adexkola
Doesn't understand sportswashing.
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2008
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Ugh you're ruining it!!Sarcasm or?
Ugh you're ruining it!!Sarcasm or?
Ugh you're ruining it!!
Totally agreed.Seriously? What a load of rubbish! Neville criticised Pogba, that was it. He didn't racially abuse him, didn't ask others too. Should he not criticise him, or any other black players, in future for fear a bunch of morons on twitter will start racially abusing them? Idiotic.
Check one of all-time classic threads on the Caf on left-footed penalty takers. One of the funniest threads you'll read.When it comes to penalties, left footed players are naturally worse.
I'm not sure anyone has accused Neville of being a racist or in any way created racists overnight with his rants. However, he did get over emotional and used some words as if Pogba had committed treason. He needs to chill and not shoot off his mouth without knowing the facts. He had to change tact once Ole was interviewed.Totally agreed.
Gary Neville criticised Pogba, and Pogba fanboys are now deflecting by disingenuously conflating with racist tweets do defend their man. Absolutely crazy this conflation has been invented by Pogba fanboys.
In my opinion, Gary Neville is one of the most decent, conscientious and upstanding people in the footballing community, and has zero racist tendencies or behaviours whatsoever. Else, it would have been detected during his 30 years in the public sphere.
Jesus weptTotally agreed.
Gary Neville criticised Pogba, and Pogba fanboys are now deflecting by disingenuously conflating with racist tweets do defend their man. Absolutely crazy this conflation has been invented by Pogba fanboys.
In my opinion, Gary Neville is one of the most decent, conscientious and upstanding people in the footballing community, and has zero racist tendencies or behaviours whatsoever. Else, it would have been detected during his 30 years in the public sphere.
I'm not sure anyone has accused Neville of being a racist or in any way created racists overnight with his rants. However, he did get over emotional and used some words as if Pogba had committed treason. He needs to chill and not shoot off his mouth without knowing the facts. He had to change tact once Ole was interviewed.
I've been mostly on that thread all day and have posted numerous times. If anyone had accused Neville being a racist we would have had a reported post and the culprit warned.read the other thread!
There are many creating a narrative that racists on the internet are emboldened because of something Gary Neville said. I think that's absurd and a sly accusation towards Neville.I've been mostly on that thread all day and have posted numerous times. If anyone had accused Neville being a racist we would have had a reported post and the culprit warned.
People of importance and a stage do have to be careful about every word when they speak. I'm sure you'll admit Mr Trump and his ilk embolden racists.There are many creating a narrative that racists on the internet are emboldened because of something Gary Neville said. I think that's absurd and a sly accusation towards Neville.
Trump does.People of importance and a stage do have to be careful about every word when they speak. I'm sure you'll admit Mr Trump and his ilk embolden racists.
I'm not saying or even implying Neville is anything like Trump. I'm just saying people of importance and with a stage matters what they say and people get influenced. Words accusing Pogba of treachery do not befit a pundit, especially who's been a United fan and player all his life. This is not even the first time he has been accusing of Pogba and then backtracking.Trump does.
Neville is not Trump, neither in scale, context or personal history. And he has done nothing wrong.
Agreed, we have a horrible fan base at times and the caf really highlights it.The irony of this thread...
People abusing Neville for 20 odd pages on the internet. Then accusing him of creating an atmosphere where it's acceptable to abuse Pogba on the internet.
If that sounds like you, you're part of the problem far more than Neville ever could be.
Criticised him for what exactly?Totally agreed.
Gary Neville criticised Pogba, and Pogba fanboys are now deflecting by disingenuously conflating with racist tweets do defend their man. Absolutely crazy this conflation has been invented by Pogba fanboys.
In my opinion, Gary Neville is one of the most decent, conscientious and upstanding people in the footballing community, and has zero racist tendencies or behaviours whatsoever. Else, it would have been detected during his 30 years in the public sphere.
Then people should accuse Neville of being a crap pundit and a terrible fan, not these craven and sly accusations (others, not you) of enabling and emboldening racists. The racist abuse is disgusting and I know how it feels to receive such. But linking that to Neville is not on.I'm not saying or even implying Neville is anything like Trump. I'm just saying people of importance and with a stage matters what they say and people get influenced. Words accusing Pogba of treachery do not befit a pundit, especially who's been a United fan and player all his life. This is not even the first time he has been accusing of Pogba and then backtracking.
