Hargreaves vs. Carrick, Feadingseagulls vs. Noodle, Chief (Bayern Fan!) vs. Logic

[Nucks]

Anderson had a broken leg as well with Porto last season, in fact he missed the majority of the last season exactly because of that. He hasn't had a problem settling in or being actually quite good for the team, has he?

You don't miss much do you. I am pretty sure I clearly pointed out that different players have different mentalities. Some people will be more bothered by injuries than others. Please reread and quote me with that part bolded just to show how clever you are.

Hargreaves also rushed back too soon and ended up with injuries resulting from coming back too soon.

If I am not mistaken Anderson smartly sat the rest of his season in an effort to rehab properly.

 

[Instant Karma]

... look at how spurs dipped and we peaked after the transfer ...

Spurs dipped from 5th the season before to 5th in the league last season?

Carrick was dire in the cups when Spurs were eliminated in the first round of FA and League cups by second division sides. It was the shortest season ever played by an Premiership team.

Without Carrick, they still finished 5th in the league, reached the semi-finals and quarter finals of the domestic cups. They also had a good run in the UEFA cup. Their performance peaked after they sold Carrick.

He is a mediocre midfielder who was shown up by semi professional footballers in the domestic cups when he played for Spurs. He was carried by a fantastic team to the title last season.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Different player? This isn't Bramble vs Zidane all over again..

Ofcourse it isn't. Hargreaves is a true defensive (inot a Makelele) while Carrick is a deep lying play maker. Play them in the same position holding midfield and Hargreaves is far superior. Which says it all. Carrick can not be better. But this must be too hard for you to comprehend

 

[reddevilcanada]

You have to remember Anderson is God

aye, that's the only explanation for his magical healing powers after breaking his leg so bad

 

[Nucks]

wouldn't be surprised if he's a relative of 'hargo' tbh

Hilarious, defending the kid from irrational attacks by people who lack any sort of reasoning and I am related to him.

Seriously I am LAWLing irl.

 

[M160RA]

Spurs dipped from 5th the season before to 5th in the league last season?

Carrick was dire in the cups when Spurs were eliminated in the first round of FA and League cups by second division sides. It was the shortest season ever played by an Premiership team.

Without Carrick, they still finished 5th in the league, reached the semi-finals and quarter finals of the domestic cups. They also had a good run in the UEFA cup. Their performance peaked after they sold Carrick.

He is a mediocre midfielder who was carried by a fantastic team to the title last season.

It's ridiculous to compare Spurs before and after Carrick left, because a lot of other things changed as well.

Carrick is an excellent midfielder, and evidently vastly underrated by some.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

.......look at how spurs dipped and we peaked after the transfer ...

Meanwhile we were shit away from home in Europe while Spurs had a far better season overall than when he shielded their defence.

 

[RedSky]

We were very dominant with possesion. And had 3 clear chances that should have been goals. 2 others which were an offside goal and the equaliser. They scored from a momment of magic. Threatening with onyl half chances. This was a side that was at home and playing well. Yet we were far better than them. In a big game.

Anyone thinking we should have had many more chances like we had at home last Saturday is just deluded really. That was never going to happen.

3 clear cut chances??? Rooney in the first half 1 on 1 with the keeper is the only clear cut chance we had. Even the goal was pretty fortunate as it rebounded off a Lyon defender albeit from a terrific cross from Nani.

We were toothless tonight. Our setpieces were awful and we played with 1 isolated striker for over an hour. Yes we dominated the possession, but it was in harmless areas.

 

[ILBB15]

Why has the Sweeper position been completely erased from football? Obviously it's very hard to find good sweepers but if you want to have a player specialized in defending and also being able to bring up the ball in counterattacks and score goals a Sweeper is the perfect thing. This position needs to be introduced again IMO. I just looked at Lothar Matthäus and Ronald Koemans stats, Matthäus scored like 40 goals in 115 domestic games for Inter and Koemans scored 51 goals in 98 for PSV and then 67 goals for Barcelona. Incredible stats. The DM position has been blown out of proportion because of Makaleles brilliance.

