Fitting in Macheda

[Cling Bak]

We've barely seen Macheda play in the last two years. He had two awful loan spells where in both cases the manager who brought him in was sacked shortly after. That didn't help him at all. If he didn't have this certain arrogance about him and self confidence it would most likely break him.

He's looked better than Javier this tournament but my point was that people are basing too much on these three friendlies where we've had mostly reserves playing. We had 1 center back and one winger yesterday.

He should stay with the club and get some sub and cup appearances and hopefully late CL group stage games.

Reading, Southampton, Norwich (assuming Holt doesn't stay), Swansea, Wigan, West Ham (they've recently added one, I know nothing about him), Fulham and Everton. Look at their striker force.

Why are you comparing these teams - many of which have been promoted from the second tier in the last year! - to Manchester United?!

Holt's signed a contract extension, by the way.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Rossi isn't in the same class as Tevez

I disagree

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Bit harsh, Rossi seems like a decent enough bloke to me.

 

[Snow]

Why are you comparing these teams - many of which have been promoted from the second tier in the last year! - to Manchester United?!

Holt's signed a contract extension, by the way.

I'm not comparing teams. I'm saying that our 5th striker is better than what most other teams have coming off the bench.

Let's compare it to Real Madrid then. They have two strikers. That's it. Or Barcelona. They have one. Don't see the problem with him gaining experience and trying to grow as our 5th striker. He doesn't take up 1 of the 25 spots that we can register and he'll count as a home grown talent in the CL.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Truth be told we gave him awful loan deals. To struggling teams that were never going to try out an in experienced forward to get them out of a hole. We should have got him deals similar to what we got for Welbeck. Stable midtable clubs looking for extra personnel to boost them.

 

[SilentWitness]

20 years old, obviously going to be a late bloomer if he manages to become a good PL striker, best thing would be to go to a club where he is guaranteed to be starting. No point in faffing about getting the odd game off the bench or he will never make it. Players that you have already like Jones/Smalling/Rafael are already good enough so they can afford to sit on the bench and just need some 'fine tuning'. Macheda looks like he still has a long way to go.

 

[kelvinkato77]

It's only pre-season and the same tunes are being hummed. Has a good game, get's a few praises, a few overhype the player but not many.
Has an average game. All the nutter come out making career defining claims and thin they're teaching Sir Alex Ferguson a thing or two via the interbox.

Calm down people. He's a young player. He's currently our 5th striker in the team and we've added Kagawa who essentially takes up a place of a striker as well. Having Macheda as 4th is not a bad thing if Berba were to leave. That's still better than the 3rd best striker at almost every team and better than the 2nd one at some teams. Let the boy develop
Dwight Yorke didn't start scoring until he was 24 despite playing a lot. Ole only joined us when he was 23. I bet 99,9% of you had never seen him kick a ball before that so you can't really say how good he was at age 20.

No, I hadn't seen Ole kick a ball prior to joining us, though that has no bearing on what I see with Macheda because I've seen him kick a ball plenty of times.

Though I do agree with the vast majority of your post and the examples that you've given - it doesn't change the things that Macheda lacks for me (Pace, touch and passing). Passing will certainly develop as well along with his hold up play. His movement may improve but pace (and more importantly 'quickness') are things that you can work on but cannot dramatically improve. These two 'attributes' directly effect his ability to open up space for himself and others.

Before you (not you directly Snow, but anyone) give me examples of strikers lacking pace who were so intelligent that they were able to find space regardless, etc - you would be most likely giving me examples of far more experienced players who played long periods of time which allowed them to make up for in it in different ways when they reached a point in their career where they lost a yard or two.

I may be overstating what I consider his lack of touch. For me it's more to do with his overall seemingly lack of mobility. In watching him play, his movement with the ball seems rather 'lumbering' which seems to slow his touches down, in general.

And I realize how young he is, however we've all seen a lot of him in comparison to other young players so it's a bit easier to make judgments on our own than say, Ole prior to coming here. It's all opinion and that's why this message board exists, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Snow]

Comparing to other players the same age isn't a defacto sign of the times though. Kluivert was a world beater whilst his compatriot who was exactly the same age as him to the day was unknown. Kluivert collapsed for some reason and Ruud became one of the best strikers ever in the CL.
Ruud started scoring at age 22 and didn't really stop after that. He didn't have much speed. Macheda isn't in his class of reading the game though. Ruud reinvented how to beat the offside trap. He was a very clever player. With Mached we'll have to see how good he becomes but as for now he's not a poor 5th choice striker.

