Get rid of VAR NOW! We want our game back! (...or not, some are happy)

VAR - Love or Hate?


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acnumber9

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Literally google VAR reports Spain or Italy or Germany or any of these other countries below

  • Argentina
  • Australia
  • Brazil
  • Belgium
  • China
  • Colombia
  • Czech Republic
  • England
  • France
  • Germany
  • Greece
  • Indonesia
  • Israel
  • Italy
  • Korea Republic
  • Kuwait
  • Morocco
  • Malaysia
  • Mexico
  • Netherlands
  • North Korea
  • Poland
  • Portugal
  • Romania
  • Russia
  • Qatar
  • Saudi Arabia
  • Spain
  • Switzerland
  • Thailand
  • Turkey
  • United Arab Emirates
  • Major League Soccer (US and Canada)
  • Vietnam
I literally googled VAR reports Spain and my top hit was an Iago Aspas goal for Spain. Which VAR reports have you personally read that prove what you’re saying? I’m happy to take expert advice from an expert who can confidently tell me it’s a success everywhere.
 
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Patience

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Not really both are based on emotion rather than logic. A look at if and buts without proof. People bringing up the emotion being taken away and talk of a VAR overlord sounds alot like brexit to me.

The stupid thing is people have examples around Europe of leagues who have had VAR for 3 seasons and it hasn't changed or reduced those fans excitement for football. Yet for some reason they bring up these crazy future scenarios when the future has already been written.

I am sorry. Firstly; the Brexit analogy is ridiculous. You know it is. It thoughtless and stupid.

Secondly; the hesitation in fan excitement for touch-and-goal goals is a huge topic of debate in the likes of Belgium and Italy and has been since VAR was introduced. What are you talking about?
 

Sir Red Devil

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Whilst I agree that VAR isn't good/accurate enough to call offsides, I also think that if we had Offside Line Technology we'd still have the issue of goals being ruled out because someone is a millimeter offside - which isn't what the point of the rule is or was when it was introduced.

For me the rule needs to be you're offside if your whole foot is ahead of the defenders trailing foot (or some other distance that actually equates to gaining an advantage)... and forget about whether your arm/head whatever is ahead
Yes. And with VAR not being very accurate when it comes to offsides, changing the offside rule is a good option. And I would even suggest changing the rule to: "unless the attacker is not fully ahead of the last defender then it's not an offside".
 

mancan92

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I literally googled VAR reports Spain and my top hit was an Iago Asia’s goal for Spain. Which VAR reports have you personally read that prove what you’re saying? I’m happy to take expert advice from an expert who can confidently tell me it’s a success everywhere.
Mate you know how to use google i am not doing it for you. There are various reports, articles and research papers on VAR uses from other countries. Honestly you can try to put your head in the sand but its up to you.
 

acnumber9

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Mate you know how to use google i am not doing it for you. There are various reports, articles and research papers on VAR uses from other countries. Honestly you can try to put your head in the sand but its up to you.
Which ones have you read so I know the best ones? Or have you not read any?
 

mancan92

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I am sorry. Firstly; the Brexit analogy is ridiculous. You know it is. It thoughtless and stupid.

Secondly; the hesitation in fan excitement for touch-and-goal goals is a huge topic of debate in the likes of Belgium and Italy and has been since VAR was introduced. What are you talking about?
It requires the same way of thinking thats why they are comparable. Emotion over logic. Also small minority or occassional voices doesn't equal backlash of any kind. It hasnt reduced numbers in stadiums or survey's of stadium experience.

Your second
Which ones have you read so I know the best ones? Or have you not read any?
I've read a few last summer during world cup time but I don't carry them to hand sorry but I'm sure if you spent some time digging you'll find them. VAR is a huge topic so organsations have spent millions into research theres plenty info out there.
 

acnumber9

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It requires the same way of thinking thats why they are comparable. Emotion over logic. Also small minority or occassional voices doesn't equal backlash of any kind. It hasnt reduced numbers in stadiums or survey's of stadium experience.

Your second


I've read a few last summer during world cup time but I don't carry them to hand sorry but I'm sure if you spent some time digging you'll find them. VAR is a huge topic so organsations have spent millions into research theres plenty info out there.
No idea what they were called at all? I’m finding it difficult to believe you’ve actually read any to be honest. Which makes it such a surprise you talk in such a matter of fact way.
 

