Aye, it most certainly was. Just a random memory that sticks out. Used to be gutted when he made the teamsheet.
How bad have our injuries really been this season?
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
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The worry at this point is that now we can’t even get a decent evaluation of ETH in the run in and will be left in limbo going into the summer instead of being able to make a firm decision either way on his future based on the performances/results he’s able to obtain.
We've fielded like 10 different CB pairs, used 5 different CBs somewhat equally, played 6 different players at left back and started the season without a striker with various CMs missing throughout the season.
Dalot, Onana, Bruno, Rashford and McTominay have been consistently fit throughout.
I don't like the statistics posted. Need to see number of days out weighed against number of injuries to see the significance. In any case it wouldn't matter as much if the 2nd choice right back and 3rd choice CB are out a lot if the first choices are always fit.
Dalot, Onana, Bruno, Rashford and McTominay have been consistently fit throughout.
I don't like the statistics posted. Need to see number of days out weighed against number of injuries to see the significance. In any case it wouldn't matter as much if the 2nd choice right back and 3rd choice CB are out a lot if the first choices are always fit.
Current injuries are nothing out of the ordinary. Just bad squad planning if missing an injury prone left back completely ruins any chance of playing decent football.
If you click on the link to the second resource I posted you can find all of that (for 2020-21 and 2021-22 anyway) and a load of other ways to analyse injuries. They even do a “cost of injury” analysis, taking into account the value of the player injured. Unsurprisingly we’re by far the worst afflicted team using that metric.
How much of our injuries are caused by our intense ping pong transition style football? With a huge gaping chasm in midfield and constant turnovers, every one of our games is so intense and end to end.
Is this having an effect at all?
Is this having an effect at all?
We really don’t know. But based on the data that keeps turning up about our players generally covering less distance and doing less high intensity sprints than our rivals over the last few years that doesn’t seem likely.
All stats show we are hit much worse than other teams.
It's partly true though. Okay, LB is a bad example because the backup is also long-term injured. But it's ridiculous that United has next to no serious depth along the entire front line, and that the backup midfielders and CBs have a pretty different profile from the preferred starters. Overall that's obviously a result of a decade long flip flopping in style, made worse by an overall poor approach to transfers and squad building. Or at least, that's how I understand the 'bad squad planning' of the post.
They are out of the ordinary but I agree better squad planning might have meant we had another left footed CB by now. Or have kept Reguilón on loan. Or sold Martial for a non sick note.
Lots of ifs and buts.
The recruitment is a factor. I feel like I've mentioned this a lot, but every single outfield player we signed in the summer came in with existing injury problems. Even the loanees who came in to cover injuries!
You add that to a squad that played in more matches than anyone else in Europe last term (yes, one game more than City), and it's hardly ideal. It's probably an area where the medical and recruitment departments having a word might have been helpful. Kind of that 'joined-up thinking' malarkey that sporting directors are supposed to help with.
And speaking of departments, we had a new medical head start work in September. Maybe he left his magic sponges at Arsenal? Or maybe it's just that that area is in an period of transition and is overwhelmed, leading to more problems?
I'd be surprised if INEOS don't have some kind of investigation into why we're getting so many injuries and these are all the kind of things that could well turn up as contributing factors.
I sincerely hope so.
Around ten extra minutes each game when players are the most exposed to injuries doesn’t help.
Stupid rule, but I guess that’s down to VAR checks. Also a stupid thing that let players get cold in the middle of the action.
Stupid rule, but I guess that’s down to VAR checks. Also a stupid thing that let players get cold in the middle of the action.
Big clubs with big budgets should never use injuries as an excuse and it makes me laugh whenever i hear it, it is the ones on the other end of the scale that feel the pinch.
The addition of 5 subs to make it easier on the big clubs as well....get over it!
The addition of 5 subs to make it easier on the big clubs as well....get over it!
Spot on, we only really notice the injury accumulation due to some of the dross occupying our squad currently.
