Has political correctness actually gone mad?

[cafecillos]

Is that the kind of thing we're supposed to be ok with not to be labeled a SJW, snowflake, woke or whatever the new alt-right buzzword of the moment is?

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I’ve posted about Jimmy Carr and his gypsy jokes on here before. They we’re from around the early naughties and he’d obviously never do them today but they were hugely offensive. Gypsies we’re seen as fair game back then. In an era before social media, high profile gypsies like the Fury family and TV programmes about gypsy life there were few gypsies in UK life in a cultural sense so they had no right to reply.

I must be getting old because I find his pedo jokes really distasteful now as well.

 

[Brophs]

Is that the kind of thing we're supposed to be ok with not to be labeled a SJW, snowflake, woke or whatever the new alt-right buzzword of the moment is?

Not at all. It’s appalling. I posted it because it’s the sort of thing that has people defending it purely, it seems to me, as a reaction to that stuff. Anyone with their head screwed on would surely be able to recognise that sort of thing for what it is.

 

[Brophs]

I’ve posted about Jimmy Carr and his gypsy jokes on here before. They we’re from around the early naughties and he’d obviously never do them today but they were hugely offensive. Gypsies we’re seen as fair game back then. In an era before social media, high profile gypsies like the Fury family and TV programmes about gypsy life there were few gypsies in UK life in a cultural sense so they had no right to reply.

I must be getting old because I find his pedo jokes really distasteful now as well.

According to one the replies, this is from a new Netflix special?

 

[Ekkie Thump]

I’ve posted about Jimmy Carr and his gypsy jokes on here before. They we’re from around the early naughties and he’d obviously never do them today but they were hugely offensive. Gypsies we’re seen as fair game back then. In an era before social media, high profile gypsies like the Fury family and TV programmes about gypsy life there were few gypsies in UK life in a cultural sense so they had no right to reply.

I must be getting old because I find his pedo jokes really distasteful now as well.

It's from his most recent Netflix special I think (Dec 2021).

 

[nimic]

According to one the replies, this is from a new Netflix special?

It is.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

According to one the replies, this is from a new Netflix special?

Fair enough. It’s shocking that he’s still doing them to no reaction.

 

[Jippy]

Plumber awarded £25,000 by tribunal over ‘Half-dead Dave’ nickname at work

David Robson, who was 69, was sacked after scoring low points in a redundancy selection process which was ruled 'unfair' and discriminatory

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...-25000-tribunal-half-dead-dave-nickname-work/

 

[DOTA]

According to one the replies, this is from a new Netflix special?

Grim.

 

[Jippy]

I’ve posted about Jimmy Carr and his gypsy jokes on here before. They we’re from around the early naughties and he’d obviously never do them today but they were hugely offensive. Gypsies we’re seen as fair game back then. In an era before social media, high profile gypsies like the Fury family and TV programmes about gypsy life there were few gypsies in UK life in a cultural sense so they had no right to reply.

I must be getting old because I find his pedo jokes really distasteful now as well.

Does any minority group poked fun at by comedians on TV really get a right to reply? I guess you had high profile black, Asian and Jewish comedians, but not like they got anything near the same airtime.

The programmes about gypsy life were particularly prurient, focusing on punch ups and scantily clad young women.

The Japanese also spring to mind, with every programme on Japan basically pointing and laughing at aspects of their culture we find weird.

 

[BD]

Jesus, that Carr clip is horrible.

 

[Ekkie Thump]

In this longer version he does the joke then immediately provides his idea of a justification for doing it:

 

[Sweet Square]

Of course he tweeted this.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Does any minority group poked fun at by comedians on TV really get a right to reply? I guess you had high profile black, Asian and Jewish comedians, but not like they got anything near the same airtime.

The programmes about gypsy life were particularly prurient, focusing on punch ups and scantily clad young women.

The Japanese also spring to mind, with every programme on Japan basically pointing and laughing at aspects of their culture we find weird.

