Get behind the manager and club

[Leftback99]

I don't know how anyone can still think our squad is on a par with Chelsea.

It was level at best last season and they've added 6 first team starters (Mendy, Chilwell, Silva, Havertz, Ziyech, Werner). We only added back ups at left back, CM and striker.

We were in a great position pre summer to strengthen our hold over a top 4 slot and we blew it.

 

[Strelok]

You are comparing us to Spurs (not MCFC or LFC).
By your reasoning, our squad is absolutely crap, needs to be scrapped in its entirety and rebuilt from scratch.
Remember, our coaching is garbage - players generally decline in skill/ability, so things will only get worse.

And as for the OP, you are basically saying support what the club do, no matter what they do and how badly they perform.
We have Woodward who is terrible as a DOF and isn't particularly good at getting sponsors either.
Then we have Matt Judge who negotiates wages and contracts - absolutely terrible. We have one of the highest wage bills in the World and as Strelok pointed out, our players aren't particularly good.
Then we have a manger who if fired today, would be unable to find a job in any of the top leagues in Europe. No team, including that which is bottom of the league would swap Ole for their current manager.
Then we have the sports doctors - who allow players to get out of shape and lose fitness. When those players who got out of shape leave us, they seem to get back in shape.
Then we have the coaching - when watching our team there are times when you wonder if coaching is actually taking place. Being unable to string a few passes together.
Then the players....and so on.

No I didn't say our squad is crap. I said decent. Worse than Kane and Son surely is not equivalent to being crap.

 

[VP89]

You simply conveniently forgot the post below.

Where I asked you if you think Ole can challenge Liverpool or City with the current squad. Because we're discussing about the club's ambition. Top 4 or titles.

Then suddenly you came up with the points and compared to last season stuffs. What does this have to do with our previous conversation?

And you still didn't answer my suggestion about the squads thread. Do we need one in the football forum?

Feel free to make one, but to make it clear here, I can only see Chelsea and Liverpool as having comfortably better squads than ours. There is a vast array of talent to our manager and coaching staff's disposal - they just need to drill them properly in training and embed a well suited system that works. It's easy to point to the squad and say it's not as good as you think, when the players are out there in 4231, 532, diamond esque 442 etc. It's difficult to settle when chopping + changing, and to be honest, we don't look well drilled 2 years into the Ole era which points to a coaching problem more than a squad problem. You can point to work ethic, pressing, etc.

No I didn't say our squad is crap. I said decent. Worse than Kane and Son surely is not equivalent to being crap.

Kane + Son does not equal the entire Spurs squad, but you've hit an interesting area of there being massive key man risk with them two players. Whereas with ours we have talent that is distributed across more highly talented players.
And as discussed earlier there really isn't much between Son and Rashford, for example.

 

[Strelok]

Feel free to make one, but to make it clear here, I can only see Chelsea and Liverpool as having comfortably better squads than ours. There is a vast array of talent to our manager and coaching staff's disposal - they just need to drill them properly in training and embed a well suited system that works. It's easy to point to the squad and say it's not as good as you think, when the players are out there in 4231, 532, diamond esque 442 etc.

Ok good then.

But wait, in your opinion even City squad is not better than ours?

 

[glazed]

Having said that, I am not really for throwing Ole out immediately. Especially if the whole idea is to get Poch. I think Poch is not someone who would be able to survive the dilly-dallying our board does in multiple transfer windows.

Correct. Ole is a symptom of the mismanagement of the club, not a cause of the failure directly.

 

[VP89]

Ok good then.

But wait, in your opinion even City squad is not better than ours?

Sorry, City is better too but now I don't think there is much by way of quality between the two.

Their full backs are better but I'd only take Laporte as a CB. I don't think Rodri is much good, and KDB is great but I'd rather have Bruno as a 10. Rashford/Greenwood/Martial vs Sterling/Mahrez/Jesus? Not a huge amount between them.
Out of Chelsea, City, Liverpool I'd say we are closest to parity with City. Which says a lot, I appreciate that. But I genuinely think there is a LOT of talent with us now especially after bringing in VDB, Cavani (who I don't think has lost it) and Telles.

