German football is turd

B. Munich

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Obviously the CL is different, knock out competitions are not the same as a league, I am sure you are aware of that, or you chose to ignore it because the German league is so noncompetitive you don't care about it.

Which clubs are after Sule? None from United, Chelsea, Liverpool, City, Leicester want him.

Its clear to see the defending from Bundesliga clubs is quite poor, Leipzig who have the best defensive record, look like they do not know how to defend when they face English clubs. United and Liverpool mocked their defence.
Again the CL is the only competition where Bundesliga and EPL clubs face off. How else do you want to compare the strength?
Quoting single games doesn't prove anything. Leipzig had actually the better chances against Liverpool and lost due to 2 individual blunders. So did Liverpool just a couple of days before against Leicester and a week earlier against Man City. So what is the point?

Chelsea is heavily linked with Suele, Liverpool a even your team are allegedly also interested in him.
 

Cast5

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It should rather read....if United had a halfway capable management they would have spend the roughly 1 billion Euro over the last 8 years more wisely, hired coaches that actually suit the strength of your players and had developed a clear ay to play football. Then I am sure Man United would have a few trophies more.

The CL is the only competition where German teams face English teams. Or do you want to extend this to the national teams? Doesn't look that good for you guys there either. :angel:

Why are there Bundesliga fans on a Manchester United forum getting offended by a German professional player saying that he’s found it difficult in the premier league? If an Ex-United player found it difficult in the Bundesliga it wouldn’t bother me in the slightest, why are fans of teams in other leagues so defensive?

I think when people say the PL is the best league in the world they don’t mean that Burnley would beat Bayern every week they mean the Premier League is extremely competitive and exciting to watch. That’s it. People aren’t saying that Premier league teams are the best in the world.

I couldn’t imagine being on a Bayern Munich forum defending Liverpool because they got beat by a German club in the Champions league. It’s very strange, I want every PL team to get walloped by foreign opposition every time they play. Couldn’t imagine wanting a PL team to win to prove PL superiority, very odd.

Imagine ‘choosing’ to support Bayern Munich a very successful team, who you have no real connection to other than ‘they win stuff in Germany’ to then make an account on another teams forum to shit on the way they’re run and how bad their team is and how bad the league they play in is.

Might choose to be a Juventus fan today and go on the Chelsea forum and tell them why they aren’t top of the league. How weird would I have to be?
 
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Harry Harries

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Common you can do better than this!
In the same time your club signed Maguire, AWB, Shaw, Mata, Matic, Schneiderlein, Lukaku and Sanchez from other Premier League clubs.
That some players were overpriced and didn't perform, again it's your mediocre management team to blame for.
It's a slightly different situation in the EPL than it is in the Bundesliga, though. United used to have the pick of the bunch (a lot like Bayern do now) but added competition in terms of financing and the departure of Fergie has scaled back United's ability to dominate its domestic market. We'd all love it if we still had a Bayern-equivalent situation here, make no mistake.
 

Terminator

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BuLi fans are the funniest. Some are so defensive and touchy. :lol:

Who cares its just football, watch what you
like and realize you are on the forum of an English team in the PL.
 
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romufc

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Again the CL is the only competition where Bundesliga and EPL clubs face off. How else do you want to compare the strength?
Quoting single games doesn't prove anything. Leipzig had actually the better chances against Liverpool and lost due to 2 individual blunders. So did Liverpool just a couple of days before against Leicester and a week earlier against Man City. So what is the point?

Chelsea is heavily linked with Suele, Liverpool a even your team are allegedly also interested in him.
Because BL and PL play in the Cl every match week right?

The difference is no one is saying Liverpool or Manutd have a good defence, Bundesliga fans say Leipzig have the best defence. I am not sure if you watched the game, Liverpool opened up Leipzig time and time again. What the header of the post is better chance?

That is pure heresay about Chelsea and Liverpool linked with Sule. Manutd are not looking at Sule, maybe you need better sources.
 

