for Ronaldo. Pellistri's a forward ffs. Defending and maturely seeing out games is only a part of the skillset he needs to develop (which he's barely doing either btw, because he barely plays).

They whole argument of "struggling to get into the team could improve him", may have made sense in the summer, but he hasn't actually gotten into the team.

Again, he is learning a completely different game to one that he maybe is expected to play at United.

I don't see anything wrong with that, nor does the club evidently.

He has got into the team as he is playing minutes.

Just because he isn't scoring or assisting doesn't mean he isn't learning.
There's more to football than attacking.

 

[Gandalf]

Another 90 minutes sitting on the bench today. Clearly in training for the Donny role next season.

 

[VanDeBank]

Another 90 minutes sitting on the bench today. Clearly in training for the Donny role next season.

According to some on here, he's getting valuable La Liga experience

100% the reason he's there is because he wants to be in Spain, signed with us for the pay check and we're too lazy to get him a better loan since he seems to be content.

 

[Rossa]

According to some on here, he's getting valuable La Liga experience

100% the reason he's there is because he wants to be in Spain, signed with us for the pay check and we're too lazy to get him a better loan since he seems to be content.

100%? how do you reckon that? Not a microscopic chance even that he enjoys playing football, and that he genuinly thought he would get game time in a league that auits him and his culture to develop his professional game?

What’s 100% going on in Ukraine?

 

[Lash]

According to some on here, he's getting valuable La Liga experience

100% the reason he's there is because he wants to be in Spain, signed with us for the pay check and we're too lazy to get him a better loan since he seems to be content.

To be fair, I think we wanted to send him Belgium IIRC? He was insistent he wanted to go back to Alaves, where he probably thought he could break through. We can all make bad decisions. I doubt if we recalled him in Jan he'd get a loan anywhere else, so may as well just leave him there and reassess in the summer.

 

[VanDeBank]

100%? how do you reckon that? Not a microscopic chance even that he enjoys playing football, and that he genuinly thought he would get game time in a league that auits him and his culture to develop his professional game?

What’s 100% going on in Ukraine?

For a starte,r Alaves were interested in him before we signed him. Why would he sign with us then go on loan to Alaves? $$$ This is fairly normal. Amad, same deal.

Second of all, he went back after not making it into the team regularly after half a season. Then in in the next season, he played even less, yet we didn't recall him. He's clearly not developing. W're just being lazy.

To be fair, I think we wanted to send him Belgium IIRC? He was insistent he wanted to go back to Alaves, where he probably thought he could break through. We can all make bad decisions. I doubt if we recalled him in Jan he'd get a loan anywhere else, so may as well just leave him there and reassess in the summer.

Nonsense. He'd be great in Holland or Belgium.

It's not that he went back, it's the fact that he hasn't been recalled after another half of season of even less game time.

 

[Lash]

For a starte,r Alaves were interested in him before we signed him. Why would he sign with us then go on loan to Alaves? $$$ This is fairly normal. Amad, same deal.

Second of all, he went back after not making it into the team regularly after half a season. Then in in the next season, he played even less, yet we didn't recall him. He's clearly not developing. W're just being lazy.


Nonsense. He'd be great in Holland or Belgium.

It's not that he went back, it's the fact that he hasn't been recalled after another half of season of even less game time.

Do we even know if anyone was even interested in Jan? I think he'd be great there, but not sure if anyone even enquired. It's not like we're adverse to that, we did it with Laird and Levitt.

 

[Red00012]

But but but he got a great assist for his country

Let’s hope we make some money on him when we get rid

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

But but but he got a great assist for his country

Let’s hope we make some money on him when we get rid

Dumb take

 

[MrBest]

People acting like they followed this kid all this career by claiming he wont make it just because he cant start at Alavez. Some of the stuff written is just crazy. Im no expert in Pellistri but i was wondering whether we were able to recall him? May be beneficial to have a right winger on the bench in addition to Elanga for the left. Since Greenwood messed up, martial and donny went out on loan, our bench looks so unbalanced with hardly any attacking options. Id take Pellistri back at united especially if he is not starting. He can warm our bench instead.

 

[AshRK]

Whoever recommended him to go to Alaves need to be sacked. He featured for Uruguay and did well but cannot even get a single minute for a shit team like Alaves. Absolute waste of time for his growth.