 

[Strelok]

Sorry, City is better too but now I don't think there is much by way of quality between the two.

Their full backs are better but I'd only take Laporte as a CB. I don't think Rodri is much good, and KDB is great but I'd rather have Bruno as a 10. Rashford/Greenwood/Martial vs Sterling/Mahrez/Jesus? Not a huge amount between them.
Out of Chelsea, City, Liverpool I'd say we are closest to parity with City. Which says a lot, I appreciate that. But I genuinely think there is a LOT of talent with us now especially after bringing in VDB, Cavani (who I don't think has lost it) and Telles.

Ok I'll add City to the discussion too.

 

[alexthelion]

What's so funny?

It's the truth, however unpalatable you find it.

 

[VP]

Apart from Sir Matt and SAF, Manchester United, for all their status, have historically been one of the most average teams in the top league(s).

All this crap about how we're Manchester United, the biggest team, etc., needs to stop. It's not true historically except for the two blips already mentioned.

It's staggering how willing our fans are to drag our club in the mud to defend a mediocre manager.

 

[meamth]

It's staggering how willing our fans are to drag our club in the mud to defend a mediocre manager.

It's easy to say he is mediocre because he didn't win anything yet.

Lucky Zidane and Pep inherited world class squad, if they were to take Ole's squad, they too would be struggling.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

It's easy to say he is mediocre because he didn't win anything yet.

Lucky Zidane and Pep inherited world class squad, if they were to take Ole's squad, they too would be struggling.

Pep wouldn't be struggling with this squad. Ole is mediocre because that's what his CV shows and he hasn't done anything to prove otherwise

 

[Bobcat]

Well they might believe that, but only if they choose to ignore the wider context of how the club is being run, and assume that everyone running the club is acting in good faith towards the same goals that the top red has, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. But the truth is that the Glazers are not acting in good faith and Ole is there as part of that plan, lovable little imp though he is.

The problem is that once the top red accepts all that then his religion crumbles and he has to accept he is just a particularly gullible customer of an American owned business with no special status or worth. And then he's not a top red any more.

So yes - top reds do have to believe this rubbish in order to be top reds. It's what marxists call a false consciousness.

What are you smoking? Supporting the club/manager also means supporting the Glazers? What kind of mental gymnastics are that?

Everyone knows the Glazers are leeches that only really care about the bottom line of the fiscal year. Does that mean we have to throw the rest of the club under the bus as well?

 

[Number32]

Pep wouldn't be struggling with this squad. Ole is mediocre because that's what his CV shows and he hasn't done anything to prove otherwise

It's too early, but Pep is struggling now with a better squad. How about Pep vs Ole head to head record?

 

[R'hllor]

There is no way some of the posts in this thread are for real

 

[lysglimt]

Pep wouldn't be struggling with this squad. Ole is mediocre because that's what his CV shows and he hasn't done anything to prove otherwise

Pep is struggling with the squad he has had 4.5 years to build

 

[romufc]

The sloppiness in the transfer window was embarrassing and unforgivable. Sometimes we don't back the manager when needed and sometimes we give the managers too much freedom. Spending 80m on Maguire because Leceister didn't budge but he's the manager's number 1 target. And if Ole wanted us to keep trying for Sancho when it was obvious both clubs were not going to agree then you tell the manager to move on to other targets. This club is badly in need of a good DoF

Yes, I agree with what you are saying. Is it the manager who decides the fee? It doesnt matter if he is number 1, if the fee is too much someone at the club needs to have the balls to say no.

Look at Pep, he wanted Koulibaly but was too expensive and got Dias. If the club have the right structure in place, they will be able to spend the money better.

 

[Zhadow]

Pep is struggling with the squad he has had 4.5 years to build

But he won the Premier League in his 2nd and 3rd year. Not a bad record.

