German football is turd

Sir Marcus

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The PL has Pep, Klopp, Tuchel, Ancelotti, Bielsa, Rogers, Hodgson and Moyes.

The BuLi has... erm... Nagelsmann, Bosz and Rose. And Flick, the manager of by far your best club, just spent fifteen years out of management.

By coincidence, a lot of the best managers in the PL have managed in the BuLi in the past. But they're not there anymore, because unless you can land the Bayern job there's no point.
Good points.

For me, the Bundesliga is the least interesting of the top 5 leagues at the moment - I just cant bring myself to watch it, even when it was the only football on!
 

hasanejaz88

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The PL has Pep, Klopp, Tuchel, Ancelotti, Bielsa, Rogers, Hodgson and Moyes.

The BuLi has... erm... Nagelsmann, Bosz and Rose. And Flick, the manager of by far your best club, just spent fifteen years out of management.

By coincidence, a lot of the best managers in the PL have managed in the BuLi in the past. But they're not there anymore, because unless you can land the Bayern job there's no point.
Christian Streich. Put respect on that name!
 

GazTheLegend

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Did you feel the same way during the first game which was a complete tactical shambles, or does that not fit your narrative?
Hmm? A tactical shambles on Leipzigs part?

I remember the game vividly - if anything Leipzig had the better first half, it was only when a fresh Rashford and Bruno came on and OBLITERATED them that the game went into a rugby score. Overall I would argue that Leipzig set themselves up perfectly in the first half but failed to adjust in the second, or I'd argue that's more the quality of player eventually shining through than anything else. Similar story in the second game where we came within inches of equalising to 3-3. I believe strongly that Manchester United are a well coached team too but it's hard to say that on this forum without getting into an argument! We tend to respond well to games in the second halves.

I think you can't say German football is better run in general since I believe a huge aspect is also the generating of revenues and the EPL blows the Bundesliga out of the water in this discipline. Bundesliga clubs on the other hand are better at utilizing the budget they have but they themselves are also responsible that it is that much smaller.
The fan ownership, generally great treatment of supporters and the fact they allow a beer in the ground is enough justification for me to say football is better run in Germany! It's a shame people have to feel there's a competition between leagues - I've been made to feel VERY welcome by Bayern fans in the past and these sorts of 'x league is turd' inflammatory threads are a bit embarrassing to be honest, so I hope you don't take that sort of sentiment to heart.
 

Cheimoon

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Why are there Bundesliga fans on a Manchester United forum getting offended by a German professional player saying that he’s found it difficult in the premier league? If an Ex-United player found it difficult in the Bundesliga it wouldn’t bother me in the slightest, why are fans of teams in other leagues so defensive?

I think when people say the PL is the best league in the world they don’t mean that Burnley would beat Bayern every week they mean the Premier League is extremely competitive and exciting to watch. That’s it. People aren’t saying that Premier league teams are the best in the world.

I couldn’t imagine being on a Bayern Munich forum defending Liverpool because they got beat by a German club in the Champions league. It’s very strange, I want every PL team to get walloped by foreign opposition every time they play. Couldn’t imagine wanting a PL team to win to prove PL superiority, very odd.

Imagine ‘choosing’ to support Bayern Munich a very successful team, who you have no real connection to other than ‘they win stuff in Germany’ to then make an account on another teams forum to shit on the way they’re run and how bad their team is and how bad the league they play in is.

Might choose to be a Juventus fan today and go on the Chelsea forum and tell them why they aren’t top of the league. How weird would I have to be?
One thing you're missing is that your personal attitude to football is not representative of everyone else's. You're probably a passionate Man United fan (given how you're phrasing this), but most fans of other clubs on this forum probably aren't quite as partisan about their own clubs. Otherwise, they wouldn't be here having general football discussions, but would be creating posts like yours on their own clubs' forums. So it's only natural that, say, German posters on here don't mind as much to speak neutrally of German clubs that they don't support.

