Facts don't matter anymore, that will be Trump's lasting legacy if there is one.
Future of Trumpism
- Thread starter Edgar Allan Pillow
- Start date
I think that's it. Race/ethnicity is often more complicated than I understand. I speak and read about it in simplistic ways when it is so complex. For example, some recent tweets from black NBA players, of all things, really opened my eyes to pervasive levels of anti-Semitism in the black community. I can classify people as "people of colour" and sometimes fail to remember what kind of diversity exists within that categorization and the sheer variety of viewpoints that exist in that group.
There is an interesting editorial here:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/18/opinion/biden-latino-vote-strategy.html
Some of what I see as race baiting against black or Hispanic people may be interpreted in a variety of ways by black and Hispanic voters.
I think part of it is also growing frustrating with the Democratic Party. Trump built on trends that were already under way with movement of black and Hispanic voters towards the Republicans. When Biden said "if you don't vote for me, you ain't black," a lot of black people talked about how they felt the Democratic party was taking their vote for granted.
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I’m not quite so convinced about Republican officials turning on him publicly as I was 3 years ago but I think the Donald Trump conspiracy tour is still nailed on and I think they will privately encourage measures which censor him (jail time) which will then allow them to cry foul of the Democrats and effectively turn him into a Martyr and the focal point of the 2024 election without actually having to deal with his shit anymore.
When have Republicans done anything that amounts to fiscal frugality? They successfully market themselves as the fiscally responsible, frugal party but: https://www.politifact.com/factchec...ican-presidents-democrats-contribute-deficit/
In that sense, Trump is no different to... well any other Republican, really.
Now that he's not potus all those rallies cost would have to come from his pocket.
I dont think they made money dollar wise from a rally
I dont think they made money dollar wise from a rally
There is no future in Trumpism. Shallow populist, a pretty terrible president who got elected because he was up against Clinton. Would have lost against any other reasonably decent candidate, probably including Biden in 2016. If the Dems hadn't annointed Clinton he might not have ever been president.
He capitalized on a larger problem to get elected though, one that also encompasses Brexit, HK protests, Catalonia and more. There is a deep problem with the global economy. All western countries moved pretty much all manufactured goods production to countries where wages are much lower, there isn't any environmental protection and the people working are essentially slaves who have no say in how their lives are run. It's a sick system, if greed is a sin, then the world is in big trouble.
Areas that previously had thriving manufacturing sectors and lots of well paying blue collar jobs have been decimated, for example the rust belt and especially MI or former industrial parts of Northern England. Trump and Brexit capitalized on this economic problem. Then you have elite liberalism in CA, NY, London and other places in the world. Where things have gone too far with being PC and where signaling rather than actually doing anything to fix issues like white privilege has become the norm. There is a huge backlash in the "ordinary" working population against a lot of that.
Wouldn't be surprised if a new movement forms taking these people under its wing, won't be about Trump though, he'll retire to the golf course.
He capitalized on a larger problem to get elected though, one that also encompasses Brexit, HK protests, Catalonia and more. There is a deep problem with the global economy. All western countries moved pretty much all manufactured goods production to countries where wages are much lower, there isn't any environmental protection and the people working are essentially slaves who have no say in how their lives are run. It's a sick system, if greed is a sin, then the world is in big trouble.
Areas that previously had thriving manufacturing sectors and lots of well paying blue collar jobs have been decimated, for example the rust belt and especially MI or former industrial parts of Northern England. Trump and Brexit capitalized on this economic problem. Then you have elite liberalism in CA, NY, London and other places in the world. Where things have gone too far with being PC and where signaling rather than actually doing anything to fix issues like white privilege has become the norm. There is a huge backlash in the "ordinary" working population against a lot of that.
Wouldn't be surprised if a new movement forms taking these people under its wing, won't be about Trump though, he'll retire to the golf course.
Don't take this the wrong way but you go on about this place like you've got some sort of endorsement deal with them.