 

[gooDevil]

Truth be told we gave him awful loan deals. To struggling teams that were never going to try out an in experienced forward to get them out of a hole. We should have got him deals similar to what we got for Welbeck. Stable midtable clubs looking for extra personnel to boost them.

That's not completely accurate, let's not forget that in both loans the manager who agreed to take Macheda on was fired within a month of him arriving.

I don't doubt Sampdoria and QPR told us the manager would be staying when we started such discussions, and had plans to use Macheda. If not then the mistake was our in sending Macheda into a situation where the manager's position was extremely uncertain.

I'm a bit surprised we sent Fabio to QPR after that disastrous loan for Macheda, I can't help but think that Hughes being there is the reason we're giving them another chance more than anything else.

 

[gooDevil]

20 years old, obviously going to be a late bloomer if he manages to become a good PL striker, best thing would be to go to a club where he is guaranteed to be starting. No point in faffing about getting the odd game off the bench or he will never make it. Players that you have already like Jones/Smalling/Rafael are already good enough so they can afford to sit on the bench and just need some 'fine tuning'. Macheda looks like he still has a long way to go.

Fair enough, 20 is very young for a player of any position and many fine strikers had a less productive start than him.

He has stopped complaining when the ball doesn't come to him, that's a good start.

 

[SilentWitness]

Fair enough, 20 is very young for a player of any position and many fine strikers had a less productive start than him.

I agree but when they were playing they had that spark about them. Like that Nelson Oliviera at Benfica/Portugal. Not scored a lot but you can see when he plays why people rate him highly. With Macheda he's not at that level in enough parts of his game so far for me. If he was further ahead in his development i'd take him here as back up to Jelavic but what he needs is a 30+ game season.

 

[Amir]

That's not completely accurate, let's not forget that in both loans the manager who agreed to take Macheda on was fired within a month of him arriving.

I'm a bit surprised we sent Fabio to QPR after that disastrous loan for Macheda, I can't help but think that Hughes being there is the reason we're giving them another chance more than anything else.

You seem to be contradicting yourself. QPR wasn't the problem, the timing was. So why not send them a player on loan? Should be avoid loans to Newcastle because Rossi had a bad one a few years back?

If the club seems to have a need for that player and the manager gives some assurances, that's all you can ask for.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

That's not completely accurate, let's not forget that in both loans the manager who agreed to take Macheda on was fired within a month of him arriving.

Because their sides were struggling. my point still stands.

I don't doubt Sampdoria and QPR told us the manager would be staying when we started such discussions, and had plans to use Macheda. If not then the mistake was our in sending Macheda into a situation where the manager's position was extremely uncertain.

The manager staying was never the issue. The issue was we sent him to sturggling sides. It was not wise to do that for a young a striker who isn't a Rooney.

I'm a bit surprised we sent Fabio to QPR after that disastrous loan for Macheda, I can't help but think that Hughes being there is the reason we're giving them another chance more than anything else.

As a defender/winger Fabio is likely to play plenty even if they struggle in the relegation zone.

 

[Amir]

As a winger Fabio may play (which will only be partly of use to us as we see him as a defender), but as a defender, if QPR struggle, they may see his inexperience and attacking instincts as too risky.

As for loaning players out to struggling sides, I know people keep on talking about dream loans to Everton, but clubs likely to take youngsters on loan are not going to be mid table. A young player needs games and if a side is willing to take him, you do it. Richardson went to a struggling side in West Brom and was a key player their successful battle for survival.

 

[gooDevil]

You seem to be contradicting yourself. QPR wasn't the problem, the timing was. So why not send them a player on loan? Should be avoid loans to Newcastle because Rossi had a bad one a few years back?

If the club seems to have a need for that player and the manager gives some assurances, that's all you can ask for.

I'd certainly be wary of loaning Newcastle another player. But like I said, it would depend on the details. I doubt either QPR or Sampdoria told us there was a good chance that they'd have a different manager as soon as Macheda arrived, but if they did then I can't help but think we should have picked a more stable environment.

I would think that certain conversations take place that outline what's expected, especially when you're loaning an exciting young prospects. Perhaps it was a failure of disclosure about the instability of their manager's position and a gamble on our part that they would need Macheda.

