Good vid.
Looks like a good fit for the team. Hopefully he can still more around as he firms up his positioning and tracking of runners. Could be big in shifting the ball around better among a lot of other things. Excited to see him this season.
Fred | Manchester United Player | For Reals
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Looks like a good fit for the team. Hopefully he can still more around as he firms up his positioning and tracking of runners. Could be big in shifting the ball around better among a lot of other things. Excited to see him this season.
From the clips I've seen he looks like he could develop into our version of Modric. Quick burst of pace, good forward passing and high energy. We just need to see if he can learn to dictate a game which is probably the hardest thing to learn.
Dictating a game is not easy, it would take him a while to get a better understanding of his teammates and movement.
It is going to be really interesting to see how Fred does this year. He has potential for sure.
But people need to lower their expectations, for Freds own sake if nothing else. I have written some scouting reports on Fred earlier this year since I actually see him play quite regularly here in the Ukraine. He is not going to come in and boss Uniteds midfield, sorry but thats just naive. If he over the season starts to compete with Herrera and Fellaini for real I would deem it a success.
Fred is arriving from a league that nowadays is on the level of the minnow leagues in Europe. The Ukrainian league is not even on the level of a league like for example the Dutch Eredivisie. He and Shaktar plays 6 "real"games per year: all against Dynamo Kyiv who is not what they once were. Not even close. The conflict here has drained the Ukrainian football of all money except for Shaktars oligarch-sponsored team.
The premier league here even changed the system so that we would have 4 games in the league between Shaktar and Dynamo per season instead of two. Add to that the cupfinal and supercup we get 6 "real" games per year domestically.
Add to that that the Dynamo of today are a shadow of what "we" once were; its practically the Ukrainian U21-team. Had to get rid of all the "expensive" imports if they even were that. Funny enough Dynamo edges Shaktar in their head-to-heads this season. What that says about Shaktars quality I dont know but that game will always be a war whichever players wear respective shirt so I guess maybe not so much....
Add to those six games Shaktars ventures into Europe you have the games from which its possible to judge Fred on. He has performed good in Europe without standing out. But playing in Europe is something different than playing in the Premier League. He isnt used to play more than 10-15 "real" games per season and the tempo and grind of the PL will be a challenge and hopefully not a shock.
And he doesnt speak English at all btw. He is a hard worker though and seems to have is head screwed on straight compared to other Brazilians that play and have played for Shaktar over the years.
Its a real step up for him and I just hope that everyone gives him a season at least to adapt. I think Mourinho will and that he will be used sparingly to begin with as should he be. I get a bit worried when I read some of the posts here though.
But people need to lower their expectations, for Freds own sake if nothing else. I have written some scouting reports on Fred earlier this year since I actually see him play quite regularly here in the Ukraine. He is not going to come in and boss Uniteds midfield, sorry but thats just naive. If he over the season starts to compete with Herrera and Fellaini for real I would deem it a success.
Fred is arriving from a league that nowadays is on the level of the minnow leagues in Europe. The Ukrainian league is not even on the level of a league like for example the Dutch Eredivisie. He and Shaktar plays 6 "real"games per year: all against Dynamo Kyiv who is not what they once were. Not even close. The conflict here has drained the Ukrainian football of all money except for Shaktars oligarch-sponsored team.
The premier league here even changed the system so that we would have 4 games in the league between Shaktar and Dynamo per season instead of two. Add to that the cupfinal and supercup we get 6 "real" games per year domestically.
Add to that that the Dynamo of today are a shadow of what "we" once were; its practically the Ukrainian U21-team. Had to get rid of all the "expensive" imports if they even were that. Funny enough Dynamo edges Shaktar in their head-to-heads this season. What that says about Shaktars quality I dont know but that game will always be a war whichever players wear respective shirt so I guess maybe not so much....
Add to those six games Shaktars ventures into Europe you have the games from which its possible to judge Fred on. He has performed good in Europe without standing out. But playing in Europe is something different than playing in the Premier League. He isnt used to play more than 10-15 "real" games per season and the tempo and grind of the PL will be a challenge and hopefully not a shock.
And he doesnt speak English at all btw. He is a hard worker though and seems to have is head screwed on straight compared to other Brazilians that play and have played for Shaktar over the years.
Its a real step up for him and I just hope that everyone gives him a season at least to adapt. I think Mourinho will and that he will be used sparingly to begin with as should he be. I get a bit worried when I read some of the posts here though.
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Fecking Fernandinho wasn’t it?
Casemiro
I know who I’m going by.
Fred is being written off already, all to fulfil the need for endless pessimism on this forum. Lovely.
It's strange - when City were after him no one was doubting his abilities.
That really fecks me off...spend loads of money on a player, only to then drip feed him into the team...
Why can't we just sign someone who is ready and able to just play from the start instead of this shit...Lindelof is the same, paid upwards of £30m for him, but he's "not ready"...don't fecking buy him then ffs...
Good write-up.
My expectations have been reduced (in a realistic way), but it does make me think that the MUFC top brass are aiming for top 4. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Basically, we bought Fred (who is currently, a level below Herrera/Fellaini). We bought a 35 yr old GK, who will never see a first team game. And then we have a 19 yr old who has hardly ever played first team football and probably won't get more than a few minutes of first team action.
