So let me get this straight. A thread about en Everton midfield player is abused with comparisons of Spurs and United players by an usual suspect who must react every time a Spurs player is mentioned.
Beautiful.
Beautiful.
Idrissa Gueye is one of the signings of the season
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Is there some sort of forum functionality that alerts you when a spurs player is mentioned.
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Your refusal to grade combative midfielders is quite frankly absurd. It just doesn't make sense. Any type of player can be picked up from obscurity. Two of the most skilful players in the league(Payet and Mahrez) weren't big names before last season and are now considered some of the best players in the league. If you cant see that there's a difference in the quality of defensive work that is done by a Kante to that, that was done by Butt and Neville then there's very little I can say to you.
I presume you mean NoPace, who first introduced the comparison between Schneiderlinn and Dier into this thread.
Also, if you've got something interesting to say about Gueye - or Kante or Schneiderlinn or Dier any of the off-shoot, but-related topics that inevitably crop up in threads like this - then I'd guess you'd say it ... instead of wasting space with such totally off-topic, self-righteous and ill-informed crap.
lol touché
There is some hidden feature for sure. I see that with spurs fans and pep fanboys.
We get alerts to our phone and we have a secret vibrating alarm that is always attached to our inner thigh primed to make us walk funny as soon as Spurs or a Spurs player is mentioned on redcafe. I walk funny quite a lot these days.
You talking about off-topic? Really?
As I said Spurs players defender to the rescue in every possible thread.
Do you spend your days searching for a name of Spurs players among all the threads?
Dier has been good, but what the hell is your point? Schneiderlin got into the French team after improving under Poch.
You can't just rate every Spurs player. It's hacky. Poch is such a good manager that he makes good but limited players who are athletic, like Walker and Dier, look better than they are.
But in terms of genuine feck off quality, I think it's Alderweild, Dele Alli (who looks like Lampard to me with his incredible late runs and through balls), Lloris , Vertonghen, Dembele and once fall comes or he gets the rest he presumably needs, Kane. Eriksen is a nice player but 10s are easy to come by (as Mata has found).
The rest are just solid Europa league players doing well under one of the best managers in the world.
Not a single wide player of any note, still. It's good in that it illustrates an obvious way to keep improving for Spurs, by finding a proper star winger (or 2).
Kante might be limited but he's at another level to most top players at what he's best at. Like Van Nistelrooy in the box or Beckham with crossing.
Not just top 1% but top 1% of the top 1%.
Kante is a fantastic footballer, lightyears above Schneiderlin and Dier (superior stamina, intelligence and especially technique). I haven't seen much of Gueye, but I definitely will. Us signing a player from last season's Villa would have been interesting just for the reaction it would have gotten here.
I haven't seen this guy play yet, but based on the assessments in this thread as to his strengths and style of play, that sounds like the ideal balance/personnel grouping to get the best out Pogba
I wanted Gueye at Arsenal, for a couple of seasons before he joined Villa. He has the workrate and defensive ability to protect the defense while being able to drbble the ball up the pitch with pace and picking decent, while not devastating, passes. I thought he'd prove to be one of the bargains last year and he was still good in a poor Villa outfit.
As for rival fans comparing different defensive midfielders, well let's be honest, the only defensive midfielder you've watched intensively is your own, so you have a soft spot for him because he's saved you time and again. You're not objectively watching each player under a microscope, you're just picking your man.
As for rival fans comparing different defensive midfielders, well let's be honest, the only defensive midfielder you've watched intensively is your own, so you have a soft spot for him because he's saved you time and again. You're not objectively watching each player under a microscope, you're just picking your man.
I have no refusal to rate the job they do, my refusal is to overrate the qualitiea required to do it. Of course, as flavour of the month, Kante will obviously seen as 'better' than all those who have done the job before him.
People loke Nicky Butt were deemed good enough to do the job for one of the best clubs in the world for years, and would have been deemed good enough to do it for Leicester City if he were in his prime now. He wasn't an automatic regular because it was recognised that his skillset, while useful, was still not as valuable as that of Keane and Scholes. The same assessment would be made of Kanté if compared with Keane and Scholes.
Kanté is very good at what he does, but the elements have been kind to him establishing the profile he has done. He's not a fecking midfield genius. He's a tackler and a runner, and there have been many before and will be many after. Most of them would be considered to have made it pro for more their hard work than natural ability.
It is not discrimination against defensive midfielders. Kanté is no Rijkaard. Kanté is no Busquets. Only circumstances really separate Kanté and Gueye in my view, there is very little between them in terms of ability, and probably many more like them, some playing at big clubs, some playing at smaller ones.
