Suarez would be my choice if only club form was considered. He is hurt by the fact that he has not played international Football this year.
Has Ronaldo just settled current generation's GOAT debate?
- Thread starter baanke laal
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
I don't even care it's Wales or Andorra - it's the semifinal of a major competition and you gotta win to progress. Unfortunately his detractors will use it as an argument to put down his achievement.
Defenders never win it mate.
No. He was great, first time I looked at him as deserving of the captain's armband, but what makes me think of Messi as a superior player is what I see him do with the ball nearly every time he plays. No amount of trophies either way will change that for me.
Fact is Ronaldo has outscored Messi consistently for quite a few years now.Would you need to be reminded that Messi also started as a winger? Yeah Ronaldo started at Sporting (1 season) against Portuguese tier teams, not Spanish level.
A dominant Barça side, sure, in his first full season he got injured in March, and in the next 2 years that "dominant side" managed to win a single Spanish supercup. Now the kid that scored 3 against Madrid to save our ass and got dragged down by his teammates for 2 seasons was being carried by a dominant side, the things I have to read
http://messivsronaldo.net/
So you could say he is a better manager than Messi too.
I don't think I brought Maradona's 86 world cup in the argument, someone else did.
But, Maradona did not do anything in the Final and depended on his teammates to win the trophy for him. That's a FACHT
He took them to final by playing brilliantly in the semi-final, just like Ronaldo took Portugal to the final
He had the assist for the winner (3-2). An awesome, first time pass over the top.
He was man-marked by Matthaus for most of the match, Argentina went 2-0 up from set pieces, Matthaus was pushed forward and Germany equalised, unfortunately Maradona was free for long enough and it was 3-2.
And to even compare one good leap and header from a good cross with Maradona's moments throughout the WC and equate Maradona "taking them to the final by brilliance in the semi" with what Ronaldo did in 2016 is ... I don't know what to say. You do realise there were games other than vs Wales, right? And that Maradona's tournament was more than the semifinal...
Ronaldo is playing further up the pitch and more central.
Messi is playing deeper and less central.
It's mind-blowing to think that as your starting position moves further away from the goal that you score less goals isn't it?
So did Mascherano during the WC year. We know what happened, though. Ronaldo deserves it this year and if you want to break the tradition, please do so in a year where Ronaldo is not in the running for the Ballan D'Or please.
A better question would be whether Higuain's consistent shitness and being out-performed by fecking Eder has made the question semi-legitimate again.
How exactly is Ronaldo playing more central for Real Madrid?
As for Messi playing deeper, if Enrique somehow thinks Suarez is a better goalscorer than him...
So, was Ronaldo's. Just one good leap and header from a cross? Did you forget Ronaldo's world class goal against Hungary? It has been voted in the best 3 goals of the tournament.
And that Maradona's tournament was more than the semifinal...
Also, do u think scoring the header Ronaldo scored is that easy?
I am sure Ronaldo would have influenced the final more, had he played the full game. Not that he needed to, played the perfect leader and manager from the touchline
You are a good person to ask since you seem reasonable. What was so impressive about what he did in the final. Literally anyone could have stood on the touchline shouting instructions.
Can tell some people here didn't watch the Copa final. Messi was good and if the strikers had have buried a few easy chances (like in the World Cup final), Argentina would have won.
Ronaldo had nothing to do with Portugal's win tonight. The main factor of their tournament win was a weak quality of tournament and good management.
Messi is clearly the better player. It's unfathomable to think otherwise, in my opinion.
Ronaldo had nothing to do with Portugal's win tonight. The main factor of their tournament win was a weak quality of tournament and good management.
Messi is clearly the better player. It's unfathomable to think otherwise, in my opinion.
Any spacegoats in this thread?
He was ok in the final, not more. Argentina were completely awful as a team, and he should have done more than solo dribbles. Banega decided to do nothing, so I felt it was on Messi to make the front 4 a bit more cohesive. Be the no. 10, in other words. That said he was literally their only threat. Worst team performance in attack I've ever seen.
