Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

Fully Fledged

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She didn't have to work hard to convince them though, they had a literal demigod present who was able to inform everyone that Littlefinger had murdered their lord and that he'd been responsible for orchestrating the war of the five kings.
A real player will use every advantage they have got.
 

Sylar

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Omg @Redlambs

I've been binge watching the seasons again to get my gf caught up. She watched the last episode that aired and I kid you not at the end she said

"I bet that horse is the faceless jagger guy to help arya" :lol:
 

Redlambs

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Omg @Redlambs

I've been binge watching the seasons again to get my gf caught up. She watched the last episode that aired and I kid you not at the end she said

"I bet that horse is the faceless jagger guy to help arya" :lol:
I'm telling you man. It's next level thinking.

My gf has threatened to leave me for week if he even turns up in the last episode, because apparantly I'll be insufferable. I still hope he does!

;)
 

Mr Pigeon

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I'm telling you man. It's next level thinking.

My gf has threatened to leave me for week if he even turns up in the last episode, because apparantly I'll be insufferable. I still hope he does!

;)
If she does leave please please PLEASE say to her as she leaves "babe, wait." And then when she turns around and waits for an apology just look her up and down and then say "I guess that now a girl has no one"
 

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Ok so thinking about it my basic theory on what’s likely to happen:

Firstly, Jon will surely retreat back to the north. He’s not going to confront her in the ashes of kings landing.

Which makes sense because we will then see a few familiar faces again in Sansa, Bran, Brienne and co.

So they’re going to have to figure out a way to defeat her and I expect Bran will have an answer for that.
 

Cheesy

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Ok so thinking about it my basic theory on what’s likely to happen:

Firstly, Jon will surely retreat back to the north. He’s not going to confront her in the ashes of kings landing.

Which makes sense because we will then see a few familiar faces again in Sansa, Bran, Brienne and co.

So they’re going to have to figure out a way to defeat her and I expect Bran will have an answer for that.
"We're out of ideas Bran. What do we do?"

"By any chance do we have a deadly assassin kicking around?"

"..."
 

Fully Fledged

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The problem with these type of videos is they're finding evidence to support an argument while ignoring all the evidence to argue against it. Has anyone done a video yet which looks at both arguments and comes to a conclusion? Or are all the videos either For or Against?
I think that video comes across as measured. I don't think the person making it is happy with Dany going full dragon. he just accepts that is what was planned and that there was evidence that this would happen even though he doesn't really like the fact she did.

Personally I didn't for a second think that it was unprecedented. I always saw Dany as a cruel leader who answered any challenge to her rule with extreme violence. I was never team Dany because of this view I had of her.

He is far more on the side of Looking back you can see this but I don't like it than I am.
 

Fully Fledged

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"We're out of ideas Bran. What do we do?"

"By any chance do we have a deadly assassin kicking around?"

"..."
I'm hoping our deadly assassin comes to that conclusion all on her own. I hope she uses a face to do it though rather than just trying to use stealth to sneak past all Dany's guards.
 

RedSky

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I think that video comes across as measured. I don't think the person making it is happy with Dany going full dragon. he just accepts that is what was planned and that there was evidence that this would happen even though he doesn't really like the fact she did.

Personally I didn't for a second think that it was unprecedented. I always saw Dany as a cruel leader who answered any challenge to her rule with extreme violence. I was never team Dany because of this view I had of her.

He is far more on the side of Looking back you can see this but I don't like it than I am.
The argument is that there's plenty of evidence to also suggest that this wouldn't happen (at least to the degree of bloodlust she showed). I guess they simply hedged their bets and made it plausible for both storyline options. I'd like to see someone tackle the Daenerys storyline in more depth rather than simply someone going "well this happened and this happened". It's basically just that meme list.
 

Fully Fledged

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I think if that happens, i'll actually not finish the episode. I'd turn it off.
She been my favourite character since her father died so it's what I'd want to happen. She's the also the only feasible way I see of killing Dany. I don't see how anybody else can get close enough.
 

Fully Fledged

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The argument is that there's plenty of evidence to also suggest that this wouldn't happen (at least to the degree of bloodlust she showed). I guess they simply hedged their bets and made it plausible for both storyline options. I'd like to see someone tackle the Daenerys storyline in more depth rather than simply someone going "well this happened and this happened". It's basically just that meme list.
I think they gave us the clues while while trying to keep people on the side of team Dany so that when the turn happened it hurt all the more. I just always thought that she was too viscous for my liking.

