The Firestarter
Full Member
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2010
- Messages
- 28,228
That Silva banner
It's because of him that this small club won so much. More players should do it.Great player. Disappointing he's spent his whole prime at a small club.
Aguero has 43 goals in 64 PL games against Chelsea, United, Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs now.
Aguero's scoring record is far better than Rooney's though, consistency-wise. A comparison between the two probably only holds weight if you'd argue Rooney was a far better all-round player, and I'm not sure that's at all the case.Not sure where the Henry comparisons come from. Agüero had never even been player of the season. He is incredibly consistent season after season, and he always is one of the best players in the league, but never unquestionably the best. Rooney is a more appropriate comparison. Different players, but still.
He was ridiculously clinical in his Blackburn days. Managed three consecutive 30+ goal seasons in the league at Blackburn. And while he didn't quite retain the same consistency at Newcastle he was still prolific for them.Was Shearer really that good? Back when he was in his prime, you could only catch the odd Premier League game over here, and he did not play a lot of European football.
Missed a penalty in the shoot-out against my local side Partizan back in 2003, allowing Partizan to reach the CL group stage. Will always love him for that.
SAF tried to sign him 3 times, should tell you everything. He rarely went back to sign a player that had previously turned him down.Was Shearer really that good? Back when he was in his prime, you could only catch the odd Premier League game over here, and he did not play a lot of European football.
Missed a penalty in the shoot-out against my local side Partizan back in 2003, allowing Partizan to reach the CL group stage. Will always love him for that.
I made the thread and even I see that most of the time!I keep reading the title as "How close to Aguero is Henry/Shearer".
Hence why I've said that they were different players. Rooney rarely played as a focal point of our attack and Agüero plays there 95% of the time. He's undoubtedly a better scorer though and would probably go down in history as a better player than Rooney.Aguero's scoring record is far better than Rooney's though, consistency-wise. A comparison between the two probably only holds weight if you'd argue Rooney was a far better all-round player, and I'm not sure that's at all the case.
Well, I am, and I think most coaches or players would tell you the same. Wayne Rooney played striker, no 10, left and right forward and winger, and CM, for one of the worlds best teams ever and the national team. Aguero was originally benched by Guardiola because of his all round weaknesses, and have often been criticized for not being able to compliment Messi at Argentina well enough.Aguero's scoring record is far better than Rooney's though, consistency-wise. A comparison between the two probably only holds weight if you'd argue Rooney was a far better all-round player, and I'm not sure that's at all the case.
Yeah, he was a different beast before his knee injury at Newcastle. Oozed danger anywhere within 30 yards from goal. Quicker then so defences couldn't push up too far (because invariably Sutton would win the first ball), but stand off him and he could crack one in from range. In that 1993-1996 period he was both a great scorer and a scorer of great goals. I take @Hound Dog's point that he didn't get a lot of exposure to continental competition, but Shearer never had any problems threatening top class defences. Always showed up at international tournaments - 9 goals altogether - and scored against big sides (Holland, Germany, Argentina).He was ridiculously clinical in his Blackburn days. Managed three consecutive 30+ goal seasons in the league at Blackburn. And while he didn't quite retain the same consistency at Newcastle he was still prolific for them.
You can probably count the number of games Rooney played right or left wing on one hand respectively. He played #10 when there were other, better goalscorers in the team (Van Persie). He dropped to CM when he could no longer cut it in advanced positions and he was never superb there or close to being one of the best in that position.Wayne Rooney played striker, no 10, left and right forward and winger, and CM, for one of the worlds best teams ever and the national team.
Good post. I probably agree with all that.A factor not mentioned in full in this discussion is the versions of the players as a whole. Shearer had three iterations, Aguero has had two, and Henry was fortunate enough to have no debilitating injuries that changed his game until he left England.