Also, I'm not sure what the comment about Bayern Munich fans is based on. What makes you think all the Bayern posters on here have no connection at all to the club? (as you seem to imply) And even if that's true for some of them, how is that different from the many United fans on here, especially those based outside the UK , that in many cases only became aware of United because they were winning stuff under Ferguson?

Finally, you seem surprised about @Zehner's style of responding, but since you chose to phrase your post in a ridiculing and condescending way (it does come across that way even if you didn't intend it to), of course you can expect people to push back with some aggression as well - especially since you're no way near the first poster to make this point.
 
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cyberman

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Hmm? A tactical shambles on Leipzigs part?

I remember the game vividly - if anything Leipzig had the better first half, it was only when a fresh Rashford and Bruno came on and OBLITERATED them that the game went into a rugby score. Overall I would argue that Leipzig set themselves up perfectly in the first half but failed to adjust in the second, or I'd argue that's more the quality of player eventually shining through than anything else. Similar story in the second game where we came within inches of equalising to 3-3. I believe strongly that Manchester United are a well coached team too but it's hard to say that on this forum without getting into an argument! We tend to respond well to games in the second halves.


The fan ownership, generally great treatment of supporters and the fact they allow a beer in the ground is enough justification for me to say football is better run in Germany! It's a shame people have to feel there's a competition between leagues - I've been made to feel VERY welcome by Bayern fans in the past and these sorts of 'x league is turd' inflammatory threads are a bit embarrassing to be honest, so I hope you don't take that sort of sentiment to heart.
They came to Old Trafford and played an absurdly high line. It was tactical suicide.
 

Threesus

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I definitely think the stats for the attackers get inflated there. Every team plays like there is a shot clock. There have been numerous success stories in the PL from the Bundesliga, so the league is not entirely without merit.
Not as entertaining as the PL though.
 

cyberman

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They did the same at home and took a 3-0 lead
Nope, we played 3 at the back and they countered with width. They didnt push that far forward, they stretched us out wide.
At OT they planted their CBs at the halfway line
 

giorno

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Nope, we played 3 at the back and they countered with width. They didnt push that far forward, they stretched us out wide.
At OT they planted their CBs at the halfway line
They did play a very high line at home as well, at least for the first half. That they exploited width doesn't change that
 

Mr.Ridiculous__

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Bundesliga arguably has the best managers in the world, on average. The current dominant playing styles and major tactical evolutions come from there

You talk about how poor they are at defending but ignore how good they are at attacking - much better on average than anywhere else

It's just that they have the least tactical variety among the top leagues - everyone presses high and tries to force quick transitions. Which is why it's the fastest paced league, with games often turning into up and down transition fests, and the reason for the poor defending

Easier overall for a truly great team like Bayern, compared to other leagues, but at the same time for merely very good team there's a higher chance of losing to the bottom sides than anywhere else


But about werner - the word that sticks out in that interview is brutal. Once again, it's the refs. British refs are the biggest difference between the PL and the rest. Followed close behind by the sheer number of games and no winter break
Yes, I specifically talked about defending. Because I wanted to mention that.
Not sure what's the issue.
 

Cheimoon

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I definitely think the stats for the attackers get inflated there. Every team plays like there is a shot clock. There have been numerous success stories in the PL from the Bundesliga, so the league is not entirely without merit.
Not as entertaining as the PL though.
This I don't get though. If they play like there is a shot clock, you're basically saying that they're very oriented towards getting to goal and creating chances quickly. But then you say the EPL is more entertaining. Isn't that contradictory?

More generally, this reminds of the idea that it's good that the EPL has more bottom-half teams that can grind out draws against top teams, as it means that top teams can never relax in the EPL. Apart from that this is objectively questionable as a claim (factually, because bottom-half teams don't get fewer points on average in other leagues; and also tactically, as draws give just 1 point and wins 3, which is why Leeds has a good league position with an attacking outlook regardless of the occasional trouncing), doesn't it also point to lower entertainment value? I mean, I'd think few people enjoy watching WBA or Burnley go for a 0-0 draw from the first minute when facing a top team. I'm not at all saying all BL matches are always fun, I'm just not getting that particular argument as meaning something positive the EPL. (Which does have a lot of truly competitive top and subtop teams with a lot of awesome players, which I think is really what its big selling point is.)