Edit: Only too viscous as a ruler. I love Arya but the psychotic little bitch should never get anywhere near the throne.
 

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She been my favourite character since her father died so it's what I'd want to happen. She's the also the only feasible way I see of killing Dany. I don't see how anybody else can get close enough.
She's a character i've grown to dislike since her training days and now she's a walking plot solver. So to have the two greatest threats in Westeros be killed by Arya after also surviving the Kings Landing roast would be a massive anti climax for me. I think they are heading that direction given the screentime she's had this Season though. But feck me would I hate if the story finished that way. I'd have a week long grump face. I'm hoping she tries it and gets caught and either killed or imprisoned.
 

Fully Fledged

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She's a character i've grown to dislike since her training days and now she's a walking plot solver. So to have the two greatest threats in Westeros be killed by Arya after also surviving the Kings Landing roast would be a massive anti climax for me. I think they are heading that direction given the screentime she's had this Season though. But feck me would I hate if the story finished that way. I'd have a week long grump face. I'm hoping she tries it and gets caught and either killed or imprisoned.
With Dany having a dragon and being surrounded by her army how does anybody else get close to her though?

Varys' little bird would also be a good solution to me.
 

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How has it only taken until now for a petition with over half a million signatures to get out over the decline of quality on GoT? :lol:

I mean I’ve seen it clearly deteriorate since Season 5 and I was disappointed about how it was turning out back then with the dialogue, mystery and clever political intrigue giving way big time for DWAGONS N FITEING N ZOMBEES. I’m pretty numb to it now and I don’t really care anyway since the books will hopefully come.
 

Chairman Steve

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I refuse to watch the last episode of the fifth season ever again after D&D bastardised Stannis into the dirt in that episode and I’m surprised there wasn’t more uproar back then. Probably because Stannis didn’t have tits, dragons and fan fiction behind him, even though he’s a well written character with an interesting arc about him.

I guess the Daenerys fangirls didn’t care too much about someone who probably reminded them of their real life dads.
 
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Sylar

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Stannis was the ultimate pretender
Loses two big battles (second one in embarrising style thanks to Ramsay and his 20 good men

His only wins was defeating wildlings after they were already defeated by the watchers on the wall

And had to use a demon baby to cowardly defeat his younger brother.
 

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I refuse to watch the last episode of the fifth season ever again after D&D bastardised Stannis into the dirt in that episode and I’m surprised there wasn’t more uproar back then. Probably because Stannis didn’t have tits, dragons and fan fiction behind him, even though he’s a well written character with an interesting arc about him.

I guess the Daenerys fangirls didn’t care too much about someone who probably reminded them of their real life dads.
Yeah Stannis got fecked over with the famous Ramsey move. That was laughed at for being really fecking dumb at the time. Little did we know what was going to come! :lol:
 

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I hope none of you slit your wrists come Sunday/Monday. Remember, whatever happens, it's only a TV show.
 

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I hope none of you slit your wrists come Sunday/Monday. Remember, whatever happens, it's only a TV show.
I'm hoping for the opposite, it will save me having to listen to all the butt hurt in here over the show not doing what they wanted it to do.
 

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I do kind of wonder if there are two different cohorts of fans. People who enjoyed the moral ambiguity and people who tolerated it in the hope/expectation that it would resolved with the classical fantasy storyline of a hero(ine) defeating evil and saving the day. And it's the latter group of fans can't deal with Jon being a dopey, incompetent sap, Darys being a psychopath or Jaime turning out to be a bit of a loser. Hence we get all the moaning about "arcs" despite the writers essentially staying true to a premise that was established fairly early on. Everyone in the show is flawed and fallible.

This is so true.

The series did get worse season 5 onwards. I have zero issues though with Daenerys turning evil and thought the last episode was one of the best of the last seasons.
 

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I guess my issue lies with the artistic presentation which, in the last two seasons, is closer to Marvel than to Martin's original work. Visually it's stunning but the tone of the series has definitely changed a lot. I'm not one of the people who will refer to D & D as "dumb and dumber" since Benioff has written two books i thoroughly enjoyed (one of them, the 25th Hour, became an excellent movie too) but i can't help but feel that they really missed a trick here.

I didn't expect the show to end with Daenerys becoming a benevolent ruler and restoring order in Westeros. Dany's character development from a "breaker of chains" who would break the wheel (her own words) into the Mad Queen is a development that could definitely make sense on the show. In fact, it is a development that seems much closer to Martin's worldview than to any LotR-like "happy ending". A worldview where the darkness that resides in the human soul and the absurdity of violence upon which each phase of human civilization has been built steadily lead a civilization to ash.

