Gary Neville Last Night

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

Which of the last title winners had a strong, young, British core of players in their squad?

Because as someone mentioned, most likely this idea of getting young British players in and it will make us title challengers is a big misnomer.

 

[redIndianDevil]

You could argue that the game passed LvG by, but Mourinho won the league two years before going to Old Trafford. It's a ridiculous suggestion regarding him. What I'm guessing you literally mean is that he doesn't play the type of football that is in vogue now, therefore he's past it.

He may have won the title recently but the meltdown he had at a club that held him in a legendary status should have indicated that he was in a downward spiral. It's not just that Mourinho's football is not good to watch but he has changed completely, Mourinho in his first Chelsea days never threw any player under the bus, that is why he was able to develop that siege mentality, but the Mourinho post his Madrid stint was a completely different guy, he always wanted to defend himself and always found excuses to shirk any responsibilities.

 

[Stacks]

We appointed a top class manager in Jose and Lvg, how that turn out?

One finished 2nd and won 2 trophies with this shite squad. the other won an FA Cup and made top 4. All were better than this shiteshow. Just because some did nt work thats no excuse to give up. Some Managers can coach their way out of a bad situation...thats if they can coach of course

 

[Eric7C]

But then it goes to show he's a fan;prone to knee jerk and trenchant at the same time. He gets it wrong at times.

Except when it comes to Pogba, against whom he certainly has an agenda. So in summation, he is a terrible pundit because he is prone to knee jerk and he is a terrible fan because he wants to hound out our most creative player.

Why would you expect such arguments on the forum?You're doing the Caf a disservice in assuming that there aren't people with valid,informed opinions. Posters who just maybe as academically qualified to make strong arguments. Not all football fans are thick...unless it's Chelsea

Cause you can see them here
Favorite of the week: those who want Ole to be DoF on the basis that he signed two of the most obvious players in Maguire and AWB, and James for 15m. The mind boggles.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Your not considered that we have been missing 6 first team players from yesterday, with Pogba, Wan Bissaka, Shaw, Martial and Lindelof coming back adding 3 players of top quality would be enough. Striker, Midfielder and Winger.

I have considered it.

We aren’t 3 players away.

 

[BusbyMalone]

The man has absolutely no credibility on this issue. I don't care that he thinks Ole should get more time (that's his opinion), but he will never, ever criticise the manager and put the blame on him - he even said this. So immediately he loses all credibility, because despite evidence to the contrary, he would never go against the manager and say that he's out of his depth.

Again, it's got nothing to do with him wanting Ole to have more time or not, it's the fact that he will never blame the manager or say that it's time for him to go is the issue here. It's a ridiculous stand to take.

 

[Reapersoul20]

Laughing out loud at his inability to answer simple questions from Jamie and Souness. He talks about different direction but when Graham asks in what sense he changes the subject

I was actually laughing at how much of a gowl Sounness was being there. "In what sense"? It should be fairly fecking patently obvious unless you're a complete and total idiot.

 

[hobbers]

Your not considered that we have been missing 6 first team players from yesterday, with Pogba, Wan Bissaka, Shaw, Martial and Lindelof coming back adding 3 players of top quality would be enough. Striker, Midfielder and Winger.

Shaw doesn't have a body capable of playing weekly Prem football, that's beyond obvious right now, the guy is more injury prone than Smalling and Jones put together.

Martial is quality about 1 game in every 3.

Lindelof was upstaged by Tuanzebe.

Pogba wants to leave

And then the 6th player in that list is Lingard, less said about his impact on our football the better.

 

[ILC]

I was actually laughing at how much of a gowl Sounness was being there. "In what sense"? It should be fairly fecking patently obvious unless you're a complete and total idiot.

Well I must be a complete and total idiot then. Changing the nationality of players you spend boatloads of cash on is not changing a direction. Renewing contract of 'deadwood' then struggling to sell them is not changing a direction.