 

[VP89]

Yes, I agree with what you are saying. Is it the manager who decides the fee? It doesnt matter if he is number 1, if the fee is too much someone at the club needs to have the balls to say no.

Look at Pep, he wanted Koulibaly but was too expensive and got Dias. If the club have the right structure in place, they will be able to spend the money better.

I don't put any right wing failures this summer down to structure. I actually like how we approached the situation.

Ole wanted Grealish but a close 2nd was available with VDB who also fit the profile of player we were looking for. When Grealish was too expensive we went in for VDB efficiently.

We didn't go for an alternative to Sancho because I believe there was no one available fitting the profile we were after, and we had Greenwood off the back of a 19 goal season who played well there + after bringing Cavani in there was probably a view that Rashford can play if needed out right in certain games. With Diallo coming in January I'd imagine it's still a hole but a palatable one until they make their move for the right player.

With your example in Pep, they just went in and got a center back (after buying Ake too) that might or might not have been on Pep's desired list, and hasn't really made their defence much better. They just spent almost 100m EUR on their defence this season and it still looks pretty easy to score. That doesn't speak great about transfer "structure" either.

 

[romufc]

I don't put any right wing failures this summer down to structure. I actually like how we approached the situation.

Ole wanted Grealish but a close 2nd was available with VDB who also fit the profile of player we were looking for. When Grealish was too expensive we went in for VDB efficiently.

We didn't go for an alternative to Sancho because I believe there was no one available fitting the profile we were after, and we had Greenwood off the back of a 19 goal season who played well there + after bringing Cavani in there was probably a view that Rashford can play if needed out right in certain games. With Diallo coming in January I'd imagine it's still a hole but a palatable one until they make their move for the right player.

With your example in Pep, they just went in and got a center back (after buying Ake too) that might or might not have been on Pep's desired list, and hasn't really made their defence much better. They just spent almost 100m EUR on their defence this season and it still looks pretty easy to score. That doesn't speak great about transfer "structure" either.

I am bemused by the number of people think that clubs say to managers who do you want?

So, if the club is not in charge of transfers and Ole is. Do you think Ole scouted Regulion? Telles? Diallo? Pellestri? VDB? Cavani? whilst he is taking training and managing the squad, he has the time to scout players all over the world?

The club and the structure is the only reason we didn't sign a RW in the summer. It was a well known fact that Ole wanted a RW for a very long time. He wanted Sancho last summer and if you cannot deliver a player after 1 year, you need to accept it and let the manager know you cannot deliver one.

No one that fits the profile? get of it, anyone who plays RW as their natural position is better than Mata at RW.

 

[Sky1981]

Pep is struggling with the squad he has had 4.5 years to build

Ole > pep

 

[VP89]

I am bemused by the number of people think that clubs say to managers who do you want?

There is a conversation between manager and club, and Ole/Woodward have both said many times that it's down to Ole to say yes or no to the players they choose to target.

So, if the club is not in charge of transfers and Ole is. Do you think Ole scouted Regulion? Telles? Diallo? Pellestri? VDB? Cavani? whilst he is taking training and managing the squad, he has the time to scout players all over the world?

You probably need to read more into the history of what the club did by way of leg work for some of these players.

VDB was actively scouted:
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...fer-news/man-utd-vande-beek-transfer-18908515
Diallo was actively scouted for around a year or more, and the work permit leg work was started way before the end of the window (according to Mitten):
https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/man-utd-chasing-41m-diallo-more-than-a-year-galli/1qiu371s1psln163ziqtmmg5np#:~:text=Manchester United-,Manchester United had been chasing €41m Diallo for more,man who discovered his talent&text=Manchester United had been eyeing,winger and his brother Hamed.
Pellistri was actively scouted for a number of years apparently:
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...news/man-united-pellistri-debut-news-19159513
Telles and Regulon were reportedly on Ole's list of left backs to sign as per Romano and others throughout the window. Regulon we didnt see as worth a buyback option on, and moved for Telles who was seen as a close 2nd. So if anything that's another example of us moving for the 2nd choice if they fit the right profile.