Zehner

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Bundesliga teams have some of the most naive defending I have ever seen from a top league. Acres of space, defenders that don't close down players, it's very very poor. This is just based on what I see from the league. They need better managers and things will climb soon, because there is talent there.
EPL >> Bundesliga

Bundesliga managers >> EPL managers (except former Bundesliga managers)
 

Zehner

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Why are there Bundesliga fans on a Manchester United forum getting offended by a German professional player saying that he’s found it difficult in the premier league? If an Ex-United player found it difficult in the Bundesliga it wouldn’t bother me in the slightest, why are fans of teams in other leagues so defensive?

I think when people say the PL is the best league in the world they don’t mean that Burnley would beat Bayern every week they mean the Premier League is extremely competitive and exciting to watch. That’s it. People aren’t saying that Premier league teams are the best in the world.

I couldn’t imagine being on a Bayern Munich forum defending Liverpool because they got beat by a German club in the Champions league. It’s very strange, I want every PL team to get walloped by foreign opposition every time they play. Couldn’t imagine wanting a PL team to win to prove PL superiority, very odd.

Imagine ‘choosing’ to support Bayern Munich a very successful team, who you have no real connection to other than ‘they win stuff in Germany’ to then make an account on another teams forum to shit on the way they’re run and how bad their team is and how bad the league they play in is.

Might choose to be a Juventus fan today and go on the Chelsea forum and tell them why they aren’t top of the league. How weird would I have to be?
You think we joined since this is a United forum? :lol: I didn't care one bit which club this forum belongs to. Could've been a Burnley board and I would still have joined.

Close the general football section and you are rid of us in no time. The reason so many of us are here is because this forum is the closest thing to a international football forum there is. Some of the things discussed in here can't be discussed in any other forum I know, German or English. Direct me towards a 'neutral' football forum with so many users and you don't have to worry about this defensive Bundesliga fan anymore. You know, it's not like I enjoy United fans saying the weirdest stuff you can think of and answering 'this is a United forum, leave if you don't like our biases' when you point out they're objectively wrong.

For many local users in here, partizanship is more important than facts, that's the real reason for all the dicscussions with Bundesliga fans. Simple as that.
 

hasanejaz88

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You think we joined since this is a United forum? :lol: I didn't care one bit which club this forum belongs to. Could've been a Burnley board and I would still have joined.

Close the general football section and you are rid of us in no time. The reason so many of us are here is because this forum is the closest thing to a international football forum there is. Some of the things discussed in here can't be discussed in any other forum I know, German or English. Direct me towards a 'neutral' football forum with so many users and you don't have to worry about this defensive Bundesliga fan anymore. You know, it's not like I enjoy United fans saying the weirdest stuff you can think of and answering 'this is a United forum, leave if you don't like our biases' when you point out they're objectively wrong.

For many local users in here, partizanship is more important than facts, that's the real reason for all the dicscussions with Bundesliga fans. Simple as that.
Fbtz was so good :( Orkut as well, fans of every club going at each other :lol:
 

manc exile

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Is that just a feeling or do you have actually any evidence for your case?
german league
Munich have won the last 8
only once by less than 10 points
average winning margin is 14 points
median winning margin is 17 points
thats a walk in the park

Ligue 1 last 8 years
PSG have won 7 out of 8
3 times less than 10 point winning margin
average winning margin 14 points
median winning margin 12 points
thats a walk in the park

La liga
Barca have won 5 out of 8 (2 other champions)
5 times less than 10 point winning margin
average winning margin 7 points
median winning margin 4 points
not a walk in the park

For comparison premier league last 8 years
5 different champions
4 times less than 10 points
average winning margin 9
median winning margin 9
not a walk in the park


For completeness
serie a last 8 years
juve have won all 8
5 times less than 10 point winning margin
average winning margin 8
median winning margin 9
not a walk in the park
 
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Cast5

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You think we joined since this is a United forum? :lol: I didn't care one bit which club this forum belongs to. Could've been a Burnley board and I would still have joined.

Close the general football section and you are rid of us in no time. The reason so many of us are here is because this forum is the closest thing to a international football forum there is. Some of the things discussed in here can't be discussed in any other forum I know, German or English. Direct me towards a 'neutral' football forum with so many users and you don't have to worry about this defensive Bundesliga fan anymore. You know, it's not like I enjoy United fans saying the weirdest stuff you can think of and answering 'this is a United forum, leave if you don't like our biases' when you point out they're objectively wrong.