Ugh are people actually going to call it that. Best to not speak of it and hope it dies.
Boris has done it over here to a lesser extent. But it's still very much the same principles and same techniques and tactics.
Yeah, watched a speech by him now, and he's a truly uninspiring character, fortunately.
Right, if you put it like that, the solution is firmly in place already. Was wondering if, beyond that, the Tucker Carlson line might have a future in GOP high politics, or if it's too "un-American" in the end.
Yup, the UK is not far behind America at all in the race to the bottom.
This. Trump's antics have been adapted all over the world, at times they've already been at practice before he entered the scene. I'm sure America will find someone who's filling the gap he's leaving to a certain extent. I believe Trump has redefined what politicians can get away with. Nobody would've thought that this level of lying, manipulation and malpractice could go unpunished, yet it did. It arguably creates a lot of resistance, too, and ultimately this seems to have been his downfall, but not everyone will agree with this notion so I'm sure that even if there won't be an "heir to his throne", lots of politicians will utilize his "methodology" if necessary. So in a way he might have made politics more dishonest.
Depends on what you define as Trumpism. I'm afraid he's shown other politicians that you can get away with dishonesty and malpractice. Blatant lies might become more common now. I believe it's important that Trump will be persecuted for his interference with the division of powers, too, because otherwise the system has serious weaknesses another ruthless president might exploit as long as he's got the support of his followers and his party controls the senate.
I'm wondering now if Ivanka is lining herself up for it, given that apparently last week for the first time she declared herself to be pro-life. Which runs completely contrary to her previous beliefs, and makes no sense at this point unless she's preparing for something that requires the support of the evangelicals. Could be some media related gig of course, but it was interesting none the less.
Ahead thank you very much. Brexit was always a bigger feck up than voting trump in. He only ever had 8 years of power. Brexit will feck a generation, maybe a few. Not to derail this thread.
What is Trumpism? The extreme right wing political ideology has always existed and often flourished, hasn't it? And even other than Trump, it's prevalent and dominant in many countries at the moment (mine included). It's true that Trump was the most high profile to occur (being the US) and also one of the more hyped democracies, but it's not beaten until it's beaten and it is much bigger than just him.
To be noted, that while Trump's vote share was always lesst han 50%, those like him in other countries' often enjoy a near dictatorial rule or public favour. On the other hand, he due to being quite a moron, and the nature of US politics (R vs B) never had a true strangehold over the country - hard for anyone to, overthere.
To be noted, that while Trump's vote share was always lesst han 50%, those like him in other countries' often enjoy a near dictatorial rule or public favour. On the other hand, he due to being quite a moron, and the nature of US politics (R vs B) never had a true strangehold over the country - hard for anyone to, overthere.
Is Trump really a gifted demagogue? Most of his speeches are incoherent rambling (and not the "good" kind you associate with various dictators) and blunt attacks on people or groups. What's special about him besides the Trump brand? And if the answer is nothing, why shouldn't one of his children carry on the torch or some other celebrity light a new one, say if Vince McMahon got interested in politics.
Trump is special because he had a place in America's common psyche for 35-40 years before running for president.
He’s not gifted in the traditional sense, but he is a very effective salesman for anything he gets behind, which is compounded by also being a highly accomplished liar who can not only weave an alternate reality out of thin air, but also convince large amounts of people to live in it. He’s been doing it consistently since the mid 80s and it became exponentially more toxic when he somehow managed to leverage the power of the Fox News empire to successfully pull off a four year coup on American politics. This sort of thing doesn’t happen by accident, it requires someone with a very unique skill set to pull it off over a period of time.
The Democrats need to work flat out to try to split the GOP into two distinct parties. The opportunity will emerge when the Republicans in congress have to publicly acknowledge the reality that Biden is president. I know establishment Republicans are trying to hedge for now... but it's a hard needle to thread for long. Trump will feck them over if he sees them as disloyal.