Cheap excuse for a cheap excuse of a manager.

 

[M Bison]

Everything he said made complete sense in my view, he's obviously hurt himself with the way things are going and that is evident in what he's saying and how he's saying it, but the points he make are spot on - as is the case 9 times out of 10.

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

Interesting and valid points.

I certainly have ambivalent feelings towards all of them right now: Ole, players etc. Of course it's based on the latest performance(s)

The different styles point is the best one IMO.

5-6 players

I think it’s cowardly that he’s not willing to call out Ole....Any team would improve with 5-6 top class players as he puts it....Even Southampton would finish 4th with “5-6 top class” players....The point is whether Oles doing a good enough job to stay in charge.He sure as hell isnt....

 

[Josep Dowling]

We appointed a top class manager in Jose and Lvg, how that turn out?

So because two top class managers didn't work out we should give the job to someone who has no experience at the very top? I've never heard something so stupid in my life. Top class managers have failed at all the top clubs in the world.

I agreed with some of Gary's points but simply saying we need to spend another £300-£400m is completely wrong. Neville wanted to change the subject but Manchester United were the biggest spenders in the league again this season. We have consistently been one of the biggest spenders since Moyes (I am talking gross spend here).

So at this point you have to ask yourself why are we spending more but not getting any end product? Why are we spending more than any other club? Why does every player we want cost more than other clubs? Liverpool's front three cost less than £30m each. Why can't we find players at that price?

Never thought I'd say it but I was in complete agreement with Souness last night.

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

So because two top class managers didn't work out we should give the job to someone who has no experience at the very top? I've never heard something so stupid in my life. Top class managers have failed at all the top clubs in the world.

I agreed with some of Gary's points but simply saying we need to spend another £300-£400m is completely wrong. Neville wanted to change the subject but Manchester United were the biggest spenders in the league again this season. We have consistently been one of the biggest spenders since Moyes (I am talking gross spend here).

So at this point you have to ask yourself why are we spending more but not getting any end product? Why are we spending more than any other club? Why does every player we want cost more than other clubs? Liverpool's front three cost less than £30m each. Why can't we find players at that price?

Never thought I'd say it but I was in complete agreement with Souness last night.

Agree.Just because 2 high profile managers fail,it doesn’t mean that we give the job to a guy at Molde....Utterly idiotic....

 

[Foxbatt]

No matter what anyone says LVG got us into CL his first year and then won the FA Cup in his second year and we were 5th and he got sacked.
Jose came and won the League Cup and the EL and then was second in the PL with points that many times may have won the PL. Yes his third year was a disaster.
Ole has been a disaster already. He is not going to win anything and probably could get us into a relegation fight.
You don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that Maguire is a top English CB and AWB is a top rb.
Heck anyone in CAF could tell that.
As someone else had said it, the players he sold would have walked into this team.

 

[red thru&thru]

So because two top class managers didn't work out we should give the job to someone who has no experience at the very top? I've never heard something so stupid in my life. Top class managers have failed at all the top clubs in the world.

I agreed with some of Gary's points but simply saying we need to spend another £300-£400m is completely wrong. Neville wanted to change the subject but Manchester United were the biggest spenders in the league again this season. We have consistently been one of the biggest spenders since Moyes (I am talking gross spend here).

So at this point you have to ask yourself why are we spending more but not getting any end product? Why are we spending more than any other club? Why does every player we want cost more than other clubs? Liverpool's front three cost less than £30m each. Why can't we find players at that price?

Never thought I'd say it but I was in complete agreement with Souness last night.

Answer these questions?

 

[devilo]

Your not considered that we have been missing 6 first team players from yesterday, with Pogba, Wan Bissaka, Shaw, Martial and Lindelof coming back adding 3 players of top quality would be enough. Striker, Midfielder and Winger.

If you don't believe we need two central midfielders plus a new number 10 in addition to a new striker and winger then I think you're kidding yourself. The reason we're not winning games is a complete lack of control and craft in the middle of the park.