 

[Gandalf]

Whoever recommended him to go to Alaves need to be sacked. He featured for Uruguay and did well but cannot even get a single minute for a shit team like Alaves. Absolute waste of time for his growth.

I don't think anyone recommended it. Alaves approached us about him for the second half of last season and it made some sense as La Liga would be a good halfway house between domestic football in Europe and the Premier League, kind of easing him into European football in an environment closer to what he would be used to. For this season, we were not keen for him to go back and it was the player himself who lobbied to be allowed to return there and so it was agreed conditional on him getting a certain amount of game time. The loan deal had a clause allowing us to recall him in January if he was not meeting the agreed number of minutes and of course he was nowhere near but for some baffling reason there was never a hint of us taking him back. I don't pretend to know what the clubs plans for him are but based on the seeming indifference to him wasting away on the Alaves bench it is hard not to conclude that we are ready to give up on him and I would not be at all surprised to see him moved on for a fairly nominal fee in the summer.

 

[PoTMS]

Should've been recalled in January and instead sent out to the Championship. He looks far too lightweight at the moment.

 

[UnitedSofa]

I don't think anyone recommended it. Alaves approached us about him for the second half of last season and it made some sense as La Liga would be a good halfway house between domestic football in Europe and the Premier League, kind of easing him into European football in an environment closer to what he would be used to. For this season, we were not keen for him to go back and it was the player himself who lobbied to be allowed to return there and so it was agreed conditional on him getting a certain amount of game time. The loan deal had a clause allowing us to recall him in January if he was not meeting the agreed number of minutes and of course he was nowhere near but for some baffling reason there was never a hint of us taking him back. I don't pretend to know what the clubs plans for him are but based on the seeming indifference to him wasting away on the Alaves bench it is hard not to conclude that we are ready to give up on him and I would not be at all surprised to see him moved on for a fairly nominal fee in the summer.

Incredible

 

[VanDeBank]

A whopping 8 minutes against Getafe.

Good to see he's getting the experience of not working his way into the team

 

[Gandalf]

Another 90 minutes of bench time banked today. One of the worst loan deals we have ever been involved with and frankly we should refuse to even entertain ever loaning anyone to Alaves ever again when they have repeatedly failed to keep to the terms of the loan agreement. We had the option to recall him in January and as the table below shows, he has completed 10 whole minutes of football in 10 games since then and 5 of those came almost 2 months ago. He would have been better off here playing in the under 23's than rotting over there so I have no clue which feckwit decided not to active the recall clause but I would be strongly in favour of firing whoever it was for gross incompetence.


LALIGA
Compact
Detailed

Matchday	Date	Venue	For	Opponent	Result	Pos.
1	8/14/21	H	(19.)	Real Madrid (1.)	1:4	RW						22'
2	8/21/21	H	(19.)	RCD Mallorca (9.)	0:1						6'
3	8/27/21	A	(19.)	Valencia (5.)	3:0	RW						68'
5	9/18/21	H	(20.)	CA Osasuna (12.)	0:2	RW						45'
6	9/22/21	A	(20.)	Espanyol (16.)	1:0	RW						18'
7	9/25/21	H	(20.)	Atlético Madrid (2.)	1:0	RW						29'
8	10/1/21	A	(19.)	Athletic (11.)	1:0	RW						8'
9	10/18/21	H	(19.)	Real Betis (11.)	0:1	RW						77'
10	10/23/21	A	(19.)	Cádiz CF (16.)	0:2	RW						56'
11	10/26/21	H	(18.)	Elche CF (14.)	1:0	RW						74'
12	10/30/21	A	(17.)	Barcelona (9.)	1:1	RW						28'
13	11/6/21	H	(16.)	Levante (19.)	2:1	RW						59'
14	11/20/21	A	(15.)	Sevilla FC (2.)	2:2	on the bench
15	11/27/21	H	(15.)	Celta de Vigo (16.)	1:2	RW						19'
16	12/3/21	A	(16.)	Granada CF (15.)	2:1	RW						19'
17	12/11/21	H	(17.)	Getafe (19.)	1:1	RW						45'
18	12/18/21	A	(16.)	Rayo Vallecano (6.)	2:0						14'
4	12/21/21	A	(20.)	Villarreal (11.)	5:2	on the bench
19	1/2/22	H	(16.)	Real Sociedad (5.)	1:1	Corona virus
20	1/9/22	H	(17.)	Athletic (10.)	0:0						5'
21	1/18/22	A	(18.)	Real Betis (3.)	4:0	on the bench
22	1/23/22	H	(18.)	Barcelona (6.)	0:1	on the bench
23	2/5/22	A	(19.)	Elche CF (15.)	3:1	Ankle Injury
24	2/13/22	H	(19.)	Valencia (10.)	2:1	on the bench
25	2/19/22	A	(18.)	Real Madrid (1.)	3:0	on the bench
26	2/26/22	A	(18.)	Getafe (15.)	2:2	RW						5'
27	3/4/22	H	(18.)	Sevilla FC (2.)	0:0	on the bench
28	3/13/22	A	Real Sociedad	1:0	on the bench