Spurs were missing Son, Kulusevski and Maddison against us. City had Haaland but were missing De Bruyne, who is their best player in my opinion.
Most teams have had very bad periods with injuries this season. Obviously we notice our own injuries most, but look at Newcastle & Brighton, they had injuries for large periods of the season. When we played Newcastle they had played the same 11 for something like 90 minutes in 3 games over a small period right before they played us, including the CL tie against PSG, if I recall correctly.
What was frustrating for us was that when we had injuries we would leave obvious options on the bench in some games and play people out of position. I remember arguing with posters that it was ridiculous to play Shaw at CB and Dalot at LB, with Varane on the bench. Eventually ETH tried bringing in Varane and moving Shaw back to LB and it steadied the ship a bit.
The only thing that has rivaled our injury woes this season is out set piece taking. It has become a piss take...
Having a settled CB or even back 4 is important for continuity, this season has been a disaster , Shaw out back then out again Martinez out for long time gets back then picks up another injury , Varane has been out Maguire has ..Dalot been left right . Then CM again been a disaster, you've got a hodge podge of players in differing positions. This season it's been a few games were ETH can play a same 11, that's gone again.
Top 4 has gone now the momentum has gone with Hojlund out Shaw out Martinez out. By time they get back I can't see us picking up enough points and they have to be wins.. I'd rather win 2 games lose 1 win another 2 .. draws not good enough..
Top 4 has gone now the momentum has gone with Hojlund out Shaw out Martinez out. By time they get back I can't see us picking up enough points and they have to be wins.. I'd rather win 2 games lose 1 win another 2 .. draws not good enough..
We’ve had injuries yes but so has everyone else. Injuries or not the players are not united quality we’d still be struggling for 4th. No excuses!
No problem. Not sure if it adds anything to what you’ve posted earlier but thought I’d still share that.
It’s actually crazy that we’ve been one injury to Dalot away from fielding a defense of:
3rd RB - 2nd CB - 5th CB - 3rd LB
…for multiple weeks.
Of course not all of our defensive absentees have missed games at the same time, but still…
Add the three players capable of playing DM and shielding that makeshift defense missing large chunks of the season, and it’s pretty obvious why we’re conceding plenty of chances and sometimes goals too.
Casemiro and?
Amrabat and to an extent Mainoo.
It's been absolutely clear for months that our injury situation is the worst in the league
The only question at this point is: are we just unlucky or is there a serious issue with our training methods/medical team?
The only question at this point is: are we just unlucky or is there a serious issue with our training methods/medical team?
I truly hope the new owners/directors order an external evaluation into this.
Incredibly bad, not only have we been without our best players for large chunks of the season, we've also been hit with multiple injuries in the same position which is an absolute killer.
There is no team in professional football who wouldn't be impacted by losing 5 or 6 CBs and three LBs for a prolonged period.
Other teams have had injuries for sure, Liverpool recently, for example...but they aren't losing player after player in the same position. I'm sure we played about 6-10 games with 6th/7th choice CB combinations. Imagine Liverpool without Van Dijk, Konate, Matip, Gomez, Quansah etc...all at the same time...and Robertson and Tsimakis out too for good measure. Its unworkable.
There is no team in professional football who wouldn't be impacted by losing 5 or 6 CBs and three LBs for a prolonged period.
Other teams have had injuries for sure, Liverpool recently, for example...but they aren't losing player after player in the same position. I'm sure we played about 6-10 games with 6th/7th choice CB combinations. Imagine Liverpool without Van Dijk, Konate, Matip, Gomez, Quansah etc...all at the same time...and Robertson and Tsimakis out too for good measure. Its unworkable.
It definitely does. It’s a nice way to show by games who has been missing and also that final game by game combination for United just shows we’ve been consistently so far from being able to field a proper top 4 side regularly let alone a title challenging one that some would have you believe was the expectation for this season (it wasn’t).
It actually ties in quite nicely with my thread on the defence actually all things considered being quite good. Which I feel weird saying but when you look at us relative to the league we’re actually doing ok despite all this.
c) None of the above. When every game we play turns into a basketball match, constantly counter attacking or being countered against, then we’ll inevitably pick up a lot of injuries.