For many local users in here, partizanship is more important than facts, that's the real reason for all the dicscussions with Bundesliga fans. Simple as that.
Where did I say you joined because it’s a United forum?

I wasn’t even replying to you btw, come back when you’ve addressed the points I actually made. I’ll give you a valid response then. It’ll take some time because I need to tell Barnsley fans on their forum why Juventus is so well run, Also need to tell some professional footballers what they find difficult.
 

Harry Harries

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You think we joined since this is a United forum? :lol: I didn't care one bit which club this forum belongs to. Could've been a Burnley board and I would still have joined.

Close the general football section and you are rid of us in no time. The reason so many of us are here is because this forum is the closest thing to a international football forum there is. Some of the things discussed in here can't be discussed in any other forum I know, German or English. Direct me towards a 'neutral' football forum with so many users and you don't have to worry about this defensive Bundesliga fan anymore. You know, it's not like I enjoy United fans saying the weirdest stuff you can think of and answering 'this is a United forum, leave if you don't like our biases' when you point out they're objectively wrong.

For many local users in here, partizanship is more important than facts, that's the real reason for all the dicscussions with Bundesliga fans. Simple as that.
That's a bit cocksure of you, and not entirely fair. Both sets of fans are capable of spouting nonsense so let's not go the route of presuming one set of fans allows bias to influence their opinions more than others!

Having opposition fans on the caf is great, so I hope asinine posts like 'Why are you on here' doesn't dissuade non-United supporters from posting. It wouldn't be the same without the discussion and range of opinions.
 

AkaAkuma

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german league
Munich have won the last 8
only once by less than 10 points
average winning margin is 14 points
median winning margin is 17 points
thats a walk in the park

Ligue 1 last 8 years
PSG have won 7 out of 8
3 times less than 10 point winning margin
average winning margin 14 points
median winning margin 12 points
thats a walk in the park

For comparison premier league last 8 years
5 different champions
4 times less than 10 points
average winning margin 9
median winning margin 9
Thanks for the info, youve saved me the effort.
 

Zehner

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Where did I say you joined because it’s a United forum?

I wasn’t even replying to you btw, come back when you’ve addressed the points I actually made. I’ll give you a valid response then. It’ll take some time because I need to tell Barnsley fans on their forum why Juventus is so well run, Also need to tell some professional footballers what they find difficult.
Oh no, I fear I'll have miss out on this incredible experience then. I'm sure you have so many unique, insightful and knowledgeable thoughts to share and now we'll never hear them. Sad day for the readers of this forum. What am I saying, for humanity of course. We don't deserve you.

That's a bit cocksure of you, and not entirely fair. Both sets of fans are capable of spouting nonsense so let's not go the route of presuming one set of fans allows bias to influence their opinions more than others!

Having opposition fans on the caf is great, so I hope asinine posts like 'Why are you on here' doesn't dissuade non-United supporters from posting. It wouldn't be the same without the discussion and range of opinions.
Come on, I really rate your posts, and we are all biased to at least some degree but you can impossibly compare the levels those biases manifest on one side with those on the other end. There's not even a single Bundesliga club supporter who's denying it's a one horse league, who's denying the EPL is the better, who's claiming Dortmund is in the same ball park as United etc. Discussions always emerge because some United supporter discredited the league fully, usually because he's butthurt Dortmund didn't sell Sancho in the summer, and then mock the ones objecting because they defended the league again.

Regarding the bolded, it's not really the "why are you on here" posts but all the stuff combined. This forum isn't much fun anymore for me, there are very few quality discussions that seem interesting to me and much more superficial stuff which makes you cringe or face palm than there used to be. Right now the current events section is the best of the forum to me and that's quite telling. I don't think German posters will stay around for much longer in this climate, especially the Dortmund fans have already almost completely disappeared. Not everybody sees stuff like you, many people in here want their echo chamber and I think they'll get it eventually.
 

Cast5

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Oh no, I fear I'll have miss out on this incredible experience then. I'm sure you have so many unique, insightful and knowledgeable thoughts to share and now we'll never hear them. Sad day for the readers of this forum. What am I saying, for humanity of course. We don't deserve you
What a strange reply to someone saying ‘I’ll give you valid response’ someone’s got under your skin I think.

