Hating Lingard

[villain]

I agree. I won't pretend I've never been frustrated by Lingard's poorer performances because when he's bad he's almost invisible. Squad player or not I feel Lingard needs to improve his consistency but surely Mata and Mkhi as the more senior pros have even less excuse to be underperforming?

I think Mata has 1 goal and 1 assist in 10 starts - that's not even close to being good enough.
As for Mhiki, despite a decent start, he struggled in the games where we needed him most to be create chances while Pogba was out, and he just disappeared - it's not even close to being good enough quite frankly.

Those two are the more senior players, and have elite ability - they should be leading the way with chances created, assists and a few goals here and there.

Instead everyone gets mad at Lingard, who's not even a starter - it boggles the mind.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

I think Mata has 1 goal and 1 assist in 10 starts - that's not even close to being good enough.
As for Mhiki, despite a decent start, he struggled in the games where we needed him most to be create chances while Pogba was out, and he just disappeared - it's not even close to being good enough quite frankly.

Those two are the more senior players, and have elite ability - they should be leading the way with chances created, assists and a few goals here and there.

Instead everyone gets mad at Lingard, who's not even a starter - it boggles the mind.

Also clamouring for Pereira which,as he's unproven, is also baffling.

 

[Raoul]

I've practically given up on the forum...after 20 years. @Raoul @Niall I know you've been trying hard to get more new posters on the forum but it's seriously time for a mass cull because the place has got as bad as RAWK of late and it will drive away all the decent posters. Half the poster's I seriously doubt are even United fans. Quite simply, if someone starts attacking a United player or our manager in a way that if an oppo fan did that in the street he would get lynched by Reds then that should be bannable by itself.

Noted

 

[Toad]

If you don’t like him, why don’t you try telling someone who cares, nobody here.

 

[Ramshock]

I like Lingard its just the miserable sod in me wants him to stop dancing and knuckle down to become more consistant.

 

[Verminator]

He doesn't have to be fantastic for 5-6 games that's not what i'm saying, He just needs to be better and influence the game more which he is capable of on his day (like last night). Problem with him is that he will have a good game like last night and then go completely anonymous for a long spell after. Rinse and repeat. One of the main criticisms with Jesse for me is that he lets himself become anonymous at times when things aren't going his way (i've even sat and watched him at OT and seen first hand) and this is a habit he really needs to move away from. He will now start against Arsenal surely and another good game will see him staying in the team. After all the #10 position is totally up for grabs at the moment and with a couple of good games he can easily become the mainstay in that position until Summer when we bring in a world class player to play there (well, hopefully).

I can't think of an outfield player, other than early season Pogba and Lukaku, who have strung more than a good couple of games together.
I'm not going to accuse anyone of giving any players a free ride, but genuine first team erst aren't reaching the standards of consistency that some demand of Lingard.

 

[villain]

Also clamouring for Pereira which,as he's unproven, is also baffling.

If we put more energy into criticising the players who deserve it, maybe we'd get a reaction out of them.
I think Mourinho is trying to do that with Mhiki, as for Mata I think he's massively under-performing or possibly declining.

 

[limerickcitykid]

I like Lingard its just the miserable sod in me wants him to stop dancing and knuckle down to become more consistant.

And you really thinking his dancing in his free time affects this in any way?

 

[Sarni]

This is RedCafe nowadays, if Lingard were playing for City he'd be a 'good rotation player' and 'a beautiful man' but we find it so easy to put down our own players.

He's not a great player, he's not even very good but he has actually put in some important performances and has not been terrible for a squad option. In the long term you need better players in your first team but it's not like he has been preventing us from doing well.

He's not far behind what Park used to be, albeit worse.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

I like Lingard its just the miserable sod in me wants him to stop dancing and knuckle down to become more consistant.

This is the crux of the matter I think, the feeling that if he cut out the antics and social media posting he would improve as a player. I'm not a particular fan of any of this sideshow but I find it hard to believe Jose would let it go on if he genuinely thought it was adversely affecting Lingard's training and his performance in matches.

 

[BusbyMalone]

Some of the criticism on here is a little too fervent at times. I wouldn't classify it as hate, per se, but it does come dangerously close to it.

There's no doubt that the guy is inconsistent in his performances - that's probably why he's a squad player as opposed to a guaranteed starter - but he does offer a lot in that position. He's never been world class, and he never will be word class, but to say he doesn't bring anything to the table is wrong and untrue.

He's particularly effective in cup competitions. He's scored goals in Wembley finals to help us win trophies (i realise he can't live off these goals forever, but as goals go, they are big one's) and this season he scored two great goals against Swansea to help us progress in the Carabao Cup. So yeah, most of his goals have come in those cup competitions, but for someone who barely starts any Premier League games i suppose that's understandable.