Some of my favourite scenes in the show where the ones with Tyrion and Jorah travelling through the ruins of Valyria, a civilization that once stood great and proud but now lies forgotten in debris with death being the only thing that has survived. That was back when the writers still had the time and the will to portray the show's worldview on screen and not on the next week's "previously on GoT". So, you're right that Dany will become a psycho, Jamie will be a loser, Jon will be an incompetent sap. And in the background, Stannis will always be burning Shireen alive and all the great buildings in KL will be burnt to the ground.

After the original material ran out, the narration became more minimalistic, more "1+1=2". This has hurt the show in the same manner in which the writing has hurt the second season of Westworld. The characters lose their depth, their "three-dimensional" status, and become just symbols that represent just one thing. The problem with GoT is that its characters were never like that. Despite Daenerys becoming the Mad Queen always being in the cards, her transformation seems plausible because it is in tune with the heart and soul of the story overall but it was completely out of sync with everything we've been watching up until the main characters started talking about it in the last two episodes. You could see this particular outcome but it was handled with very little grace. This should have been an episode that would make TV history. And not just for its special effects.

Sorry about the rant, just my two cents on the matter.


This is a pretty good post with criticism.
I have no issue with most of the points in this.

I’m just not at all in agreement with people who generally say Daenerys couldn’t or shouldn’t have turned evil.
 

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How has it only taken until now for a petition with over half a million signatures to get out over the decline of quality on GoT? :lol:

I mean I’ve seen it clearly deteriorate since Season 5 and I was disappointed about how it was turning out back then with the dialogue, mystery and clever political intrigue giving way big time for DWAGONS N FITEING N ZOMBEES. I’m pretty numb to it now and I don’t really care anyway since the books will hopefully come.
Hehe.
 

amolbhatia50k

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This is a pretty good post with criticism.
I have no issue with most of the points in this.

I’m just not at all in agreement with people who generally say Daenerys couldn’t or shouldn’t have turned evil.
Anyone can turn evil. Depends on how you take her from point A to B. Her journey was a bit of a car crash, which is the entire issue. The red wedding and Ned's beheading wasn't criticized as being terribly done, despite being a shocking turn events.
 

amolbhatia50k

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That video really just vindicates what happened. Loads of hints in earlier seasons that she's capable of brutality. Which is an obvious risk when you have someone who comes from a family of people known to go crazy. They even set that up in this season, with the stuff Varys said about tossing a coin.

Then we have her endure a bunch of traumatic events and boom, she loses it. As in, has a full on breakdown. And full on breakdowns don't occur gradually over several months/years. In real life too. Look how often you hear about families/friends of people who suddenly murder their whole family - or commit school shootings - saying they were nice, normal people who they couldn't ever imagine doing such a terrible thing.

The storyline here is someone we know is capable of extreme brutality literally losing their mind in front of us. And - all things considered - we can't reasonably complain it was unexpected.
Again, the major complaints arent that it was unexpected - many saw this coming. But as has been alluded to before, and the video summarises it very logically, for this moment to be truly realised, there needed to be far more ground work laid, and seeds sown, which simply did not happen.

Now if you're satisfied with Dany (I use this becuase I can't spell her blood name) being one of those mental nutjobs who do something completely nutjob-ey like butchering their family in a fit of rage, despite very little precedent for that action (as has been stated she has punished those that she felt deserved it in the past, not innocent people), then fair enough. But there's a reason why those nutjob-ey acts /characters don't make for interesting characters on television shows and it's becuase people don't want to see random stuff happening (usually) and the impact is heightened when you can piece things together in a believable manner when there and then, or in hindsight.

I'm fine with those who are GoT as merely 'good fun' like you would with a Marvel flick but I think it's fair to say that many used to see it as something far far better, and are reasonably disappointed to see it's level dropping to that standard.
 

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Anyone can turn evil. Depends on how you take her from point A to B. Her journey was a bit of a car crash, which is the entire issue. The red wedding and Ned's beheading wasn't criticized as being terribly done, despite being a shocking turn events.
Both those events were perfectly in keeping with the characters involved though.

Whilst I've been one on here pretty much ok with Dany's turn, it's still a different thing between her going crazy and burning down the keep with her enemies inside (causing collateral damage) and another with how she literally just flew over the streets suddenly deciding to burn the innocents.

The twist was never shocking anyway. I think that's why they decided to go down that route.