These players are scouted and reports are reported to the manager who decides who he likes and dislikes before decisions are made. Ole has said himself he makes the decisions on the players that Ed will go for. Ed has said this too. I don't know what more you want?

The only opportunistic gamble was Cavani, and I see that as being fine and worth a risk for a player like him.

The club and the structure is the only reason we didn't sign a RW in the summer. It was a well known fact that Ole wanted a RW for a very long time. He wanted Sancho last summer and if you cannot deliver a player after 1 year, you need to accept it and let the manager know you cannot deliver one.

No one that fits the profile? get of it, anyone who plays RW as their natural position is better than Mata at RW.

There was no real alternative that fit the profile, lets be honest. We aren't just going to buy any right winger because they aren't Juan Mata. There's been a reset int hat sense and Ole himself said the club will be patient and get the right player instead of being hasty. If there was a proper alternative we'd probably hear about it like we did with Telles for Regulon, like we did for Donny for Grealish etc.

We actually had Dembele but rightly thought a perm transfer for a crock was never a good idea. And overspending on Sancho wasn't a good idea either. The club did right to wait for the proper profile of player to become available, whilst noting they have Greenwood and Diallo to come with Rashford as shown yesterday, capable of good performances there too.

 

[Gasolin]

I am bemused by the number of people think that clubs say to managers who do you want?

So, if the club is not in charge of transfers and Ole is. Do you think Ole scouted Regulion? Telles? Diallo? Pellestri? VDB? Cavani? whilst he is taking training and managing the squad, he has the time to scout players all over the world?

The club and the structure is the only reason we didn't sign a RW in the summer. It was a well known fact that Ole wanted a RW for a very long time. He wanted Sancho last summer and if you cannot deliver a player after 1 year, you need to accept it and let the manager know you cannot deliver one.

No one that fits the profile? get of it, anyone who plays RW as their natural position is better than Mata at RW.

He doesn’t scout for sure but he does give his approval. I think in that regard Ole has been good, as he seems to genuinely think about how to play a player in our system.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

What's so funny?

It's the truth, however unpalatable you find it.

We’ve won the top division at least once per decade in 7 decades since 1900 mate. That’s a record, level with Liverpool and Arsenal for decades with a top division title. (Although Arsenal’s total titles pales into insignificance compared to the big 2).

After United, Liverpool and Arsenal, only Everton come close before a massive drop off.

We’ve won the FA Cup in 8 decades. (Liverpool in just 5).

Add to that we’re also the most decorated club in English football.

Stop talking out of your arse @alexthelion trying to get a rise. If United aren’t a “big club”, there simply exists no big club in England.

 

[romufc]

These players are scouted and reports are reported to the manager who decides who he likes and dislikes before decisions are made. Ole has said himself he makes the decisions on the players that Ed will go for. Ed has said this too. I don't know what more you want?

So what? Ed has said we can do things in the transfer market that no one else can..

Ole said he wants Sanchez back and was looking forward to it.. did you believe him?

Ed and Ole say alot of things, doesnt mean its all true.

So why did we go for Dembele on the final day? If there is no alternative?

Like you highlighted the club scouted these players and then the managers get the say as to yes, I will have him or no. So the club could easily have scouted a CB who is not £80m and a RW who is not Sancho.

 

[romufc]

He doesn’t scout for sure but he does give his approval. I think in that regard Ole has been good, as he seems to genuinely think about how to play a player in our system.

I agree with that, the manager will be asked, what do you think of him?

But the poster has said that no blame goes to the board for us not signing a RW is pure crap. I get people dont like Ole but come on he isnt the reason we didnt get a RW.

 

[Sky1981]

So what? Ed has said we can do things in the transfer market that no one else can..

Ole said he wants Sanchez back and was looking forward to it.. did you believe him?

Ed and Ole say alot of things, doesnt mean its all true.

So why did we go for Dembele on the final day? If there is no alternative?