 

[reddevilcanada]

You don't miss much do you. I am pretty sure I clearly pointed out that different players have different mentalities. Some people will be more bothered by injuries than others. Please reread and quote me with that part bolded just to show how clever you are.

Hargreaves also rushed back too soon and ended up with injuries resulting from coming back too soon.

If I am not mistaken Anderson smartly sat the rest of his season in an effort to rehab properly.

So now, breaking your leg isn't the main issue, it's now the mentalities of the players

hargreaves was rushed back so had more injures? explains his whole career tbh

Anderson was actually in the copa america squad for Brazil while hargo was having his rehabilitation process going in the summer

 

[moses]

It would be great to have complete players for every position on the pitch, but it's unrealistic. So we have to settle for a top class winger who scores plenty of goals, but less likely to track back. We have to settle for two brilliant albeit diminutive forwards who don't offer much aerial threat. A rightback who's a good defender, but poor going forward, etc...

Hargreaves had an okay game, and he could've done better. Fair enough. But to say that he's a waste of money based on his first Champions League start is over the top. Give him a chance, ffs.

give him a chance , it's three months to trophy time, away legs in europe were supposed to be his raison d'etre ... as i've said before if he was replaced by nani i'd agree with you totally , but it was like for like, except Carrick can play football and create chances ... we are Manchester United for gods sake ... it's not like I want a goalie scoring 20 a season but to expect a central midfielder to be able to sit back and orchestrate getting a one goal deficit back is surely not asking too much at this level ?

gattuso is the only other top class midfielder I can think of this applying to also

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Wouldn't even be first choice at Liverpool. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement of him is it!

Fact is, Makelele should collar the blame. Ever since he came on the scene, everyone has gone "holding midfield" crazy.

I take it you never saw Rijkaard play or new what he was either

 

[reddevilcanada]

Hilarious, defending the kid from irrational attacks by people who lack any sort of reasoning and I am related to him.

Seriously I am LAWLing irl.

you're definitely his mom

 

[REd FUn DevIl]

He was shit, again

Always running behind the play. Almost always in the wrong place.

20 million pounds to repeatedly punch yourself in the face

Hahaha and what was Scholes? if he was shite then define scholes you wise man.

Your hatred on him is ridiculous. Talk some sense ffs. Pathetic

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

It's ridiculous to compare Spurs before and after Carrick left, because a lot of other things changed as well.

............

Why? You wanted to claim Spurs were so much worse off without him?

 

[RedSky]

Hahaha and what was Scholes? if he was shite then define scholes you wise man.

Your hatred on him is ridiculous. Talk some sense ffs. Pathetic

Don't even try and compare Scholes with Hargreaves. Pathertic.

 

[moses]

Spurs dipped from 5th the season before to 5th in the league last season?

Carrick was dire in the cups when Spurs were eliminated in the first round of FA and League cups by second division sides. It was the shortest season ever played by an Premiership team.

Without Carrick, they still finished 5th in the league, reached the semi-finals and quarter finals of the domestic cups. They also had a good run in the UEFA cup. Their performance peaked after they sold Carrick.

He is a mediocre midfielder who was shown up by semi professional footballers in the domestic cups when he played for Spurs. He was carried by a fantastic team to the title last season.

I think performance wise spurs were much more controlled with Carrick in the side

 

[AllhailManUtd]

hargreaves didnt do what he was bought for. He was absolute crap, fletcher should have been played. He may not be the most skilled player in the world but at least he does what hes supposed to do and he does it damn well.

 

[moses]

I take it you never saw Rijkaard play or new what he was either

I'm gald you brought Rijkaard up, bet he was never taken off when his team were chasing a one goal deficit , why , because he could play football too.

 

[Giggzinho]

only read the first page

heres what i got from the game in terms of hargreaves and brown

hargreaves - did well in breaking down the play, cant knock his defensive work and as he played as a DM, its hard to knock his performance in general BUT his passing was dodgy at times and he seems to take an eternity to turn on the ball and makes his passes more defensive rather than attacking

brown - again did well in his defensive role BUT we miss nevilles passing so much, brown has his games where he makes assissts and decent passes but in general he seems lost with the ball and his crossing is nowhere near that of nevilles

teves - saviour

 

[M160RA]

give him a chance , it's three months to trophy time, away legs in europe were supposed to be his raison d'etre ...

