Lol forget facts, they can tell by watching all those imaginary appearances this season
Hating Lingard
- Thread starter golden_blunder
- Start date
What gets me about some football fans is they call a player crap and then he scores a fantastic goal and there opinion changes and that's why some fans are idiots.
Nothing at all. In fact anyone on the pitch wearing the Red shirt should always be supported, whether it's Lingard, Fellaini, Lindelof or even fecking Darmian. That's not what i'm saying. What i'm saying is threads like this are saying people directly 'hate' Lingard when I don't think most people personally hate him (although there is always people that go over the top) and the narrative seems as if Lingard doesn't justify any criticism which alot of the time he does. Not everyone is going to have the same opinion about players and Lingard does still have alot to prove. If he can can play like last night for 5-6 games in a row the criticism will simmer down, much like it has for Lindelof now. He just has to play better more consistently.
I didn't get that treatment.
The issue is people are quick to Pidgeon hole a player as "amazing" or "shit" and everything they post from that point is based on those categorisations.
Our players could commit the same action and posts would be completely different on this forum, i have zero doubt about that.
Our players could commit the same action and posts would be completely different on this forum, i have zero doubt about that.
That’s because you’re like herpes, fun at the time with a nasty after effect. You don’t like to see herpes coming back
Don't look at his social media profiles. Don't follow any footballer (or people i don't know in general) on social media. But even if I did and didn't like what I saw, I'd still just see it as a player giving fans a window into his life, which a lot will appreciate.
I do think he is a average player, but a versatile one at that, so a good player to have in a well working squad. The issues with him now are more due to the collective around him lacking in quality or consistency, meaning he plays presumably more than a lot of us would want a squad player to do.
I did have issues with his reported wages, due to how hard it will make selling him if we do want to upgrade our squad options, but then again we have a squad that desperately has needed genuine quality as additions for our first 11 now for some time: we're far off being in a position to sell Lingard to get someone better for that role.
I also think the "local lad" thing swings both ways. I think it's great to have a local lad as a squad player that works hard, as it promotes doing the legwork for our youth, and shows that with hard work you can make it here.
Then there is the homegrown quota which is good to have no issues with.
The other way it swings is when people use it to cover up mediocre performances, it flips people off, and I think that's a view that's fine. I don't think where you learned to play football should determine if you can receive criticism or not.
But then again, we have madness like saying Gomes would do better at 16/17 with that small a body and only a few minutes in a game that didn't have any intensity left when he came on where players admitted to playing him the ball to let him run with it for a while. He should be eased in when ready both technically and physically, especially in the English league.
Mkhitaryan, Lingard and Mata all offer different things, and none of them deserve to be first choice based on displays. If anything, Mkhitaryan and Mata don't fill the English quota, are older and would be worth more selling in order to make space for/bring in a quality first choice.
I do think he deserves criticism for not pulling his weight more often than not, but Mata & Mkhitaryan are the ones that were supposed to actually keep Lingard out of the team, and their performances can't even do that, so while Lingard frustrates those two just plain disappoint for now.
I do hope it gets sorted however, and I'm not sentimental enough over someone being local to care who it is. Any of the 3 can stay as backup/rotation as long as we get a proper quality first choice in.
I do think he is a average player, but a versatile one at that, so a good player to have in a well working squad. The issues with him now are more due to the collective around him lacking in quality or consistency, meaning he plays presumably more than a lot of us would want a squad player to do.
I did have issues with his reported wages, due to how hard it will make selling him if we do want to upgrade our squad options, but then again we have a squad that desperately has needed genuine quality as additions for our first 11 now for some time: we're far off being in a position to sell Lingard to get someone better for that role.
I also think the "local lad" thing swings both ways. I think it's great to have a local lad as a squad player that works hard, as it promotes doing the legwork for our youth, and shows that with hard work you can make it here.
Then there is the homegrown quota which is good to have no issues with.
The other way it swings is when people use it to cover up mediocre performances, it flips people off, and I think that's a view that's fine. I don't think where you learned to play football should determine if you can receive criticism or not.
But then again, we have madness like saying Gomes would do better at 16/17 with that small a body and only a few minutes in a game that didn't have any intensity left when he came on where players admitted to playing him the ball to let him run with it for a while. He should be eased in when ready both technically and physically, especially in the English league.
Mkhitaryan, Lingard and Mata all offer different things, and none of them deserve to be first choice based on displays. If anything, Mkhitaryan and Mata don't fill the English quota, are older and would be worth more selling in order to make space for/bring in a quality first choice.
