Get rid of VAR NOW! We want our game back! (...or not, some are happy)

[Fully Fledged]

people had been complaining for years of injustice and that's why VAR was slowly introduced. Now that VAR is couple of games old and already complains of throw it out. VAR is in infancy at the moment, at least give it some time to mature.

And for clear and obvious mistakes I'm okay with it. I'm okay with the Rice encroachment decision as he was miles over the line but not with the goal that was disallowed, it wasn't clear and obvious.
I know that is not what they are now saying for offside now but it was the mandate that they were given when they first decided to look into VAR. It was only when they saw the technology that they changed the goalposts. I don't agree with that change in goalposts.

 

[Dante]

Feck VAR, I want injustice like this instead to give football "its charm" back:

Vuvuzelas, ffs. I'd repressed that memory for almost a decade.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

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[Fooza]

How exactly do bad decisions even themselves out ? I'd like for someone to explain me this lunacy

You often will get things go in your favour and against you over a span of 38 games. How exactly is that lunacy? Name me a season where we had a lot more incorrect decisions instead of correct ones that's had a detrimental effect on a position?

But I ask you this, anyone who has ever won a league game before. Would you say they won the league because they played well overall? Yes, not because the referee got them there with specific decisions. In fact the top 4 will be top 4 based on consistent results, not because of refereeing decisions. I've not come across one season where the table cleared showed a team being on top 4 based on just referee decisions instead of performances.

 

[awop]

When it became wrong for supporters to enjoy their job ?

Nothing wrong at all, turns out i was also debating getting the PL Referee 19/20 Shirt with Atkinson #1 but can't find it on dhgate Guess i'll stick with the new Adidas Arsenal Home.

 

[Fully Fledged]

It’s easy to be annoyed with VAR in the city game as it had no affect on the outcome.
Once it’s used to decide the points then it’ll be a totally different story, especially if it causes our big rivals to drop points, or us to gain the points.

What about when it's the other way around?

 

[Random Task]

Feck VAR, I want injustice like this instead to give football "its charm" back:

An unforgettable moment that.

We had a good team that year as well.

 

[Random Task]

 

[SaintMuppet]

The first time a goal against your team is chalked off you will all be claiming VAR is a gift from god.

Don’t bother denying it.

Some of you lot are not happy unless you have something to moan about.

 

[sullydnl]

And for clear and obvious mistakes I'm okay with it. I'm okay with the Rice encroachment decision as he was miles over the line but not with the goal that was disallowed, it wasn't clear and obvious.
I know that is not what they are now saying for offside now but it was the mandate that they were given when they first decided to look into VAR. It was only when they saw the technology that they changed the goalposts. I don't agree with that change in goalposts.

What are you basing the idea that they changed the goalposts on? As in do you have a link to anything indicating indicating that VAR was initially not going to include offsides?

 

[Random Task]

One for the Irish lads.

 

[kouroux]

You often will get things go in your favour and against you over a span of 38 games. How exactly is that lunacy? Name me a season where we had a lot more incorrect decisions instead of correct ones that's had a detrimental effect on a position?

But I ask you this, anyone who has ever won a league game before. Would you say they won the league because they played well overall? Yes, not because the referee got them there with specific decisions. In fact the top 4 will be top 4 based on consistent results, not because of refereeing decisions. I've not come across one season where the table cleared showed a team being on top 4 based on just referee decisions instead of performances.

It is lunacy in the sense that no one can prove a statement like bad mistakes get even during the course of a season, unless a very detailed is made for every single team.
I'd say final standings over the course of 38 games is a fair representation of things overall, it still doesn't mean big mistakes weren't made along the way, players harshly sent off or suspended.

 

[RedFish]

They probably think that 'VAR' is a cryptic anagram of 'EU'.

 

[Fully Fledged]

What are you basing the idea that they changed the goalposts on? As in do you have a link to anything indicating indicating that VAR was initially not going to include offsides?

It was all said to be clear and obvious even offside not that offside wasn't going to be included.

 

[RedFish]

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This!!!

 

[ivaldo]

It almost makes having a referee pointless. How can we judge who is the best referee in the business for example ? literally everything is done by VAR now, they are all afraid of making a call by themselves.

I swear some people think VAR is some sentient being. It's a tool used by referees for referees to making refereeing decisions.

 

[sullydnl]

It was all said to be clear and obvious even offside not that offside wasn't going to be included.