Can you tell me if I found my new job harder than my old one please? If I do find it harder will you be offended? :lol:
 

Zehner

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What a strange reply to someone saying ‘I’ll give you valid response’ someone’s got under your skin I think.

Can you tell me if I found my new job harder than my old one please? If I do find it harder will you be offended? :lol:
I'll give you a valid response when you answered my points.
 

cyberman

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EPL >> Bundesliga

Bundesliga managers >> EPL managers (except former Bundesliga managers)
When a manager leaves Germany, he isnt a Bundesliga manager anymore ffs!
Surely cherry picking the best Bundesliga coaches means England has an advantage there? Maybe the exodus explains why the defending is so shit over there. The quality has lessened.
 

B. Munich

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Why are there Bundesliga fans on a Manchester United forum getting offended by a German professional player saying that he’s found it difficult in the premier league? If an Ex-United player found it difficult in the Bundesliga it wouldn’t bother me in the slightest, why are fans of teams in other leagues so defensive?

I think when people say the PL is the best league in the world they don’t mean that Burnley would beat Bayern every week they mean the Premier League is extremely competitive and exciting to watch. That’s it. People aren’t saying that Premier league teams are the best in the world.

I couldn’t imagine being on a Bayern Munich forum defending Liverpool because they got beat by a German club in the Champions league. It’s very strange, I want every PL team to get walloped by foreign opposition every time they play. Couldn’t imagine wanting a PL team to win to prove PL superiority, very odd.

Imagine ‘choosing’ to support Bayern Munich a very successful team, who you have no real connection to other than ‘they win stuff in Germany’ to then make an account on another teams forum to shit on the way they’re run and how bad their team is and how bad the league they play in is.

Might choose to be a Juventus fan today and go on the Chelsea forum and tell them why they aren’t top of the league. How weird would I have to be?
I'm not here to shit on your club. This is a thread about German football. If opening just divisive thread you have to expect posters with other opinions hit back. As long as it doesn't get personal all is fine. I lived 15 years in Bangkok and always enjoyed to watch football with Brits. Loved the all the banter.

First I'm not offended about Werner's quotes. I just consider it funny that one players experience is used to discredit another league. @HerrLeinand already proved in his reply that Werner's statements are just nonsense.

As @Zehner said we are here in the football forum and I would never post in match day thread of Man United.
I think it's much interesting to exchange thoughts with fans of different clubs and countries than just celebrate or whinge with your own peers.

There is funny prejudice here on the board about Bayern getting every Bundesliga player they want. It's just not true as many examples like de Bruyne, Havertz or Sané proof.

I think and I'm sure I will get crucified again for it, many in this board are looking for eat reasons why Man United is underperforming for years. Either it's the sugar daddy clubs being able to outspend you, or the irresistible lure of the 2 big Spanish clubs. Bayern neither have the money, nor the attractiveness of the Spanish giants, so you come up with another reason. They can every Bundesliga player they want on the cheap or free.
Man United has the money and the standing to be an elite club. It's poor management that holds your club back.
 

Zehner

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When a manager leaves Germany, he isnt a Bundesliga manager anymore ffs!
Surely cherry picking the best Bundesliga coaches means England has an advantage there? Maybe the exodus explains why the defending is so shit over there. The quality has lessened.
You know, great managers don't just suddenly appear, there is a culture and infrastructure behind it. Klopp, Tuchel, Flick, Nagelsmann, etc. are products of that infrastructure and it keeps on producing. Bundesliga clubs are financially weak in an international comparison so they had to find other ways to compete. Focus on coaching is the way they chose and while some English top clubs have bought that knowledge in themselves, the majority of the league isn't on that level. If you look past the top teams, coaching in the Bundesliga is much more advanced and ambitious.

Of course Klopp and Guardiola as the current top coaches in the world are currently in the EPL, so one could argue that the EPL elite is actually the best coached in the world right now. But I didn't deny that, I just pointed out that those coaches aside the Bundesliga has superior coaches.
 

