IDF attacking the activists' boats

[holyland red]

It was an international aid mission. There is no confirmation of the nationalities of the dead.

Most are Turks from what we hear here. At least one is Israeli.

 

[Eyepopper]

Disgraceful.... but hey its Israel, aren't they pretty much allowed to do whatever they want?

One of the great legacies of George Bush is that countries allied to the US can now seemingly do what they like as long as they dress it up as being action against 'terrorists'.

 

[holyland red]

Wrong, Isreal wouldn not transfer all the cargo, it'd stop any items it didn't want getting through.

True.

The point of the group is to brake the seige and not accept that Israel and Egypt have a right to decide what enters Gaza

The point of Israel is that it decides what goes through as long as Hamas is dedicated to the destruction of Israel.

 

[WeasteDevil]

The point of Israel is that it decides what goes through as long as Hamas is dedicated to the destruction of Israel.

Half of the argument is that Israel shouldn't even exist.

 

[holyland red]

Of course fearless,and nothing to with the little kids who will go to bed hungry tonight because Israel are trying to starve them out/to death.

Do you really believe that Gazans are being starved to death? For how long hve they been starved "to death"? What the death toll from hunger there?

 

[holyland red]

Half of the argument is that Israel shouldn't even exist.

Exactly, and as we can't negotiate this issue we are left in a position where we don't give a feck. Even if you decide to stop buying Israeli products.

 

[utdalltheway]

Public relations disaster for the Israelis, at least right now. unless they can find weapons on these ships then they come across very badly.
wonder how loud they would have cried had this happened to their ships.

 

[Mozza]

True.



The point of Israel is that it decides what goes through as long as Hamas is dedicated to the destruction of Israel.

Only through strength of arms and diplomacy, the seige won't survive this incident

 

[Sultan]

True.



The point of Israel is that it decides what goes through as long as Hamas is dedicated to the destruction of Israel.

The convoy was carrying medical supplies, building materials, prefabricated homes and hundreds of electric wheelchairs.

Sure sounds like a real threat to the security of Israel

 

[holyland red]

Only through strength of arms and diplomacy, the seige won't survive this incident

This certianly could result in the end of the blockade. The diplomatic war is already on.

 

[skeeta]

Very young IDF men were probably trained to killed and were nervous and it was a new operation; troops are always prone to make mistakes. But this does not seem like a mistake but rather a deliberate show of force, 63 miles off-shore and it is high time to call Israeli action for what it is, Piracy at Sea.

Individual Senators and representative in the US are going to saddened at this but yet are going to extremely mindful that there going to be elections in the fall. The US should be very strong and perhaps use this as means of futhering The Mitchell Mission by saying force should not used and peace is what you need.

 

[holyland red]

The convoy was carrying humanitarian aid carrying medical supplies, building materials, prefabricated homes and hundreds of electric wheelchairs.

Sure sounds like a real threat to the security of Israel

Building materials are not allowed in. The rest could have been transferred at the border crossings.

 

[Tibs]

They could have blown up the aid ships, still, no punishment for Israel as they are above International Law

 

[Mozza]

Building materials are not allowed in. The rest could have been transferred at the border crossings.

This is why the Flotila exists, Israel has no right to decide what enters Gaza

 

[Eyepopper]

Some of the responses in the Irish press.

Minister for Foreign Affairs Micheál Martin said today he has summoned the Israeli ambassador to Ireland Dr Zion Evrony to a meeting this afternoon. He said the ambassador "is currently endeavouring to establish the full facts as they emerge”.

In a statement this morning, Mr Martin said he was "gravely concerned" over the storming of the Turkish ship.

"The reports of up to 15 people killed and 50 injured, if confirmed, would constitute a totally unacceptable response by the Israeli military to what was a humanitarian mission attempting to deliver much needed supplies to the people of Gaza," he said.

Irish Congress of Trade Unions president Jack O’Connor and general secretary David Begg issued a joint statement condemning the assault.