This is getting tedious. You brought up that semi (since it makes most sense to big-up Ronaldo's contribution). You do realise Maradona scored what is considered the best goal in WC history vs England in the QF, right?So, was Ronaldo's. Just one good leap and header from a cross? Did you forget Ronaldo's world class goal against Hungary? It has been voted in the best 3 goals of the tournament.
Also, do u think scoring the header Ronaldo scored is that easy?
I am sure Ronaldo would have influenced the final more, had he played the full game. Not that he needed to, played the perfect leader and manager from the touchline
Yes, Ronaldo would have influenced the game as well as he did vs the giants Iceland, Austria, Poland, and Croatia. Or the 1st 15 mins vs France, where he gave the ball away once and that's it. He had a poor tournament with 2 good matches.
If you voted option two you are a terrible person.
I don't know, it's a gut feeling. His colleagues in the NT love him, as much as from a distance it seems he's one of the most annoying personalities to have in his team. Some things you can understand only by knowing the players well and the Portuguese own ways. I was incredibly touched by him almost ordering Moutinho to hit a penalty and Moutinho putting it in. Moutinho had missed a penalty against Spain and was clearly not in the mood for the pressure, but Ronaldo knows who the best players are. I wouldn't be surprised if he has been almost an assistant manager throughout this tournament, it's plain to see he does as he sees fit. And well, we won. He has to take credit for his captaincy. Look at Éder, one of his best mates, and how he was always near him today.
As I said, it's a feeling, I can't objectify that. I always claimed he was the opposite of what a captain should be, but well, facts told me otherwise this tournament.
I admire Ronaldo for so many reasons: technically and skilfully one of the best ever, former United legend, utter commitment to his profession, does not engage in too many anti social or immoral behaviours, a good role model for younger people … the list is long.
But I hate his narcissism: We saw it again today at the final whistle: He had to cry on his own to try and be centre of attention and had to rip off his jersey to show off his torso. Im sure he will have received or read about the publics criticisms for both, so why does he carry it on?
I don't think he is a team player, he in it simply for himself, but annoyingly for him, football can't be won a,one, its needs a team, so he has to put up with everyone else. Just as I was glad we won without his penally in 2008, so I'm delighted Portugal won this final without him. They can claim equal stakes in the teams success instead of Ronnie claiming it was all down to him.
But I hate his narcissism: We saw it again today at the final whistle: He had to cry on his own to try and be centre of attention and had to rip off his jersey to show off his torso. Im sure he will have received or read about the publics criticisms for both, so why does he carry it on?
I don't think he is a team player, he in it simply for himself, but annoyingly for him, football can't be won a,one, its needs a team, so he has to put up with everyone else. Just as I was glad we won without his penally in 2008, so I'm delighted Portugal won this final without him. They can claim equal stakes in the teams success instead of Ronnie claiming it was all down to him.
But his pointless tap dancing did not deliver success at the highest level.
Messi FAILED for Argentina with a much better team than Ronaldo has has in Euro's 2016
Criticizing a Footballer for narcissism is like criticizing a racer for speeding. You need extreme belief in your self to be able to compete at that level.
Ronaldo gravitates as an inverted forward always as he's got older, he's mostly the one linking at at the edge of the box whilst Messi is the one to come to the centre circle to start moves happening.How exactly is Ronaldo playing more central for Real Madrid?
As for Messi playing deeper, if Enrique somehow thinks Suarez is a better goalscorer than him...
Here's a comparison of a heat-map in El Classico 12 months ago
These are triggered when they touch the ball by the way, Ronaldo is less involved.
Here's another example, El Classico this year where Madrid actually won.
You can see where Messi touches the ball, he's a lot more central but Ronaldo inverted forward touches the ball in the box more and in much less dangerous areas creating less for his team. Messi is hugely influential.
You can't blame Ronaldo he's old now in footballing terms, Messi is a better passer and dribbler so he can come a little deeper, Ronaldos numbers are great but he's doing less for the team over the 90 minutes he's there to get the headlines and that's a reason why he hasn't won as much for Real because he doesn't influence as much.
Feel free to check out the Squawka heat maps though which don't lie, it's all provided through OPTA.
I think Ronaldo is great he's just not on the same level.
