Greenwood or Martinelli

GlasgowCeltic

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I'd rather be Martinelli than Greenwood over the next 18 months or so (or however long Ronaldos contact has left)
 

Righteous Steps

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It was Greenwood when this thread was started and it’s still Greenwood now. Different levels.
They are not different levels, Greenwood is the more natural finisher, but Martinelli probably pips him all round, his dribbling, tenacity and work rate is better.

I would say they’re about equal for different reasons.
 

Siezard

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Martinelli can reach Son Heung Min's standards. Arsenal needs to be sensible and starts playing him more.
 

SilentWitness

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I have a hard time seeing that. They're basically the same age and Foden is miles above Greenwood at the moment. Of course, Pep helped him improve but there's a long way to go for Greenwood to claim this status.
He's miles ahead in current ability because he's been managed well, simple as. Their level of talent though is quite comparable. Greenwood needs a manager to trust and play him as he needs to be ala Guardiola has with Foden and his talent will shine.
 

AshRK

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Greenwood has been consistently playing and scoring while Martinelli was rotting in bench. Suddenly he has one good month and he is again better than Greenwood.
 

Righteous Steps

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He's miles ahead in current ability because he's been managed well, simple as. Their level of talent though is quite comparable. Greenwood needs a manager to trust and play him as he needs to be ala Guardiola has with Foden and his talent will shine.
That’s true but why is Martinelli so far away from that level? Did you see his performance against City, him and Saka singlehandedly destroyed their opposition full backs and gave the impetus for probably the best oppositiom performances against City this season, there was one particular moment where Martinelli picked up the ball from about 40-50 yards and literally ripped through the city team by himself, I would find it hard to argue that Greenwood is a level above him.

Would argue Foden is quite easily the most promising talent out of all the young players in the league, then Greenwood Saka MartinellI would be the group of players on the level below.
 

SilentWitness

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That’s true but why is Martinelli so far away from that level? Did you see his performance against City, him and Saka singlehandedly destroyed their opposition full backs and gave the impetus for probably the best oppositiom performances against City this season, there was one particular moment where Martinelli picked up the ball from about 40-50 yards and literally ripped through the city team by himself, I would find it hard to argue that Greenwood is a level above him.
I don't think he's far away from the level. I'd put him at the level below Greenwood and Foden. They have that special something where they're a young player but they instantly have an attribute that is at a world class level - Greenwoods finishing ability / Fodens composure.
 

GoonerBear

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I don't think anyone can argue at all with Greenwood's talent. His ball striking and finishing are brilliant.

My main concern with him, is his pathway / opportunity.

When you look at Martinelli now, a massive pathway has opened up for him now at Arsenal on the left wing spot, which is his favoured position, and he now has the opportunity with Aubameyang leaving to make that position his own.

Will Greenwood have that opportunity to do so likewise in his favoured position? Or will he become that hybrid player like Rashford, who seems like he's not really a left winger nor a striker? That's my main concern with him.
 

Nish115

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Greenwood has been consistently playing and scoring while Martinelli was rotting in bench. Suddenly he has one good month and he is again better than Greenwood.
Martinelli was coming back from a long term injury, and it was quite clear when he came back he was still weak from it. He didn't have the pace, and everytime he got tackled he looked like he could get injured. So Arteta took him out the side, and I imagine worked in training on this.

He has come back just as quick as before his injury, and looking a lot more robust and bigger in frame. Had nothing to do with rotting the bench, it was actual coaching to improve him. Greenwood seems to be having no coaching and just left to do what he can.

In terms of consistently scoring:

Greenwood - 46 goals/assists in 7227 minutes, every 157 minutes.
Martinelli - 25 goals/assists in 3234 minutes, every 129 minutes.

Obviously varying sample sizes, but when Martinelli plays, he's quite consistent. But like I said, Greenwood on a talent level has some very good attributes, but there's only so much time you can give him to keep saying he's levels above Martinelli. For now, he isn't on the level of Foden. He has the potential to be but isn't showing it.
 
