Exactly
Get rid of VAR NOW! We want our game back! (...or not, some are happy)
- Thread starter RedFish
- Start date
No offside makes the game absurdly stretched, it works on smaller pitches/team sizes as it is easier to cover the ground but on a full size pitch the game is a mess without it, would completely change the balance of the game and the ease of scoring.
This is probably true and I would not advocate it.
It would be interesting to see it applied in an elite game with elite players though.
This will never happen but I had the idea of canning the line-drawing & reviewing the film footage of offsides just by looking - it'd be quicker for a start.
And if you can't tell (identify a clear/obvious error) then the on field decision would stand - like for everything else kind of thing.
I do agree with the point that the line has to be drawn somewhere, somehow & that it is reasonable that that should stand whether it;s 1mm or whatever. But it's getting bogged down in the detail perhaps too.
As for anything, well... they're not actually hardly using it to make any actual decisions different to what their faultless refs have already decided on the park, so I sence that neither side of our heated debate is that impressed with it, atm.
Btw, Talksport commentary had had a full discussion of the implications of Spurs leading 2-0 this morning, winning the game & being back on the up before that goal got ruled out, it was farcical. Must have been 3 minutes.
And they said it changed the game. Lifted Leicester & the crowd allegedly/apparently.
But somehow, on the plus side, I do feel like there is more actual playing of football & less messing about by the players.
And if you can't tell (identify a clear/obvious error) then the on field decision would stand - like for everything else kind of thing.
I do agree with the point that the line has to be drawn somewhere, somehow & that it is reasonable that that should stand whether it;s 1mm or whatever. But it's getting bogged down in the detail perhaps too.
As for anything, well... they're not actually hardly using it to make any actual decisions different to what their faultless refs have already decided on the park, so I sence that neither side of our heated debate is that impressed with it, atm.
Btw, Talksport commentary had had a full discussion of the implications of Spurs leading 2-0 this morning, winning the game & being back on the up before that goal got ruled out, it was farcical. Must have been 3 minutes.
And they said it changed the game. Lifted Leicester & the crowd allegedly/apparently.
But somehow, on the plus side, I do feel like there is more actual playing of football & less messing about by the players.
The poll in this thread is still active, as opposed to the other. In case people want to vote.
However VAR is implemented, I don't think it should ever rule out a goal that was awarded by the officials on the field.
However VAR is implemented, I don't think it should ever rule out a goal that was awarded by the officials on the field.
What ? Why ? If there's a clear mistake, correct it.
you realise we also had a goal ruled out by VAR which lifted the spurs team?
Offside isn't subjective you either are or aren't, in a years time no one will be crying about it
I think (1) was a bit of making excuses for Spurs, tbh. But I was only quoting what they said.
The line part of offside isn't 'subjective' at all obviously**. But we seem today to have been talking about prior play in offside being fairly subjective today.
**I did say that tbf, before moving on to justify my silly idea that VAR just watches, to avoid the dull detail of offside is still offside wherever the line is, if you're over it.
Why do you say it'll be fine in a year? Not arguing, just interested.
because everyone will be used to it and find something new to whine about
Is daylight rule that thing where linesmen should let play continue in doubt?
That "rule" (I don't think it was a rule, but rather a recommendation from football authorities) was always self-defeatist. It was unfair to expect linesmen to actually do it, it would go against their own self-preservation instincts. A wrongly called offside was just that, and unless it was an overruled goal it died down pretty quickly. An offside goal, however how small, would be discussed on newspapers and TV for days on end, remembered by fans for years.
Are defenders really getting the advantage now? I haven't watched many games since VAR is a thing, but the few I did gave me the impression linesmen were now a lot more closer to the daylight rule than back then, which makes sense, as that risk-reward thing got inverted. Now they have no reason to be over-zealous, as VAR will cover them if it's an illegal goal, but they have no excuse (and the rules have no solution) to wrongly interrupt play.