Okay. In that case I'm pretty sure you're wrong. Offside never had to be deemed a "clear and obvious error" under VAR, nor did anyone say it would be. Unless you have a link to something official saying otherwise?

The idea that offside was a yes or no call pre-existed VAR. The problem was that it was such a difficult call to make with the naked eye that leeway was built into how the rule was handled. It would have been stupid to carry that leeway into how VAR is used though, so nobody did.

 

[Fooza]

It is lunacy in the sense that no one can prove a statement like bad mistakes get even during the course of a season, unless a very detailed is made for every single team.
I'd say final standings over the course of 38 games is a fair representation of things overall, it still doesn't mean big mistakes weren't made along the way, players harshly sent off or suspended.

That's my point, big refereeing mistakes don't often show in a league in terms of a representation as compared to a knockout competition.

For me anyways, teams have incorrect calls all the time for and against them during a league, how many times we say it's luck. Whether that totally evens out, probably not and we don't know but it does happen and that was just part of the game.

 

[Joga Bonito]

I think it's great move myself.

I’m saying it takes a lot of fun out of the experience and that will definitely impact on people going to games.

People act like live football viewing figures are through the roof. They’re not. City can’t sell out. We have games with smatterings of empty seats. This is just another way match going fans will have to have a lesser experience.

And why does it bother you if viewing figures are going to go down or if bloody City can't sell out. Unless it's related to United I don't really see why you need to get so invested in it. Right up there with slowing 'football growth' .

I’m already close to jacking it in, this annoys me more s

Then do that, no one's going to stop you. People will throw a fuss about anything these days.

 

[Terminator]

A margin of error has to be introduced for offside calls. Tech can never be perfect(A single frame can massively affect a decision), make it like the DRS in cricket for an onfield decision to be overturned.

 

[kouroux]

That's my point, big refereeing mistakes don't often show in a league in terms of a representation as compared to a knockout competition.

For me anyways, teams have incorrect calls all the time for and against them during a league, how many times we say it's luck. Whether that totally evens out, probably not and we don't know but it does happen and that was just part of the game.

It still doesn't mean football cannot benefit from better and fairer decisions.

 

[Fooza]

It still doesn't mean football cannot benefit from better and fairer decisions.

True, for me the outcome will still be the same league ending in terms of a fair representation. So I was just questioning whether it's really needed for leagues. For knockouts I'm all for it and it was much needed.

 

[ForestRGoinUp]

7 pages and it's only 16:16 on a Saturday!

VAR is great! It's stokes discussion and makes the game so much more exciting.

Thanks @RedFish for converting me to loving VAR.

I wasn't sure if it would be a good thing, but this thread proves how much more interesting it makes debates about matches.

This isn’t interesting debate, mind.

 

[kouroux]

True, for me the outcome will still be the same league ending in terms of a fair representation. So I was just questioning whether it's really needed for leagues. For knockouts I'm all for it and it was much needed.

I think yes, because there still needs to be data in order to hopefully keep working on improving the whole system and a big change like that has to be applied for all competitions in order for players and refereees to be fully used to it

 

[ForestRGoinUp]

True, for me the outcome will still be the same league ending in terms of a fair representation. So I was just questioning whether it's really needed for leagues. For knockouts I'm all for it and it was much needed.

Another wonderful point.

 

[Dante]

This isn’t interesting debate, mind.

As Plato once said, "Yes, it is."

 

[Fully Fledged]

Okay. In that case I'm pretty sure you're wrong. Offside never had to be deemed a "clear and obvious error" under VAR, nor did anyone say it would be. Unless you have a link to something official saying otherwise?

The idea that offside was a yes or no call pre-existed VAR. The problem was that it was such a difficult call to make with the naked eye that leeway was built into how the rule was handled. It would have been stupid to carry that leeway into how VAR is used though, so nobody did.

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/us/feat...eree-fix-clear-obvious-mistakes-interview-mls
This article for one goes on about VAR being clear and obvious multiple times but never once says that offside was the exception to that rule.

 

[mancan92]

This debate reminds me of brexit. There's no logic to not giving referees more time and opportunity to make a better decision. Also offside is offside there's no margin for error those are the rules. Overtime it will become faster but apart from that it's far more positive than negative.

 

[sillwuka]

It's a strange one as you know players won't fully celebrate goals. Something doesn't sit right to me.

VAR will take a while to get used too as nobody really knows how to react at the moment.