Like you highlighted the club scouted these players and then the managers get the say as to yes, I will have him or no. So the club could easily have scouted a CB who is not £80m and a RW who is not Sancho.

So you think all the signing so far has nothing to do with ole?

If ole dont like what he's getting. He could say no. Or you think he really has nothing to say in this matter?

 

[VP89]

So what? Ed has said we can do things in the transfer market that no one else can..

Ole said he wants Sanchez back and was looking forward to it.. did you believe him?

Ed and Ole say alot of things, doesnt mean its all true.

So why did we go for Dembele on the final day? If there is no alternative?

Like you highlighted the club scouted these players and then the managers get the say as to yes, I will have him or no. So the club could easily have scouted a CB who is not £80m and a RW who is not Sancho.

What is the point you are trying to make, because there is very little sense what you're saying.
You point to a lack of structure and I've given extensive examples of how most of our transfers this summer is a product of us diligently scouting the player before deciding to move for him. Or not getting a first choice but finding a close 2nd that fits the profile and bringing him in.
The only time that did not happen was 1) CB with Upamecano, which is wholly on the club and 2) Sancho, which is nothing to do with the club because no right winger that fits what Ole is after was really available, outside of Dembele who was hamstrung.

Now a couple of things on the Dembele final day rush - we were never going to cough up 120m EUR on Sancho, so the best thing was for us to see if Dortmund sweat with a 90m offer and cave closer to deadline day. They didn't cave, but again if you followed the window you'll see we started work on Dembele well before deadline day, a good 2ish weeks before and that too for a simple loan deal. Barca didn't agree to that and we'd be mugs for buying him outright, so again there was nothing wrong with our work there.

You have feck all to point to when suggesting the structure this summer was wrong, or that Ole was given little to work with (if that's what you're trying to insinuate here). He was given 3-4 players that he knew very well and a couple which he reportedly had on his short-list (VDB, Telles). Not to forget Cavani is a top player, deadline rush or not and Diallo was extensively scouted and known by Ole on top.

 

[romufc]

So you think all the signing so far has nothing to do with ole?

If ole dont like what he's getting. He could say no. Or you think he really has nothing to say in this matter?

I am saying its a mixture.

I.e Ole wanted a Grealish but the board said no too expensive but we have looked at Donny in the past and he is cheaper so what do you think of him? Ole probably thought, yeah I can do with him.

Same with RW, Ole said he wants Sancho if the club realised they cant get him, instead of saying to Ole, no we will get him, be real and say, look this might not happen, what is the alternative?

The poster said the board has no blame for not getting a RW? I dont agree with that.

 

[romufc]

What is the point you are trying to make, because there is very little sense what you're saying.
You point to a lack of structure and I've given extensive examples of how most of our transfers this summer is a product of us diligently scouting the player before deciding to move for him. Or not getting a first choice but finding a close 2nd that fits the profile and bringing him in.
The only time that did not happen was 1) CB with Upamecano, which is wholly on the club and 2) Sancho, which is nothing to do with the club because no right winger that fits what Ole is after was really available, outside of Dembele who was hamstrung.

Now a couple of things on the Dembele final day rush - we were never going to cough up 120m EUR on Sancho, so the best thing was for us to see if Dortmund sweat with a 90m offer and cave closer to deadline day. They didn't cave, but again if you followed the window you'll see we started work on Dembele well before deadline day, a good 2ish weeks before and that too for a simple loan deal. Barca didn't agree to that and we'd be mugs for buying him outright, so again there was nothing wrong with our work there.

You have feck all to point to when suggesting the structure this summer was wrong, or that Ole was given little to work with (if that's what you're trying to insinuate here). He was given 3-4 players that he knew very well and a couple which he reportedly had on his short-list (VDB, Telles)

Okay, I know feck all and you know best. Lets go with that.

So, a well organised business will wait 3 months until the deadline day to see if a team will sweat over a £90m offer when they dont have time to go get a replacement?