Messi is clearly a better player, but being the greatest isn't just about ability imo. Just like Ali is the greatest but not the best of all time.
(Right now) I wouldn't rate Messi as the greatest of all time but probably as the best of all time.
Not sure about Ronaldo. His international career has been way, way better than people give him credit for and he now has a trophy on top of that but he's neither the best nor the greatest of all time.
(Right now) I wouldn't rate Messi as the greatest of all time but probably as the best of all time.
Not sure about Ronaldo. His international career has been way, way better than people give him credit for and he now has a trophy on top of that but he's neither the best nor the greatest of all time.
No, because pepe and nani are the ones who carried portugal team not ronaldo.
Ronaldo did feck all except 2 games.
Ronaldo did feck all except 2 games.
Which team did Messi play with at the Euros? Was he the bleached one in the Wales side?
- Talking about impact on games - this goes to Messi. The incredible ball control, balance, ability to get the ball from deep and take 3 or 4 players out of the game with brilliant dribbles and subtle movements. This easily goes to Messi. Ronaldo had it in his younger years but when he started picking up great goalscoring records that side of his game regressed down to will probably. They never coincided the same way Messi does. He doesn't have to score to demonstrate why he a class apart.
- Impact on trophies - Both have lots but Ronaldo's is limited because since going to Spain he's been in direct competition with Messi's Barca who have way more stability on and off the field. Latterly Atletico have entered that conversation. Ronaldo has this trophy to his name but wasn't even the best player in his own team, didn't last the final and his team mates played essentially a 90 minute game and got through it without him.
Griezmann bottled it twice: against Real in CL (penalty) and against Portugal. He's a good player, but he thrives on space, nevertheless he's still young, he'll up his game soon enough. Suarez was maybe Barcelona's best player, but not good enough compared with Ronnie. Why should have Pepe performed a lot more consistently? Pepe had his moments, particularly in the Euros, but that's not always been the case during the season, imo. I like what Toni Kroos did, but even he can't match Ronaldo this year.
In the end it's all about personal opinion. Fair play to you for thinking differently.
No its not. You tarlikng about being competitive which is about doing absolutely anything to win. We've had players like that before: Robson, Schmeical, Keane and Vidic immediately come to mind.
But football is a team game glory is shared with your team. Even Beckham celebrated with his team mates, in fact he mad sure he was in every single photo opportunity when a team member scored!
I am not a fan of either, but Messi is clearly the better player.
Don't be obtuse. Im obviously talking about Messi's Argentina team in World Cup 2014. You know, the match when he went missing in the final vs Germany?????
Nah, Ronaldo just understand and has mastered the art of Sun Tzu by being more strategical smarter than Messi by sending a secret agent called Higuain to mess up Messi chance at International Glory.
Messi is still GOAT.
Messi is still GOAT.
I saw Messi on the pitch in that game. If you want to talk about players going missing, where was Ronaldo after the first 15 minutes today?????
It's no comparison. When both are on -form and injury free Messi has always been a level above him. One good game against Wales and half a game against Hungary won't change that imo.
Ronaldo is superior in some aspects, mainly heading and leadership but Messi overall is a better player. He is a playmaker, a finisher and a midfielder all in one.
Ronaldo is superior in some aspects, mainly heading and leadership but Messi overall is a better player. He is a playmaker, a finisher and a midfielder all in one.
Messi played better in copa than Ronaldo did at the Euros. Much better, actually.
I agree, but I think his solo dribbles was a result of him not having any other option in front. There was a severe lack of off ball movement whenever Messi was on the ball.
The whole idea of the thread is a bit ridiculous, the difference between Portugal and Argentina is that we won the final. Yet Ronaldo didn't play that final. How is that supposed to settle any debate?
I don't think it would be settled any way even if Ronaldo had been MoTM today, for a multitude of reasons. Yet, even for the ones who think these NT decisive moments should make all the difference (a fair view, even if I disagree), how can this be an argument?
I don't think it would be settled any way even if Ronaldo had been MoTM today, for a multitude of reasons. Yet, even for the ones who think these NT decisive moments should make all the difference (a fair view, even if I disagree), how can this be an argument?
Messi is a tax evading penalty missing goat.