“The people on those boats were civilians engaged in peaceful humanitarian work, bringing much needed aid to the Gaza Strip and were no threat to anyone,” they said. “To launch a military assault on a humanitarian convoy is beyond the bounds of all that is acceptable and should be judged as such by the international community. The assault was akin to the actions of a rogue state.”

Amnesty International also called for an inquiry. Noeleen Hartigan, programmes director for Amnesty International Ireland, said: “Israeli forces clearly appear to have used excessive force. Israel says its soldiers acted in self-defence, alleging that protesters attacked them, but it seems incredible that the level of lethal force used by Israeli troops could have possibly been justified.

Ms Hartigan called for a "credible and independent" investigation into the killings and said Amnesty had asked Minister Micheál Martin to make this clear to the Israeli ambassador when he meets him this afternoon.”

“The blockade does not target armed groups. It punishes Gaza’s entire population by restricting the entry of food, medical supplies, educational equipment and building materials,” she said.

Labour spokesman on human rights Joe Costello said Israel's actions were a "violent and unprovoked attack on a peaceful flotilla", and he accused the Mideast country of acting like a "rogue state".

The same term 'rogue state' seems to crop up again and again.... I guess its alright to be a rogue state as long as you're allied to the US.

 

[Sultan]

Building materials are not allowed in. The rest could have been transferred at the border crossings.

Drop a nuke and be done with it all...

 

[Tibs]

Drop a nuke and be done with it all...

Israel likes this

 

[Frosty]

The claim is the IHH have links to al-Qaeda and Hamas - any evidence for this out there?

 

[Eyepopper]

Nevermind links to Hamas and Al Qaeda.... did they actually find anything on the boat?

 

[Mozza]

The claim is the IHH have links to al-Qaeda and Hamas - any evidence for this out there?

They're both Islamic, that's enough for some

 

[Frosty]

Nevermind links to Hamas and Al Qaeda.... did they actually find anything on the boat?

I doubt we will ever know that.

 

[Sultan]

A take from an NGO on board the convoy.

"Our motives go beyond drawing attention to the crisis in Gaza. It is now about ensuring that ordinary people around the globe ask themselves why we are allowing the persecution of the Gazans to continue. An open air prison camp where people die from treatable illnesses and suffer malnutrition while living beside openly running sewage – this is Gaza’s reality, and it is man made, by Israel.

Gazans don't need bags of flour and rice, they need the siege to end and we need to rise above donating money to massage our consciences and take action to end the siege. Our bold aim is to achieve justice for the people of Gaza, and this is an aim that we carry on our shoulders with millions of people around the world backing us."

 

[Fearless]

let's see. You're saying that civilians from different countries who were on board these ships were doing what they were doing to play the victims role (which includes the risk of getting killed) but not to break the siege even if symbolically?


uh..okay

lefties, anti-semites, Islamists and Ziggy Stardust leper messiahs.

Apologies if i've left any other super heroes out.

 

[Fearless]

The convoy was carrying medical supplies, building materials, prefabricated homes and hundreds of electric wheelchairs.

Sure sounds like a real threat to the security of Israel

Iron bars, knives and firearms - I suppose the Gaza kindergartens were in short supply of these. Probably.

 

[Fearless]

A take from an NGO on board the convoy.

"Our motives go beyond drawing attention to the crisis in Gaza. It is now about ensuring that ordinary people around the globe ask themselves why we are allowing the persecution of the Gazans to continue. An open air prison camp where people die from treatable illnesses and suffer malnutrition while living beside openly running sewage – this is Gaza’s reality, and it is man made, by Israel.

Gazans don't need bags of flour and rice, they need the siege to end and we need to rise above donating money to massage our consciences and take action to end the siege. Our bold aim is to achieve justice for the people of Gaza, and this is an aim that we carry on our shoulders with millions of people around the world backing us."

So the humanitarian aid was a red herring.

 

[Sultan]

The claim is the IHH have links to al-Qaeda and Hamas - any evidence for this out there?

The convoy was part of around 700-strong civilians consisting of NGOs, press, politicians, and members of various religions. Hardly the types to strap suicide belts.