 

[red thru&thru]

Agree.Just because 2 high profile managers fail,it doesn’t mean that we give the job to a guy at Molde....Utterly idiotic....

By the way, I have NEVER said Ole should have had the job or keep his job, so let's clear that from the outset. My issue is with the incompetent Ed and his board. If a manager is in charge and responsible for the on field performances, then Ed is also in charge and responsible of Manchester United. If a manager gets the sack for not delivering, Ed also hasn't delivered, so he also should get the sack.

 

[Cassidy]

Maybe I'm a fool but I genuinely believe Gary at first tried to stick to what he knew in his job at Sky; criticising play he could see on the pitch and occasionally extrapolating to what he imagined the players were being told/the atmosphere in the dressing room based on the play. He rarely called managers out and went nowhere near the boardroom as he saw it outside his area of expertise.

Now it's clear you cannot properly appraise United's plight without mentioning every echelon of the club, including the board and the manager, Gary has changed his tune. This has angered some fans but I honestly feel he was late to the party, and arguably remains slow on the uptake, for the good reason that he doesn't feel qualified and comfortable enough to jump in on management and boardroom matters. Again I might be a fool on this matter .

You missed the point of my post. I was referring to him talking down fans at a fan forum saying the clubs board have changed direction and that we had taken the right approch with regards to transfers this summer.

He made the point that the club were right not to sign Dybala etc and that we had to wait for the right players, and that they have changed the plan and we need to wait for them to carry it out before criticising.

2 months later he has changed his tune because result have gone badly, however he was defending the board against fans only 2 months ago

Gary before the summer was very vocal about the board and Woodward called for spending etc. Then the window closed and he backtracked. Now again he is backtracking

 

[Lentwood]

Neville's idea of direction is simply about signings. How is Ole's football different from Mou's? Why is it that the next manager in charge can't be tasked with having the same direction as Ole when it comes to transfers? Neville's point isn't a good one.

"There are things I like out there today." - Neville
"What did you like out there?"
"I liked Tuanzebe and Maguire." - Neville

Seriously? The evidence is simply the players playing? What about the football?

This “what about the football” point is one of the most ill-informed I keep seeing on this forum day in day out

According to you lot, Moyes, LvG, Jose and Ole all apparently set our team up to play boring, tumescent, slow-paced football.

When. Will. You. Realise? The Players. Are. Absolute. Garbage!

Mata is finished in the major European leagues and needs to head to the calmer climates of the MLS or China

Pereira is a Championship standard player.

Rashford is never in a million zillion years a Premier League standard CF. Arguably he may be a mediocre winger, he’s definitely an extremely bad CF

Fred wouldn’t get into a single other PL side

Lingard, a man without a goal or assist in the PL this calendar year is our best #10

The back five plus McTominay are absolutely fine. The front four/five, without Pogba and Martial, would struggle to make an impact in the Championship. Fact.

 

[ravi2]

This “what about the football” point is one of the most ill-informed I keep seeing on this forum day in day out

According to you lot, Moyes, LvG, Jose and Ole all apparently set our team up to play boring, tumescent, slow-paced football.

When. Will. You. Realise? The Players. Are. Absolute. Garbage!

Mata is finished in the major European leagues and needs to head to the calmer climates of the MLS or China

Pereira is a Championship standard player.

Rashford is never in a million zillion years a Premier League standard CF. Arguably he may be a mediocre winger, he’s definitely an extremely bad CF

Fred wouldn’t get into a single other PL side

Lingard, a man without a goal or assist in the PL this calendar year is our best #10

The back five plus McTominay are absolutely fine. The front four/five, without Pogba and Martial, would struggle to make an impact in the Championship. Fact.

Agreed. We have a solid defense when everyone is fit and that's about it for the positives.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Which of the last title winners had a strong, young, British core of players in their squad?