This is compounded by mysterious and incredibly lengthy injuries to the likes of Mount and Malacia. But every club has one or two long term absentees most seasons. For example, Partey and Timber at Arsenal this season.
In reality ten hag is the one that is emphasising our injury record at every opportunity and using it as a catch all excuse for why we so often look so poor.
We look to be completely uncoached most games and his excuse will often just be to point at the injuries.
Many of the players that have been missing for prolonged periods appear injury prone e..g Shaw, Mount, varane, martinez so it's not exactly the biggest surprise they keep getting injured especially when they have been rushed back at times
We look to be completely uncoached most games and his excuse will often just be to point at the injuries.
Many of the players that have been missing for prolonged periods appear injury prone e..g Shaw, Mount, varane, martinez so it's not exactly the biggest surprise they keep getting injured especially when they have been rushed back at times
Well I'd say that relates to 'training methods' but I'm not sure that it explains it anyway, do the stats show that our players run more on average than other teams?
Ironically Bruno is usually right at the top of any stats of distance covered but rarely gets injured
It even gives the false impression Spurs have nearly had it as bad as us, whereas if you do it by technically first/best XI and remove direct red card suspensions:
Onana (1) ------------------------ Vicario (0)
Dalot (0) -------------------------- Porro (2)
Varane (7) ------------------------ Romero (3)
Martinez (29) ------------------- VdV (9)
Shaw (24) ------------------------ Udogie (5)
Casemiro (17) ----------------- Bissouma (7)
Mainoo (15) --------------------- Bentancur (16)
Bruno (1) -------------------------- Maddison (11)
Garnacho (0) -------------------- Kulusevski (2)
Rashford (4) --------------------- Son (5)
Hojlund (9) ----------------------- Richarlison (5)
107 ------------------------------------------ 55
Even down to the main back ups:
AWB (19) ------------------------- Royal (0)
Maguire (12) ------------------- Davies (3)
Lindelof (11) ------------------- Dragusin (0 but only signed in Jan)
Malacia (39) ------------------- Sessegnon (30)
Amrabat (12) ------------------- Hojberjg (0)
McTominay (2) ---------------- Sarr (5)
Mount (26) ----------------------- Lo Celso (10)
Antony (7) ------------------------ Johnson (2)
Sancho (26) --------------------- Perisic (17)
Martial (16) ---------------------- Solomon (23)
170 ------------------------------------------ 90
Onana (1) ------------------------ Vicario (0)
Dalot (0) -------------------------- Porro (2)
Varane (7) ------------------------ Romero (3)
Martinez (29) ------------------- VdV (9)
Shaw (24) ------------------------ Udogie (5)
Casemiro (17) ----------------- Bissouma (7)
Mainoo (15) --------------------- Bentancur (16)
Bruno (1) -------------------------- Maddison (11)
Garnacho (0) -------------------- Kulusevski (2)
Rashford (4) --------------------- Son (5)
Hojlund (9) ----------------------- Richarlison (5)
107 ------------------------------------------ 55
Even down to the main back ups:
AWB (19) ------------------------- Royal (0)
Maguire (12) ------------------- Davies (3)
Lindelof (11) ------------------- Dragusin (0 but only signed in Jan)
Malacia (39) ------------------- Sessegnon (30)
Amrabat (12) ------------------- Hojberjg (0)
McTominay (2) ---------------- Sarr (5)
Mount (26) ----------------------- Lo Celso (10)
Antony (7) ------------------------ Johnson (2)
Sancho (26) --------------------- Perisic (17)
Martial (16) ---------------------- Solomon (23)
170 ------------------------------------------ 90
We still lead the ACL table with three at least (Mings, Buendia and Kamara).
Only thing I'd say with Man. United is you pretty much had all your attackers available all season, can't think of any games Fernandes or Rashford have missed and Garnacho also available but just wasn't being picked much in the first six weeks. Hojlund also available from September right up to the injury he picked up a few weeks ago.
