This guy's going to be a pub quiz question until about 2100.
Guillermo Varela
- Thread starter Ringo 07
- Start date
So he was inspired by Elton John? He's going to be amazing
The reactions to Bolingbroke in this thread. 
He has the making of a **** hero, hope to see more of him.
He has the making of a **** hero, hope to see more of him.
It's not OK, it's just something not to be followed up on beyond the 90 minutes. No one takes umbrage because it is to be expected that people will resort to anything.
The logic is very simple. If you are an attackig player the best way to respond is to score, if you are a defender the best you can do to upset Suárez is to stop him scoring. Then there's all sorts of kicks, nudges and your own wind ups. Ultimately though, all that people care about is winning.
It's shit if you are a mediocre player in a mediocre team playing against the best, but those rarely get much stick because they will be beaten anyway. It is rare for a much superior player to wind up a much inferior one, that is frowned upon. THAT is considered being a cock more than being uber nasty in your windups at a similar level player. If anything, the wind up attempts must be considered an indication of respect/fear.
I disagree with that last bit. We are not keen on serial diving and other forms of outright cheating, but we do very much appreciate the psychological factor. I certainly don't think football is just about ability and tactics but character. People who get easily wound-up are quite rightly "inferior" or less complete players in my view. I understand the sensitivities around race, but your Materazzi example is awful. Materazzi did nowt wrong and Zidane only has himself to blame. I wouldn't have it any other way.
Saurez's antics have shown that he's clearly gone past the psychological factor though.
I do agree and people here do as well by now, if only because his antics have gone so far they are now not helping his side WIN. So from a principled or pragmatic point of view he has gone too far.
I'm explaining how the "what happens on the pitch stays on the pitch" commandment influenced views on the subject. Back when the whole Evra thing happened, with the media reporting Evra had accused him, then that Evra himself had called him sudaca (South American wetshirt basically)... You can see why the entire country all the way to the President galvanised around him. Racism seemed to have little to do with it and was interpreted more as an excuse, and Evra as the villain who new how to play things to screw up poor innocent Luis who had just arrived in a new country.
All bullshit of course, but there was a sound foundation to build it on: what happens on the pitch stays on the pitch.
Correct me if I'm wrong but after spending six weeks in Brazil I start to realize that more or less nobody in that country have any belief in the police force, or trust in the legal system. Wealth and the right contacts are more important then the truth. Corruption is everywhere and with that in mind very few don't even see the court house or the police as an option. To give an example. In the supermarket you see more security guards then cashiers, in the bank you have armed guards and security doors and in the busses you have to pay in advance just to enter. My impression was that trust and loyalty was low priorities, apart from support your family, and it was common to expect authority's, politicians, police, legal system and so on to be corrupt.
With that in mind I totally understand the concept of "what happens on the pitch stays on the pitch". Antohan have on a pedagogic way explained his country's way of logic and its easy to sympathy with this when you know where people in that part of the world come from.
Where I come from we trust in authority's. Our country is built on law and order and people in general trust each other and trust the system. To put it simple. More or less everybody is innocent until otherwise is proved. Unfortunately our un restricted immigration is starting to change this a little bit, just to be clear no offense against the immigrants but we are probably paying the price for mixing up cultures, religions and different attitudes a little bit to fast.
My experience regarding legal things is that the truth is not the most important thing in a conflict, it's reputation and how you present your case. Suarez started a conflict without knowing the written and the un written rules in his new country and his club and supporters didn't help him one bit. In fact the opposite.
To boild it down to a consensus I think the old "when in Rome, do as the Romans" must be the guideline. Probably Suarez was to lazy or to spoilt to accept or to understand this concept. This was the second time he challanged authority's with other back ground then him self, the first time he didn't take notice. His arrogant behavior and by not adapting fast enough to his new country worked against him again and when he faced his second serious conflict he paid the price. Lesson learned? Probably not. And now he continue to blame everybody else except himselfe. And his country men do nothing to help him. (not you Antohan)
Thanks for explaining that so clearly mate. Cannt say I agree.....but I can certainly see where you are coming from
If he starts talking about playing Fabio in midfield and Anderson at left back, we'll all be in trouble.
Lets call off extra practice after training then!
Moyes out, Bolingbroke in.
from the os for those who haven't seen it.
Gill not being in these photos is going to be really weird for a while.
I already prefer the new guy.
Sounds to me like a marketing ploy.
Thanks for that as you add a perspective I wasn't quite arriving at. That's precisely it, everyday life is survival of the fittest, each man is on his own, etc. and only family is the established institution where loyalty, support, and respect for authority/elders are the norm. That and your football club and national team colours. Everything else, you are on your own...