The goal last night was also an important one, considering that we became a little complacent and allowed the opposition back in the game, he popped up at just the right time to settle everything down again with an outstanding solo effort. And say what you want against the guy, he has an eye for the spectacular.

He's also not averse to doing some of the donkey work that helps the supposedly more skilful players in the team. I know people scoff at the mention of hard work when using it in defense of Jesse, but it helps. Whether you want to admit it or not, it's an important aspect of the game (certainly under Mourinho) and he works at it tirelessly.

And lastly, he just comes across as a great fecking guy. Again, you can scoff at that and say "well i'm a great guy, too, i should play for them" but we all have an emotional attachment to the club and players like Jesse just solidifies that attachment. I know it may sound daft and silly, and just because a player has an emotional attachment to the fans and the club it doesn't automatically mean they should play for the club, but that's emotions for ya.

And what's football without them.

 

[el3mel]

So you don’t think he is capable of p,yang at PL level. That’s what you’re saying right?

I didn't say anything. What I said is if someone believes his level is championship, what's the problem in this ? It's not a crime.

 

[Minimalist]

I've practically given up on the forum...after 20 years. @Raoul @Niall I know you've been trying hard to get more new posters on the forum but it's seriously time for a mass cull because the place has got as bad as RAWK of late and it will drive away all the decent posters. Half the poster's I seriously doubt are even United fans. Quite simply, if someone starts attacking a United player or our manager in a way that if an oppo fan did that in the street he would get lynched by Reds then that should be bannable by itself.

What you’ve just said is literally what people criticise RAWK for.

Basically you want a forum full of boring top reds. What a utopia.

 

[limerickcitykid]

I didn't say anything. What I said is if someone believes his level is championship, what's the problem in this ? It's not a crime.

It's not a crime, just idiotic.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

To be honest I don't know why people still have an issue with him: I was a huge critic of his when he was starting on a consistent basis despite being extremely inconsistent. But this season he's turned into exactly what he should be and that's a squad player which is fine.

I have to admit though, he needed that performance last night as he's been pretty poor lately. My issue with him is that he looked so good and lively last night but he struggles to do that on a consistent basis. It was like watching a different player last night than what he's shown the last few games he's played.

He's grown on me this season to an extent and I'm happy to have him as a squad player. Much like Smalling who I've often been criticial of in the past, he's a good player to have in the squad.

I do think some are overly defensive of Lingard, though. I mean he clearly isn't everyone's cup of tea and as good as he was last night, he can have some very poor spells too. I do feel his bottom level at times is ridiculously low. If there's going to be mass praise of a good performance and all the "told you so's" then you have to take the rough with the smooth and accept the inevitable criticism when he has a bad game. This is the second thread of this ilk in a matter of months about Lingard and I personally find it counterproductive; I mean the people that really don't rate him will be more inclined to be overly harsh in their criticism due to threads like this.

All in all he's a good squad player who can be very frustrating but he's capable of very good games too. But some on here take any criticism of him way too personally although yes, some of the criticism of him when it turns to abuse is out of order.

Sums up my opinion on Lingard and the reactions to him. People go overboard both in their critique and praise of him. I had an issue with him being a starter but he's fine as a squad player as he has been this season.

With regards to not being able to produce great stuff regularly, that's how it works with decent players. They have the odd game/bunch of games they look really good in and then revert to their standard level. I expect the same to happen with young.

 

[Robbo's Shoulder]

I don’t get all the player bashing on here at times, as for Lingard, there is a really good player there somewhere, well worth a decent run in the side. Does anyone know his longest run of starts? Excellent squad player who has the ability to become a regular and important player for us.

 

[Lentwood]

Nobody hates Lingard he is just an average player who makes himself unlikeable because of his childish antics

I don’t care whether I like a player as an individual but if you are going to constantly act the prat of course you are going to risk getting some people’s back up

Having said all that, I would much rather Lingard play than Juan Mata who contributes nothing but because he is a ‘nice bloke’ seems to get a free ride.

“Juanism” The act of liking a player as a person and therefore believing that they are a good footballer. The opposite of “Lingardism”

 

[Lennon7]

No one hates him, some just think he’s not up to standard. I’ve never seen Lingard get as much stick as say Fellaini, Cleverley couple years ago, Mkhitaryan

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

I can't think of an outfield player, other than early season Pogba and Lukaku, who have strung more than a good couple of games together.
I'm not going to accuse anyone of giving any players a free ride, but genuine first team erst aren't reaching the standards of consistency that some demand of Lingard.

It's no secret that we have quite a few players who on the whole are underperforming this season, and that is why some of our performances have been pretty poor. In fact when you put it like that, It's pretty remarkable how well we are doing in the league and CL considering. But you have to address each player individually, as that is what the player performance threads are for.