Of course for all we know Macheda trained really poorly for both clubs and no coach would have or should have started him. I do believe that SAF has expressed dissatisfaction with Newcastle over Rossi, he certainly expressed disappointment over the Sampdoria loan.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

As a winger Fabio may play (which will only be partly of use to us as we see him as a defender), but as a defender, if QPR struggle, they may see his inexperience and attacking instincts as too risky.

I doubt it. Because by the time they start struggling, if he has been playing regular by then he will probably be one of their brighter lights.

As for loaning players out to struggling sides, I know people keep on talking about dream loans to Everton, but clubs likely to take youngsters on loan are not going to be mid table.

Sunderland was mid table when they took Welbeck. Everton is usually more of a top 6 competing side so I would never expect them to loan our young players unless that player was truly exceptional.

A young player needs games and if a side is willing to take him, you do it. Richardson went to a struggling side in West Brom and was a key player their successful battle for survival.

I'm convinced if Richardson was a striker he would never have got any games. Furthermore, It also helped us and him immensely that Robson was fresh in the job and had the heart for United too. Where we sent Macheda in comparison was not as rosy prospect wise. It's no surprise the loans turned out as bad as Rossi to Newcastle. Personally I'd rather we sent him to the championship than to a struggling EPL side if we ever loan him out again.

 

[Amar__]

I said it already, if hernandez doesn't raise his form from last year and preaseason, I could easily see Macheda taking his place. Macheda's allround game is better than Hernandez's, and if he can bang few goals from bench, than I wouldn't be surprised seeing him often on the bench, and hernandez left out.

Mind you, I would like to see old Hernandez from his first season with us, he can be great option on the bench, and sometimes as a starter too, especially in away games.

 

[gza the genius]

I said it already, if hernandez doesn't raise his form from last year and preaseason, I could easily see Macheda taking his place. Macheda's allround game is better than Hernandez's, and if he can bang few goals from bench, than I wouldn't be surprised seeing him often on the bench, and hernandez left out.

Mind you, I would like to see old Hernandez from his first season with us, he can be great option on the bench, and sometimes as a starter too, especially in away games.

That certainly is a very interesting opinion.

 

[Adam-Utd]

I do think Macheda needs a loan like welbeck did at this age, if he can go to sunderland and do the same thing welbeck did, it could really re ignite his career again.

All strikers thrive in confidence, and macheda seems pretty much the same. I think he likes to feel the main man and going to a lower league club will suit him.

We should never be thinking of selling him at 20 years of age, we should keep him atleast till 24. Its so early in his career you never know what could happen.

 

[ronnie dazzler]

I doubt it. Because by the time they start struggling, if he has been playing regular by then he will probably be one of their brighter lights.

Sunderland was mid table when they took Welbeck. Everton is usually more of a top 6 competing side so I would never expect them to loan our young players unless that player was truly exceptional.

I'm convinced if Richardson was a striker he would never have got any games. Furthermore, It also helped us and him immensely that Robson was fresh in the job and had the heart for United too. Where we sent Macheda in comparison was not as rosy prospect wise. It's no surprise the loans turned out as bad as Rossi to Newcastle. Personally I'd rather we sent him to the championship than to a struggling EPL side if we ever loan him out again.[/QUOTE]

See I think that's the problem. Its not only the clubs choice. Macheda seems to feel, from comments I've read, that he's above that level. So, he's only keen on PL/Serie A etc.

The club can't make a player do something he doesn't want to do. Maybe that though is the flaw in his personality that stops him becoming a top player!!

 

[Orton]

That certainly is a very interesting opinion.

Not really, Hernandez all round game is pretty terrible.

 

[Mannheim Red]

Not really, Hernandez all round game is pretty terrible.

Absolutely spot on. He knows where the onion bag is but other than that he couldnt kick snow off a rope.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

[..

See I think that's the problem. Its not only the clubs choice. Macheda seems to feel, from comments I've read, that he's above that level. So, he's only keen on PL/Serie A etc.

The club can't make a player do something he doesn't want to do. Maybe that though is the flaw in his personality that stops him becoming a top player!!

Then United can loan him to a mid table side like we did with Welbeck. I see no problem with him feeling above championship level. .

 

[gooDevil]

After watching the Shenhua game again I'm convinced there are plenty of good things about Macheda that makes him worth keeping. It's easy to forget he's so young because of his introduction at such a young age.

It will certainly be interesting to see where he ends up.