Because as someone mentioned, most likely this idea of getting young British players in and it will make us title challengers is a big misnomer.

We had a British core at first, but still had to bring in a Danish goalkeeper and our mercurial Frenchman to get us over the line. We then brought in the best players, but there was no bias towards British players, it didn't matter where they were from as long as they improved the team.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Agreed. We have a solid defense when everyone is fit and that's about it for the positives.

Agree. It is the midfield to me that is the problem. No creativity there. Improve that and it will help the forward line. Then go for a top class striker next summer. Can just see us plugging the gaps with short term or cheap fixes.

 

[Devil may care]

Neville talks out of both sides of his mouth, full of shit. We all know Woodward is in need of removing, but who was it that chose not to buy a CM or forward this summer? If it wasn't Ole and that means he wasn't backed he should have walked away. At the end of the day the squad is poor but there's no way we should be this bad, tactically devoid of ideas and with no system of play, that's on Ole.

I notice Neville has said several times "I like this team, I didn't like the previous team"..Lets see, the players that have gone are Herrera, Lukaku, Sanchez and Darmian, so that's Johnny Foreigner out and the 3 we have brought in are all British......yeah.

People keep pointing to the signings as something to applaud Ole for, lets be real, we paid a world record fee for Maguire who played in a World Cup semi final, it's not like we plucked a gem out of nowhere for a bargain. AWB cost £50M and was also touted every week by various pundits, however he can only do half the job of a modern fullback and he plays on the side of the pitch where we don't even have a forward to partially compensate for it. Then there's Dan James, he scored a couple of crackers and he works his ass off, but he's not pulling up trees, he's super raw and should be coming off the bench to hurt teams with his speed late in games, we are just so threadbare he has to start all of the time.

If we sack Ole, get a more proven manager and keep Woodward nothing will change in terms of not being in the mix for titles, but simply we'd be back in the top 6 mix. there's enough in this team to get that. If we sack Woodward and keep Ole we would likely still be floundering because he looks completely lost, managers with worse players coach them into more cohesive teams.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

You missed the point of my post. I was referring to him talking down fans at a fan forum saying the clubs board have changed direction and that we had taken the right approch with regards to transfers this summer.

He made the point that the club were right not to sign Dybala etc and that we had to wait for the right players, and that they have changed the plan and we need to wait for them to carry it out before criticising.

2 months later he has changed his tune because result have gone badly, however he was defending the board against fans only 2 months ago

Gary before that before the summer was very vocal about the board and Woodward called for spending etc. Then the window closed and he backtracked. Now again he is backtracking

OK I didn't know you were referring to the fan forum. I think fans have every right to be disappointed with Gary's reticence to blame the board and the seemingly mixed signals he gives out re. our poor situation. I maintain part of that is down to him feeling able to criticise poor football and to an extent poor squad building while feeling less able to hammer those at the executive level.

However overall I don't see a huge contradiction in his stance across the last 12 months. He is on the record as thinking the board have made a mess post-Fergie, then he calls for fans to buy into the change of direction from Di Maria/Falcao/Sanchez to Maguire/AWB/James then finally he gives the board more stick once results continue to be poor as they have 'cocked it up over many years'. Just because you wanted Ole to have a chance this season with his new-look backline, and wanted to credit the move from Galatico-lite to a clearer build for the future, does not mean you've flip-flopped on your overall appraisal of the execs, who every man and his dog know have performed sub-optimally post-Fergie.

 

[Deery]

If you don't believe we need two central midfielders plus a new number 10 in addition to a new striker and winger then I think you're kidding yourself. The reason we're not winning games is a complete lack of control and craft in the middle of the park.

You honestly think the Glazers are going to go out and spend £300m on players when they only spend £40m this season after getting totally outplayed by Everton at the end of last year?
I honestly believe that 3 really top class players could change this team around I mean look what Suarez did for Liverpool and there weren’t to many complaints after we beat Chelsea 4-0 with all the players available.