I'm no Pogba fanboy. If he leaves tomorrow I'll not wink. However, he is very important to the club being our best player and fans such as Neville should be defending him rather than throwing him under the bus at every opportunity. This just trying to appease the club opponents trying to prove how he is such a balanced and objective pundit.
Yesterdays criticism was about taking the penalty off Rashford. Didn't hear much else mentioned.Criticised him for what exactly?
The only thing he had to criticise him about would be not scoring a penalty. Which in itself is ridiculous, nobody gets criticised for that, especially by an ex-pro, unless again they want to make some point about a ‘silly run-up’ (here, ‘silly’ in modern football is anything that isn’t from my background and wasn’t seen under Fergie or Shankly - see ‘silly’ dancing, haircuts, jewellery etc).
Beyond that, he had no justifiable reason to be criticising Pogba at all, yet he found a way to.
Further proof of Nevs severe twattery with regards to the penalty situation.Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
You must have lost your mind. ‘The onus is on his to prove he is worthy of our support’ all footballing criticism has ‘merit’ and he is ‘criticised due to his inabilities’? So how does he earn your support exactly? By ensuring the keeper doesn’t save a pen? His ‘inability’ justifies his constant criticism? This is a player who could walk into most teams in the world.Then people should accuse Neville of being a crap pundit and a terrible fan, not these craven and sly accusations (others, not you) of enabling and emboldening racists. The racist abuse is disgusting and I know how it feels to receive such. But linking that to Neville is not on.
On Pogba, I think the onus is now upon him to prove he is worthy of our support. He is 'thrown under the bus' because of his own behaviours and inabilities. Purely footballing liked criticism has merit, is valid and deserved.
Yesterdays criticism was about taking the penalty off Rashford. Didn't hear much else mentioned.
Spot on!The reality of the situation is this:
(i) Every club should have a designated penalty taker, and claiming that if someone earns a penalty then they should get to take it is ridiculous. It might be a luxury for a team that are miles ahead in a game, or absolutely flying generally, neither of which applies to United.
In the 90s, when Southampton or Newcastle were awarded a penalty, Shearer didn't allow David Ginola to take one because he'd earned it and has a big ego, and Le Tissier didn't let Francis Benali have a go because he's his mate. Shearer and Le Tissier took every penalty because they among the best penalty takers ever, and very reliable. You don't even allow anything other than your best free-kick takers to take free-kicks, and there is a far, far reduced chance of a goal in that situation, so you certainly don't muck about with penalties, which can be absolutely decisive.
(ii) That's leaving aside how weak it now makes Solksjaer look when he now has to pretend that this was all planned before the game. Yeah, we're going to have two designated penalty takers, and then let them decide on the pitch who wants to take it. That makes perfect sense. According to Solskjaer, it's good that Pogba took the penalty because he wanted to take it. Well, what happens if Rashford wants to take it as well? Which he probably did. What Solskjaer said in the post-match interview is specious, at best, the obvious reason being that he couldn't say that Pogba had effectively overruled him on the field of play, simply because he felt like it.
(iii) It's hard to say exactly what happened on the field of play, but it certainly seems that Pogba just decided that he was going to take the penalty, and that Rashford had been expecting to take it. It certainly didn't seem that it was definitely known that Pogba would be taking penalties. And, anyway, what sort of team swaps its penalty takers from one game to the next? Why would you take Rashford off penalties when he scored in the previous game? What sense does it make to have two penalty takers, when both of them are likely to be on the field when you're awarded a penalty? Are you going to have an on-field debate every time that you have a penalty?
It's pretty obvious that Rashford was the designated penalty taker, which is normal practice for every club to have one, and that Pogba simply overruled him because he thinks he's the big star, and then missed. I'm not a United fan, it's just obviously the case. If it's not the case, it's simply preposterous for a team to have two penalty takers, for neither of them to have seniority, and for them to potentially be in a position of debating before every penalty who will take it, depending on who 'feels like it'.
Spot on again!Here are some of the issues with what Solskjaer has suggested (which seems to be an obvious lie, to me, anyway):
- Both players could be 'feeling confident', in which case how do you decide who takes it?