 

[pratyush_utd]

Its a waste of loan move. Very frustrating because recent international match showed us that he is clearly good enough to play at this level

 

[roseguy64]

Seriously wondering why he wasn't recalled in January and sent to a different club or even stayed here once the Greenwood thing happened.

 

[NicolaSacco]

Another 90 minutes of bench time banked today. One of the worst loan deals we have ever been involved with and frankly we should refuse to even entertain ever loaning anyone to Alaves ever again when they have repeatedly failed to keep to the terms of the loan agreement. We had the option to recall him in January and as the table below shows, he has completed 10 whole minutes of football in 10 games since then and 5 of those came almost 2 months ago. He would have been better off here playing in the under 23's than rotting over there so I have no clue which feckwit decided not to active the recall clause but I would be strongly in favour of firing whoever it was for gross incompetence.


LALIGA
Compact
Detailed

Matchday	Date	Venue	For	Opponent	Result	Pos.
1	8/14/21	H	(19.)	Real Madrid (1.)	1:4	RW						22'
2	8/21/21	H	(19.)	RCD Mallorca (9.)	0:1						6'
3	8/27/21	A	(19.)	Valencia (5.)	3:0	RW						68'
5	9/18/21	H	(20.)	CA Osasuna (12.)	0:2	RW						45'
6	9/22/21	A	(20.)	Espanyol (16.)	1:0	RW						18'
7	9/25/21	H	(20.)	Atlético Madrid (2.)	1:0	RW						29'
8	10/1/21	A	(19.)	Athletic (11.)	1:0	RW						8'
9	10/18/21	H	(19.)	Real Betis (11.)	0:1	RW						77'
10	10/23/21	A	(19.)	Cádiz CF (16.)	0:2	RW						56'
11	10/26/21	H	(18.)	Elche CF (14.)	1:0	RW						74'
12	10/30/21	A	(17.)	Barcelona (9.)	1:1	RW						28'
13	11/6/21	H	(16.)	Levante (19.)	2:1	RW						59'
14	11/20/21	A	(15.)	Sevilla FC (2.)	2:2	on the bench
15	11/27/21	H	(15.)	Celta de Vigo (16.)	1:2	RW						19'
16	12/3/21	A	(16.)	Granada CF (15.)	2:1	RW						19'
17	12/11/21	H	(17.)	Getafe (19.)	1:1	RW						45'
18	12/18/21	A	(16.)	Rayo Vallecano (6.)	2:0						14'
4	12/21/21	A	(20.)	Villarreal (11.)	5:2	on the bench
19	1/2/22	H	(16.)	Real Sociedad (5.)	1:1	Corona virus
20	1/9/22	H	(17.)	Athletic (10.)	0:0						5'
21	1/18/22	A	(18.)	Real Betis (3.)	4:0	on the bench
22	1/23/22	H	(18.)	Barcelona (6.)	0:1	on the bench
23	2/5/22	A	(19.)	Elche CF (15.)	3:1	Ankle Injury
24	2/13/22	H	(19.)	Valencia (10.)	2:1	on the bench
25	2/19/22	A	(18.)	Real Madrid (1.)	3:0	on the bench
26	2/26/22	A	(18.)	Getafe (15.)	2:2	RW						5'
27	3/4/22	H	(18.)	Sevilla FC (2.)	0:0	on the bench
28	3/13/22	A	Real Sociedad	1:0	on the bench

How on earth do you know the terms of the loan agreement?