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SilentWitness

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I don't think anyone can argue at all with Greenwood's talent. His ball striking and finishing are brilliant.

My main concern with him, is his pathway / opportunity.

When you look at Martinelli now, a massive pathway has opened up for him now at Arsenal on the left wing spot, which is his favoured position, and he now has the opportunity with Aubameyang leaving to make that position his own.

Will Greenwood have that opportunity to do so likewise in his favoured position? Or will he become that hybrid player like Rashford, who seems like he's not really a left winger nor a striker? That's my main concern with him.
I think this is a fair assessment.
 

AltiUn

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I'd rather be Martinelli than Greenwood over the next 18 months or so (or however long Ronaldos contact has left)
Absolutely.

Reading this thread infuriates me, because it shows how fecking poorly we've managed Greenwood. We might not get an academy graduate as talented for another 20 years. We're so bad at developing talent in the modern era, Rashford, Martial and now Greenwood have all stagnated while playing for us.
 

BurgerVan

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I hate these comparison threads.

Both are clearly exciting and very talented. Martinelli is in good form, but a bit fragile which could be his undoing. Greenwood, a wonderful player but in a bit of a slump, but so are Utd (in terms of performances).

You could bump this thread 20 times over the next few years, as there will be peaks and troughs for both of them, which is natural.
 

Giggsy13

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Absolutely.

Reading this thread infuriates me, because it shows how fecking poorly we've managed Greenwood. We might not get an academy graduate as talented for another 20 years. We're so bad at developing talent in the modern era, Rashford, Martial and now Greenwood have all stagnated while playing for us.
Mismanaged but that could quickly change with a good new manager in charge with a long term vision. Rashford and Greenwood deserve more time and will get it. Martial is a lost cause.
 

Oly Francis

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He's miles ahead in current ability because he's been managed well, simple as. Their level of talent though is quite comparable. Greenwood needs a manager to trust and play him as he needs to be ala Guardiola has with Foden and his talent will shine.
It's rarely that simple, of course talent is important but it'll also depend on his ability to absorb what he's taught even with a good manager. He's over 20 now, at one point he'll need to show consistency on the pitch, the promise of a bright future will mean less and less as he ages. Lets hope he evolves like Foden and not like Dele Alli, Walcott etc.
 

GoonerBear

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Where will Greenwood settle, Right Wing or Center Forward?
 

cyberman

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It's rarely that simple, of course talent is important but it'll also depend on his ability to absorb what he's taught even with a good manager. He's over 20 now, at one point he'll need to show consistency on the pitch, the promise of a bright future will mean less and less as he ages. Lets hope he evolves like Foden and not like Dele Alli, Walcott etc.
Greenwood literally just turned 20!
 

Oly Francis

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Greenwood literally just turned 20!
That makes him over 20 doesn't it? He's still very young don't get me wrong but he reaches the age when promises of talent will have to translate on the pitch. I've been reading everywhere on the caf that he's a future superstar, a gem etc. but he isn't a starter in a pretty average united team when Foden starts in one of the strongest team in the world (and i'm not even comparing him to what Haaland or Mbappé achieved at his age). Rashford was also a guaranteed superstar for a lot of people here and we can't really say that's how it's going.
 

cyberman

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That makes him over 20 doesn't it? He's still very young don't get me wrong but he reaches the age when promises of talent will have to translate on the pitch. I've been reading everywhere on the caf that he's a future superstar, a gem etc. but he isn't a starter in a pretty average united team when Foden starts in one of the strongest team in the world (and i'm not even comparing him to what Haaland or Mbappé achieved at his age). Rashford was also a guaranteed superstar for a lot of people here and we can't really say that's how it's going.
I dunno, recently turning 20 is outrageously young imo. What he has already done is a fantastic achievement for his age. 34 goals and 12 assists are great numbers.
 