- Neither player could be 'feeling confident', in which case how you decide who takes it?
- What happens if both players say, as Solskajer said, "this is mine"?
- You can't measure confidence as it's an abstract concept that means different things to different people, and no individual can ever know how confident another person is feeling, so it's not possible to determine who's the most confident. Not that this would be a usual procedure for determining who takes a penalty anyway.
- What happens when you get an important penalty at a critical time in a big game? Are you going to have some debate over who takes it?
- Doesn't the whole concept of deciding who is the most confident, and then allowing them to take penalties, just instil a sense of uncertainty in the team and individual players?
- If taking penalties is decided by 'confidence' then why not decide other roles in the team, particularly related to set-pieces, by confidence? Why have the manager decide anything, why not just send the players out and let them sort things out on the field of play via ongoing debate?
- What does it say about the way that a team operates if you allow players to abdicate responsibility every time that they feel that they're slightly underperforming? How are such players going to deal with more difficult obstacles and challenges, if they can't even perform what should be their duty on the field of play? As a manager, you're supposed to instil confidence in players and encourage them to take responsibility. It's one of the most fundamental things that you're supposed to achieve.
- Fundamentally, shouldn't the manager simply make such decisions, and the players abide by them?
Ive seen you and some other voice this sentiment so i'll reply here for that. People's opinions aren't truly their own opinions, brought about through their own unadulterated volition. Their opinions are a concoction of opinions they hear/see/witness over and over again in their environment. A child doesn't have an opinion on something until the environment conditions the child into having one.There are many creating a narrative that racists on the internet are emboldened because of something Gary Neville said. I think that's absurd and a sly accusation towards Neville.
Completely agree.I'm not saying or even implying Neville is anything like Trump. I'm just saying people of importance and with a stage matters what they say and people get influenced. Words accusing Pogba of treachery do not befit a pundit, especially who's been a United fan and player all his life. This is not even the first time he has been accusing of Pogba and then backtracking.
I'm no Pogba fanboy. If he leaves tomorrow I'll not wink. However, he is very important to the club being our best player and fans such as Neville should be defending him rather than throwing him under the bus at every opportunity. This just trying to appease the club opponents trying to prove how he is such a balanced and objective pundit.
If you don't have a designated penalty taker, and, as Solskjaer suggested, leave it to the players to decide based on whether or not they 'feel confident' then it (a) smacks of weak management, (b) leaves you open to looking completely ridiculous, as indeed United now look for having allowed Pogba to take this penalty for absolutely no good reason.
In my opinion, Pogba pushing himself to the front of the queue, when Rashford was clearly expecting to take it as he'd taken the ball, and also there was obviously some discussion taking place between himself, Pogba and James, was a selfish act. It wasn't for the good of the team, quite obviously. If he was concerned about the good of the team then he'd simply have allowed the person who scored last week to take it.
Neville may have been a bit strong, but the essence of what he was saying was correct, and has been echoed by virtually everyone that I've seen commenting outside of this forum. It's only on this forum where we have to pretend that it's normal for players to have an ongoing debate on penalty taking based on who feels the most confident.
Furthermore, Neville said exactly the same thing about Baines and Mirallas some years ago, as he pointed out himself, when exactly the same thing happened, with exactly the same result.
And if United continue with this absurd policy of letting players take penalties because they've earned them, or because they feel confident, or because they've debated it on the field of play, then they will continue to make themselves and Solskjaer look ridiculous.
You do know that Rashford after the Chelsea match said there are 4-5 penalty takers right? Why are you trying to make it seem like Pogba was out of line and Ole was simply covering for him? If that were true, why on earth would Rashford have said what he said a week before this whole drama ensued?The reality of the situation is this:
It's pretty obvious that Rashford was the designated penalty taker, which is normal practice for every club to have one, and that Pogba simply overruled him because he thinks he's the big star, and then missed. I'm not a United fan, it's just obviously the case. If it's not the case, it's simply preposterous for a team to have two penalty takers, for neither of them to have seniority, and for them to potentially be in a position of debating before every penalty who will take it, depending on who 'feels like it'.
It's all on twitter as far as I know and not here. But because people talked about it here, some people think posters are accusing him of being racist. It's ridiculous.I've been mostly on that thread all day and have posted numerous times. If anyone had accused Neville being a racist we would have had a reported post and the culprit warned.