Expecting Lingard to have 4-5 decentish games in a row isn't a big ask I don't think. I'm not expecting him to get the man of the match, just have some influence and not disappear like he does have a tendency to do. After all he is playing as a #10 for one of the biggest clubs in the World and earning £100,000 p.w (although I don't really like bringing the wage thing into it). He should be expected to have at least a small run of consistency, It's not like we are asking him to become the Balon D'Or here. A good squad player fills in when the starter(s) are struggling and plays well. That is what he done last night and now he has the chance to get a run of games behind him which is a chance he deserves.

I don't know what your criteria is in what you call a Manchester United player, But perhaps your standards are different to mine. I expect a good squad player to come in and play well the majority of the time they are called upon. If Ashley Young can come into the team as a squad player and play as well as he has, why is it such a big ask for Lingard to have 4-5 decent games in a row?

 

[Fridge chutney]

The timing of this post is legendary.

Mourinho, despite his many options, chooses Lingard as a valuable squad player. He has moments of magic, which for fans is a bonus. He is a local academy player, another big bonus. Performances like last night more than justify his inclusion in our squad.

Don't see the problem so many have with him.

 

[Red_Aaron]

Rio & Scholes comments on Jesse were interesting after the game, whilst they were undoubtedly OTT in a standard punditry kind of way they talked about how apparent his skills were as a youngster and how there was no doubt he was good enough to play at this level but always struggled with consistency in games and now needs to focus on improving that. Now that's not much different to what a lot of us say on here of course but they also talked about his game intelligence and how well he reads the game and this for me is the key point.

There's no question in my mind that Lingards football brain is top notch, you often see mou go to him first for substitutions especially if he's looking to change the shape. LVG was a fan of his too, another staunch systems man who valued Lingards ability to follow the game plan. When lingard first broke into the side under LVG and played in a 3 with Rashford and Martial we were transformed and that front 3 carried us through to the FA Cup. I think Martial in particular really likes playing with Lingard and a lot of his better performances have come with him on the pitch.

Lingard is a perfectly good squad player who is still improving too imo, too many fans are keen to write players off by 21 if they're not establish internationals which is ridiculous.

 

[villain]

Nobody hates Lingard he is just an average player who makes himself unlikeable because of his childish antics

I don’t care whether I like a player as an individual but if you are going to constantly act the prat of course you are going to risk getting some people’s back up

Having said all that, I would much rather Lingard play than Juan Mata who contributes nothing but because he is a ‘nice bloke’ seems to get a free ride.

“Juanism” The act of liking a player as a person and therefore believing that they are a good footballer. The opposite of “Lingardism”

What does his personality have to do with him as a player?

What does he do that's childish, or 'acting the prat'? He's just goofy, likes to laugh and obviously brings a lot of personality to the changing room.

Why should what he does off the field, affect your opinion of him as a player - you don't know the guy personally.

 

[Hugh Jass]

"Juanism."

 

[Lentwood]

What does his personality have to do with him as a player?

What does he do that's childish, or 'acting the prat'? He's just goofy, likes to laugh and obviously brings a lot of personality to the changing room.

Why should what he does off the field, affect your opinion of him as a player - you don't know the guy personally.

I’m saying I don’t let his personality effect my view of him as a player but I am saying the reason he doesn’t get so much rope as other players with some fans is because he seems very childish and is always dicking around on social media!

For the record I think he is an average player regardless of how he behaves and whether I like him or not

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

The timing of this post is legendary.

Mourinho, despite his many options, chooses Lingard as a valuable squad player. He has moments of magic, which for fans is a bonus. He is a local academy player, another big bonus. Performances like last night more than justify his inclusion in our squad.

Don't see the problem so many have with him.

People have problem with everyone in our team. If CAF democracy ruled United we would have like 5 players left at best with constant moaning about squad depth, but then we sell players after a run of 1 bad game .

 

[Random Task]

Lingardism is the new racism.

All you Jesse haters are simply lingardists.

 

[Random Task]

People have problem with everyone in our team. If CAF democracy ruled United we would have like 5 players left at best with constant moaning about squad depth, but then we sell players after a run of 1 bad game .

That's just football fans being football fans the world over. We're known for over overly fickle nature with regard to our own players, love them one minute hate them the next.

 

[golden_blunder]

I didn't say anything. What I said is if someone believes his level is championship, what's the problem in this ? It's not a crime.

No not a crime but highly stupid

 

[AR87]

There's no question in my mind that Lingards football brain is top notch, you often see mou go to him first for substitutions especially if he's looking to change the shape. LVG was a fan of his too, another staunch systems man who valued Lingards ability to follow the game plan. When lingard first broke into the side under LVG and played in a 3 with Rashford and Martial we were transformed and that front 3 carried us through to the FA Cup. I think Martial in particular really likes playing with Lingard and a lot of his better performances have come with him on the pitch.