Oly Francis

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I dunno, recently turning 20 is outrageously young imo. What he has already done is a fantastic achievement for his age. 34 goals and 12 assists are great numbers.
That is really good, but Rashford had similar stats at 20, it's not a guarantee of anything.
 

cyberman

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That is really good, but Rashford had similar stats at 20, it's not a guarantee of anything.
Different types of player. Rashford was never a finisher.
Rashford isn’t even a bad player. He’s just going through a bad run of form alongside the team imo. His goal tally over the last few seasons is as good as any as an inside forward
 

DWelbz19

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I have a hard time seeing that. They're basically the same age and Foden is miles above Greenwood at the moment. Of course, Pep helped him improve but there's a long way to go for Greenwood to claim this status.
Their PL stats are pretty close considering Foden is the better player + plays for a much better side.

Foden: 81 apps; 20 goals; 11 assists
Greenwood: 80 apps: 21 goals; 4 assists
 

Oly Francis

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Their PL stats are pretty close considering Foden is the better player + plays for a much better side.

Foden: 81 apps; 20 goals; 11 assists
Greenwood: 80 apps: 21 goals; 4 assists
Foden is vastly (that's an understastement) superior on the ball though. He regularly plays in the midfield.
 

passing-wind

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That makes him over 20 doesn't it? He's still very young don't get me wrong but he reaches the age when promises of talent will have to translate on the pitch. I've been reading everywhere on the caf that he's a future superstar, a gem etc. but he isn't a starter in a pretty average united team when Foden starts in one of the strongest team in the world (and i'm not even comparing him to what Haaland or Mbappé achieved at his age). Rashford was also a guaranteed superstar for a lot of people here and we can't really say that's how it's going.
This is a ridiculous post, how many players have it all together at the age of 20 ? There's interviews with footballers / past legends (great insight from Glenn Hoddle) of the game speaking about their process of peaking which naturally occurs in later stages of their careers, where through experience they begin to understand the game of football which helps them evolve in their influence.
 

AltiUn

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Foden is vastly (that's an understastement) superior on the ball though. He regularly plays in the midfield.
It’s probably the biggest overstatement I’ve ever read. I think you’ve just assumed he’s better on the ball because he’s a midfielder. Foden might be better on the ball but there’s little between them.
 

passing-wind

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Foden is a starter and Greenwood isn’t a starter.

**checks notes**

Yep, Greenwood has played more. Ok.
Honestly some of the nonsense in these types of threads. I'm very cautious concerning rating Greenwood as often many United players are over-hyped.

Foden is in no wise a guaranteed member of the first 11 for city as some posters are suggesting. He's been managed well from the extent he's learning from the best manager of this current era but I remember hearing countless city fans the last two years saying he's been underused.
 

Oly Francis

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This is a ridiculous post, how many players have it all together at the age of 20 ? There's interviews with footballers / past legends (great insight from Glenn Hoddle) of the game speaking about their process of peaking which naturally occurs in later stages of their careers, where through experience they begin to understand the game of football which helps them evolve in their influence.
You're totally missing he point. Players obviously don't peak a 20, but saying Foden and Greenwood have the same level of talent when one is a starter in a top4 european team and the other in the rotation at united is, as of right now, wishful thinking. Greenwood shows talent for sure but there's absolutely no guarantee he'll be an elite player when Foden isn't far from being one. Maybe he will under the right manager, maybe he won't.

It’s probably the biggest overstatement I’ve ever read. I think you’ve just assumed he’s better on the ball because he’s a midfielder. Foden might be better on the ball but there’s little between them.
You can't be serious. Foden is a far more versatile player, his passing and composure is way better than Greenwood's while having comparable stats. Greenwood is a better finisher and also faster but that's pretty much it.
 

AltiUn

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You're totally missing he point. Players obviously don't peak a 20, but saying Foden and Greenwood have the same level of talent when one is a starter in a top4 european team and the other in the rotation at united is, as of right now, wishful thinking. Greenwood shows talent for sure but there's absolutely no guarantee he'll be an elite player when Foden isn't far from being one. Maybe he will under the right manager, maybe he won't.