I have 2 words for you- Ron AtkinsonJesus wept
Just to explain to you, the reason that no-one in the media highlighted this is because it was assumed that Rashford would be taking penalties from then on, and that he'd diplomatically said this in order to protect Pogba, who doesn't have a great record with penalties, and had therefore been taken off them. It was also assumed that if United were awarded a penalty in future games that Rashford would take them, if he was on the field of play. And it was further assumed that there wouldn't be an ongoing on-field debate over who would take every penalty from then on.Where he wanted to take the penalty because he earned it, obviously neither the media nor you saw any problem with it.
Actually, no it wasn't. Rashford straight after the Chelsea game said "there is no set penalty taker, it's just whoever wants it and feels confident at the time, it can be either me or Paul".Just to explain to you, the reason that no-one in the media highlighted this is because it was assumed that Rashford would be taking penalties from then on, and that he'd diplomatically said this in order to protect Pogba, who doesn't have a great record with penalties, and had therefore been taken off them. It was also assumed that if United were awarded a penalty in future games that Rashford would take them, if he was on the field of play. And it was further assumed that there wouldn't be an ongoing on-field debate over who would take every penalty from then on.
That's why it's being highlighted now because Pogba taking the ball from Rashford and demanding to take the penalty, which he did, was a selfish act, cost the team two points, made absolutely no sense, and forced Solskjaer to give an absurd explanation for why it had happened to the media, an explanation that makes him look weak and ridiculous. I haven't seen a single person commenting in the media who has said anything else. This thread is about Neville, but Carragher said exactly the same thing, as did everyone else commenting, as did many, and I would say the vast majority of, United fans.
It's only weird apologists for Paul Pogba who think and say otherwise. And the criticism of Pogba has nothing to do with an 'agenda'. This is just a puerile argument. Neville already made similarly strong criticisms of Mirallas when he did the same thing with Leighton Baines. Did he have some sort of 'agenda' against a nondescript Belgian winger who played for Everton? No, he just knows that it's unprofessional and stupid for Pogba to decide that he fancies taking a penalty because he's confident, and he knows it's weak management to allow this to happen, and he knows that it makes the team look ridiculous. And everyone should know that it cost United two points that they can ill afford to concede.
Frankly, it's weird that some people are so enamoured with Paul Pogba, for some bizarre reason, that they wish to pretend that having an ongoing on-field debate on who feels like taking a penalty every time that you're awarded one, in a struggling team that desperately needs to improve, is normal. Or even desirable!
Just to explain to you, the reason that no-one in the media highlighted this is because it was assumed that Rashford would be taking penalties from then on, and that he'd diplomatically said this in order to protect Pogba, who doesn't have a great record with penalties, and had therefore been taken off them. It was also assumed that if United were awarded a penalty in future games that Rashford would take them, if he was on the field of play. And it was further assumed that there wouldn't be an ongoing on-field debate over who would take every penalty from then on.
That's why it's being highlighted now because Pogba taking the ball from Rashford and demanding to take the penalty, which he did, was a selfish act, cost the team two points, made absolutely no sense, and forced Solskjaer to give an absurd explanation for why it had happened to the media, an explanation that makes him look weak and ridiculous. I haven't seen a single person commenting in the media who has said anything else. This thread is about Neville, but Carragher said exactly the same thing, as did everyone else commenting, as did many, and I would say the vast majority of, United fans.
It's only weird apologists for Paul Pogba who think and say otherwise. And the criticism of Pogba has nothing to do with an 'agenda'. This is just a puerile argument. Neville already made similarly strong criticisms of Mirallas when he did the same thing with Leighton Baines. Did he have some sort of 'agenda' against a nondescript Belgian winger who played for Everton? No, he just knows that it's unprofessional and stupid for Pogba to decide that he fancies taking a penalty because he's confident, and he knows it's weak management to allow this to happen, and he knows that it makes the team look ridiculous. And everyone should know that it cost United two points that they can ill afford to concede.
Frankly, it's weird that some people are so enamoured with Paul Pogba, for some bizarre reason, that they wish to pretend that having an ongoing on-field debate on who feels like taking a penalty every time that you're awarded one, in a struggling team that desperately needs to improve, is normal. Or even desirable!