Aren't you giving him and the American electorate way too much credit here? That makes saying "it's Obama's fault" and "I'm the most/best x ever, no one has done more for x/fought harder against x than me" over and over again on every issue like a carefully executed craft. We're talking about a guy who said Corona was a hoax and who suggested ingesting bleach and was rewarded with over 80% approval for his handling of the Corona crisis by Republicans. Someone who can go with "drain the swamp" for a slogan while parading his close family around in goverment positions. I associate a skillful liar with someone who skillfully navigates and twists half-truths, not someone who just says random stuff that get's disproven immediately, but is blessed with a public that categorically rules out even the idea that the other side could be right and thus has no option left, but to dig in.
I have no idea what this means. My previous point still holds though. I’ve been watching the guy’s work since the mid 80s and he has clearly mastered the art of manipulating the masses, perhaps better than anyone in America’s history.
That it doesn't take that much skill to convince people who are already desperate to believe you on every issue, before you have even made your first argument.
Oh, they'll be cash cows now. He can charge admission fees, rake in the money for concessions and merchandising, and possibly pull in ad/sponsorship money for TV and streaming services.
Those are chunp changes at the end of the day. A full 40k stadium with 10 dollar ticket is only 400k. Minus expense venue entourage etc. Tv ads. Staffing. Marketing. Etc. We know trump isnt that savy. He bankrupted a casino
Merchandising more often than not lose money. Maga hats poster etc arent exclusive to trump. Anyone could produce and sell locally.
Plus if the numbers are true he's due half a billion loan from deutche bank. He could rally all weekend and he'll barely cover the interest.
I think suicide is on his mind somewhere. It's an easy way out. If he's indicted you bet people like him choose the easy way out rather than going to jail. Even if he does goes to jail he wont last long inside mentally and physically
He'll just declare bankruptcy on the business and Deutsche will write that off as unrecoverable.It's something he has done before and will do again.
How long do we think until Parler produces a domestic terrorist?
Im just that blown away by it.
Has there ever been some reliable opinon polls on why people voted Trump this time around? Wondering if there was something more in-depth than just getting an impression from social media(which might in any case be spot on).
I've not seen any data, but anecdotally people do like right wing policies like low tax, low regulation, tough on crime/borders and socially conservative principles. Whether or not that is validly what's objectively best for the country as a whole.
Clearly many people looked beyond Trump's persona to his platform. I don't think it's much different in the UK where people will accept Boris is a serial adulterer, liar and has said some fairly racist comments and yet won't think twice about voting for him.
Its easy to forget through the jubilation of Biden winning with a record vote tally that Trump still managed to amass 71 million votes, and thats during a pandemic and severe economic recession which he's objectively handled poorly.
So its clear to see that his support base won't be going anywhere anytime soon. Trump himself may no longer be the flag bearer for his own base in 2024 and beyond but someone will - its why its hardly a surprise that you have the usual lepers like Gingrich and Ted Cruz riding the narrative and outrage of this election supposedly being fraudulent. They want to carry his base into future elections.
So its clear to see that his support base won't be going anywhere anytime soon. Trump himself may no longer be the flag bearer for his own base in 2024 and beyond but someone will - its why its hardly a surprise that you have the usual lepers like Gingrich and Ted Cruz riding the narrative and outrage of this election supposedly being fraudulent. They want to carry his base into future elections.
That’s the scary bit.
It’d be nice to say that there are a few nut jobs out there but with 71M (allegedly, let’s see the recounts) voters for the worst US president in recent times it beggars belief and tbh could signal the end of US as a global force as it’s so fractured now that it’ll tear itself apart.
It’d be nice to say that there are a few nut jobs out there but with 71M (allegedly, let’s see the recounts) voters for the worst US president in recent times it beggars belief and tbh could signal the end of US as a global force as it’s so fractured now that it’ll tear itself apart.