Harry Harries

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Come on, I really rate your posts, and we are all biased to at least some degree but you can impossibly compare the levels those biases manifest on one side with those on the other end. There's not even a single Bundesliga club supporter who's denying it's a one horse league, who's denying the EPL is the better, who's claiming Dortmund is in the same ball park as United etc. Discussions always emerge because some United supporter discredited the league fully, usually because he's butthurt Dortmund didn't sell Sancho in the summer, and then mock the ones objecting because they defended the league again.

Regarding the bolded, it's not really the "why are you on here" posts but all the stuff combined. This forum isn't much fun anymore for me, there are very few quality discussions that seem interesting to me and much more superficial stuff which makes you cringe or face palm than there used to be. Right now the current events section is the best of the forum to me and that's quite telling. I don't think German posters will stay around for much longer in this climate, especially the Dortmund fans have already almost completely disappeared. Not everybody sees stuff like you, many people in here want their echo chamber and I think they'll get it eventually.
That's quite possible to be fair, I tend to avert my eyes when the slinging of shit begins to start. I'll admit that there does seem to be an unfortunate amount of vitriol at times and like you said often it's all rather cringey. I'm convinced that the toxicity of social media has bled into all corners of the internet and has left us much worse off. Maybe it's compounded by the global feckpie and making people a bit crankier..? Regardless, it'll be a big shame if people are increasingly pushed away from the forum. Hope you stick around for awhile yet.
 

Cast5

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I'll give you a valid response when you answered my points.
You haven’t made any, you started this conversation with me, not addressing anything I said other than ‘You think we joined because it’s a Manchester United forum’ which I responded to by explaining to you that I didn’t say that.

You still won’t answer the question which I’ve asked 3 times - Is it okay if I find my new job more difficult than my old one, and if I do, is that okay with you? :lol:

Feel like I’m talking to Boris Johnson.
 

Classical Mechanic

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I just consider it funny that one players experience is used to discredit another league. @HerrLeinand already proved in his reply that Werner's statements are just nonsense.
The PL is a stronger league than the BL and harder for attackers like Werner in particular. Werner may be projecting his difficulties onto something that isn't strictly true but the point still stands that he's struggling at a higher level.
 

cyberman

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You know, great managers don't just suddenly appear, there is a culture and infrastructure behind it. Klopp, Tuchel, Flick, Nagelsmann, etc. are products of that infrastructure and it keeps on producing. Bundesliga clubs are financially weak in an international comparison so they had to find other ways to compete. Focus on coaching is the way they chose and while some English top clubs have bought that knowledge in themselves, the majority of the league isn't on that level. If you look past the top teams, coaching in the Bundesliga is much more advanced and ambitious.

Of course Klopp and Guardiola as the current top coaches in the world are currently in the EPL, so one could argue that the EPL elite is actually the best coached in the world right now. But I didn't deny that, I just pointed out that those coaches aside the Bundesliga has superior coaches.
But the fact is they have moved to England. That quality has left your league and they are taking their talent to England and enhanced it. From the day they leave they have nothing more to do with the Bundesliga. Even then Tuchel has achieved what exactly? What German elite is even in England apart fron Klopp?
 

C'mon FC

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german league
Munich have won the last 8
only once by less than 10 points
average winning margin is 14 points
median winning margin is 17 points
thats a walk in the park

Ligue 1 last 8 years
PSG have won 7 out of 8
3 times less than 10 point winning margin
average winning margin 14 points
median winning margin 12 points
thats a walk in the park

La liga
Barca have won 5 out of 8 (2 other champions)
5 times less than 10 point winning margin
average winning margin 7 points
median winning margin 4 points
not a walk in the park

For comparison premier league last 8 years
5 different champions
4 times less than 10 points
average winning margin 9
median winning margin 9
not a walk in the park


For completeness
serie a last 8 years
juve have won all 8
5 times less than 10 point winning margin
average winning margin 8
median winning margin 9
not a walk in the park
Thanks for confirming that my idea was correct. La Liga definitly doesn't belong in that listing.
 