Shearer
vers 1. Blackburn and first season at Newcastle. Fast; mobile; worked the entire line of a defensive unit both inside and outside his opposing centrebacks; could beat defenders to the near post on short-burst acceleration; great leap allied with great heading ability;ambidextrous; long-range shooter and was, essentially, an immaculate centre-forward and arguably the most balanced and rounded since Van Basten (alongside peak Shevchenko). Kun, never in his career has been close to this version of Shearer, and this version of Shearer can easily go head-to-head with Henry because he was an absolute terror for defences before he even got into the final third.
vers 2. Numerous injuries took away his top-end pace as well as a chunk of his agility and mobility and he was no longer able to fly by centrebacks or rely on superior pace to his markers. This version of Shearer was forced to be more canny, more close contact and reliant on decisive actions at key moments that won games. Still prolific, still extremely dangerous and impressive, but not a physical marvel anymore. This version of Shearer was neck and neck with Aguero, imo.
vers 3. numerous injuries took away a good chunk of his pace and he no longer made some of the old runs, instead tussling directly with CB's and jostling for position through brawn, grit and determination. More like an old-fashioned CF who was in the wars every game. His GPG ratio went down a lot in this period and actually damaged his imperious numbers from the two previous incarnations. Aguero, to date, is comfortably better than this iteration.
Aguero
vers 1. Was likened to Romario and had fabulous short dribbles and technical scrambles with defenders and would use his low centre of gravity to beguile and turn them inside out before converting even a half chance with clinical, unerring accuracy. This version of Aguero was touted to go on and be a world star and potential all-timer.
vers 2. Injuries robbed him of those swift sudden turns and dribbles so he became more fox-like and more focused on 6-10 yard play close to the goal.Obviously has his moments outside the box (like today) but his threat only really comes alive inside specific perimeters, especially show when contrasted with vers 1 Shearer, or Henry. This version of Aguero does not have the all-round game or threat of vers 1 Shearer or peak Henry, which is why he has been overlooked for individual awards and has barely made any mark in Europe or on the international stage. Is he a bad player? Of course not, but this PL era is weak in terms of defenders and defences and he's playing in a team that make it impossible to focus on him, which is where so many of the exploits he benefits from are apparent, and incidentally, why he doesn't offer the same threat for his country or against superior defences and teams in Europe. Context is important here and I feel Aguero does not have these things weighted against him like he should do.
Henry
Basically had a perfect run of it as the best version of himself until the very end of his time at Arsenal when his back started giving him a little grief. No question he was exceptional in England, absolutely no question at all, but he remained 'prime' where the other two had to modify their games because of injuries. Vers 1 of Shearer was a marvel, just in a different way to Henry, and those 3 seasons of his are just as impressive as what we saw of Henry. Where Henry takes a dump on both of the others from a great height is when his assists and ability to be a decoy for others to thrive equally is factored in. Henry was the focal point of Arsenal and he made them tick, not the other way round. He was Silva and Aguero rolled into one with lashing of Sterling for the fact he had so much play go through him, drove the opposing players out of position with selfless or ingenuously intricate play whilst also scoring ridiculous goals at a ridiculous rate. Nevertheless, it shouldn't be forgotten how injuries didn't take away prime attributes from him - Henry getting a pace and acceleration docking like Shearer did, cannot do some of the things he became renowned for; Henry not being able to twist and turn like he did would have also forced him to be a different kind of forward, so context is important.
That's seriously impressive. Genius signing by City.
Very impressive.
I think thats a bit of a myth. If you look back at the 90/2000s the defending was just as bad.It's hard to judge as the level of defending at present in the Permier League is horrendously poor and has been for some time. People get goals where players are just too lazy or useless to track a runner...it happens all the time even in the big games.
It was way worse, mostly. Seems to me only top teams had a clue. Whole game done changed.I think thats a bit of a myth. If you look back at the 90/2000s the defending was just as bad.
He was a great strikerWas Shearer really that good? Back when he was in his prime, you could only catch the odd Premier League game over here, and he did not play a lot of European football.
Missed a penalty in the shoot-out against my local side Partizan back in 2003, allowing Partizan to reach the CL group stage. Will always love him for that.