 

[Leftback99]

Him and Diallo should be on loans in league 1. Really they shouldn't be here at all. Odd signings.

 

[PoTMS]

Seriously wondering why he wasn't recalled in January and sent to a different club or even stayed here once the Greenwood thing happened.

Same reason we haven't won anything of note in the last 10 years. The club is a shambles top to bottom.

 

[Abraxas]

Awful stuff. Bad for us, that's for sure. But absolutely terrible for the player who has left his home country where he was getting regular football in order to develop to warm benches and carry drinks. Even staying here to learn from better players would have been preferable to training alongside the superstars at Alaves.

Can't really blame Alaves in truth, they have to do right by their own club and if he's not at the level required or the competition is better then it is worrying for his future here. But it's simply bad that he's getting no football anywhere. Hopefully he's let go in the summer.

 

[roseguy64]

Awful stuff. Bad for us, that's for sure. But absolutely terrible for the player who has left his home country where he was getting regular football in order to develop to warm benches and carry drinks. Even staying here to learn from better players would have been preferable to training alongside the superstars at Alaves.

Can't really blame Alaves in truth, they have to do right by their own club and if he's not at the level required or the competition is better then it is worrying for his future here. But it's simply bad that he's getting no football anywhere. Hopefully he's let go in the summer.

He will not be let go in the summer. He's way too young for the club to give up on that early. Also his value isn't high enough yet for it to be worth selling.

 

[ti vu]

Awful stuff. Bad for us, that's for sure. But absolutely terrible for the player who has left his home country where he was getting regular football in order to develop to warm benches and carry drinks. Even staying here to learn from better players would have been preferable to training alongside the superstars at Alaves.

Can't really blame Alaves in truth, they have to do right by their own club and if he's not at the level required or the competition is better then it is worrying for his future here. But it's simply bad that he's getting no football anywhere. Hopefully he's let go in the summer.

I disagree here.

Had he stayed, he would be playing reserve football mostly. Even the time to train with the first team would be limited. During the season, if a young player is not in plan to even make the bench, he's less involved in tactical training, let alone those 11 vs 11 training.

He has had more first team minute with Alaves than anything we can potentially give him. Alaves is relegation zone and fighting to survive, so they have to make tough decision. We would prefer him to get more game time, but the experience of real life expectation as a first team player is still beneficial for him from this loan. Better than being stuck in the youth team, and no game time with our first team.

The issue with us is more about recruitment vision. Doesn't look like we have plan when we sign these young players. No pathway to first team.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

We are shit even at loans

 

[Gandalf]

How on earth do you know the terms of the loan agreement?

It was stated at the start of the loan and again when the January window came around that the terms of the loan included a guarantee of playing time which has not been even close to being met. The interview with the player that I linked a while back references this also. Whichever way you look at it Alaves have not been good partners in this arrangement and it should be noted for consideration should they ask about any of our players in the future. I still feel that whoever signed off on the loan at our end bears the most of the blame of this cock up though.

 

[Ali Dia]

Any football, even off minutes off the bench is better than being here doing nothing at all. The thing is - is this the best loan we could have got him? If he’d a chance to play all the games at a lower level then surely that should have been the way to go. Let him build up his body of work and confidence.

 

[VanDeBank]

Had he stayed, he would be playing reserve football mostly. Even the time to train with the first team would be limited.

The sad truth is he'd offer more than Lingard and Rashford off the right. Amad likewise. So would Shoretire actually.

 

[VP89]

The sad truth is he'd offer more than Lingard and Rashford off the right. Amad likewise. So would Shoretire actually.

The sad truth is what you said is extremely presumptious at best.

 

[NicolaSacco]

It was stated at the start of the loan and again when the January window came around that the terms of the loan included a guarantee of playing time which has not been even close to being met. The interview with the player that I linked a while back references this also. Whichever way you look at it Alaves have not been good partners in this arrangement and it should be noted for consideration should they ask about any of our players in the future. I still feel that whoever signed off on the loan at our end bears the most of the blame of this cock up though.

Id love to see where it was actually stated- I seriously doubt it.