You write a big essay without ever actually addressing the original point. Pogba is the designated penalty taker at Man Utd, he was for the entirety of last season. Just because a season starts fresh, that does not mean team changes set-piece takers unless they have signed a specialist one at that. Your entire argument rests on assumptions which you made on basis of one week of events which unfolded versus Chelsea. This is despite, me clearly breaking it down to you, that Pogba is the one who takes penalties at Man Utd, and if anyone was selfish, it was Rashford, who on the occasion, stepped up to take the penalty after having a brief discussion with designated taker in Pogba. His words post match weren't 'diplomatic' to 'protect' Pogba, this is again you conjuring a narrative out of your arse to paint Pogba in poor light which @In Rainbows has also highlighted.Just to explain to you, the reason that no-one in the media highlighted this is because it was assumed that Rashford would be taking penalties from then on, and that he'd diplomatically said this in order to protect Pogba, who doesn't have a great record with penalties, and had therefore been taken off them. It was also assumed that if United were awarded a penalty in future games that Rashford would take them, if he was on the field of play. And it was further assumed that there wouldn't be an ongoing on-field debate over who would take every penalty from then on.
Once again, you're in the wrong. Solksjaer gave this 'absurd explanation' last week itself, that we have number of penalty takers in the squad who'll figure it out amongst themselves on pitch. He was simply playing along with what Rashford said in the media. But you clearly know this, others have pointed that to you including @Rado_N couple of pages back whom you failed to respond to.That's why it's being highlighted now because Pogba taking the ball from Rashford and demanding to take the penalty, which he did, was a selfish act, cost the team two points, made absolutely no sense, and forced Solskjaer to give an absurd explanation for why it had happened to the media, an explanation that makes him look weak and ridiculous. I haven't seen a single person commenting in the media who has said anything else. This thread is about Neville, but Carragher said exactly the same thing, as did everyone else commenting, as did many, and I would say the vast majority of, United fans.
Of course, you have an agenda. That's the reason why I quoted the posts where in midst of this take you wrote about Pogba being 'selfish', 'being the big star'. Even in your imaginary dressing down which Ole should've given to Pogba, has Ole calling him out on 'how much you want to be the centre of attention'. Do no take us for idiots, there's plenty in your post which me and many others agree with such as Solksajers' weak management but if you're going to slide in snide remarks about a player just because you don't like him then you're going to be called out on your bullshit, painting me and others as 'weird apologists' won't change that.It's only weird apologists for Paul Pogba who think and say otherwise. And the criticism of Pogba has nothing to do with an 'agenda'. This is just a puerile argument. Neville already made similarly strong criticisms of Mirallas when he did the same thing with Leighton Baines. Did he have some sort of 'agenda' against a nondescript Belgian winger who played for Everton? No, he just knows that it's unprofessional and stupid for Pogba to decide that he fancies taking a penalty because he's confident, and he knows it's weak management to allow this to happen, and he knows that it makes the team look ridiculous. And everyone should know that it cost United two points that they can ill afford to concede.
No one has ever said that it's a desirable scenario, like any strong manager he should've cleared it up post-match. But, given this has been blown out of proportion, I expect it to be cleared by the weekend anyway.Frankly, it's weird that some people are so enamoured with Paul Pogba, for some bizarre reason, that they wish to pretend that having an ongoing on-field debate on who feels like taking a penalty every time that you're awarded one, in a struggling team that desperately needs to improve, is normal. Or even desirable!
Well put.So many absurd assumptions you’re portraying here to support your opinion. Your whole argument is based on assumptions.
You assumed, despite conversation at the Chelsea game on the pitch between Rashford and pogba that it had already been decided Rashford was the penalty taker. You assume that there was an absurd charade made up by the players and managers to protect Pogba, you assumed everybody knew that? You assumed Rashfords version of events is a lie so that you can then assume that actually it’s Pogba who’s demanded to take a penalty he had no right to take....despite the conversation between the same two players as the Chelsea game being very short and agreeable.
I mean if I were a courtroom judge I’d laugh you out of the building.
Grow up.One thing for certain. I NEVER want Gary Neville as manager or assistant at Man Utd and if he runs for the roles, we should do a fan poll and vote no.
This is nonsense.When it comes to penalties, left footed players are naturally worse.