You can't be serious. Foden is a far more versatile player, his passing and composure is way better than Greenwood's while having comparable stats. Greenwood is a better finisher and also faster but that's pretty much it.
Greenwood’s long passing is miles better than Foden’s. He’s also a better crosser when he does actually decide to cross it. Foden’s got better balance, is a better short passer and a better dribbler. Have you ever actually watched them play? :lol: I’m starting to suspect you haven’t, at least not enough to speak with such baseless confidence about it.
 

passing-wind

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You're totally missing he point. Players obviously don't peak a 20, but saying Foden and Greenwood have the same level of talent when one is a starter in a top4 european team and the other in the rotation at united is, as of right now, wishful thinking. Greenwood shows talent for sure but there's absolutely no guarantee he'll be an elite player when Foden isn't far from being one. Maybe he will under the right manager, maybe he won't.



You can't be serious. Foden is a far more versatile player, his passing and composure is way better than Greenwood's while having comparable stats. Greenwood is a better finisher and also faster but that's pretty much it.
This is nonsense Foden is not an out and out starter for City his total output of games confirms this ? He is not as instrumental to City as you are describing him. Phil is doing well playing within the peripheral of a strong City team. Peripheral and focal point are two different things. He cannot be considered elite as you have described him until he's the latter.
 

Powderfinger

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Both are top talents, but both have a lot of rough edges to figure out if they are going to really become top players.

Greenwood has elite ball striking ability and has the potential to be a really top level finisher in general. But he really needs to improve in a number of other areas if he is going to reach the top (like top 5-10 player in the PL). His decision making with the ball is often poor, he doesn't weight passes very well, and I think his overall tactical maturity is kind of questionable, although that's more a function of the coaching he has received than some kind of innate problem.

Martinelli is a relentless runner, both in and out of possession, has a great instinct for getting into dangerous attacking positions to get off shots or play the final ball to somebody else, and enough technical ability to make it count when he gets there. By every account, he also has an absolutely elite mentality in terms of how he trains, how he takes to coaching, and obviously workrate on the pitch. But he really needs to work on playing the game at different speeds (he is like 100 mph all the time, which is a little predictable), he needs to improve his ability to receive and hold the ball in tight spaces, and while he has good technical ability its maybe not quite the technical level that you would usually see from a truly top player.

If I'm being honest, neither one is at the level of the very best 20 year old forwards we've seen in the PL in the last 10 years or so, which I would say have been Hazard, Sterling, and Foden. Greenwood is probably closer, but he has also played a lot more than Martinelli. Both could reach that level but both are simply bit less refined and have more to work on than those players at similar age.
 
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El-Manos

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I don't think anyone can argue at all with Greenwood's talent. His ball striking and finishing are brilliant.

My main concern with him, is his pathway / opportunity.

When you look at Martinelli now, a massive pathway has opened up for him now at Arsenal on the left wing spot, which is his favoured position, and he now has the opportunity with Aubameyang leaving to make that position his own.

Will Greenwood have that opportunity to do so likewise in his favoured position? Or will he become that hybrid player like Rashford, who seems like he's not really a left winger nor a striker? That's my main concern with him.
Good post
 

AltiUn

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Martinelli wins December PL Player of the Month. I still can't believe Man Utd rejected him.
Yeah but we rejected him for Greenwood, who's still very good and going through a bad run of form.
 

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Greenwood will not reach his potential here. He's a Man United boy and I am sure he wants to succeed here and win all trophies.

If he and his entourage are wise, he'll opt for a move though. This club is a complete mess in developing players, and are miles away from winning titles.

Martinelli is currently playing a lot better football, but the comparison is unfair. Arsenal play much better football than United currently.
 

ThierryHenry14

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Greenwood will not reach his potential here. He's a Man United boy and I am sure he wants to succeed here and win all trophies.

If he and his entourage are wise, he'll opt for a move though. This club is a complete mess in developing players, and are miles away from winning titles.

Martinelli is currently playing a lot better football, but the comparison is unfair. Arsenal play much better football than United currently.
It is extremely hard to say no to the pay cheque in Man Utd until you are 26 and 27 like Martial and Lingaard. Greenwood get lots of playing time in Man Utd for the past 2 years so he won't go anywhere.