When I think of all of Chelsea (Nkunku), Newcastle (Barnes/Isak/Wilson) and Brighton (Joao Pedro/Mitoma) they've had more disruption in the final third.
Only thing I'd say with Man. United is you pretty much had all your attackers available all season, can't think of any games Fernandes or Rashford have missed and Garnacho also available but just wasn't being picked much in the first six weeks. Hojlund also available from September right up to the injury he picked up a few weeks ago.
When I think of all of Chelsea (Nkunku), Newcastle (Barnes/Isak/Wilson) and Brighton (Joao Pedro/Mitoma) they've had more disruption in the final third.
Has Martial fallen so low that he doesn't even register for you? Also Amad.We still lead the ACL table with three at least (Mings, Buendia and Kamara).
Only thing I'd say with Man. United is you pretty much had all your attackers available all season, can't think of any games Fernandes or Rashford have missed and Garnacho also available but just wasn't being picked much in the first six weeks. Hojlund also available from September right up to the injury he picked up a few weeks ago.
When I think of all of Chelsea (Nkunku), Newcastle (Barnes/Isak/Wilson) and Brighton (Joao Pedro/Mitoma) they've had more disruption in the final third.
Yep pretty much!
Hasn't Amad been on the bench since December and Ten Hag really hasn't used him that much even as a sub so suggests he just doesn't think he's ready for week in week out prem football. Unusued sub in 6 prem matches played since 30th December.
Will get more chance under the next manager.
Having a squad of players and having depth are 2 entirely different things. We have the former. We lack depth because of poor player succession planning and poor recruitment.
The lack of playing identity meant that players were just brought in to fit into the system of the day. There was no strategic thought only baseless opportunism.
Injuries or not, our quality with these bunch of players is finite/limited.
The lack of playing identity meant that players were just brought in to fit into the system of the day. There was no strategic thought only baseless opportunism.
Injuries or not, our quality with these bunch of players is finite/limited.
I really like this explanation. We have bodies but not ones that replicate reasonably what their superiors do.
The problem is the squad. We have such bad replacements or no replacements at all. We find ourselves having to switch a number of players from their best position because one certain player is injured.
Take Höjlund for example: means we move Rashford from the left (his best position) play him as striker. We swich Garnacho to the left (he's better on the right) and play Antony (who's no good anywhere) on the right.
We lose Martinez and we have nobody anywhere near his level to take over. Same with Shaw!
If we have a fit Shaw, Martinez, and Höjlund (only 3 players) we reach top 4. Without them midtable at best!
Neither Liverpool, City, Arsenal, Spurs, Villa, or even Chelsea have that problem!
Take Höjlund for example: means we move Rashford from the left (his best position) play him as striker. We swich Garnacho to the left (he's better on the right) and play Antony (who's no good anywhere) on the right.
We lose Martinez and we have nobody anywhere near his level to take over. Same with Shaw!
If we have a fit Shaw, Martinez, and Höjlund (only 3 players) we reach top 4. Without them midtable at best!
Neither Liverpool, City, Arsenal, Spurs, Villa, or even Chelsea have that problem!
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Feel like we burnt out last season by going hard in all comps + mid-season WC and have never recovered.
Both the injuries we've suffered this time around, and drop-offs in player form, seem to have hampered those most central to last year's system.
Casemiro, Shaw and Martinez can't stay fit and Bruno, Varane, Eriksen and Rashford look shadows of the players they were last season. Even formerly reliable options such as AWB and Dalot have been impacted.
Maybe we're due a good season next year by this logic.
Both the injuries we've suffered this time around, and drop-offs in player form, seem to have hampered those most central to last year's system.
Casemiro, Shaw and Martinez can't stay fit and Bruno, Varane, Eriksen and Rashford look shadows of the players they were last season. Even formerly reliable options such as AWB and Dalot have been impacted.
Maybe we're due a good season next year by this logic.