So a well organised club would wait until the last day to get Telles who is on the managers shortlist?

When the season started 3 weeks before that? Are you telling me that is how a well run organisation works?

We were scrambling on deadline day.. If Cavani was on the shortlist, why did it take it to final day? he was a free agent?

 

[shahzy]

Pep is struggling with the squad he has had 4.5 years to build

I think that just shows pro's football has an expiry date with a team. He's done it everywhere. Barca 3-4 years, Bayern same thing, city it's looking like around that same time too.

Kinda like Mourinho except not toxic. For the first few years he will win you things

 

[VP89]

I am saying its a mixture.

I.e Ole wanted a Grealish but the board said no too expensive but we have looked at Donny in the past and he is cheaper so what do you think of him? Ole probably thought, yeah I can do with him.

Same with RW, Ole said he wants Sancho if the club realised they cant get him, instead of saying to Ole, no we will get him, be real and say, look this might not happen, what is the alternative?

The poster said the board has no blame for not getting a RW? I dont agree with that.

Why not? Ole said himself he wants a particular player of a very specific profile. If we don't have RWers available to that end what fault is it of the board? Dembele permanent transfer would have been stupid and Sancho for 120m EUR would have been too much. Who else was there? Sarr? You think we should pay just £40m for a player for a season before going in on getting a Sancho or equivalent next summer? What sort of planet are you on?

Okay, I know feck all and you know best. Lets go with that.

So, a well organised business will wait 3 months until the deadline day to see if a team will sweat over a £90m offer when they dont have time to go get a replacement?

As I said, the choices for a top right winger fitting the profile Ole was after was very few. You can't even name any yourself. And you can talk about scouting to unearth one, but they actually did this with Diallo, and the process of his work permit started a lot earlier than deadline day. He was extensively scouted and we have big hopes for him (hence the fee).

So a well organised club would wait until the last day to get Telles who is on the managers shortlist?

We didn't "wait until the last day" what are you on about? The deal might have been wrapped up later as a formality, but the minute Regulon was passed on by us, it was very well reported that it's all in on Telles, personal terms were agreed for a long time before the window and we just longed out the agreement on the fee itself. But the player joined inevitably - and that points to having a proper structure in place where we moved for a close 2nd who was fitting the profile, and we didn't succumb to stupid buy-backs, silly fees or anything of like that. In the same window, we went for VDB who was 2nd to Grealish. And VDB was personally scouted by Ole in fact, so please don't make up a narrative in your head that Ed asked Ole "oh what about this guy" and Ole said "yeah okay". Ole knows a lot more about VDB than what you seem to have thought.

We were scrambling on deadline day.. If Cavani was on the shortlist, why did it take it to final day? he was a free agent?

Are you reading my posts? I said Cavani was the only deadline day gamble, and in my opinion a very good deal.

 

[romufc]

Why not? Ole said himself he wants a particular player of a very specific profile. If we don't have RWers available to that end what fault is it of the board? Dembele permanent transfer would have been stupid and Sancho for 120m EUR would have been too much. Who else was there? Sarr? You think we should pay just £40m for a player for a season before going in on getting a Sancho or equivalent next summer? What sort of planet are you on?


As I said, the choices for a top right winger fitting the profile Ole was after was very few. You can't even name any yourself. And you can talk about scouting to unearth one, but they actually did this with Diallo, and the process of his work permit started a lot earlier than deadline day. He was extensively scouted and we have big hopes for him (hence the fee).

We didn't "wait until the last day" what are you on about? The deal might have been wrapped up later as a formality, but the minute Regulon was passed on by us, it was very well reported that it's all in on Telles, personal terms were agreed for a long time before the window and we just longed out the agreement on the fee itself. But the player joined inevitably - and that points to having a proper structure in place where we moved for a close 2nd who was fitting the profile, and we didn't succumb to stupid buy-backs, silly fees or anything of like that. In the same window, we went for VDB who was 2nd to Grealish. And VDB was personally scouted by Ole in fact, so please don't make up a narrative in your head that Ed asked Ole "oh what about this guy" and Ole said "yeah okay". Ole knows a lot more about VDB than what you seem to have thought.