I do think he deserves criticism for not pulling his weight more often than not, but Mata & Mkhitaryan are the ones that were supposed to actually keep Lingard out of the team, and their performances can't even do that, so while Lingard frustrates those two just plain disappoint for now.
I do hope it gets sorted however, and I'm not sentimental enough over someone being local to care who it is. Any of the 3 can stay as backup/rotation as long as we get a proper quality first choice in.
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I'm the Jesse Lingard of RedCafe.
The thread came about after I read through a few different threads where the criticism was ott. With this thread, several posters have said I must be his mum or related to him to defend him. It’s called showing support. I don’t think my OP is in any way OTT
At his age he should be much much more better than he does, I'm not hating him but he has to be more constant, think he will never be, sometimes he is good but most of times he is not exist and that is not the quality we need, we deserve better IMO.
No you’re a sexually transmitted disease that won’t go away
I'll have to bow to your superior knowledge on the issue of sexually transmitted diseases that won't go away.
He is not the greatest player but you nees squad players. O’shea, Brown, Hernandez, Butt, Evans etc have all been decent squad players but never ever set the world alight. Lingard is worth having for his cup final goals alone.
I guess it's useful to see people calling him a Championship player, helps to know who to ignore any opinions from in the future.
Are you me?
I think he has his uses, but he just annoys me. I'm getting old.
*Edit* ok you're not. Crap.
I'm with you in that the celebrations and the handshakes aren't my cup of tea. But I'd worry if my feelings were as binary as: Lingard scores great solo goal to tie up the win (love
), then arses around with a daft celebration (genuine burning hatred).The extent to which Lingard polarises our fan base and seems to evoke genuine disgust in some is pretty fascinating for sure.
See, I think the ott crititicsm for Lingard has been no worse than Lindelof was getting or Fellaini still gets which I find daft, but that's the nature of the fickle football fan in this day and age unfortunately. That's why I called this thread stupid as I don't see a thread for 'hating Fellaini' or 'hating Lindelof', Plus I know that some defend Lingard well over the top as a TopRed thing which really irritates me. Lingard when poor deserves the same criticism as anyone else not from the academy but he often gets a pass because 'he is local' (yep I said it ha). Hey i'm the one of his harshest critics if you go into his thread, but I don't hate him personally and I always give him praise when it's due as it should be. I think he needs to just let his performances do the talking now which hopefully he will.
Bollocks saying anyone hates Lingard it’s just that these fans hate not winning and he is one of the poorest players we have that it’s frustrating when he plays then plays shite.
I don't think he's anything special as a player but he's a solid and dependable squad figure and he's been reliably alright whenever we've used him this season.
Do you actually hate Lingard?
Yeah, that was precisely what everyone thought after that goal went in.
He is far away from a Championship level player. You just have to look at his performances against Burton/Swansea this season where he was brilliant. His goal/assist per minute stats is also very good this year. He lacks consistency and a little more vision for the position he plays. But then again that would make him a top player and a regular first team one.
Excellent squad option to have imo.
I mean. We could make it go away I suppose
The problem with him, as Scholes mentioned yesterday post-match, is consistency. Are we expecting the same performance if Mourinho starts him in the same position against Arsenal?
So a player who just played a motm performance, topped with a deciding goal from his own half, is one of the poorest players we have?
You are the hater we're all talking about, you just haven't realised it yet.
@JoaquinJoaquin
As in our discussions in the performance thread (which I eventually gave up on), you say he needs to do that for a run of 5 or 6 games to change your mind about him? Seriously, who has 5 or 6 stonking games in a row?
If he performed like that all the time, he 1) wouldn't be a squad player for us. 2) he'd have spain's big two trying to turn his head.
Perhaps expectations have been your problem all along.
This is an a and b conversation, c your way out of it.I mean. We could make it go away I suppose
The problem with this is, he's a squad player which means by definition he's going to be rotated and therefore it's unlikely that he'll be able to consistently produce goals & assists every time he plays.
What squad players do you know that are continuously getting goals/assists despite only getting 20/30 mins every other game, and start 1 game out of 7?
There's none that I know of personally.
If we expect Lingard to continuously be a threat and score goals every time we see him, then that means he should be a starter because we are then holding him to the same standard of Lukaku/Martial/Rashford/Miki and to a certain extent Pogba.
New Local Lad tagline for Andy?
He's got natural ability when it comes to his positional sense and movements with a knack of getting goal scoring opportunities.
As for enjoying the fact he is a local lad, why the heck not??!!!!
He's an asset to us, and quite frankly the need for some to criticise or belittle him is beyond hilarious. He clearly bothers some people. Ridiculous!
As for enjoying the fact he is a local lad, why the heck not??!!!!