Last edited:
seen some ridiculous offside decisions lately with this VAR bullcrap.
When i watch the footage i struggle to find the lines they draw conclusive.
WHY not end all debate and use the GPS vest that all players wear every game anyway with the tracker dead center of cest and just use that. Who cares if someones little toe is offside, just go off the GPS tracker, dead center of chest, job done.
Saw an interesting pieve earlier about the framerate vs the speed of running which can give around 20cms of error between frames - this i have no fix for.
When i watch the footage i struggle to find the lines they draw conclusive.
WHY not end all debate and use the GPS vest that all players wear every game anyway with the tracker dead center of cest and just use that. Who cares if someones little toe is offside, just go off the GPS tracker, dead center of chest, job done.
Saw an interesting pieve earlier about the framerate vs the speed of running which can give around 20cms of error between frames - this i have no fix for.
because the GPS vest will only show where the vest is, the Law is any part of the body which can be used to score not just the upper back.
I find it amazing how people complained for years about poor decisions now they do something about it and people moan about that, if it bothers you so much go watch non-league for the purity of the game
I think it might help if there was a time limit after an offside during which any goal the attacking team score is ruled out. It could be used together with the current definitions of what constitutes a new phase of play. So for instance if the attacking team scores within say 10 seconds of the offside and no clear new phase of play has begun then the goal is ruled out.
Anything which reduces the subjectivity of decisions can only help.
Anything which reduces the subjectivity of decisions can only help.
just think it could be simpler by changing the law to the centre of chest as oppose to body parts. its beyond stupid and still not conclusive.
That would never be applicable for lower-league football though. So essentially, you'd have one set of rules for the top leagues and one for the lower leagues/grassroots football, and you'd have it written into the laws of the game? Would never happen.
the only reason VAR is failing is that the VAR officials won't overrule their colleagues, it's obviously been agreed amongst themselves otherwise things like the Sokratis hand ball would be overruled
I think people were under the assumption that it was going to discount goals from the howlers that pop up from time to time via human error. And it has done that, yes, but it is being taken to the next level looking at 1.2cm
If it's that close I don't care, award the goal. The game is about entertainment and the decisions will even out over time anyway. Look at Spurs, got away with it against City with a few VAR decisions, now they have one going against them.
Provided the VAR system is consistent of course, which is another debate entirely.
I'd agree with that.
I've always thought offside should be clear daylight between attacker and defender.
They could also add an extra line midway inside each half and get rid of the halfway line to increase the area of the pitch within which you cannot be offside.
Lastly, let's trial abolishing offside altogether. Football would be awash with goals. It'd be awesome.
They could also add an extra line midway inside each half and get rid of the halfway line to increase the area of the pitch within which you cannot be offside.
Lastly, let's trial abolishing offside altogether. Football would be awash with goals. It'd be awesome.
VAR is taking something out of the game. As a kid during my first game at the Bridge I had never known excitement like when Ian Hutchinson scored the first goal. I had never seen grown men go berserk like that and it showed me how happy people can be. That experience is formative and not just a reason for going to football matches but a life experience teaching you how to have fun. Its important. If we hesitate when a goal goes in we lose something. Not just football. Young kids now will wait to see if the goal is given before celebrating. For me the game loses too much with the current use of VAR. It works for goal line decisions as these are immediate but delayed decisions delay the excitement. We currently continue to celebrate and momentarily forget about VAR and still celebrate goals but a time will come when people will wait to celebrate. It is human nature to gradually accept things and the acceptance of VAR in its current form would erode the enjoyment of going to matches. It cannot be allowed to continue in its current form.