Are you reading my posts? I said Cavani was the only deadline day gamble, and in my opinion a very good deal.

I didn't say go spend £40m on Sarr. A well run club like Bayern Munich would not have let us go into a season without a RW. LAst season, they tried to get Sane but City said no, they didnt say... oooo we feel bad for ourselves there is no LW available, instead they said we will get Perisic on loan as a stop gap and get Sane the season after.

That is how a well run club operates.

We agreed personal terms with Sancho in August, personal terms mean feck all if you cannot agree a fee. Even with Telles, we didnt agree the fee until the lasy day which shows a complete incompetence.

Ole does not have time to go and personally scout players... he has a team to manager, coach.

 

[VP89]

I didn't say go spend £40m on Sarr. A well run club like Bayern Munich would not have let us go into a season without a RW. LAst season, they tried to get Sane but City said no, they didnt say... oooo we feel bad for ourselves there is no LW available, instead they said we will get Perisic on loan as a stop gap and get Sane the season after.

So who would you loan in to get as a stop-gap? We went for Dembele on loan and it was rejected. Koman reportedly wasn't a loan option. Who the feck is out there in a pandemic environment where a club will be willing to part ways with for a year?
It's got feck all to do with being well run or not, and everything to do with actual options in the market. Don't take your frustrations of availability out on the club.

We agreed personal terms with Sancho in August, personal terms mean feck all if you cannot agree a fee. Even with Telles, we didnt agree the fee until the lasy day which shows a complete incompetence.

No it doesn't, because the fee with Telles was always going to be a formality. And it ended up being the case. Go back and review how it unfolded and what the reports were saying. If you're upset about us agreeing a fee with Telles what, 7-10 days later then you're splitting hairs. The club wanted a bigger fee for a player who was a free agent from next year - we were just wearing them down which is fair fecks in this environment. And as I said, his fee was a formality in the end.

Ole does not have time to go and personally scout players... he has a team to manager, coach.

He might not have personally gone and sat in the stands to watch him, but he also wasn't just offered him and said "okay yeah sure".
He knew VDB for a long time, and we were scouting him for a long time.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...fer-news/man-utd-vande-beek-transfer-18908515

^ He was a player Ole knew, and Ole liked, and that Ole got. So stop trying to rip into shit structure when you don't have a case for it this summer. I will happily accept we fecked up massively on failing to secure Upamecano pre-contract renewal but everything else I don't think we did much wrong at all. Yeah it would have been nice to see Telles in a United shirt a week earlier, to see Diallo's work permit not to be so complicated due to his background, but it's not a major issue. I Actually like the balance of established players (Cavani), players on the verge of a big step up (VDB) and potential gems (Diallo/Pellistri).

 

[Sky1981]

Okay, I know feck all and you know best. Lets go with that.

So, a well organised business will wait 3 months until the deadline day to see if a team will sweat over a £90m offer when they dont have time to go get a replacement?

So a well organised club would wait until the last day to get Telles who is on the managers shortlist?

When the season started 3 weeks before that? Are you telling me that is how a well run organisation works?

We were scrambling on deadline day.. If Cavani was on the shortlist, why did it take it to final day? he was a free agent?

You know this kinds of deals doesn't materialize over a week time frame?

If Telles or anyone finalized on the deadline days that means the whole things have started at least 1 month ago. This is not FM where you can do deals in 3 hours time, finance have to be ready, contracts needs to be drafted, formal proposals have to be counter checked by both sides, insurance, health check etc.

I think you're just moving a goalpost to defend Ole, was it you who last year says Ole signings have been top notch and how he should be made DOF? but when things go south suddenly he has no saying, no veto power, it wasn't what he wants anyway.

 

[romufc]

You know this kinds of deals doesn't materialize over a week time frame?