I don't think any minority group except for gypsies would have such an offensive joke made about them today by a mainstream figure like Carr. Maybe the right to reply is the wrong phrase, what I meant was spokespeople in the mainstream culture, like the tweeter complaining about this joke appears to be (although I've never heard of him). In the early 2000s there were little to no avenues for that to happen. What do you think would happen if that joke was made about the Jews, or something similarly offensive about black people or muslims. There would be loads of outraged voices of influence. It would be something of a national scandal with GMB have viral interviews about it.

Not all programmes about gypsy life were as you describe. There was a Channel 5 series called Gypsy Kids (I think) which was much more sympathetic towards the issues that gypsies face in the UK. There have been others too.

 

[Jippy]

I don't think any minority group except for gypsies would have such an offensive joke made about them today by a mainstream figure like Carr. Maybe the right to reply is the wrong phrase, what I meant was spokespeople in the mainstream culture, like the tweeter complaining about this joke appears to be (although I've never heard of him). In the early 2000s there were little to no avenues for that to happen. What do you think would happen if that joke was made about the Jews, or something similarly offensive about black people or muslims. There would be loads of outraged voices of influence. It would be something of a national scandal with GMB have viral interviews about it.

Not all programmes about gypsy life were as you describe. There was a Channel 5 series called Gypsy Kids (I think) which was much more sympathetic towards the issues that gypsies face in the UK. There have been others too.

Yeah that's what I was referring to saying I can't think of any gypsy comedians who might take the piss back as an example.
I can only think of Fury, who's obviously had his own controversies, and some clan head bloke who was a very minor celebrity for a while as gypsy people with profile.
I only just listened to the clip and yeah that feels from another age. He would never dare say it about jews.

I think it was the gypsy weddings programme i saw, I didn't see any others.

I saw a designated gypsy camp in the Cotswolds and it was directly next to a massive sewage treatment plant. That seemed like another result of having no voice.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

In this longer version he does the joke then immediately provides his idea of a justification for doing it:

The longer version is a bit less grim. It’s in horrendously bad taste regardless. But that’s his shtick. Deliberately telling jokes in the worst possible taste. He’s hoping to make people laugh almost out of shock.

Well, I say worst possible taste but he’s clever enough to know there’s a line he can’t cross and that line will change over time. Gypsies (feel weird calling them that, I think it’s probably a slur? they’re called travellers in Ireland) are the right side of that line now but probably won’t be much longer.

 

[2 man midfield]

I reckon a not insignificant amount of people wouldn’t even know gypsies are a race, which might be why there does seem to be a double standard.

I was only the other day reading a piece where Jimmy Carr said he dreads the day someone digs up something he said 20 years ago to cancel him with - then he goes and says that in his most recent show!

 

[Botim]

Why are people so outraged? It's just a dark joke like he always makes.
Nadine Dorries saying they are working on a law to actually outlaw "offensive" jokes should be causing far more outrage.

 

[UweBein]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

I reckon a not insignificant amount of people wouldn’t even know gypsies are a race, which might be why there does seem to be a double standard.

...

It feels strange to me to read that.
Do you (in Uk/us) differentiate between races?

 

[africanspur]

It feels strange to me to read that.
Do you (in Uk/us) differentiate between races?

Are you suggesting that in Germany there is no differentiation between races?

 

[Botim]

Are you suggesting that in Germany there is no differentiation between races?

There shouldn't be, as race is a made up construct. Gypsies aren't a race, just like white people aren't.

Most countries don't keep statistics on race like they do in the US, by the way.

 

[Jippy]

Why are people so outraged? It's just a dark joke like he always makes.
Nadine Dorries saying they are working on a law to actually outlaw "offensive" jokes should be causing far more outrage.

There's the argument that it's the double standard of us having moved on from accepting vicious humour about black, Asian and Jewish people as mainstream entertainment, but the gypsies are still being considered fair game cos people don't care about them and they have zero power or influence to object, being so marginalised.

Personally, I think the joke is a bit of a lazy cheap shot that feels very dated and a bit Bernard Manning.