Snuffkin

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Just watched those Dortmund highlights from the Shalke game, it was embarassingly amateur, loads of space and time, I could have scored a couple if I'd managed to stay awake.
 

hasanejaz88

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Obviously the CL is different, knock out competitions are not the same as a league, I am sure you are aware of that, or you chose to ignore it because the German league is so noncompetitive you don't care about it.

Which clubs are after Sule? None from United, Chelsea, Liverpool, City, Leicester want him.

Its clear to see the defending from Bundesliga clubs is quite poor, Leipzig who have the best defensive record, look like they do not know how to defend when they face English clubs. United and Liverpool mocked their defence.
The way Sule is going, Bayern don't even want him :lol:
 

Zehner

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You haven’t made any, you started this conversation with me, not addressing anything I said other than ‘You think we joined because it’s a Manchester United forum’ which I responded to by explaining to you that I didn’t say that.

You still won’t answer the question which I’ve asked 3 times - Is it okay if I find my new job more difficult than my old one, and if I do, is that okay with you? :lol:

Feel like I’m talking to Boris Johnson.
First thing we have in common, then.

Just to make it clear: You made multiple points in your post, among them this:

Imagine ‘choosing’ to support Bayern Munich a very successful team, who you have no real connection to other than ‘they win stuff in Germany’ to then make an account on another teams forum to shit on the way they’re run and how bad their team is and how bad the league they play in is.
I addressed this but you keep pointing to a topic I didn't find particularly interesting (Werner's interview).

But since you seem to be so eager to get a reaction to this: As far as I know, Werner claimed that it was harder for him because the players were that fast. I'm not denying that the EPL has a huge emphasis on pace but to me, pace is the most overrated attribute in football. The best team of the league over the last five years, City, isn't a pacey team by any means. Pace should be a means to an end, not a means in itself. On the international stage, the pace of EPL teams didn't pose too much of a challenge for most European top teams. If you ask me, the EPL is a worse league because everybody is obsessed with pace. Most teams would be better off implementing elements of positional football to their game. And they'd be better off with a more modern approach to midfield and counter pressing.


But the fact is they have moved to England. That quality has left your league and they are taking their talent to England and enhanced it. From the day they leave they have nothing more to do with the Bundesliga. Even then Tuchel has achieved what exactly? What German elite is even in England apart fron Klopp?
Man, I specifically excluded the former Bundesliga coaches (Klopp, Tuchel, Guardiola, Hasenhuttl) so what is even your point? Yes, they're coaching in the EPL now and that's why I excluded them. I didn't say the coacheing is better in general, I said it is better if you take those out of the equation. You're addressing a point I didn't even make. I mean, there are multiple posts of mine in recent times in which I specifically said that the EPL elite has developed hugely in terms of coaching and is now probably the best in the world right now. But outside of those, the coaching in the EPL doesn't really impress me to this date. What's so mindboggling about that? Which coach it is who you see outside of Klopp, Guardiola, Tuchel and Hasenhüttl who I forgot?
 

Noot

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EPL >> Bundesliga

Bundesliga managers >> EPL managers (except former Bundesliga managers)
The PL has Pep, Klopp, Tuchel, Ancelotti, Bielsa, Rogers, Hodgson and Moyes.

The BuLi has... erm... Nagelsmann, Bosz and Rose. And Flick, the manager of by far your best club, just spent fifteen years out of management.

By coincidence, a lot of the best managers in the PL have managed in the BuLi in the past. But they're not there anymore, because unless you can land the Bayern job there's no point.
 

Daniel_de_Foe

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If you are using Schalke as a reference point, then you can basically prove everything wrong about the Bundesliga. But Schalke may go down with the least points of any BL team in the history of the league, so it is not really fair.

three points.

The PL team are really defending deep, that’s a very characteristic style of the league. It is not really good ore bad just very typical.

Every PL player is used to this style of defending, so every PL player can defend reasonably well when inviting pressure. In most other leagues, the players can press pretty well, but when a winger is sitting deep, playing full back, that is a recipe for disaster.

The other point:

Pressing is a high risk, high reward strategy. But when it goes wrong it leaves a lot of space open. If you are only watching short summaries of games, you can see the space, but not, what happen before.

Werner is also overrated. Like Klopp, Nagelsmann is using his players to their full capacity. Any other manager might not get the best out of them.
 