But yeah I understand that we could improve in a lot more positions but we’re never going to do that, you could easily say we need a new starting 11 to compete.

 

[Champagne Football]

No matter what anyone says LVG got us into CL his first year and then won the FA Cup in his second year and we were 5th and he got sacked.
Jose came and won the League Cup and the EL and then was second in the PL with points that many times may have won the PL. Yes his third year was a disaster.
Ole has been a disaster already. He is not going to win anything and probably could get us into a relegation fight.
You don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that Maguire is a top English CB and AWB is a top rb.
Heck anyone in CAF could tell that.
As someone else had said it, the players he sold would have walked into this team.

The reality is that of all 3 managers you mentioned, none of them were suited to this club.
Van Gaal and Jose were disasters. Ole is trying to rebuild a shipwreck left by the other 2.
Ole has no track record in doing this successfully before, and so far has been a disaster due to thinking he could transform Andreas Pereira, Juan Mata, Lingard and Fred into world class performers, by simply giving them more love and game time.

 

[devilo]

You honestly think the Glazers are going to go out and spend £300m on players when they only spend £40m this season after getting totally outplayed by Everton at the end of last year?
I honestly believe that 3 really top class players could change this team around I mean look what Suarez did for Liverpool and there weren’t to many complaints after we beat Chelsea 4-0 with all the players available.

But yeah I understand that we could improve in a lot more positions but we’re never going to do that, you could easily say we need a new starting 11 to compete.

No mate I don't, I was just making the point of how much is required in reality.

My issues aren't with the manager, the coaches or the current crop players, despite not being up to the job. For me, the owners and their stooge are the root problem here and until that changes we're going to experience many more days like yesterday i'm afraid.

 

[red thru&thru]

The reality is that of all 3 managers you mentioned, none of them were suited to this club.
Van Gaal and Jose were disasters. Ole is trying to rebuild a shipwreck left by the other 2.
Ole has no track record in doing this successfully before, and so far has been a disaster due to thinking he could transform Andreas Pereira, Juan Mata, Lingard and Fred into world class performers, by simply giving them more love and game time.

Thank Ed and the board for this. SHOCKING how they keep getting away with this.

 

[Florida Man]

This “what about the football” point is one of the most ill-informed I keep seeing on this forum day in day out

According to you lot, Moyes, LvG, Jose and Ole all apparently set our team up to play boring, tumescent, slow-paced football.

When. Will. You. Realise? The Players. Are. Absolute. Garbage!

Mata is finished in the major European leagues and needs to head to the calmer climates of the MLS or China

Pereira is a Championship standard player.

Rashford is never in a million zillion years a Premier League standard CF. Arguably he may be a mediocre winger, he’s definitely an extremely bad CF

Fred wouldn’t get into a single other PL side

Lingard, a man without a goal or assist in the PL this calendar year is our best #10

The back five plus McTominay are absolutely fine. The front four/five, without Pogba and Martial, would struggle to make an impact in the Championship. Fact.

It’s funny how Ole once said that management is easy when you have quality players, which he was referring to our current crop.

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

@Lentwood
Do you realize this isn’t the same squad of players that Moyes had? Or Van Gaal?
We’ve bought many players since 2013, sold a whole lot too.

The vast majority of these player are better footballers than Ole is a manager.
But they’re nowhere near good enough to carry an incompetent manager.

 

[AneRu]

Which of the last title winners had a strong, young, British core of players in their squad?

Because as someone mentioned, most likely this idea of getting young British players in and it will make us title challengers is a big misnomer.

This along with a kneejerk managerial appointment is where things got off the wrong footing for the summer rebuild. There were even rumours of disquiet by the foreign contingent, and I think Lukaku touched on this, where the bug players got the blame whilst the English contingent barely got any criticism and some were rewarded with huge contracts. I also think you could get players as good or as effective as Maguire, AWB and James for half the price we paid for them if they weren't British, they have had good starts to their careers but the ideology behind their recruitment was flawed.