The idea of banning 'offensive' jokes is bonkers though. Would you bar certain topics or have them pre-vetted? I don't think the holocaust is off limits, just there are better misdirection jokes about it.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Irish travellers, Romani and Roma groups are recognised as ethnic groups rather than as races. Discrimination against them is recognised as racism under the Race Relations Act and in a court of law, however.

 

[UweBein]

Are you suggesting that in Germany there is no differentiation between races?

We avoid the term in general.
But we would not call the members of the group of Sinti and Roma a race.

 

[Pexbo]

There's the argument that it's the double standard of us having moved on from accepting vicious humour about black, Asian and Jewish people as mainstream entertainment, but the gypsies are still being considered fair game cos people don't care about them and they have zero power or influence to object, being so marginalised.

Personally, I think the joke is a bit of a lazy cheap shot that feels very dated and a bit Bernard Manning.

The idea of banning 'offensive' jokes is bonkers though. Would you bar certain topics or have them pre-vetted? I don't think the holocaust is off limits, just there are better misdirection jokes about it.

I watched this episode over Christmas and although I can’t remember that specific joke I’m going to assume it was delivered in the middle of a section where he literally prefaces it as “the part of the show that will get me cancelled” or “the end of my career” or something like that before he rattles off about 20 jokes which are genuinely horrific and offend just about everyone there is to offend.

If anything it feels like it could be offensive to the subjects of all the other jokes that people are outraged by this specific joke about this specific community while the others aren’t even mentioned.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

As soon as I read this I went all in on team Jimmy. Any enemy of Nadine Dorries…

 

[KirkDuyt]

Jimmy Carr jokes about some horrible things. He also makes me laugh.

I tend to not entirely disagree with his reasoning behind joking about horrible things either.

 

[Grylte]

Jimmy Carr jokes about some horrible things. He also makes me laugh.

I tend to not entirely disagree with his reasoning behind joking about horrible things either.

It's also pretty clear that he doesn't mean it. He's making those jokes just to be as horrible as possible to get a reaction.
As Pexbo said: “the part of the show that will get me cancelled”.
There are many things people can and should be offended by, stand up comedians saying horrible things to get a reaction, isn't one of them, imo.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I watched this episode over Christmas and although I can’t remember that specific joke I’m going to assume it was delivered in the middle of a section where he literally prefaces it as “the part of the show that will get me cancelled” or “the end of my career” or something like that before he rattles off about 20 jokes which are genuinely horrific and offend just about everyone there is to offend.

If anything it feels like it could be offensive to the subjects of all the other jokes that people are outraged by this specific joke about this specific community while the others aren’t even mentioned.

I suppose he’s reframed the delivery for the times but in his early career they were just rattled off. I was a big fan of Jimmy Carr back then but even in those times his gypsy stuff seemed off because he wouldn’t dare make those jokes about other minority groups.

 

[Dante]

I tend to err on the side of 'freedom of speech' when it comes to jokes and comedy. And Carr has always been one of my favourites stand ups. But he really overstepped the line there.

He's literally guilty of hate speech. There's no defending it.

 

[Botim]

He's literally guilty of hate speech. There's no defending it.

Oh common, that is so ridiculous. Nobody bats an eye when he jokes about rape or incest. Or when he made that joke about raising money for mosquito nets in Africa to prevent the poor mosquitos from getting aids.

It's his style of comedy. Either you ban offensive comedy altogether (as some fanatics are suggesting), or you accept that sometimes you'll feel disgusted by someone's jokes.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Anyone going to see Jimmy Carr or watch Jimmy Carr and approaching it through any contextual lens that doesn’t involve the thought process “this man is going to say horrific and offensive things that he clearly doesn’t believe himself but wants to get a reaction to highlight how horrific those things are and it’s a joke” perplexes me.

I don’t see why if we’re going down that road why it’s not had similar outrage at the suggestion of Jehovah’s Witnesses being killed too? And also why has it been over a month before anyone has decided to be outraged by this?