Acrobat7

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Haha what? Are you kidding? Lewandowski, Goretzka, Gotze, Hummels, Neuer, Upamencano, that reserve goalkeeper from Shalke also, and that's just in the last couple of years.
Mate, if you want to troll you have to up your game.
You were talking about „all the good German players that Bayern signed on a free“.
And then you list a Pole and 4 other players for which Bayern paid a good amount of money.

Götze, Hummels and Neuer were actually rather expensive.
 

OutlawGER

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The PL is a stronger league than the BL and harder for attackers like Werner in particular. Werner may be projecting his difficulties onto something that isn't strictly true but the point still stands that he's struggling at a higher level.
Tbh i personally expected him to struggle. I was happy that Bayern didn't sign him, even though he basically begged them to do so.

He's just not good enough to play for elite teams. Decent player for 2nd tier clubs.
 

sekularic

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This thread is really grinding on a lot of gears, keep it going guys.
 

GazTheLegend

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EPL >> Bundesliga

Bundesliga managers >> EPL managers (except former Bundesliga managers)
Absolute class post. Very true. I think German football is better coached, managed and run. I think the English league has the better players.

I felt, personally, when Manchester United played Leipzig, you could sort of "feel" that the United players were better individually everywhere on the pitch - I don't think a single Leipzig player would get into the Manchester United team. But as a unit, and tactically, they were so much better than us it was scary. An entire Buli coaching system in charge of clubs like Manchester United might be strong. Well, we've already seen how scary ex Buli coaches can be at Liverpool, Manchester City, and even Southampton. Nagelsmann, Klopp, Hasentutl are so far above the likes of Allardyce, Moyes and Wilder for instance that there's no comparison.
 

Rooney in Paris

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Absolute class post. Very true. I think German football is better coached, managed and run. I think the English league has the better players.

I felt, personally, when Manchester United played Leipzig, you could sort of "feel" that the United players were better individually everywhere on the pitch - I don't think a single Leipzig player would get into the Manchester United team. But as a unit, and tactically, they were so much better than us it was scary. An entire Buli coaching system in charge of clubs like Manchester United might be strong. Well, we've already seen how scary ex Buli coaches can be at Liverpool, Manchester City, and even Southampton. Nagelsmann, Klopp, Hasentutl are so far above the likes of Allardyce, Moyes and Wilder for instance that there's no comparison.
Did you feel the same way during the first game which was a complete tactical shambles, or does that not fit your narrative?
 

ninjaskill

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Again the CL is the only competition where Bundesliga and EPL clubs face off. How else do you want to compare the strength?
Quoting single games doesn't prove anything. Leipzig had actually the better chances against Liverpool and lost due to 2 individual blunders. So did Liverpool just a couple of days before against Leicester and a week earlier against Man City. So what is the point?

Chelsea is heavily linked with Suele, Liverpool a even your team are allegedly also interested in him.
You heard of the Europa league? German teams are awful in it. Only once has a German side made it to the semi finals since 2010, they lost to an English side, which is an awful record. The last German team to win it was 1997, I didn’t expect them to be great in it but that is absolutely terrible for a top league. It’s not even very good teams for a european competition that tend to put them out clubs that have a much smaller budget than bundesliga sides regularly seem to knock them out.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_football_clubs_in_European_competitions
 

Classical Mechanic

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Tbh i personally expected him to struggle. I was happy that Bayern didn't sign him, even though he basically begged them to do so.

He's just not good enough to play for elite teams. Decent player for 2nd tier clubs.
His lack of technique means he struggles against the low block. He needs space. That said, he hasn't been awful, he's probably been more in the range of average but I think Chelsea were hoping for something a fair bit better than that.
 

Zehner

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Absolute class post. Very true. I think German football is better coached, managed and run. I think the English league has the better players.