 

[RuudTom83]

Not criticising Ole isn’t something new from Gary, he is rarely critical of any manager the club has hired.

So I don’t expect him to change now.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I think it’s cowardly that he’s not willing to call out Ole....Any team would improve with 5-6 top class players as he puts it....Even Southampton would finish 4th with “5-6 top class” players....The point is whether Oles doing a good enough job to stay in charge.He sure as hell isnt....

Sign Messi Ronaldo VVD and KDB, then we can judge Ole. Yeah, so, no?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Not criticising Ole isn’t something new from Gary, he is rarely critical of any manager the club has hired.

So I don’t expect him to change now.

Funnily he should know all about incompetent managers rightfully getting sacked

 

[amolbhatia50k]

@Lentwood
Do you realize this isn’t the same squad of players that Moyes had? Or Van Gaal?
We’ve bought many players since 2013, sold a whole lot too.

The vast majority of these player are better footballers than Ole is a manager.
But they’re nowhere near good enough to carry an incompetent manager.

Bingo. The gaping hole in the players argument

 

[Russky14]

So because two top class managers didn't work out we should give the job to someone who has no experience at the very top? I've never heard something so stupid in my life. Top class managers have failed at all the top clubs in the world.

I agreed with some of Gary's points but simply saying we need to spend another £300-£400m is completely wrong. Neville wanted to change the subject but Manchester United were the biggest spenders in the league again this season. We have consistently been one of the biggest spenders since Moyes (I am talking gross spend here).

So at this point you have to ask yourself why are we spending more but not getting any end product? Why are we spending more than any other club? Why does every player we want cost more than other clubs? Liverpool's front three cost less than £30m each. Why can't we find players at that price?

Never thought I'd say it but I was in complete agreement with Souness last night.

We can't find players at that price because the Neymar transfer sent values into hyperspace. Those 3 luckily for Scouserpool happened just before that. They then got a double whammy with the Coutinho money! We on the other hand cocked up on coaches, the 1st being letting Moyes got about two months too early. We Woudl have got Klopp. Fans & Woody

 

[red thru&thru]

I can understand why so many are a little annoyed about Neville not saying Ole is out of his depth. Others have also said he never really does that. But I guess he's not alone in this, as even Keane said Ole needs time.

But why are people not talking about his other point in regards to Ed and the board? He asked a very valid question, who is telling the managers, the like of Jose, who they can and cannot sign? Who is in charge of this at the club?

Lvg has said United is not a football club. Jose has said he never got backed. Who is calling the shots at United?

 

[Inigo Montoya]

So am I.He’s so fecking annoying.

Hey, no one forces you to listen to pundits

I don't watch the game with the Sky/BT commentary. Just opinions

 

[Inigo Montoya]

We can all agree on that for sure, but we are where we are and the board not only hires the managers it also seems to have a say in the players we acquire. Replacing Ole with someone else won´t help at all.
The structure and backroom staff to handle the constant cutting and changing isn´t there. But Ole will get the boot that much we all know.



That has little to do with Ole really, name me one manager who has come in since Fergie left who made us play decent enough football? Things got so bad under Mourinho people were asking for LVG to come back!
This goes way further back than Ole to be fair. Getting Ole to finish the season and hiring Ole permanently are two totally different things. But I like many felt he should get the job due to his unbelievable run after his appointment. But if the club had any ideas how to move forward that wouldn´t have been the case at all, as they would have worked on getting the best man out there to come in.

Poch was!

Would we have him now?

 

[Reapersoul20]

Well I must be a complete and total idiot then. Changing the nationality of players you spend boatloads of cash on is not changing a direction. Renewing contract of 'deadwood' then struggling to sell them is not changing a direction.

Cheap excuse for a cheap excuse of a manager.

Are you a troll?