The skillset required to be a useful midfielder in the Kanté mould are largely physical. Stamina, speed, strength, size - if you have these you only need to be able to play a bit in order to have a chance. Dier was put there as a centre half, but was seen to probably have enough footballing ability to do that role, as his physical attributes were probably largely what counts. Rio Ferdinand was also tried there because he can 'play a bit'. Neither Dier or Rio would have been tried 10 yards further forward though. Nor would Kanté. Busquets, Rijkaard, Pirlo, Redondo, Alonso - they could probably play number 10 if needed.
Kanté does a job that is very valuable in the team. I don't belittle his role at all. Still, his job is one that teams could more likely find a left back or centre half to cover in a time of need than that of Fabregas who plays alongside him. Hence why the Fabregas role tends to cost big clubs more money to fill,and the candidates are much rarer. I honestly reckon United could have signed Fabinho, predominantly a right back, who would have excelled if used at DM here. He's good there. Largely because he's big and strong and can play a bit. Not the rarest skill set. Fosu Mensah is also seen as a CB and DM, largely for being physically excellent and technically above average.
I'm not sure if you guys are aware but there's debates on redcafe from the time arguing that Butt and Keane should start with Scholes benched. Butt was a very good DM. Kante has an immense engine but so does Gueye and statistically they nigh on mirror each other in terms of tackles/interceptions, both can drive the ball up the field with their pace/dribbles, Gueye has a better passing accuracy.
Actually Kante is kind of comparable engine wise to a prime Keane, not as good a passer though.
That's cause Scholes in his prime was a defensive liability and while we coped easily in the league as we could overrun most teams in Europe it was a different matter altogether as we often played against 3 men midfields with Keane trying to cover everything. It had nothing to do with how good Butt was.
I'm not saying you refuse to rate his qualities, I'm saying you have a refusal to grade him against other players with similar qualities and just presume that any of half a gazzilion mids could do his job, to the level he does it which is frankly absurd. I don't see the reason to compare him to most of the players you have cause most of them cant do what he can do. Football is a sport of roles, when it comes to his role if used correctly and not asked to sit, he can be an important cog in a title winning side.
Take Busquets for example, he's a hell of a holding mid. But there are lots of holding mids out there who can do a lot of what he can do, difference is not many can do it to the level he can hence hes so valuable to barca. Sidenote: Pirlo almost didn't have the career he had cause he wasn't impressive at all as a no10. All you're saying is that hes not all that great with what he can do with the ball and that's true, however it was also true for edgar davids who was a monster of a midfielder during his time. Would he be better if he could pass like other great mids? obviously.
How's he done so far today? Anyone watching?
Good again so far
Very good first half, didn't realise he was so quick.
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he was brilliant in a truly shit Villa side and set up. I'm glad a good manager in a good team took a chance on him
Best player on the pitch again.
Think the praise has gone over the top a little....he is having a very good start but so is Gareth Barry and nobody even mentions him.
You know jack shit most of the time due to your inane Spurs bias. Inspite of Dembele'sz superior talent he is no where near Fellaini's level in a Belgium shirt. The only thing you are right about is Dier is a better 6 than Schneiderlin.
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Did his lack of reaction save Rojo there?
I thought that. Others would have made a massive meal of it. Very nasty challenge.
Fair play to him.
He does seem to be a very honest player, didn't make a meal out of the Rojo challenge.
He didn't look bothered at all.
Maybe, but I like him even more as a footballer now. Brilliant to see that mentality of always focusing on doing your job and winning the ball, rather than trying to provoke a reaction from the ref through play-acting. Poor from Oliver to not show the red though.
Thought he's been really good on Pogba today. Not allowing him to dribble through at all. Quite handy on the ball too, so I would definitely be open to replacing Schneiderlin with him. Looked very impressive all season.
Hes a pest. Doesn't seem very useful on the ball though.
Swapsies.
How good is he on the ball? Schniederlin can run around and close players down very well when given that role. Has struggled when having to move the ball quickly and dictate a game.
Chill guys - Morgan has had better games for Southampton.
Nah. Carrick can replace Schneiderlin as the player who never has to play.
We get some real first team quality in place of Carrick for next season.
Pogba is struggling against Gueye.
The way he's dominated Pogba today Koeman would prob tell us they want more money than we paid for Pogba.
Yeah true. Gueye probably not good enough and not exactly the type needed behind pogba and herrera. Still a decent player though