I felt, personally, when Manchester United played Leipzig, you could sort of "feel" that the United players were better individually everywhere on the pitch - I don't think a single Leipzig player would get into the Manchester United team. But as a unit, and tactically, they were so much better than us it was scary. An entire Buli coaching system in charge of clubs like Manchester United might be strong. Well, we've already seen how scary ex Buli coaches can be at Liverpool, Manchester City, and even Southampton. Nagelsmann, Klopp, Hasentutl are so far above the likes of Allardyce, Moyes and Wilder for instance that there's no comparison.
I think you can't say German football is better run in general since I believe a huge aspect is also the generating of revenues and the EPL blows the Bundesliga out of the water in this discipline. Bundesliga clubs on the other hand are better at utilizing the budget they have but they themselves are also responsible that it is that much smaller.

That being said, Germany and Austria/Switzerland for that matter, too, produce lots of very promising coaches out of necessity. In general this thinking that the unit is more important than individuals is deeply ingrained in German football culture (and I think this is also the reason we produce so few generational talents).

The EPL is now profiting from it I believe since they just bought that innovation in. In general I enjoy that some of the coaches who grew in the Bundesliga can now operate on such budgets. Somr of the people in here make it hard to enjoy the EPL, though.
 

Zehner

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His lack of technique means he struggles against the low block. He needs space. That said, he hasn't been awful, he's probably been more in the range of average but I think Chelsea were hoping for something a fair bit better than that.
He's not that bad technically. Werner usually has his moments of technical brillance, too,although he didn't show too many for Chelsea to be fair.

Thing with Werner is that he's used to being the fastest player on tge pitch and since the average pace in the EPL seems to be higher, he can't simply outrun everybody any longer, like a physically superior youth player entering senior level. Now the question is if he can add other tools to his repertoire. I'm positive about that, though, since Tuchel has much in common with Nagelsmann who utilized Werner very well.
 

fck

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Bundesliga Reputation Protection Alliance members to come out in masses in 3..2..1..
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They probably make them in the same factory. It's hilarious how defensive they all get, as if this isn't a forum about an English team from the English Premier League. :lol:
I'm a proud member of the Bundesliga Defence Alliance which was established in the Sancho Saga. Didn't know there was also a different faction.
But joking aside if a Real Madrid supporter would create a "The PL is garbage" thread you think there wouldn't be scores of people getting "defensive"?
Let's not kid ourselves here.
Btw. PL > Bundesliga nobody is arguing that but calling the BL "turd" is objectively BS.
 

Classical Mechanic

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He's not that bad technically. Werner usually has his moments of technical brillance, too,although he didn't show too many for Chelsea to be fair.

Thing with Werner is that he's used to being the fastest player on tge pitch and since the average pace in the EPL seems to be higher, he can't simply outrun everybody any longer, like a physically superior youth player entering senior level. Now the question is if he can add other tools to his repertoire. I'm positive about that, though, since Tuchel has much in common with Nagelsmann who utilized Werner very well.
I think for a lot of players it's not about what their highest technical level is, it's about the consistency of that level. You could compare him to Lukaku who himself is capable of some high level technique but far too often (compared to other top players) his touch is heavy and/or terrible. Rooney was another player who on a bad day couldn't even trap a bag of sand.

I think the Premier League is unforgiving too, so many teams make games into difficult wars of attrition if you're a player, or striker especially, with fragile confidence it's harder to build that confidence up. That's why you get technically gifted players like Jahanbakhsh who can boss it in Holland but can't even put a run of two games together in the PL.
 

giorno

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Bundesliga teams have some of the most naive defending I have ever seen from a top league. Acres of space, defenders that don't close down players, it's very very poor. This is just based on what I see from the league. They need better managers and things will climb soon, because there is talent there.
Bundesliga arguably has the best managers in the world, on average. The current dominant playing styles and major tactical evolutions come from there

You talk about how poor they are at defending but ignore how good they are at attacking - much better on average than anywhere else

It's just that they have the least tactical variety among the top leagues - everyone presses high and tries to force quick transitions. Which is why it's the fastest paced league, with games often turning into up and down transition fests, and the reason for the poor defending

Easier overall for a truly great team like Bayern, compared to other leagues, but at the same time for merely very good team there's a higher chance of losing to the bottom sides than anywhere else


But about werner - the word that sticks out in that interview is brutal. Once again, it's the refs. British refs are the biggest difference between the PL and the rest. Followed close behind by the sheer number of games and no winter break