How can someone conceivably believe being stretchered off after 20 mins or so in a final can boost your claim to being superior to another player?
Has Ronaldo just settled current generation's GOAT debate?
- Thread starter baanke laal
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Ronaldo has won the CL at two different clubs, won the league in the two best leagues, also being top scorer and player of those leagues, he has also won Ballon D'Or in two countries.
Now to top it off he has won an international tournament.
Messi: stayed in his comfort zone at Barcelona always being surrounded by superb players.
Messi is a superb player and has done stuff on the pitch Ronaldo would dream of. However in terms of trophies, importance to a variety of different teams, and leadership, Ronaldo edges it for me now.
Now to top it off he has won an international tournament.
Messi: stayed in his comfort zone at Barcelona always being surrounded by superb players.
Messi is a superb player and has done stuff on the pitch Ronaldo would dream of. However in terms of trophies, importance to a variety of different teams, and leadership, Ronaldo edges it for me now.
This win doesn't make a difference. Even if he played 90 mins and scored a hat trick, it doesn't change the last several years of evidence.
Let's ignore the fact that Ronaldo started off at Sporting as a winger whilst Messi started off at a very dominant Barca side just to make Messi look better.
No, they win a tournament - an important one too and he plays a more important role than people give him credit for. His involvement is more than about one game and him limping off injured is just about the same as him playing bad and having no effect on the game. The important thing, of course, is that he's helped his team win their first major tournament. It's only natural people are going to start comparing the trophies because they've pretty already matched each others goal scoring records.
Messi's better
When it comes to Ronaldo vs Messi, people lose all sense. When it comes to arguments about the GOAT, people make strange arguments. Put the 2 together and you get some of the weirdest sh!t you can imagine.
But then you are judging it based on making their way to the final? in which they were the "best 3rd place team" in the group stages?
Basically Ronaldo got to a Final so you say he's the GOAT, yet Messi got to a World Cup Final and it's not an achievement?
Eder is the man who made history for Portugal. Not Ronaldo.
Gotze for Germany. Iniesta for Spain.
This doesn't settle anything. Ronaldo's team won, but his performances overall were subpar.
Indeed, Ronaldo has been the better player for a few years now, pretty much since Xavi got old.`
Da hell does GOAT stand for.
Messi had an unearthly 2014/15, while Xavi was already on his way out.
of course. ronaldo worked hard at sporting to join united while messi was handed a squad place in barcelona youth team.Let's ignore the fact that Ronaldo started off at Sporting as a winger whilst Messi started off at a very dominant Barca side just to make Messi look better.
That's bollocks.
Who gives a shit? Can't we just enjoy both?
'Greatest of all time'
I don't think Ronaldo and Messi are even comparable. Ronaldo can be fantastic, but Messi...well, Messi is footballing poetry in motion.
Plus, as far as Portugal winning the Euros go, I don't think it adds anything to the Ronaldo hype. He was far from inspiring, barely even effective most matches in-spite of his goals. This was a solid Portugal team that only won 1 match in 90 minutes through the entire tournament. It's not as if Ronnie was some irresistible force that dragged the team forward towards glory.
Plus, as far as Portugal winning the Euros go, I don't think it adds anything to the Ronaldo hype. He was far from inspiring, barely even effective most matches in-spite of his goals. This was a solid Portugal team that only won 1 match in 90 minutes through the entire tournament. It's not as if Ronnie was some irresistible force that dragged the team forward towards glory.
Lionel Messi da GOAT.
It's sport, its not meant to be fair. Luck plays a pretty big part in a player's success.
So basically for the last 3 seasons, Ronaldo was better for a longer period.
Messi took an average Argentina to the WC final whilst Ronaldo wasn't even the best player on his team to lead his team past the mighty Croatia, Poland and Wales to play 20mins in the final. Small margins and all that.
Portugal's victory changes nothing in the Messi vs Ronaldo debate imo. Football is a team game and you have to look at the individuals themselves to compare them.
Portugal's victory changes nothing in the Messi vs Ronaldo debate imo. Football is a team game and you have to look at the individuals themselves to compare them.
What a bizarre post. Messi has won 4 CL's in the last 10 years compared to Ronaldo's two, and on top of that Ronaldo has like what, 1 league win in 6 or 7 years playing for the mighty Real Madrid compared to Messi's 4 or 5? Messi completely edges it in terms of silverware. As if he couldn't win the CL or the league if he played for United earlier on or even right now.
So what if they won another 2 matches in ET and 1 on penalties? Winning is winning.
It matters little as long as you qualify. Ronaldo did his part in making them the "best 3rd place team" and in turn making them the eventual winners.
No, I was in the GOAT camp even before this campaign - this simply is a one-up on his rival.
You know the difference. I'm not even going to argue with that.
We're not talking about the player's success but their skill and footballing ability. Luck plays no part in that, unless you're arguing that Ronaldo is innately luckier than Messi.
Delighted for Portugal and Ronaldo. I prefer Ronaldo to Messi by a mile but in term of GOATs it ranks Pele, Messi Ronaldo in that order.
Ronaldo has 3 CL and Messi's first was just a medal for being in the squad..
Aguero, Mascherano, Di Maria & co are average?
Ronaldo won the CL 07/08, 13/14 & 15/16, but let's not let facts get in the way of sprouting non-sense...
No I don't know the difference please tell me why Ronaldo getting to a final and his team winning it for him is not the same as Messi making it to a final and not winning it?
It's like me getting on a bus and my bus breaking down, yet you getting on a bus getting to a destination and you are a better driver than me?
Eder is the man in the history books not Ronaldo.
For starters, he didn't help them lose the game by missing a penalty.
Dont understand this argument. If Ronaldo would be a Real youth product, he would have played his whole career at Real. He just used Sporting and United to go there anyway. It was a natural progress, while Messi was at La Masia. So staying at Barca is now a negative, why the feck should he leave? It is his dream club, just to show he can do it in the mighty PL? Things have evolved how they have evolved, but this 'he has done it in more leagues' argument is a bit bizarre for me due to their different paths they took to reach their dream clubs.
Yes, winning is winning. But that wasn't my point, was it.
You've literally cherry-picked one section of my comment and taken it out of context.
No no no, it's one or the other. Pick a side and make sure to write complete bullshit about the other instead of respecting and admiring like anyone over 15 years old should do.
The debate is embarrassing. Enjoy them while you're around, talents like this don't come around often.
This is a great point, Messi has never won anything outside his comfort zone. And we are unlikely to find that out.
Ronaldo has won it in different environments with different teams, not to mention with a significantly weaker national team. That should be taken into account.
We're surely talking about both? Otherwise we could nominate a player who played a few unbelievable games and then never played again.
Football is about winning. It's a competitive sport, not art.
It does which is why you should look at as much information as possible.
Like?
He wasn't even Portugals best player, besides Portugal won this because of their defence and huge amounts of luck, not sure how it elevates his stature as player when he did pretty much feck all, hell nani was better than him.
I genuinely think that Ronaldo going off injured like that galvanised the team. To the Portuguese he is a genuine hero, and seeing their hero go off like that was a big motivational factor imo. You could see just how much it meant to him, and I don't doubt that they wanted to win it for him as well as themselves. This sounds sort of ridiculous as I write but I honestly think it's true. Some players can inspire and motivate people in that way - to compare it to United I reckon Keane was that kind of figure, people upped their game to impress him and because they didn't want to let him down
There's no point in replying to the rest of your post when you come out with comments like "barely effective in spite of his goals".
Portugal won the Euro, during which Ronaldo was the team's topscorer, yet somehow he's been ineffective.