Utdfanabroad

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I'll love it as long as it stops Liverpool and City scoring offside goals or getting penalties that shouldn't have been awarded
 

mancan92

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No idea what they were called at all? I’m finding it difficult to believe you’ve actually read any to be honest. Which makes it such a surprise you talk in such a matter of fact way.
As I said I read a few last summer. Not gonna really spend time looking now as have better things to do. But the clubs and leagues have spent huge amounts of money on research so again logically you know if you look you'll find many other them.
 

acnumber9

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As I said I read a few last summer. Not gonna really spend time looking now as have better things to do. But the clubs and leagues have spent huge amounts of money on research so again logically you know if you look you'll find many other them.
You haven’t read any that prove what you claim they do. You’re happy to waste time responding so you obviously don’t have anything better to do.
 

ROFLUTION

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When was the poll made? Would be nice with a fresh one after a couple of matches. Also i'd say a lot of people are not in the hate or love zone but inbetween / seeing it out
 

acnumber9

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I have thats why I said I have. But again bury your head in the sand if you want. The proof is there for you.
I tried the Google you suggested and it provided nothing. In the absence of evidence then I conclude you’re lying.
 

kouroux

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Yes. And with VAR not being very accurate when it comes to offsides, changing the offside rule is a good option. And I would even suggest changing the rule to: "unless the attacker is not fully ahead of the last defender then it's not an offside".
I'd be in favor for something like this.
 

Annihilate Now!

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Yes. And with VAR not being very accurate when it comes to offsides, changing the offside rule is a good option. And I would even suggest changing the rule to: "unless the attacker is not fully ahead of the last defender then it's not an offside".
Maybe they could go for the Cricket system... Goal is scored, linesman puts his flag up or doesn't depending on whether he thought it was offside, and then if they look at the video and the offside isn't clear cut they stick with the linesman's original decision.
 

ForestRGoinUp

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I am sorry. Firstly; the Brexit analogy is ridiculous. You know it is. It thoughtless and stupid.

Secondly; the hesitation in fan excitement for touch-and-goal goals is a huge topic of debate in the likes of Belgium and Italy and has been since VAR was introduced. What are you talking about?
There’s still debate in American football whether instant replay is hurting the product.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2018/03/28/jon-gruden-would-eliminate-instant-replay-from-the-nfl-and-he-isnt-alone/
 

ForestRGoinUp

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Maybe they could go for the Cricket system... Goal is scored, linesman puts his flag up or doesn't depending on whether he thought it was offside, and then if they look at the video and the offside isn't clear cut they stick with the linesman's original decision.
Yes, two standards should be set from the beginning. 1) Don’t stop the refs from doing their jobs. Let them call it on the field. 2) Use it for clear and obvious blunders.
 

stepic

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as long as more goals get scored with no VAR interference compared to VAR pulling back goals that weren't, the whole 'can't celebrate properly' thing will slowly go away.
 

adexkola

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You can be for VAR and still be concerned about the impact it has on matchgoing fans or the pace of the game. That's where I'm at. Eventually VAR should work like goal-line technology: instantaneous, embedded in the flow of the game, crystal clear to all, and practical.
 

Kostur

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Ah, so this is what it looked like when the homo neanderthalensis revolted when they were introduced to iPhone.
 

Sparky Rhiwabon

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Yes. And with VAR not being very accurate when it comes to offsides, changing the offside rule is a good option. And I would even suggest changing the rule to: "unless the attacker is not fully ahead of the last defender then it's not an offside".
The rule they used to have briefly then? "Clear daylight"
 

ForestRGoinUp

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Ah, so this is what it looked like when the homo neanderthalensis revolted when they were introduced to iPhone.
That it’s taken you all this time just to produce that pointless juvenile quip might do more to put you in that category.
 

Annihilate Now!

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You can be for VAR and still be concerned about the impact it has on matchgoing fans or the pace of the game. That's where I'm at. Eventually VAR should work like goal-line technology: instantaneous, embedded in the flow of the game, crystal clear to all, and practical.
Exactly

I have no issue with VAR being used for righting very obvious wrongs (clear penalties rightly/wrongly awarded, yellow/red card offenses etc.) - but I have massive issues with fractional offsides and handballs... but both of those issues come down to both the laws of the game as well as how VAR is being used for them.
 

RedFish

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Maybe this is one of the reviews @mancan92 has read...

VAR fails the football test in more ways than we could have imagined


The game is too emotional, and the experience within the stadium too important, for it to be reined in by a system that does not cater for either


https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2018/jan/13/var-football-referees-emotional-game
Feck Yes! That's what I'm talking about ( but too in our tickulut to convey).

*Barney! Barney! Barney!
 

bleedred

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Question to all those who are pro-VAR?