And yes, that reality and approach to things is translated onto the football pitch but rather than being the torture some interpret this potential insults as, it is a liberating experience. Social extraction, race, education, who you know... it all goes out of the window, it's a contest of skill and strength and determination and all the bullshit people put up with in the outside world evaporates for 90 magical minutes.
People couldn't care less what names they are called or what may be said about their wife/sister because, frankly, whatever they get on the pitch is better treatment than the one they get from their environment in their everyday lives.
Thanks mate, yes, we cracked the whole explanation thing.
See above. It's not about agreeing, they are different cups of tea. I can't help but feel any of the old timers here who can remember European football in the 70s would empathise a lot more with the "happens on the pitch stays on the pitch stuff".Thanks for explaining that so clearly mate. Cannt say I agree.....but I can certainly see where you are coming from
I'm quite positive it used to be a universal rule which started subsiding as so much money came into football, and TV, and then expectations of players as role models... It's the widespread interest (consumers) and availabiity of a lot more and more detailed footage (Sky/PL era) which turned the dissection of every single incident on a pitch into national news and ongoing discussion topics. Before it was largely the people at the stadium who argued and most had different opinions as they were drunk, couldn't see shit from their part of the stadium, and didn't get replays (yes they had MOTD later, but not with the number of angles and technology available today).
It's still like that here. It's an entirely different sport and football culture around it, let alone the socio-economic reality and culture it is immersed in, as discussed above. Apples and pears, there's nothing to "agree", just different perspectives.
Why do you think John Barnes and other black players didn't say shit about their abuse? Different times and there was very little support in coming out about racism. What could they do? Thankfully, Barnes never let it get to him. Unfortunately, I cannot say the same for the others but it was pretty hostile back then. The National Front are analogous to what the EDL are today.
I empathise with the notion except for race. I don't care what cultural perspective you come from. You need to understand it's not tolerated. I saw what you wrote antohan and it's very good but I make no exceptions for race. The "what happens on the pitch stays on the pitch" mainly came from the heated exchanges between players just having a go at each other on the pitch. Once you left the pitch, it was simply forgotten/not talked about. Any attempt to incite was recognised as "all a part of the game". You had to show you were tough so you just got on with it.
I understand mate, I do think it is a significantly more sensitive subject back in the UK. I'm not saying racism is not an issue here, but there are other bigger social problems and stigmas than race. I know it was bandied about during the Suárez affair and it's no excuse, but this is a largely mixed race country, most of South America has varying degrees of black/white/native indian, discrimination is usually more about regional/nationalistic stuff and social extraction, not ethnicity. Let's put it this way, someone here would have a bigger problem with being picked on for the area they come from (e.g. scouser, manc, etc.) than skin colour. Again, no excuse, but the level of sensitivity is drastically lower.
Who the hell is that?
I don't know why it came off as such a shock seeing that.
There's something about that picture that is fecking weird.Very understandable. So much of it is relative to your upbringing and environment.
I'd do well in Uruguayan footie. I'd just bring my nunchucks.
I should thank you because we need perspective regarding issues like this. Sorry for more OT but I should just add one more thing because I think it's important to be as objective as possible when we judge someone's character.
First. Lets make the bottom line clear. Suarez did wrong to use racial slurs, especially as a high profile player playing in the PL. He got his punishment and that's the end of this matter. But..... and this is the important part.... he's also a victim. I feel sorry for him because for whatever reasons he didn't understood the seriousness in his actions. He's not innocent but he's also a brick in something else, something that is bigger and far more important then his failure. I think his punishment was to hard. He got eight games when JT got four. That's an insult to people's belief in the legal system. One of them was calculating and deliberty mean, the other one was competitive and naive. You judge by yourself and make or own conclusions.
A better punishment for Suarez would have been thre games ban and 40 hours social service. Talking to kids about responsibility and your duty to serve as a good example.
Second. In my book I blame Kenny Dalglish for the majority of this fiasco. He failed in so many levels. He didn't educate his foreign players enough about English culture, this incident tells us all we want to know about the level of Suarez knowledge of western mentality. His first reaction was to lie, hide and deny. He put his staff and players in a impossible situation by creating a we against them mentality in a case that was lost from the first second. KK was God inside the club and among the supporters and he let them all down. Afterward he paid the price, but then it was to late.
Third. LFC, such a big and honorable club and so little currage. It's beyon my mind that nobody in this big institution could see what was right or wrong. A whole collective collaps in common sense. In the end the owners put the clock right but wow, what a gigantic failure from so many important figures.
In the middle of this was a succefull but naive player, maybe not the most intelligent guy in the world, and with all this maniac actions (t-shirt fiasco) he started to believ in the surrealistic hype that he was more or less innocent.