I was actually a supporter of VAR before this season and thought goal line technology worked perfectly. It did, but only because the technology was clear and the ref or somebody down at Stockley Park had nothing to do with making the decision. Where the ball and line are is decided by the technology. The digital image of both objects is recorded and when one passes the other the alarm goes off in the refs watch and the goal is given. No guy in an office 30 miles away having to decide when the ball was kicked or which part of a player should a measurement be taken from. This also takes ages. It took over a minute on sunday and by all accounts this was quick compared to other incidents. A minute to celebrate and then realise you might be wrong to celebrate. The potential disappointment shakes you horribly and you question if you should celebrate next time? You also question if the officials, those present and those not, are going to make a fair assessment. I still think Mason was on side. The offside law was developed to prevent goal hanging and we have lost sight of that. It isn't there to punish someone who maybe quicker than the reflexes of a computer operator. I know before VAR we sometimes celebrated and the lineman had his flag up but an immediate decision was made and everybody learned to look at the linesman flag when a goal was given. Imediately. Not stand around for a minute and have a moan about VAR. The game loses too much when the flow is so disjointed on offside decisions. We will probably have to work out how to deal with diving and fouls at some point down the road but at the moment VAR's use on offside decisions is taking more away from the game than it is giving back. For the good of the game the technology has to improve.
Is it impossible for the technology to improve? I have thought about this and surely if all players wear a sensitive GPS sensor on their backs and the a pressure sensor is located inside the ball to determine when the ball is being kicked, somebody should be able to invent a piece of software to work out if an offside offence has been committed. It's not rocket science. It's far more important than that.
I was actually a supporter of VAR before this season and thought goal line technology worked perfectly. It did, but only because the technology was clear and the ref or somebody down at Stockley Park had nothing to do with making the decision. Where the ball and line are is decided by the technology. The digital image of both objects is recorded and when one passes the other the alarm goes off in the refs watch and the goal is given. No guy in an office 30 miles away having to decide when the ball was kicked or which part of a player should a measurement be taken from. This also takes ages. It took over a minute on sunday and by all accounts this was quick compared to other incidents. A minute to celebrate and then realise you might be wrong to celebrate. The potential disappointment shakes you horribly and you question if you should celebrate next time? You also question if the officials, those present and those not, are going to make a fair assessment. I still think Mason was on side. The offside law was developed to prevent goal hanging and we have lost sight of that. It isn't there to punish someone who maybe quicker than the reflexes of a computer operator. I know before VAR we sometimes celebrated and the lineman had his flag up but an immediate decision was made and everybody learned to look at the linesman flag when a goal was given. Imediately. Not stand around for a minute and have a moan about VAR. The game loses too much when the flow is so disjointed on offside decisions. We will probably have to work out how to deal with diving and fouls at some point down the road but at the moment VAR's use on offside decisions is taking more away from the game than it is giving back. For the good of the game the technology has to improve.
Is it impossible for the technology to improve? I have thought about this and surely if all players wear a sensitive GPS sensor on their backs and the a pressure sensor is located inside the ball to determine when the ball is being kicked, somebody should be able to invent a piece of software to work out if an offside offence has been committed. It's not rocket science. It's far more important than that.
Linesman are told to leave tight decisions to VAR though? What you would have is every non obvious offside not given that doesn't lead directly to a goal.
It would be madness.
The more I see complaints against VAR the more I realise its the best compromise simply because posters ideas don't actually solve their complaints.
Nobody can come up with anything better than what's being used now.
Whats wrong with the proposal in the post directly before yours.
I mean that’s just wrong. VAR is failing because it always has been & always will be unsuitable for football.
and yet it worked perfectly well at the last World Cup and fine in other league only in England can they not cope
No that’s another lie pro var people say- it isn’t perfect in other countries & many people hate how it:
ruins the flow of the game, ruins goal celebrations as every single goal is checked, is still not making the game that much fairer as there’s inconsistencies game to game as it’s a different VAR ref reviewing the game.
So if it still causes as many problems as it solves & infact adding new ones coupled with all the drawbacks then what’s the point of it?
In Spain broadcaster of the Bilbao Valencia game produced an offside graphic which did not match the official VAR one.