Im far more worried about the introduction of censorship than an idiot telling a crap joke.

 

[SilentWitness]

Anyone going to see Jimmy Carr or watch Jimmy Carr and approaching it through any contextual lens that doesn’t involve the thought process “this man is going to say horrific and offensive things that he clearly doesn’t believe himself but wants to get a reaction to highlight how horrific those things are and it’s a joke” perplexes me.

I don’t see why if we’re going down that road why it’s not had similar outrage at the suggestion of Jehovah’s Witnesses being killed too? And also why has it been over a month before anyone has decided to be outraged by this?

Im far more worried about the introduction of censorship than an idiot telling a crap joke.

I think the point here is that he’s using gypsies because if he said it about any other group he’d be fecked. That’s not okay.

 

[TMDaines]

Just as with any form of humour, there’s successful bits and jokes that fall flat. The problem with the unsuccessful bits of black humour is that it often just becomes hate speech.

You can’t just hide behind crap black humour by saying it is designed to offend. The best of it usually has a satirical point or is used to provide cathartic relief. Unless you do a Stewart Lee piece and then use the joke to turn on the audience’s own racism, what’s the point of it? “Hahaha, we all hate gypsies, don’t we?”

I still do enjoy Jimmy Carr as a presenter of various things, but haven’t watched any of his recent stand up shows.

 

[Hansi Fick]

Are you suggesting that in Germany there is no differentiation between races?

The word "race", or rather the German word, "Rasse", is not an acceptable word to use as an actual description, due to it's integral connection to, well, RACISM and its history in Germany (for example, the "Rassengesetze", "race laws" of the Nazi era codifying discrimation and ultimately genocide based on 'racial' discourse).

And that's of course how it should be. "Race" is, on the whole, a racist word even in English, in that it purports to be a biological, evident category when it's really a highly discoursive societal one, entangled in a history of discrimination and exploitation, in which the self-naturalization, scientification of the concept plays a massive role.
I continue to be somewhat puzzled that the word is continued to being used straightforwardly in English-speaking societies even if of course there's a deconstruction of it going on. I think it throws a spanner into the work of anti-racism.

 

[Botim]

I think the point here is that he’s using gypsies because if he said it about any other group he’d be fecked. That’s not okay.

You've clearly never seen his shows.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Just as with any form of humour, there’s successful bits and jokes that fall flat. The problem with the unsuccessful bits of black humour is that it often just becomes hate speech.

You can’t just hide behind crap black humour by saying it is designed to offend. The best of it usually has a satirical point or is used to provide cathartic relief. Unless you do a Stewart Lee piece and then use the joke to turn on the audience’s own racism, what’s the point of it? “Hahaha, we all hate gypsies, don’t we?”

I still do enjoy Jimmy Carr as a presenter of various things, but haven’t watched any of his recent stand up shows.

His somewhat serious explanation afterwards is that most people don't even know about the holocaust also including gypsies, Jehova's gay people and the disabled.

It is clearly very offensieve and understandable people think he should feck off full blown hate speech? I disagree.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Irish travellers, Romani and Roma groups are recognised as ethnic groups rather than as races. Discrimination against them is recognised as racism under the Race Relations Act and in a court of law, however.

The council were proposing to build a large traveller camp in a nearby village and local residents were all campaigning against it. They were coming up with all sorts of reasons like “drainage” but it was clear that the main reason that people were opposed was because of who would be living there. This is racism right? Would anyone on here be upset if the camp was being proposed on their doorsteps?

 

[SilentWitness]

You've clearly never seen his shows.

I have. I just think this type of comedy isn't ‘Cool’ anymore.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

I think the point here is that he’s using gypsies because if he said it about any other group he’d be fecked. That’s not okay.

But if that was his intention why would he follow up with the Jehovahs joke?

Surely he’s using shock comedy to highlight the horrors of the holocaust for a few other groups too and I suppose ironically how we are more accepting of taking the piss out of those two smaller groups?

Nobody seems to be calling him out for the Jehovah comments unless I’m mistaken?