I don't blame Suarez so much, I blame people around him, including many of his country men. In Uruguaye we play their game, and off course in England good old Britania rules. How hard can it be to understand this?
7even that's a load of crap.
I don't buy the 'Suarez victim' nonsense nor the fact that he apparently did not know the seriousness of his actions. He spent 5 years in Europe before his move to Liverpool, more than enough time to know that Racism is not tolerated. He knew what he was doing when he used the racial slur.
Your post wouldn't look out of place on RAWK. Blaming everyone from the FA to his Uruguayan countrymen but Luis fecking Suarez
I don't buy the 'Suarez victim' nonsense nor the fact that he apparently did not know the seriousness of his actions. He spent 5 years in Europe before his move to Liverpool, more than enough time to know that Racism is not tolerated. He knew what he was doing when he used the racial slur.
Your post wouldn't look out of place on RAWK. Blaming everyone from the FA to his Uruguayan countrymen but Luis fecking Suarez
This line excites me.
Although Gabby turned out to be a massive cock biscuit he was a great full back and had a fantastic aggressive attitude to defending. For tighter games where we need a less attacking fullback this lad could turn out to be a superb option if he gets anywhere near that level. Looking forward to getting to see a lot more of him.
I don't expect every one to agree or understand but comparing this to RAWK makes me curious about your exprience regarding culture difference. Going to South America is expensive and not everybody have done this, but if you are going to judge a persons character it helps to see and know where he comes from. Suarez is no saint but he's like evrybody else a product of his enviroment. You can find immigrants who have lived in my country for 10-20 years and still doesn't talk and understand our way of living. For different reasons we adapt or not and to be honest I think a lot of latin players find our lifestyle so different from what they are used too that they prefere to stay out of it.
Young modern players like DDG and others talk English, use internet to know what's happen in the world and are curious about things around them, others are more conservative and minimize outside visits. Just different approach to life.
I hope our new young latin players like Varela is more open minded and tries to adapt to English lifestyle, it helps. That's why we shouldn't blame young players who are active and have a rich social life, maybe a night in the night club give us more in the long run then sitting alone at home.
I would call those people lazy.
Suarez lived in Europe for five years before he moved to England. Five years is more than enough time to know that racism is not tolerated in Europe (and most places for that matter). If in five years he could not figure out that the word he used would be offensive to black people then the only person he can blame is himself.
Your excuse of him being a victim might have been valid had he arrived directly from Uruguay, but he didn't.
Suarez is a proper cock & always has been. The ironic thing now is, the red Scousers are all singing the same song everyone else has been singin & we were the blind cretins - u couldnt make it up - its hilarious altogether
It's still valid. It's just not sound and that's what you're arguing.
Good post man & pretty feckin shite those words need to be said again!
Suarez said that shite to get at Evra, thats something i can never work out what scousers were goin on about regardin the meaning - u dont say nice things to someone ur in an argument with ffs...
I'm busy cutting the relevant clips of his performance yesterday. So far so good, apart from the occasion where he let his man get past him easily, which I have included. Match compilation will be up today, hopefully. On a positive note, his speed is immense.
Faster than Rafael?
I can help you there. It is the disparity in head size.I don't know why it came off as such a shock seeing that.
nice. want to see him in action.
Not sure. I'll need another look. Another thing I have noticed: he's very good at long throws.
Sign Fellaini. Quick.
Nice one. He had a good game. I hope you'll be doing these for the rest of his games too.
About the same, I guess.
I got a lot of things to do. My leg was in pain after football yesterday, so that's why this is delayed.
Varela had a good game. What I noticed is that he is pretty good when defending one-on-one, as you'll see when viewing this video. The instructions were for him to act as a right winger when Uruguay had the ball, in a Dani Alves manner, which he did do well IMO, but he wasn't supplied enough with the ball. His overlapping runs are good and his pace is immense, he might be faster than Rafael, but I'm no good at telling how fast he is from one game. His crosses were decent and, for someone his height, he's good in the air. As I previously mentioned, the worrying thing was how one of Croatia's U20s players got past him easily. Overall, he had a decent first half and an even better second half, where he was very dominant. This guy can potentially make it at Manchester United.
Varela had a good game. What I noticed is that he is pretty good when defending one-on-one, as you'll see when viewing this video. The instructions were for him to act as a right winger when Uruguay had the ball, in a Dani Alves manner, which he did do well IMO, but he wasn't supplied enough with the ball. His overlapping runs are good and his pace is immense, he might be faster than Rafael, but I'm no good at telling how fast he is from one game. His crosses were decent and, for someone his height, he's good in the air. As I previously mentioned, the worrying thing was how one of Croatia's U20s players got past him easily. Overall, he had a decent first half and an even better second half, where he was very dominant. This guy can potentially make it at Manchester United.