Eh? This was his first start in a European away game.

as i've said before if he was replaced by nani i'd agree with you totally , but it was like for like, except Carrick can play football and create chances ...

Carrick and Hargreaves are very different players. One's a deep-lying playmaker whereas the other is a defensive midfielder.

we are Manchester United for gods sake ... it's not like I want a goalie scoring 20 a season but to expect a central midfielder to be able to sit back and orchestrate getting a one goal deficit back is surely not asking too much at this level ?

Hargreaves' limited passing ability is not ideal, but give him time to be able to do what he does best. Like I said, it's unrealistic to expect complete players in every position. It's not like Hargreaves is the first player in United history to be more of a defensive midfielder than a playmaker.

 

[Sultan]

only read the first page

heres what i got from the game in terms of hargreaves and brown

hargreaves - did well in breaking down the play, cant knock his defensive work and as he played as a DM, its hard to knock his performance in general BUT his passing was dodgy at times and he seems to take an eternity to turn on the ball and makes his passes more defensive rather than attacking

brown - again did well in his defensive role BUT we miss nevilles passing so much, brown has his games where he makes assissts and decent passes but in general he seems lost with the ball and his crossing is nowhere near that of nevilles

teves - saviour

You need to read some of your cousins posts in this thread - class.

Slacker

 

[REd FUn DevIl]

Don't even try and compare Scholes with Hargreaves. Pathertic.

Isnt ridiculous when you talk about performance today. We are not talking about who is better. He did almoust nothing in creation and thats why he was subbed, the same goes to Giggs and Hargreaves was off also cause we needed Carrick in creation.

 

[M160RA]

Why? You wanted to claim Spurs were so much worse off without him?

Huh? I'm claiming that you can't judge a player's importance to a team when all other things aren't held equal.

 

[IhabX7]

He was shit, again

Always running behind the play. Almost always in the wrong place.

20 million pounds to repeatedly punch yourself in the face

He needs way too much time to understand what he is going to next, about four or five touches to release a pass. I really don't like what I've seen of him so far, he slows us down too much, the opposite of Carrick.

Rooney's 1 on 1, and finishing in general has been poor for two seasons. He should sort it out. While we're at it, Saha should as well.

Scholes and Giggs.. Giggs started brightly, some neat touches. But after we conceded he was absolutely terrible, just getting rid of the ball. Scholes is alright. Both aren't what they used to be, but we can't come to expect that, but we can come to expect that they stop being automatic choices. Surprise your fecking opponents with new tricks Sir Alex. Im talking about Nani in particular. This lad is so unpredictable, it looks very hard to defend against him.

 

[thebelfastboy]

Hargreaves' limited passing ability is not ideal, but give him time to be able to do what he does best. .

just exactly what does he best then?, i want to know..............

 

[Giggzinho]

You need to read some of your cousins posts in this thread - class.

Slacker

i read his first, im sure my post mostly coincides with his view of hargreaves, does it not?!

 

[moses]

Carrick and Hargreaves are very different players. One's a deep-lying playmaker whereas the other is a defensive midfielder.



Hargreaves' limited passing ability is not ideal, but give him time to be able to do what he does best. Like I said, it's unrealistic to expect complete players in every position. It's not like Hargreaves is the first player in United history to be more of a defensive midfielder than a playmaker.

ok, then i don't think there's room for someone who's solely a defensive midfielder in our team. i don't like it and never will

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Why are you being such a condescending tosser? There's no need for the constant stream of 's..

Condecending because I'm laughing at a very stupid comment?

Juninho did nothing, because he is not actually that good. Certainly not to the extent that we should deploy a specialist anchor.

Bulshit. Juninho IS good. Teams like REAL have had night mares due to him. Hargreaves is the one who shut him off. It isn't hard to grasp. Just like it isn't hard to grasp that Carrick who couldn't a mere FC Compenhagen CM was nevr going to be that effective vs a Juninho.

Where were all the chances then?.