He's an asset to us, and quite frankly the need for some to criticise or belittle him is beyond hilarious. He clearly bothers some people. Ridiculous!
To be fair I read that as a joke exaggeration of the more robust haters' position as it was posted after Lingard had scored.
Well, we can kind of say both Martial and Rashford have been squad players, alternating starts. The only way Lingard is going to get even a chance to reclaim a spot as a starter, now that #10 position is for grabs, is, after a good performance, if he doesn't produce a disappearing act, which is what we'll probably see against Arsenal. I mean, he cannot be useful just when the other teams formation and style of play help us, like Burton, Swansea or Watford, he has to be effective against Huddersfield.
He doesn't have to be fantastic for 5-6 games that's not what i'm saying, He just needs to be better and influence the game more which he is capable of on his day (like last night). Problem with him is that he will have a good game like last night and then go completely anonymous for a long spell after. Rinse and repeat. One of the main criticisms with Jesse for me is that he lets himself become anonymous at times when things aren't going his way (i've even sat and watched him at OT and seen first hand) and this is a habit he really needs to move away from. He will now start against Arsenal surely and another good game will see him staying in the team. After all the #10 position is totally up for grabs at the moment and with a couple of good games he can easily become the mainstay in that position until Summer when we bring in a world class player to play there (well, hopefully).
I don't think that's an insult. Someone thinks his level is championship, his opinion. We're not talking about a guaranteed player or one of our best, we're talking about a squad who had been a hit and a miss these previous years.
No I’m fine thank you.
So three good games he has don't count because it was the opposition's fault but one game where our team was all poor and its all that matters. What kind of argument even is that, nonsense.
But this is what I don't understand about our fan base personally.
All last season the people who don't like Lingard were crying out for him to get less minutes and be used as a squad rotation option - this season he's doing just that, and he already has (I think) 4 goals and 4 assists across all competitions, despite only 2 league starts. That's a fantastic return.
He's not going to displace Martial or Rashford especially since they mostly alternate on the left, and quite frankly we have far too many #10s and too few who have actually managed to do anything worthwhile this season - Lingard might actually be the most efficient #10 we have right now based on productivity per minute.
I'm of the opinion that we need a WC-level #10 to create more chances in the final third, so we rely less on Pogba, in the case of injury/fatigue.
His wages put him right in the squad tier, and that's where he's going to remain and I think he's comfortable with that, which is great.
As for the last section, I refer you back to my original question: What squad players do you know that are continuously getting goals/assists despite only getting 20/30 mins every other game, and start 1 game out of 7?
We need to be asking more of Mata & Miki, they are the more talented players, rather than directing blame towards Lingard imo.
Well, not my fault if he hasn't started that many games, is it? I can add Real Madrid were he played leftwingback till half-time, or Basel where he was out at 62' or Benfica where he was out at half-time (minor injury, perhaps). The thing is, he seems to perform against minor teams when he has space from the middle, and doesn't rescue us when he doesn't. Against Huddersfield, the mistake was starting Mata and in a 4-2-3-1, mind you, perhaps the only game Mourinho was overconfident.
He's an odd one. At times he seems to have everything other than a final product, then he'll go and score a borderline worldie and look like a penetrative, mobile attacker. Goal yesterday reminded me of Henry's against Spurs a while back.
Like other people have said he has the intelligence and movement to be an elusive number 10. I'd be up for giving him some time in that role to be honest.
Like other people have said he has the intelligence and movement to be an elusive number 10. I'd be up for giving him some time in that role to be honest.
Completely agree. And he's a player brought up by the club, which should count for something.
And the good thing about players from your own youth is that they might stick around longer or with less complaining about not being in the first eleven.
So you don’t think he is capable of p,yang at PL level. That’s what you’re saying right?
I agree. I won't pretend I've never been frustrated by Lingard's poorer performances because when he's bad he's almost invisible. Squad player or not I feel Lingard needs to improve his consistency but surely Mata and Mkhi as the more senior pros have even less excuse to be underperforming?
I've given him a lot of stick in the past, over the past two seasons of him being in the team I thought he'd been rubbish. His output was atrocious, and I felt he had been living off of his cup final goals.
That said he's done fine this season, scoring some nice goals whilst actually having a "squad player role"
He's been much better than Mkhy and Mata this season, so whenever we play the formation we played last night, or any with an attacking midfielder, Jesse would be the go to man for me.
That said he's done fine this season, scoring some nice goals whilst actually having a "squad player role"
He's been much better than Mkhy and Mata this season, so whenever we play the formation we played last night, or any with an attacking midfielder, Jesse would be the go to man for me.