Agree.It was worse.
Just look at full matches from the start of the Premier League era and take your conclusions. Or WC's.
The development of the game makes everything looks worse compared with the past but all the changes in the rules be it offsides, switch from man marking to zonal marking, higher pressing, counterpressing, its just a total different dynamic.
Add to that the Bosman ruling where the top teams from England, Spain, Bayern, Juve, PSG are multinational squads with high level players for each position, and its easier to destroy normal teams while everyone will say its explained by shit defending.
By mistake I deleted the original post I replied to you.Agree.
Also... Just look at a team like Burnley who pretty much defend their way into the mid-table each year, taking points from the big clubs regularly along with quite a few other smaller clubs.
Used to be a lot more scrappy goals, goals from mistakes, defenders horribly mistiming tackles etc. Most goals now come from tight positions with an amount of luck or after a team has broken down every wall by pure skill or tactic. I don't have statistics for it but I don't think crossing is as common as it was for creating chances anymore, probably because there is less room in and around the box. Different dynamic as you said.
I think the old PL is more similar to what the Championship is looking like these days.
You know what. Discussions like these are really fascinating because you want to find out whats right, but it is just impossible to conclude fairly. Put Shearer in this era and Aguero in the other and who knows what would be the result. That is also why records are important for players, only thing that matters for strikers in the end is goals scored.By mistake I deleted the original post I replied to you.
Anyway you understood what was my intention. I like to watch football from the 90's era because it was when I started following football, and I think its understandable we always have the sensation the players, defenders, teams from that era... everything was better.
And the more I watch while its true there were great players on those eras, reality is even simple things as scouting the opponents was very basic, sometimes it was done by sending someone from your staff to a game to analyze the opponents.
This just to say its difficult to say Aguero scores more because the defenses are shit, or Shearer wasn't as good because we wasn't as tested at European level.
Both were great on their era, its just the realities where they played are totally different. Shearer never played on a supersquad for example. I respect both players from the present or from that era.
Its the neverending story.You know what. Discussions like these are really fascinating because you want to find out whats right, but it is just impossible to conclude fairly. Put Shearer in this era and Aguero in the other and who knows what would be the result. That is also why records are important for players, only thing that matters for strikers in the end is goals scored.
You make it sound like you either didn’t see much of Rooney or Agüero before 2013 or disn’t understand much of it, if you believe Aguero affected games as a no 10 the way Rooney did when he played anywhere in the forward line.You can probably count the number of games Rooney played right or left wing on one hand respectively. He played #10 when there were other, better goalscorers in the team (Van Persie). He dropped to CM when he could no longer cut it in advanced positions and he was never superb there or close to being one of the best in that position.
Aguero is a superior dribbler and finisher and has also played #10/SS at Atletico Madrid. He has superior close-control, first touch; better with both feet and a better short passer for short combinations and 1-2 play. He is a more complete forward IMO. Rooney maybe has long range passing and work-rate over him.
No it really wasn't.I think thats a bit of a myth. If you look back at the 90/2000s the defending was just as bad.
I know people here love the early ‘90s United side but, unless you had a ‘90s ref who let them get away with murder, the 2007-08 side would trash them.Agree.
Also... Just look at a team like Burnley who pretty much defend their way into the mid-table each year, taking points from the big clubs regularly along with quite a few other smaller clubs.
Used to be a lot more scrappy goals, goals from mistakes, defenders horribly mistiming tackles etc. Most goals now come from tight positions with an amount of luck or after a team has broken down every wall by pure skill or tactic. I don't have statistics for it but I don't think crossing is as common as it was for creating chances anymore, probably because there is less room in and around the box. Different dynamic as you said.
I think the old PL is more similar to what the Championship is looking like these days.
Rooney was not a pure goal scorer and he didn't lead the line always.Shamelessly stolen from reddit. The top 10 players of the Premier League era when it comes to goals/assists.
Henry & Aguero are absolute freaks when you look at that.
Aguero is 48 goals behind Rooney with 262 less appearances