I really don't want to lose the tiny little speck of faith I have left in humanity so I'm going to stay well clear of that place.
I did like this though.
They all can blow their own Trumpets.
I have an analogy between Trump, Obama, and the Supreme Court.
The 6-3 Supreme Court is going to be a decades-long obstacle to even mild liberal or conservative reforms like Obamacare. This is acknowledged by everybody. They throw a straitjacket over politics.
Obama plays the same role internally for the Democrats. Clyburn was a big deal but some people are making more of his impact than the reality. He made sure that Biden was the alternative to Bernie, but it was Obama who called the other candidates on March 1 and got them to quit and endorse Biden the day before Super Tuesday. With Obama's ~100% poularity among Democratic voters, his deep connections with Democratic donors, and his connections with Democratic elected officials, he *is* the party and can (as he has shown) keep the party in-line. He throws a straitjacket over the party.
The last one, more speculative, is Trump when Biden is president. He could play the same role. He goes around claiming he is the rightful president, that this Republican is a traitor, that one is a loyal friend, and half the GOP base will stick with his claims. Nowhere near as unanimous as the Obama love from the Dem base, and zero insitutional hold over the party, but he could be active (holding rallies, making loud endorsements in every race) in a way Obama is not. In other words, he could throw the straitjacket over his party.
This all depends on his health and energy I guess.
The 6-3 Supreme Court is going to be a decades-long obstacle to even mild liberal or conservative reforms like Obamacare. This is acknowledged by everybody. They throw a straitjacket over politics.
Obama plays the same role internally for the Democrats. Clyburn was a big deal but some people are making more of his impact than the reality. He made sure that Biden was the alternative to Bernie, but it was Obama who called the other candidates on March 1 and got them to quit and endorse Biden the day before Super Tuesday. With Obama's ~100% poularity among Democratic voters, his deep connections with Democratic donors, and his connections with Democratic elected officials, he *is* the party and can (as he has shown) keep the party in-line. He throws a straitjacket over the party.
The last one, more speculative, is Trump when Biden is president. He could play the same role. He goes around claiming he is the rightful president, that this Republican is a traitor, that one is a loyal friend, and half the GOP base will stick with his claims. Nowhere near as unanimous as the Obama love from the Dem base, and zero insitutional hold over the party, but he could be active (holding rallies, making loud endorsements in every race) in a way Obama is not. In other words, he could throw the straitjacket over his party.
This all depends on his health and energy I guess.
I don't think Bernie would have beaten Trump. I thought early on he would but seeing how many votes Trump got I now don't think so. Just my opinion.
The future of Trumpism is a gradual, slow decline. Eventually, in a decade or so, it will become a hardcore of Q-Anoners arguing amongst themselves as to whether Q was a Deep State plot to divert their attention from real electoral politics, or, even worse, whether Q was Barack Obama himself.
I thought he is most gifted in bullshitting and always have an upper hand when arguing with his opponents or journalist face to face. I rarely seen him loss a face to face argument anyway, although all he does is bullshitting his way out of trouble. His tweeter though is a joke.
I wouldn't say that Trump was exactly like an Athenian style demagogue trained in oratory and sophistry but I can understand why Trump appeals through the way he speaks and why people would find it engaging.
It's extremely simple and crass but it's effective in terms of appealing to a specific audience and more forceful than say Boris Johnson, who I think is a terrible speaker. Trump is just not constrained by morals or the pretense of a higher ground which makes him stand out so much. He also carries it with a machismo, confidence and level of BS that is, well, different I guess.
Trumpism is the present and I think it's here to say.
I think he himself is just a symptom of something far more sinister and hard to change. Social media culture is uncharted territory for democracies. And I see no way to solve it that isn't oppressive, so the most obvious solution is in itself a defeat.
I think he himself is just a symptom of something far more sinister and hard to change. Social media culture is uncharted territory for democracies. And I see no way to solve it that isn't oppressive, so the most obvious solution is in itself a defeat.