If Mourinho's authority and ideology were given more backing, would we be challenging?

[Siorac]

Given what he inherited, that was completely unreasonable within 2 seasons. If he'd been backed as he requested, I think he would have in his 3rd year.



He came 2nd. As far as I'm aware and as Liverpool found out last year, there is no recognition, status or merit if that's closer in points to first or 5th, except if you have an agenda like you.



£400m is a meaningless number, it's called transfer fee inflation and is relative to how much money is in the game in general and how much money a club has. It's what players cost in this market. It's no less than SAF would have spent over those 3 summers. It's also less than what City spent over similar period.



Signings which helped him deliver 2nd, the best we've ever done since SAF left; can't be that poor, except if you have an agenda like you.



That's purely your subjective opinion. And you don't lose points or trophies for such either, so it's irrelevant.



I didn't expect that much better, given we haven't won since 2008 and didn't have the residual equity, experience or quality (what Mourinho meant as 'legacy' in his seville rant). It was not something to measure a manager against, given our state.



He made an unfortunate choice in language. As explained above. His general observation was correct.



He went rogue because he was surround by idiots and weasels, covered above.

-------

There are easily available facts to cover off any point you want to make. I can go on all day and answer with facts alone. Its just too easy. Especially with everything that has happened since. You however are left merely with unreasonable expectations, unfounded accusations and biased opinions.

But of course, you will ignore it, wait for the next temporary spike and repeat the same cycle. It's tiresome at this point. Nothing I listed is new or untrue.

All of this is just your opinion, actually. It's nit a 'fact' that we we would have challenged if he had been 'backed' - which would have meant allowing him to waste even more money on the likes of Matic, Sanchez, Lukaku, Bailly, etc, while he's falling out with his record signing.

So no, these are not facts. These are excuses born from wishful thinking. That 400m is a meaningful number because that was enough for Liverpool to challenge for the title and win a CL. Far less than that was enough for Spurs to finish ahead of us twice out of three Mourinho seasons (assuming he wouldn't have overtaken them last season which is a safe bet).

He saddled us with more deadwood, he created an absolutely toxic, poisonous atmosphere - let's not forget that his Sevilla rant came long before the frustrations of the 2018 summer window, it came after two record-breaking summers and after getting Alexis Sanchez to replace one of his many flops -, and in the end he set us back massively.

But he did finish second that one time, yes. Yay. His cult is easily the most annoying thing on Redcafe. Can't we just move on from him at last?

 

[Siorac]

Some short memories here. Claiming Jose bought dross players. What about LVG & Moyes? Plenty of money has been spent by many managers on players who didn't work out.

This has to be the weirdest whataboutism ever. Yes, they also bought shite and did a shite job. That's why they were fired and nobody wants them back. There are no threads about whether we'd challenge if only Moyes had got his full six seasons.

As for trying to besmirch Sir Alex to defend Mourinho... I hoped that disgusting trend would go away with the Whining One's dismissal but clearly his fans can't let it go and are happy to throw mud at anyone just to make their hero look that little cleaner.

 

[Corwin]

Nope. The problem is not the manager, the problem is the owners and their executive vice-chairman. Mourinho is very unpleasant and arrogant person, yet he has an army of his admirers. He was the great manager, but now he isn't. His ego was greater than the needs of our club so he had to go (deservedly).

 

[MackRobinson]

Given what he inherited, that was completely unreasonable within 2 seasons. If he'd been backed as he requested, I think he would have in his 3rd year.

What a pointless subjective statement that doesn't match up with his own words. He predicted a title challenge in his 2nd year with a team he said was "his". You're moving goalposts just like him.

https://www.skysports.com/football/...nited-are-ready-for-a-serious-title-challenge

In many ways, it is my team. In terms of the squad, this is my second transfer window. I was thinking, three transfer windows, I need that. But after two windows I have a good group and a football club much better equipped...

To buy lots of good players is important. Better squads are better equipped to win the title. That is normal, but that is not enough. I think every one of us is equipped to win the title.

His own words. This isn't new information.

He came 2nd. As far as I'm aware and as Liverpool found out last year, there is no recognition, status or merit if that's closer in points to first or 5th, except if you have an agenda like you.

You and others hate adding context to his second-place finish because it exposes how underwhelming it is. Closer to 5th rather than 1st means the team was closer to finishing outside of the top 4 than challenging for a title. To pretend context doesn't matter when looking at league position is another display of willful ignorance (this doesn't even take into account the early exit in the CL that season).

£400m is a meaningless number, it's called transfer fee inflation and is relative to how much money is in the game in general and how much money a club has. It's what players cost in this market. It's no less than SAF would have spent over those 3 summers. It's also less than what City spent over similar period.

What did he spend relative to the rest of the big clubs? What percentage of those funds came from player sales? Don't play dumb and just focus on the figure. What clubs, sans City, were allowed to spend as much as him? This notion he should be allowed to have a blank check is frankly absurd and childish.