Is Jose trying to get himself fired?
Same thing happened with Miki.
Nobody is writing him off.
What we are doing is resetting our expectations.
He is not on the level of Modric or a World Class midfielder.
He has been playing in an extremely poor league, so it may take him time to adjust.
In a year or 2, he may be the best midfielder in the World, but right now, he is nowhere near that and will most likely be a bench player, initially.
But the thing is, he moves to somewhere like Spurs and he develops there and suddenly he's a £100 mil player. We're going for players who are on the cusp of fulfilling their potential (though its still never guaranteed) and we either take a punt or someone else will.
Not writing him off, but I still think we should have signed Thiago (who probably wouldn't have cost much more) instead of him. I think it's unlikely he settles straight away, especially if this injury issue persists over preseason.
Yeah, he was "just what we needed", then we sign him and Jorginho is all of a sudden great (which he may be but still).
Is this a windup?
How many times have you watched him out of interest?
Whether you agree with his assessment of Fred or not (and I can hardly see how anyone is particularly well placed to say that Fred is either a good or a bad signing given the league he came from at the minute) surely sunama's general point that there's not a huge amount to get excited about with our transfer activity so far, given how many points we finished behind City, can't really be doubted?
Surely you have to wait until the end of the window to be throwing around such statements though?
This is what we need to do more of but of course with the proper due diligence and a system of play always in mind. We are Manchester United and we can afford to take expensive “punts” on players who look poised to break through to a very high level. More of these types of signings please. Players who will hopefully with some luck and the correct managment spend their best and happiest years here with us so we can have a team spirit again eventually and not everyone just blaming each other after a crappy performance.
I’m sick of all these mercenary names being thrown about just because we are one of 3 or 4 clubs rich and stupid enough to keep paying their huge wages and we might not even be their preferred choice after all that. We need to be a lot smarter and I think this signing is possibly another step in the right direction, it’s actually a city type signing. Right age and profile. Trust that the manager actually does know what he needs to improve us, hes worked with plenty of world class squads at this stage and surely he knows where we are lacking. Take Perisic for example- looks a strong player with a killer cross who can go inside or outside, scores goals and causes the opposition lots of problems any time I’ve seen him. He would have done well here but the summer of crying over him and matic and lukaku coming and no whatshisname who went to Chelsea just shows your average fan knows very little about players or their potential or place in our squad and just want big name transfers for the sake of it. The only thing is I’m not sure about anymore is how much financial backing Jose is getting from the board (and I’m
not sure if the majority of the squad is responding to Jose anymore either) and if the past few years post Fergie has shown anything it is that this board is still very much learning on the job and is prone to pretty big mistakes. Is there enough money there to chase after city and the CL this season or are we still realistically just too far away and taking a more considered approach in a crazy market? To be fair city have been getting their house in order for the last few years while we let 2 managers pull ours apart.
Yes they are. There's talk here how he's not good enough because he didn't get any minutes at the World cup. And the only ones resetting their expectations had no clue about him whatsoever. The fact that you are even mentioning Modric or world class midfielder is confirmation of this. Mourinho said the problem was midfield and persisted with a 3 man midfield in the last 2 months. He has gone on to buy Fred who will play in midfield for us as a starter.
Fred is a functional player, covers a lot of grass, makes a lot of tackles and line breaking passes/dribbles. Of course this is from the 10 or so games I've seen in the past year so I could be completely off. He will play as a partner to Matic due to Pogba not being able to fulfill that tactical role.
I am quite confident that our midfield will be Matic-Fred-Pogba. Pogba will play further up the pitch against weaker opposition as a link to the forwards, and as part of the midfield unit against stronger opposition where we will play counter attacking.
The lack of league footy and the need to discuss something has led to increasing pessimism about Fred.
I see no reason why he can’t be an asset from the beginning of his career here, and I am hoping/expecting him to do so.
I see no reason why he can’t be an asset from the beginning of his career here, and I am hoping/expecting him to do so.
Well hence my use of 'so far', but it's not like we have a huge amount of time to address it.
This sounds more likely what will happen. He'll be a starter and perhaps his first season will be a lot of him getting used to the league, the pace etc; but I think he'll play a strong role and will give Matic more help and give Pogba more help/freedom. Perhaps he'll become more of an absolutely key player in his 2nd season and bigger presence but I think he's been brought in to be an important cog in the engine this first season and I expect him to settle in fairly nicely and help us out. We also have Herrera who can cover too so I don't get the doom and gloom in this part of the field.
Fred got picked over Fabinho for example and this place was creaming over Fabinho.
I think it's very clear that this is the 'Essien' type player. And I can understand clearly why Herrera has not cemented himself under Mourinho after re-watching Essien's best games. And also why Pogba has not cemented himself in that role. And also why Fred can fill that role. Of course, I am in no way saying Fred will be as good as Essien, but that's not a problem because Pogba can make up in the technical department very easily.