We had 5 clear chances. 2 Rooney wasted. One was saved from Carrick shot. the other two were scored by Tevez. On disallowed, one allowed. If you were expecting chances galore like we were at home you are really naive.

Face it, we had the one Rooney chance. Coupet makes a brave stop. There were not that many chances and I certainly would not complain that we were profligate in front of goal.

You don't get numerous chances in Europe away from home vs quality opposition.

Copenhagen - did the whole team not play badly?. .... It was the midfield that was shocking that day

Celtic - dominated the game. Saha misses two guilt edged chances.
Nakamura scores a belter. Carrick's fault........You must have missed Vidic tracking player Carrick shoud ahve been with that caused the free kick


Lille - we won that game. Sell Carrick.........Won the game my arse. we fecking struggled in midfield in that game. Only Giggs' genius saved our arse.

 

[Sultan]

i read his first, im sure my post mostly coincides with his view of hargreaves, does it not?!

No!

He's got all intellectual.

Basically he thinks he's useless.

 

[Ballache]

Hargreaves did an excellent job today keeping Juninho out of the game, i mean what do people want??? players like Roy keane are hard to find. he had a good game IMO

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Next Roy Keane ? Everyone talks as if Roy Keane destroyed teams in Europe and helped us win several Champions league trophies.

He has the same number of CL medals as Hargreaves at the end of the day in spite of being a far superior player in a far superior team

Spot on.

 

[Sultan]

Juninho is nothing special...

 

[Giggzinho]

No!

He's got all intellectual.

Basically he thinks he's useless.

ok ive read the rest of his posts

from what i understand:

carrick > hargreaves

carrick better passer and compliments our style of play more than hargreaves

dont think there is much wrong in that, think hes quite right in what hes saying in the sense that if we want to attack a game play carrick and if we want to be stabilised or a game based around defending, then we should play hargreaves

i think fergy was right to start him today, his defensive play was good only his attacking play wasnt the best.

 

[Nucks]

So now, breaking your leg isn't the main issue, it's now the mentalities of the players

hargreaves was rushed back so had more injures? explains his whole career tbh

Anderson was actually in the copa america squad for Brazil while hargo was having his rehabilitation process going in the summer

Of course breaking your leg is the main issue. You can't just brace it and play through it. You can however rush back. Hargreaves broke his leg in Sept I believe? He came back in two-three months approximately.

Anderson broke his leg in October as well. He sat out till the end of the season I believe, making some sub appearances at the end (I think).

Hargreaves came back much sooner than that. It resulted in him not being fully recovered. The problems he had the rest of the year, through the summer and into the start of this season were directly attributable to him coming back early.

Ya, Anderson played was on the Copa America squad what 9 months after he broke his leg?

 

[Ekeke]

Juninho kept Juninho out of the game by playing far too deep. Hargreaves did okay but wasn't really tested by advancing runs from central midfield players. The only one doing that was Kallstrom and to be fair he did get on the end of a few things but he invariably made a pigs ear out of it.

Either way, the Brazilian played far too deep.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

Next Roy Keane ? Everyone talks as if Roy Keane destroyed teams in Europe and helped us win several Champions league trophies.

He has the same number of CL medals as Hargreaves at the end of the day in spite of being a far superior player in a far superior team

Don't always agree with you mate but top post and this is coming from one Keane's biggest fans. We need to move forward, not look back.

 

[GusHiddink]

Next Roy Keane ? Everyone talks as if Roy Keane destroyed teams in Europe and helped us win several Champions league trophies.

He has the same number of CL medals as Hargreaves at the end of the day in spite of being a far superior player in a far superior team

im not really sure what you're saying here. strange post

p.s. from keanes biggest fan

 

[thebelfastboy]

Hargreaves did an excellent job today keeping Juninho out of the game, i mean what do people want??? players like Roy keane are hard to find. he had a good game IMO

i dont think anyone expected another roy keane - but his ability tonight was shown up (against an average midfield).

 

[Ballache]

Juninho is nothing special...

he is their key player, Lyon didn't create any chances (thanks to hargreaves marking Juninho out of the game) and their goal was a mistake by our defenders i mean it was an excellent turn by Benzema but he was surounded with four players FFS.