If Telles or anyone finalized on the deadline days that means the whole things have started at least 1 month ago. This is not FM where you can do deals in 3 hours time, finance have to be ready, contracts needs to be drafted, formal proposals have to be counter checked by both sides, insurance, health check etc.

I think you're just moving a goalpost to defend Ole, was it you who last year says Ole signings have been top notch and how he should be made DOF? but when things go south suddenly he has no saying, no veto power, it wasn't what he wants anyway.

Okay, so Donny took how long to complete?

How long did Liverpool take to complete Jota?

I am not saying Ole doesnt get the final say, I am saying the club needs to have a structure in signing players.

Can you go find where I said he should be made DOF?

Ole's signings have been good, including the ones made this season but that doesnt gloss over the fact we needed a RW and CB.

 

[passing-wind]

Apart from Sir Matt and SAF, Manchester United, for all their status, have historically been one of the most average teams in the top league(s).

All this crap about how we're Manchester United, the biggest team, etc., needs to stop. It's not true historically except for the two blips already mentioned.

It's embarrassing some of the posts that's support Ole. No ambition fans posting senseless romanticism. I can completely comprehend support if Ole was making feasible progress but thus far we've started this season in woeful form

 

[VP89]

Okay, so Donny took how long to complete?

How long did Liverpool take to complete Jota?

I am not saying Ole doesnt get the final say, I am saying the club needs to have a structure in signing players.

Can you go find where I said he should be made DOF?

Ole's signings have been good, including the ones made this season but that doesnt gloss over the fact we needed a RW and CB.

You are just moving goalposts talking randomness about time taken now. VDB was actually a quick transfer too He came out of nowhere like Jota did.

A right winger fitting the profile needs to be available for us to move for him. As I said, Upamecano is the only disappointment but Telles, VDB, Diallo and Pellistri point to well thought out transfers with a structure of moving for the right profile when the player is available.
You still fail to provide a single example of an available right winger capable of improving our XI who a club would let go for a loan stop-gap in a pandemic environment.

 

[romufc]

You are now just moving goalposts talking random rubbish about time taken now. A right winger fitting the profile needs to be available for us to move for him. As I said, Upamecano is the only disappointment but Telles, VDB, Diallo and Pellistri point to well thought out transfers with a structure of moving for the right profile when the player is available.
You still fail to provide a single example of an available right winger capable of improving our XI who a club would let go for a loan stop-gap in a pandemic environment.

I forgot you know all the ins and outs of OT and what Ole and Ed think so no point trying to discuss with you..

Only at Manutd when you need signings they take 6 weeks to do whereas other clubs can get signings quicker.

I wouldn't be discussing with you if I was a scout... there are people who get paid to scout players.

Telles, VDB were on the short list as second choice, why wasnt there a RW.

 

[VP89]

I forgot you know all the ins and outs of OT and what Ole and Ed think so no point trying to discuss with you..

No one is trying to suggest this - but you are deluded if you think Ole doesn't ratify the players on the shortlist. He literally said he chooses the players and you're saying lets not believe him. So what's the point?

Only at Manutd when you need signings they take 6 weeks to do whereas other clubs can get signings quicker.

Cavani was quick, Pellistri was quick once we decided to act on purchasing him this season rather than scout longer, VDB was quick, Diallo had a work permit issue out of our hands and Telles we wanted to drive down the fee as he'd be a free agent.
Liverpool took a while with Thiago, with VVD, because they wanted to negotiate the fee more. What the feck is wrong with you?

Telles, VDB were on the short list as second choice, why wasnt there a RW.

There was - Dembele, who Barcelona didn't want to loan. Are you purposely burying your head in the sand here?

 

[lysglimt]

It's embarrassing some of the posts that's support Ole. No ambition fans posting senseless romanticism. I can completely comprehend support if Ole was making feasible progress but thus far we've started this season in woeful form

It hasn't been good enough - agreed. But to say that 9 wins in 14 is woeful form - sorry...that is just stupid. Especially given the special circumstances that gave our players too little time to prepare for the new season.