It would help greatly if Macheda had another position he could play, Welbeck got a lot of games on the left for Sunderland and managed to score a few even though he wasn't spending a lot of time in front of goal. I don't doubt this helped Bruce choose him to play up front when Bent, I believe, went down.

Would Macheda get those games on the left and could he score from there for a team like Sunderland? I don't see it, and I wouldn't expect him to have the sort of success overall that Welbeck had at Sunderland, his link up play and contribution to the overall game isn't nearly as good as Welbeck's.

I do get the impression, as someone mentioned above, that he wouldn't like a championship side, though I think that's where he'd get the kind of constant game time he needs. My impression is that none of the current EPL teams would want to rest their survival on Macheda by giving him a similar amount of time.

But then it only takes 1 team to agree, if Kenny Miller can start 30 games for Derby in the EPL then Macheda can make 30 starts for an EPL team.

 

[Claymore]

I don't think Macheda will make it and haven't for some time but those who say he hasn't improved since the Villa goal or in the last couple of years etc, well its no surprise is it he has not had any game time really. He doesn't get a look in with us other than Carling cups etc or the reserves and his loan spells to Italy and QPR were as useless as Rossi's under Roeder at Newcastle.

At his age he should be playing more games and with Rooney, Berba, Welbeck, Hernandez + us in for RVP its unlikely he'll get any more than he does. I'd like to see him sold to a lesser PL team who can give him a full season of starts, just to see how he turns out if anything.

 

[RedMist99]

Absolutely spot on. He knows where the onion bag is but other than that he couldnt kick snow off a rope.

Granted he isn't as good technically as our other strikers but thats unfair

 

[mlclauhk]

Most of us forget he's only 20 odd years old. So long as he's not making demands about starting, then we shouldn't have an issue with keeping him around and seeing how he develops and if, he does indeed reach the potential which Fergie thinks he has.

 

[mariachi-19]

Not really, Hernandez all round game is pretty terrible.

Well yeah it because Hernandez all round game is miles ahead of Macheda's.

 

[Name Changed]

To be brutally honest, I don't think he will ever fit in. I don't think he is good enough. He looked better as a raw 17 year old when he broke through originally than he does now. He hasn't progressed much in 2 and a half years.

 

[Amar__]

I don't see any speculations about Kiko, what are we going to do with him?

He is our fifth or sixth choice, so I don't see him having good season.

Loan is obvious solution, but I can't see any premiership club that would be ideal for him in terms of giving him required game time.
We wouldn't get anything from selling him, so I would like him to go on loan to championship, or to some German club, I wouldn't send him to Italy anymore.

 

[Rowem]

We should lower our expectations in terms of what club we expect to take him and play him regularly. If it needs to be a team in the Championship then so be it. I don't think a PL club is going to pin their hopes on someone so unproven.

Macheda turns 21 tomorrow. There is still time - but you got to wonder why Macheda didn't follow a similar path to Cleverley, who was loaned to a L1 side at 19, a Championship side at 20 and a PL side at 21. In contrast Macheda has had unsuccessful loans in the PL and Serie A. Was he not ready for that level?

 

[Antisocial]

Send him on loan to Hull, maybe with an option for them to buy since I can't really see how he fits in with our way of playing going forward in the future.

 

[ricky-romeo]

he needs to go to a championship club this season as i cannot think of a premiership club who will put him into their first eleven. he has lost 2 years of his development because of a serious injury, and then the loans to italy and QPR last season.

 

[ste_michaels]

If I was sir Alex, I'd fit him into another club!!

 

[Lynk]

He has no real standout qualities


Can't dribble, no pace, hit and miss finisher.

 

[Dargonk]

A loan move to a championship club would be the best thing for him at the moment. I can't see any premiership club wanting him and if they do take him he will just be sitting on the bench again which won't help his development.

 

[davisjw]

Norwich could do with another bigger striker if Holt gets injured. Otherwise no other PL club really stands out.

 

[Carl]

What he's really needed for about 2 years now is football. Just send him to a Championship club (Bolton?) and let him get some games under his belt.

Having said that, the signing of Henrique to add to Rooney, RVN, Welbeck and Hernandez makes you think that any move is likely to be permanent.

 

[Carl]

Norwich could do with another bigger striker if Holt gets injured. Otherwise no other PL club really stands out.

They have Morrison and are likely to go down this season.

 

[Decotron]

Happy 21st Kiko!