There is a simplicity required for that role, because it is always about taking advantage of the transition. You have to be quick to pass and quick to dribble. Pogba obviously isn't that type of player, he uses the ball to commit players and beat them through skill and physicality. Herrera is that type of player however, he does not have the correct skill set when passing or dribbling to do it. He mainly has one pass in his locker (the hard pass into space) and his dribbling doesn't cover a lot of distance.
Fred is a very simple player, and his dribbling is very good. I know it's a bit cliche to compare players, but he brings a lot of the same qualities as Kante. He doesn't do anything amazing, but does the basics really well. Covering spaces, pressing the ball, tackling from the blind spot, dribbling into space, releasing the ball. He's a percentage player, he's not going to do something amazing (except on free kicks because he's good at those) but he'll make the right decision most of the time. He's an anti-flair player.
They are a more cohesive team and play possession based total football with good movement up front and 2 very good playmakers who create and circulate very well. What we saw last season from our team is not very fluid and creative when opposition gives the ball away to us and sit deep, so the way an individual pass the ball from the deep makes huge difference in two separate systems in terms of transition and creativity. He'd be judged on two completely different parameters in both the teams.
It's not that fred automatically becomes a lesser player as he chose us over City but how much impact he could have in our system to theirs is what he'd be Judged on.
They don't need a Def mid to necessarily open up a game with his passing or playmaking or the ability to dictate the game as they have two playmakers for it with a more cohesive and fluid attacking third. While, as we are not fluid or cohesive on that scale in final third, his passing and playmaking skills will have a direct impact on our efficiency in final third and he'd be judged on those parameters as well in our case. The energy and dynamism and midfield control he'd bring to any team is pretty much the same in both cases.
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I see people already starting to question him before he even trains with us, hell, before he even wears the shirt at all bar playing the piano.
We have no idea what Utd have lined up or how far down the road we are with targets.
Its just fans getting itchy because the journos are too busy covering the WC to make up nonsense about us.
Its the anti muppet summer and I kind of like it, feck even Ronaldo to Juve was speculated and done within days
So basically a Brazilian Fletcher?? I mean the Fletcher from 08-11 before his illness.
This.
I dont know why my original post seems to have been taken as writing Fred off. Thats not what I meant. Im personally superexcited to see a player from the Ukrainian league who I have been watching pretty regularly over the last three years make it to United. Im just saying: take it easy on the kid (OK, he is 25). It will be a major step-up for him though. The last major transfer from the Ukrainian league to a "bigger" European club was when Yarmolenko finally left Dynamo. For Dortmund. And he has done OK there. But damn: Yarmolenko was a different player from anyone else in our domestic league the last 2-3 years. Including Fred.
He should have left years ago. And he is doing OK in Germany, but not much more. Yarmolenko that is. A transfer to United though.... another animal. Fred isnt being helped by a short preseason due to the WC either.
But no one knows until we see Fred play for United. I hope he makes an instant impact and claws his way in the first team ASAP. Of course. Would be awesome! But it might not be the most realistic outcome.
I just dont want to see people to go all Kleberson on him if he doesnt really feature for the first team or establish himself the first season. Its unfair on him on basis on the quality of the league he has played in so far.
And a ltb off-topic: I think Mourinho will start the season pretty much as we finished it. With Smalling, Fellaini etc playing big roles It might not be the sexy decision but due to the short preseason and the need to get off to a good start I think Mourinho will go with the players that know his system. And we might have to wait a bit for players like Fred to get their opportunity. Not the end of the world me thinks.....
I do agree with this.
Jose is all about results and he will try to get the best results with the players he has at his disposal.
Unfortunately, it's not going to be "sexy football", but very much the kind of football we saw towards the end of last season.
Wish I didn't open this thread.
Fecking grim.
You could say that. You could say that Fred is just a really good water carrier with a bit of a pass on him. He's a proper team player.
Wow this thread is mental. A lot of football experts here giving an in depth run down on how Fred is and how he plays after watching him not at all or a few times. I have barely seen him play, we arent going to spend over £50m on a 25 year old to bed in him over a season or two, neither would I doubt we are buying him as a lesser player than Fellaini and Herrera. the person who said that has obfviously seen him more than me and others on here but why is everybody taking his word for it?
Utterly ludicrous comments on here. He has been bought to play first team football, whether he is a flop or a world class player lets see. Personally I am excited to see how he does as I hate Fellaini so anybody would be better, McTominay has done well in his first season but dont see him as a long term started and Herreras attitude I love but lets face it bar a period of 3/4 months he hasnt set the world alight. We have needed a signign there and Fred could be that man. The negativity I could understand if it is a player we all know well, but it isnt
Utterly ludicrous comments on here. He has been bought to play first team football, whether he is a flop or a world class player lets see. Personally I am excited to see how he does as I hate Fellaini so anybody would be better, McTominay has done well in his first season but dont see him as a long term started and Herreras attitude I love but lets face it bar a period of 3/4 months he hasnt set the world alight. We have needed a signign there and Fred could be that man. The negativity I could understand if it is a player we all know well, but it isnt
I haven't read the thread but I think I'll not bother! You're absolutely right he's been bought to fit straight into our team - that seems blindingly obvious to me anyway.