Signings which helped him deliver 2nd, the best we've ever done since SAF left; can't be that poor, except if you have an agenda like you.

If the signings weren't poor then why did he want to bring roughly 5 additional after indicating he was pleased with his signings the previous season? Unless the goal of those signings was the second place trophy, in retrospect most were failures. Or are you daft enough to think signings like Sanchez, Fred, Matic, Mkhitaryan, etc were successful?

That's purely your subjective opinion. And you don't lose points or trophies for such either, so it's irrelevant.

An opinion the majority of United fans share. If you want to argue "It's an opinion, so you can't prove it!" be my guest, but anyone with half a brain knows the football was dire.

I didn't expect that much better, given we haven't won since 2008 and didn't have the residual equity, experience or quality (what Mourinho meant as 'legacy' in his seville rant). It was not something to measure a manager against, given our state.

He made an unfortunate choice in language. As explained above. His general observation was correct.

What a complete load of shite and rewriting of history. United had a piss easy group and were the favorites against Sevilla. So he gets credit for winning the prestigious Europa League but not for embarrassing results in the CL? You aren't making much sense.

He went rogue because he was surround by idiots and weasels, covered above.

You posted a pile of fabricated nonsense, yet have the nerve to complain calling his football was negative is subjective. That's next level spin. How can you support a club yet be fine with a manager purposely going rouge and/or sabotaging the team? That's just weird.

There are easily available facts to cover off any point you want to make. I can go on all day and answer with facts alone. Its just too easy. Especially with everything that has happened since. You however are left merely with unreasonable expectations, unfounded accusations and biased opinions.

You might want to look up what a fact is a reread your post. Your facts lack context, you rely on a bunch of conjecture, and most of what you wrote is at best intellectually dishonest. I find it hilarious you want to pat yourself on the back for that. Cheers.

 

[roonster09]

This has to be the weirdest whataboutism ever. Yes, they also bought shite and did a shite job. That's why they were fired and nobody wants them back. There are no threads about whether we'd challenge if only Moyes had got his full six seasons.

As for trying to besmirch Sir Alex to defend Mourinho... I hoped that disgusting trend would go away with the Whining One's dismissal but clearly his fans can't let it go and are happy to throw mud at anyone just to make their hero look that little cleaner.

It's weird really, the man himself said he deserved to be sacked but somehow people keep defending him.

Just because we messed up his replacement doesn't mean he was good enough. It was same with Van Gaal too, when things was at lowest people suddenly started to miss Van Gaal, forgetting how shit the performance was.

 

[MackRobinson]

It is quite hilarious that @JPRouve is sitting glum thinking the financial fair play committee is any sort of prestige that absolves Woodward. Much like Ed and his time at United, those councils are a farce. Elected by other business folks versus footballing community or appointed or whatever, they're both piss poor examples of being a likeable chief executive.

Which is the whole point. That Ed's a d*ck does matter. Because if he can't manage difficult but brilliant managers then full circle with the OP, how can said manager achieve to his potential

Weird post. You brought up the boards Gill was on. He just pointed out Woodward was on those same boards and now you're claiming they're a farce. I'm very confused...

Gill had ten years at United as the Chief Executive during which and after he was so well regarded amongst the football hierarchy that he was elected into the boards of the FA, UEFA and FIFA.

 

[In Rainbows]

I don't get Mourinho fans. He wasn't good enough. Thought that was obvious. Doesn't mean Ole is good enough and it doesn't mean Ole was better. That's why many want him gone. It's possible to think Mourinho should be gone and that he was better than Ole.

 

[JPRouve]

Weird post. You brought up the boards Gill was on. He just pointed out Woodward was on those same boards and now you're claiming they're a farce. I'm very confused...

The funny thing is that Gill's current role within the UEFA executive committee is treasurer. Even now, his main function is about money not football. Gill is the poster boy of finance in football.

 

[roonster09]

The funny thing is that Gill's current role within the UEFA executive committee is treasurer. Even now, his main function is about money not football. Gill is the poster boy of finance in football.

Gill is lucky that he left when SAF left.

 

[JPRouve]

Gill is lucky that he left when SAF left.

If I was cynical, I would say that he planned for it.

 

[Renegade]

Why?

Because we’d be in a position where we would need to spend another £150m replacing them rather than focusing on a different area that needs to be improved.

See Matic for example. 40m spent on a aging player. One good season from him with no team success and now we need to spend another 40m at least to replace him. Those expensive short term signings don’t make sense unless the team is at a very strong level already.

 

[NoLogo]

It wouldn't have made much of a difference, he never got better after 3 seasons, most of the time he didn't even get batter after his first season.