Agree with all of this. Lingard is great to interplay with for our attackers, because he always shows for the ball and has good close control and technical ability which allows him to combine well even if he rarely will play an amazing killer ball.

Lingard is a perfectly solid squad player. The issue for United is that Mkhi and Mata have been utter crap this season, not the performance of Lingard as a squad player. I also feel Lingard routinely plays better when he's allowed to play centrally and in lineups without Mata, who moves into similar positions and towards the left as Lingard.

When he plays centrally you'll routinely see Lingard make forward runs to stretch defenses ahead of the striker, something none of our other attackers do very well. This is how the opener was created as he received a pass from Lukaku who dropped to receive the ball from Young.

I would play him in the exact same setup against Arsenal and live with the results. Unlike Mkhi and Mata he has actually earned another start in the side.

 

[fellaini's barber]

So far behind (8 points)?
It’s not the fault of squad players, it’s the fault of successive bollox coaches taking us backwards and not improving the areas of the first team that a blind man could identify

When I mentioned elite teams I was not even thinking about shitty, they're just having a very good season.I'm talking about the likes of Madrid,Barca and Bayern (before this season). We've been playing catch up with them for a very long time and 1 of the major reasons for this is simply their lack of tolerance for average players. We just keep filling up our squad with mediocre players and hold on to them for all sorts of reasons and wonder why we're crap. Local lad, does a job, loyal servant, loves the club, puts a shift,club legend, 'movement',he might come good etc. If Lingard is a squad player then who is the first team player ahead of him? Mkhi? Some of these teams I mentioned have 3rd choice players on their bench who never play better than those two

 

[golden_blunder]

News flash; we never have or never will be a team of galacticos like Madrid

Comparing to them is pointless, we need to be the best in our own playground first. We’re not that far away.

It’s not the likes of Lingard holding us back, it’s the first teamers not performing

 

[villain]

I’m saying I don’t let his personality effect my view of him as a player but I am saying the reason he doesn’t get so much rope as other players with some fans is because he seems very childish and is always dicking around on social media!

For the record I think he is an average player regardless of how he behaves and whether I like him or not

The only childish thing I see, is using social media to decide someone is dicking around in their free time.

 

[Yorkeontop]

A limited footballer, overpaid even but he is efficient (he doesn't dawdle on the ball like say Tony V) and has an abundance of self confidence (see those celebrations and big goals).

 

[Dominant]

Well he will start on a Saturday, and as the rule of football generally goes, if you play well you stay in the team. He goes in and out of the team usually because he will have one good game and then feck it for himself by going missing in the chances he has after that.
Now he has a real chance to kick on with some big games coming up and the likes of Mata and Mkhitaryan out of form. Hopefully we see this version of Lingard in these games.

Before watford, when was the last league game Lingard played?

 

[do.ob]

I don't think this has anything to do with Lingard personally. It's just a common behaviour among football fans to overly blame less popular or talented players for lots of things, even if they are infact still a help to the team and do ok.
Maybe because they pale a bit in comparison with the top players. Stuff like confirmation bias may play a role too. But I'm fairly certain that every club has a (couple of) player(s) who gets treated like Lingaard.

 

[Cascarino]

I've practically given up on the forum...after 20 years. @Raoul @Niall I know you've been trying hard to get more new posters on the forum but it's seriously time for a mass cull because the place has got as bad as RAWK of late and it will drive away all the decent posters. Half the poster's I seriously doubt are even United fans. Quite simply, if someone starts attacking a United player or our manager in a way that if an oppo fan did that in the street he would get lynched by Reds then that should be bannable by itself.

It is the opposite of Rawk. It would be Rawk-like to ban posters for criticising players.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

Before watford, when was the last league game Lingard played?

Chelsea. The last one he started was the Huddersfield defeat in which he was crap. He also started the horrendous Basel game lately aswell in the CL. That was his last 2 starts prior to last night.

Not sure where you are going with this?

 

[Siorac]

It is the opposite of Rawk. It would be Rawk-like to ban posters for criticising players.

Yeah, that post was dripping with unintentional irony.

 

[SachinJ22]

Just shut up and support our own players.. for feck’s sake. All these Lingard bashing is getting fecking tedious. And you call yourself Manchester United fans...

So you supported every Manchester United player till now? Without criticising any player? He has done okay and works hard but misses easy passes. According to you we shouldn't criticise any player, manager, or the team irregardless of how the team or a specific player plays or a manager manages.

 

[Raoul]

So you supported every Manchester United player till now? Without criticising any player? He has done okay and works hard but misses easy passes. According to you we shouldn't criticise any player, manager, or the team irregardless of how the team or a specific player plays or a manager manages.

You're not going to win this argument.