Quite sensitive this German lot aren't they?
Sorry to respond to you on this, as you're not one of the regulars to bring this up - but this constant bashing of posters defending the quality and decision-making in the Bundesliga is getting really tedious. It's derailing thread after thread - and often just to say that people shouldn't defend teams that aren't their own.
 

ForEverEleven

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As a Leverkusen supporter I would love it, if teams in our league would leave "acres of space", the reality is that 80% of the league parks the bus against the top sides, as it is in any other league. Sometimes highlights don´t particularly do justice.
 
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passing-wind

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Bundesliga is a good league. Maybe not as competitive as others in Europe but some points raised about the coaching / attacking ethos I think are valid points.

The issue for me however is defensively they leave too much space. Not to mention the culture, English football has always echoed an assertive amount of aggression which will influence the defending dramatically. I'm unsure of this relativity to Germany it could be that there's more emphasis on the technical / tactical side of things.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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If the PL looked like the Bundesliga, fans here would trumpet the open games and frequent high scores.

The PL is entertaining as it feels more even. In my opinion, the PL has far more mistakes that lead to goals being scored.

I’d rather see teams take chances to play football resulting in goals being scored, than have games decided by a litany of errors.

I watch far more PL games as it affects United. But I follow Stuttgart closely. German football is so much fun as a fan. I’ve been to lots of games and the culture is what England had in the 90’s. Less exploitation. More fun. Less ridiculous tribalism.

German and English folks are similar. It’s unpopular to admit, but we’re really quite the same. Especially when comparing either to the French, Italians, Spanish.
 

Kasper

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German football has teams like Wolfsberger making it into European competition only to get spanked by Tottenham. Says it all really.
 

Zehner

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German football has teams like Wolfsberger making it into European competition only to get spanked by Tottenham. Says it all really.
Finally someone who knows what he's talking about.
 

Sleigh

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I think we should shoehorn in a proper League cup to settle this arguement.

La Liga Vs Seria A
Bundasliga Vs Premier

Winners play off in a final.

Loads of feee fixture time to get this sorted.
 

Trezeguet17

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Would love a tournament where the worst 8 sides of each top leagues play it out against each other
 

giorno

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I don't know about football but i loved Rainier Wolfcastle in McBain
 

SCP

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Milinkovic wasn't too bad either.
Milinkovic Savic? His father played for bankrupted club in Portugal, Alverca, not good enough for LASK Linz, that club from Southern Germany.
 

C'mon FC

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Bundesliga arguably has the best managers in the world, on average. The current dominant playing styles and major tactical evolutions come from there

You talk about how poor they are at defending but ignore how good they are at attacking - much better on average than anywhere else

It's just that they have the least tactical variety among the top leagues - everyone presses high and tries to force quick transitions. Which is why it's the fastest paced league, with games often turning into up and down transition fests, and the reason for the poor defending

Easier overall for a truly great team like Bayern, compared to other leagues, but at the same time for merely very good team there's a higher chance of losing to the bottom sides than anywhere else


But about werner - the word that sticks out in that interview is brutal. Once again, it's the refs. British refs are the biggest difference between the PL and the rest. Followed close behind by the sheer number of games and no winter break
Of course it is, and 1.FC Koeln is by far the best team in the world. Everyone knows that, and from now on you belong to us too. ;)

And you can say that Bundesliga has the better managers due PL are signing them. But that doesn't matter actually because as long as there is a place where the most money is, most of players/coaches/managers will follow the cash, natuarally. The thing is though that PL work with a lot of money outside of football. Where would ManCity or Chelsea be if they weren't sponsored? Most likely nowhere, but they are because of the money they can spend. And that's what won't happen in Bundesliga because of the 50+1 (although the cans aka. Leipzig have found a way around it).
Long story short: As long as the PL has the financial background they will be always on top of Bundesliga (beside Bayern cause they can work financially like the big PL clubs), Bundesliga though will have always the "better" fanbase cause that's still the main part of the income of the clubs.