Seemingly because VAR used players shoulder as the line, correctly.
https://mobile.twitter.com/rfef/status/1178028822102528000
https://www.rfef.es/noticias/rfef-m...-acontecido-dia-hoy-estadio-san-mames-durante
Seems like they've taken it as a deliberate attempt to discredit the seemingly correct VAR descision...
Seemingly because VAR used players shoulder as the line, correctly.
https://mobile.twitter.com/rfef/status/1178028822102528000
https://www.rfef.es/noticias/rfef-m...-acontecido-dia-hoy-estadio-san-mames-durante
Seems like they've taken it as a deliberate attempt to discredit the seemingly correct VAR descision...
I agree. Making offside decisions so "high resolution" makes little sense.
1) Should have been a penalty for us. Though I'm not surprised it wasn't given how utterly stupid the PL decided to make their version of VAR. What the hell actually has to happen for a subjective decision to be overturned?
2) VAR did its job on the Arsenal goal but, more importantly, how the hell did they think it was ever offside in the first place? He was so far on side it should never have been necessary. .
2) VAR did its job on the Arsenal goal but, more importantly, how the hell did they think it was ever offside in the first place? He was so far on side it should never have been necessary. .
Referees are inept and they can't be seen to be shown up every match. That must be the reasoning behind the way these rules have been drawn up. There's so much holes in them, that they're screwing teams over every week because of them.
It's not what the hell actually has to happen for a subjective decision to be overturned? It's Var won't overturn the referee decision period because of the PL rules.
Tells you everything doesn't it?
Last edited:
I don't know about VAR but how the linesman thought that was offside boggles my mind. The play occurred right in front of him, Auba was onside by a mile!
To the detriment of Utd! If he wasn't blind then obviously the game would have naturally unfolded without any outside interference.
We will never know what the outcome could have been because of such a poor judgment
Going to take a stab at explaning a thought thats been going round my head re "clear and obvious" after this spurs game.
Say im the var ref and the im called in on a penalty review.
Can i disagree with an on field decision but in my position as a var review ref not actually overturn his decision in that it wasnt clear an obvious
Take Danny Rose's penalty. If i was the on field ref, i wouldnt have gave a penalty. But as the var ref, i can see how the on field gave a penalty even if i wouldnt have, its not a clear and obvious error, so while i disagree with it, i don't overturn it.
Is this a possibility?
Say im the var ref and the im called in on a penalty review.
Can i disagree with an on field decision but in my position as a var review ref not actually overturn his decision in that it wasnt clear an obvious
Take Danny Rose's penalty. If i was the on field ref, i wouldnt have gave a penalty. But as the var ref, i can see how the on field gave a penalty even if i wouldnt have, its not a clear and obvious error, so while i disagree with it, i don't overturn it.
Is this a possibility?
It seems, in the PL at least, VAR is just for offsides now. I can't remember it overruling anything
VAR showing why it's a good thing, calling off a completely unfair goal in the Libertadores semi that would never be called otherwise.
It's great when implemented properly but the Premier League's weird policy of not overruling decisions defeats the purpose.
Exactly, that's why it baffles me that most of the criticism is drawn to the system and not to the people that use it incorrectly.
The PL refs might as well use their underwear on their heads and the whistles in their arses, given how they operate VAR.
The only difference with the PL is that the refs aren't allowed to view a monitor in the dug out. That's my understanding anyway...
The on pitch refs have been informed to officiate like VAR doesn't exist while the officials monitoring the games have a policy of not overturning decisions unless they meet some imaginary "high bar" of "a clear and obvious error". The current PL policy basically gives everyone a cop out.
Mike Riley (the head ref) for example addressed four big VAR mistakes at a Premier League shareholders meeting in early September admitting that while he understood incorrect decisions were being made, he was happy about them because they proved his officials were sticking to this "high bar" rubbish.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
A fair few VAR interventions today, all of them correct calls as far as I saw. But.....
The feck up with the graphics in the Spurs game is *such* a basic mistake.
The feck up with the graphics in the Spurs game is *such* a basic mistake.