 

[Peasplease]

I doubt we will ever know that.

If they did we will see them soon enough. I can't see Israel not exposing something would give them justification for what they've done.

 

[Eyepopper]

More Muslim deaths- best possible outcome for Hamas.

BBC News - Irish government concern for citizens on Gaza aid ship

 

[Eyepopper]

Do you really believe that Gazans are being starved to death? For how long hve they been starved "to death"? What the death toll from hunger there?

Israel says it allows about 15,000 tonnes of humanitarian aid into Gaza every week.



The United Nations says this is less than a quarter of what is needed.

 

[Frosty]

If they did we will see them soon enough. I can't see Israel not exposing something would give them justification for what they've done.

True, but I meant more in terms of the number of claims and counter-claims that will inevitably occur. Remember Jenin and the misinformation that followed?

 

[rednev]

What's most disturbing is that Israel is actually able to defend their murderous actions today, and the people of Israel are buying it. I mean, they're actually talking about the soldiers' "bravery"!

Israel as a state and as a nation is seriously fecked up. If they are able to justify the massacre of protesters in the dead of night, it makes you wonder just how long it'll be before they are able to start justifying something more serious.

 

[Fearless]

The convoy was part of around 700-strong civilians consisting of NGOs, press, politicians, and members of various religions. Hardly the types to strap suicide belts.

So there was no wielding axes and iron bars and shooting???

Look forward to your reply

 

[Mozza]

So the humanitarian aid was a red herring.

The aid is neccessery, the further aims of the group are also

 

[Eyepopper]

So there was no wielding axes and iron bars and shooting???

Look forward to your reply

At this stage there's only definite evidence that one side had guns and was shooting, that side didn't incur any casualties, the side they were shooting at did..... probably just a massive coincidence.

Everyone knows the best way to traffic arms internationally is to fill ships with guns and have them take part in a well publicised flotilla.

 

[Mozza]

So there was no wielding axes and iron bars and shooting???

Look forward to your reply

Certainly the first two but in what order events took place is unknown, either way it doesn't justify the murder

 

[Fearless]

At this stage there's only definite evidence that one side had guns and was shooting, that side didn't incur any casualties, the side they were shooting at did..... probably just a massive coincidence.

Everyone knows the best way to traffic arms internationally is to fill ships with guns and have them take part in a well publicised flotilla.

Yeah - apparently the IDF stabbed and shot each other.

 

[Eyepopper]

Yeah - apparently the IDF stabbed and shot each other.

How do you know any were shot or stabbed?

Oh right, the guys that stormed the ship in the middle of the night and are now being internationally condemned for it told you so didn't they, apologies.

 

[Eyepopper]

"Unfortunately this group were dead-set on confrontation," Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev told the BBC.

"Live fire was used against our forces. They initiated the violence, that's 100% clear," he said.

Israel's deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon accused the convoy of a "premeditated and outrageous provocation", describing the flotilla as an "armada of hate".

100% clear eh? Well, thats me convinced!

On the other hand...

Audrey Bomse, a spokesperson for the Free Gaza Movement, which is behind the convoy, told the BBC Israel's actions were disproportionate.

"We were not going to pose any violent resistance. The only resistance that there might be would be passive resistance such as physically blocking the steering room, or blocking the engine room downstairs, so that they couldn't get taken over. But that was just symbolic resistance."

She said there was "absolutely no evidence of live fire".

 

[Sultan]

lefties, anti-semites, Islamists and Ziggy Stardust leper messiahs.

Apologies if i've left any other super heroes out.

I'll correct your post.

People on the convoy were those who recognise the dignity and rights of the human family and were compelled to help those against tyranny and oppression of a nation who's actions are those comparable to terrorists.

 

[Sultan]

So there was no wielding axes and iron bars and shooting???

Look forward to your reply

I quote an Israeli spokesman "self defence".

Why would Isreali commandos board a ship in international waters? I wonder if Somali pirates have been on your payroll training the IDF.