 

[ForestRGoinUp]

This debate reminds me of brexit. There's no logic to not giving referees more time and opportunity to make a better decision. Also offside is offside there's no margin for error those are the rules. Overtime it will become faster but apart from that it's far more positive than negative.

And 56 is 56. Do it in a 55 and I hope they’ll send you the 100£ ticket.

 

[ForestRGoinUp]

It's a strange one as you know players won't fully celebrate goals. Something doesn't sit right to me.

VAR will take a while to get used too as nobody really knows how to react at the moment.

The new normal is only ever going to be subdued celebrations. In an event built for entertainment.

 

[U-N-I-T-E-D]

You often will get things go in your favour and against you over a span of 38 games. How exactly is that lunacy? Name me a season where we had a lot more incorrect decisions instead of correct ones that's had a detrimental effect on a position?

But I ask you this, anyone who has ever won a league game before. Would you say they won the league because they played well overall? Yes, not because the referee got them there with specific decisions. In fact the top 4 will be top 4 based on consistent results, not because of refereeing decisions. I've not come across one season where the table cleared showed a team being on top 4 based on just referee decisions instead of performances.

Not a fan of this argument as it doesn't hold for me.

Let's say Team A lose the league to Team B by a point (or a CL spot, relegation battle etc etc). Team A are given a goal that shouldn't have stood when they were 3-0 up - ends 4-0 instead of 3-0 and they receive the same points.

The next week they have a decision go against them at 1-1, perfectly good goal given offside. Game ends 1-1 rather than 2-1 and they lose 2 points.

With VAR making the CORRECT decisions Team A would win the league.
Without, the wrong decisions stand and they finish a point behind Team B.

Those decisions aren't equal.

 

[mancan92]

And 56 is 56. Do it in a 55 and I hope they’ll send you the 100£ ticket.

Well yes in the lottery if I get 6 out of 7 numbers I still haven't won. That's life that's the rules. You can argue you don't like the rules but there's no logic to an argument which wants to break the rules.

 

[mancan92]

The new normal is only ever going to be subdued celebrations. In an event built for entertainment.

Or it will be like american football, rugby or any other modern day sport. And players will still celebrate

 

[Sandikan]

The decisions have been brilliant to be fair. Some fans are just upset City are't always offside like they claimed they would be

What like Sterling being offside ruling Jesus' second out?

 

[Fully Fledged]

Well yes in the lottery if I get 6 out of 7 numbers I still haven't won. That's life that's the rules. You can argue you don't like the rules but there's no logic to an argument which wants to break the rules.

Tell that to the suffragettes.

 

[Sandikan]

The Barcelona home game gave us a taste of how it'll be.

Barcelona score - they celebrate.

Goes to VAR - We all celebrate - their fans stop.

Goal given - deathly silence.

 

[U-N-I-T-E-D]

The Barcelona home game gave us a taste of how it'll be.

Barcelona score - they celebrate.

Goes to VAR - We all celebrate - their fans stop.

Goal given - deathly silence.

Surely their fans cheered again?

3 cheers for the price of one - bargain.

 

[Sandikan]

You often will get things go in your favour and against you over a span of 38 games. How exactly is that lunacy? Name me a season where we had a lot more incorrect decisions instead of correct ones that's had a detrimental effect on a position?

But I ask you this, anyone who has ever won a league game before. Would you say they won the league because they played well overall? Yes, not because the referee got them there with specific decisions. In fact the top 4 will be top 4 based on consistent results, not because of refereeing decisions. I've not come across one season where the table cleared showed a team being on top 4 based on just referee decisions instead of performances.

It's the biggest myth in football.

For starters, teams who attack more, are obviously in more dangerous positions more often. ie Liverpool and City.
There's no way they conceded more dodgy pens/offsides last year than they gained from. You cannot possibly say that evens out.
(using those 2 as the best example last year - add in other names other seasons)

 

[utdalltheway]

What about when it's the other way around?

Major meltdown will ensue.
It’ll all even out though.

 

[ForestRGoinUp]

It's the biggest myth in football.

For starters, teams who attack more, are obviously in more dangerous positions more often. ie Liverpool and City.
There's no way they conceded more dodgy pens/offsides last year than they gained from. You cannot possibly say that evens out.
(using those 2 as the best example last year - add in other names other seasons)

Are you proving here that it doesn’t? I’m missing it if so.