1) do you think that the number of checks/reviews would increase/decrease over the years

2) do you think it should still be limited to game changing decisions like penalties/red cards. Or for every decision like a foul/throw in.
 

bleedred

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ArjenIsM3

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Exactly

I have no issue with VAR being used for righting very obvious wrongs (clear penalties rightly/wrongly awarded, yellow/red card offenses etc.) - but I have massive issues with fractional offsides and handballs... but both of those issues come down to both the laws of the game as well as how VAR is being used for them.
Agree with this
 

Rafaeldagold

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Exactly

I have no issue with VAR being used for righting very obvious wrongs (clear penalties rightly/wrongly awarded, yellow/red card offenses etc.) - but I have massive issues with fractional offsides and handballs... but both of those issues come down to both the laws of the game as well as how VAR is being used for them.
That’s what it’ll be used for I’m afraid & for more & more things in the future- The response will be- ( technology is there? Why not use it? Are you a caveman?)

It’s a Pandora’s box that never should’ve been opened
 

ForestRGoinUp

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That’s what it’ll be used for I’m afraid & for more & more things in the future- The response will be- ( technology is there? Why not use it? Are you a caveman?)

It’s a Pandora’s box that never should’ve been opened
I guess to be fair to them, they've made it clear they don't care and will watch one way or another.
 

sullydnl

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Question to all those who are pro-VAR?

1) do you think that the number of checks/reviews would increase/decrease over the years

2) do you think it should still be limited to game changing decisions like penalties/red cards. Or for every decision like a foul/throw in.
1) They already check every goal so I'm not sure where the scope is for that to increase? Though it wouldn't bother me if it did as the checks aren't particularly intrusive.

Reviews are different and something that will need to be controlled through best practice. While I think there are flaws with the PL's iteration of VAR, it is in theory one designed to have relatively few checks and delays. I think in the whole weekend's games only two had major VAR interventions? They supposedly have a higher bar for what constitutes an error than CL/WC VAR, will be more lenient on handballs and will try to greatly reduce the need for on-field reviews. We'll see how it plays out but it at least suggests the concern is to reduce the number of reviews rather than allow them to increase.

2) Yes, unless technology improves to a ridiculous degree. As it stands the limitations of the system mean game changing decisions will be enough of a challenge on their own.
 

Spiersey

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The funny thing is the FA actually changed the rules this season. They have decided to remove any sort of subjection. The ball hits the hand doesn't matter if it is accidental or not.
Wasn't the FA, it was IFAB. It's a worldwide rule and it's actually a great rule. Any handball leading directly to a goal doesn't count. Zero ambiguity or being open to interpretation which is what causes all the issues regarding other handballs. Llorente one in the CL was a great example. It was accidental but was still a handball. VAR had to conduct a review and they had to work out whether it was on purpose. One ref might decide it was, another might decide it wasn't. This causes issues. The new rules completely solves this.
 

awop

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Question to all those who are pro-VAR?

1) do you think that the number of checks/reviews would increase/decrease over the years

2) do you think it should still be limited to game changing decisions like penalties/red cards. Or for every decision like a foul/throw in.
1) As pointed out in the article you linked, checks and reviews are 2 separate things.I think the checks will always be fairly high and invisible. If the rules stay the same, the number of reviews will stay the same. If rules change, they should decrease or at least take a lot less time (the offside rule for example)

2) I prefer if it's limited to game changing decisions, penalties, fouls (a bad foul that would merit a yellow instead of nothing would be eligible to me, no matter where it is on the pitch).

For example the situation last year in the Ajax game where they checked if the ball went out during a counter-attack is tricky. The game is so fast that an innocuous throw-in decision became linked to a goal situation. If from the start everyone knows that VAR won't intervene then i would not mind. If there's a mistake it falls back on the linesman.

But we can't have any variation in its use. The line has to be drawn before the season starts. And for the whole of football. We already have small differences between the PL and the CL and i don't like it. The game and the rules should be the same for everyone, everywhere.
 

sullydnl

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The rule that never existed?

And which solves nothing anyway. Changing where the offside line doesn't change the accuracy of calls.
Yep.

I think it's quite likely that the offside rule will be changed over the coming years but it will likely be less about shifting where the offside line is and more about changing it from an entirely objective call to one that allows some subjective discretion. Perhaps by incorporating the question of whether an advantage was gained.
 

MackRobinson

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Maybe it’s just you have never seen an NFL game without instant replay? That’s understandable. But it’s not only replays that kill the broadcast. It’s the constant calls of the refs every other play calling some kind of penalty for the littlest of infractions. Combine the two and it becomes unwatchable. You just accept this while I cannot. Therefore I just can’t watch it and enjoy it like I used to. VAR is not at that point yet but it will be.
You were watching the NFL in 1985?
Why are you bringing up issues that have nothing to do with reviews/challenges?

Great job of ignoring my other post and splicing a sentence of out this one. If you're going to do that just don't respond...