 

[Smores]

I don't get Mourinho fans. He wasn't good enough. Thought that was obvious. Doesn't mean Ole is good enough and it doesn't mean Ole was better. That's why many want him gone. It's possible to think Mourinho should be gone and that he was better than Ole.

I think it's the lack of self-reflection from his most fierce attackers that keep spiking this thread. If our fans can't admit they got a lot wrong last season then it's problematic because so many of the arguments turned out to be bullshit.

Mourinho’s abhorrent and reckless sprees in the transfer market are the main reason we’re fielding the car crash of a team we put out today.

Lukaku, Sanchez and Mkhitaryan no longer here. Bailly, a waste. A refusal to buy a left back and rely on twats like Ashley Young (Ole equally culpable here). Fred. Yes, Fred.

Mourinho’s ideology has set the club back years. His tenure will be remembered as one of the darkest periods in the club’s history.

Oh no a manager made a few bad signings, thank god no other manager does that oh wait they do but they sell and buy again. That last sentence

You'd think this was a write off squad when in fact Jose's team last season De Gea, Shaw, Lindelof, Pogba, McTominay, Rashford and Martial would all be in people's 11. 7 out of 11 and yet you excuse Ole with this squad whilst besmirching Jose who had it 2nd.

The only deadwood was Fred, Sanchez, Matic. That's not a crippled team that's one that needs some work but Ole decided that we needed to spend all the cash in defence instead.

 

[sammsky1]

What a pointless subjective statement that doesn't match up with his own words. He predicted a title challenge in his 2nd year with a team he said was "his". You're moving goalposts just like him.

https://www.skysports.com/football/...nited-are-ready-for-a-serious-title-challenge

His own words. This isn't new information.


You and others hate adding context to his second-place finish because it exposes how underwhelming it is. Closer to 5th rather than 1st means the team was closer to finishing outside of the top 4 than challenging for a title. To pretend context doesn't matter when looking at league position is another display of willful ignorance (this doesn't even take into account the early exit in the CL that season).


What did he spend relative to the rest of the big clubs? What percentage of those funds came from player sales? Don't play dumb and just focus on the figure. What clubs, sans City, were allowed to spend as much as him? This notion he should be allowed to have a blank check is frankly absurd and childish.


If the signings weren't poor then why did he want to bring roughly 5 additional after indicating he was pleased with his signings the previous season? Unless the goal of those signings was the second place trophy, in retrospect most were failures. Or are you daft enough to think signings like Sanchez, Fred, Matic, Mkhitaryan, etc were successful?


An opinion the majority of United fans share. If you want to argue "It's an opinion, so you can't prove it!" be my guest, but anyone with half a brain knows the football was dire.


What a complete load of shite and rewriting of history. United had a piss easy group and were the favorites against Sevilla. So he gets credit for winning the prestigious Europa League but not for embarrassing results in the CL? You aren't making much sense.


You posted a pile of fabricated nonsense, yet have the nerve to complain calling his football was negative is subjective. That's next level spin. How can you support a club yet be fine with a manager purposely going rouge and/or sabotaging the team? That's just weird.



You might want to look up what a fact is a reread your post. Your facts lack context, you rely on a bunch of conjecture, and most of what you wrote is at best intellectually dishonest. I find it hilarious you want to pat yourself on the back for that. Cheers.

You type an awful lot without saying anything new or meaningful. You might want to get that checked out

 

[Wheato]

Jose Mourinho signings. Matic, Fred, Dalot, Pogba, Lukaku, Sanchez, Bailly.

End of discussion.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Weird post. You brought up the boards Gill was on. He just pointed out Woodward was on those same boards and now you're claiming they're a farce. I'm very confused...

They are not the same boards.

 

[v0latile]

Jose Mourinho signings. Matic, Fred, Dalot, Pogba, Lukaku, Sanchez, Bailly.

End of discussion.

this, aside from his toxic personality

 

[MackRobinson]

You type an awful lot without saying anything new or meaningful. You might want to get that checked out

Like I said before:

This doesn't matter though since this debate has become endless cycle of willful ignorance. Your next response will probably be to ask for evidence (even though it's been posted hundreds of times in threads just like these), ignore it, wait for the next loss and repeat the same cycle. It's tiresome at this point. Nothing I listed is new or untrue.

Predictable.

 

[MackRobinson]

They are not the same boards.

You're moving goalposts. You claimed Woodward has no standing because he wasn't elected to football committees (you didn't name the specific committees). When introduced with evidence he was, you claimed he was appointed. When told he was in fact elected, you now claim they are a farce because they aren't the same. You're all over the place.

 

[Rory 7]

Sacking him was appalling really given his track record and achievements at the club. Not backing him for a CB and letting Pogba power win are all on Woodward. Woodward is the problem. Has been since day one.

 

[MackRobinson]

The funny thing is that Gill's current role within the UEFA executive committee is treasurer. Even now, his main function is about money not football. Gill is the poster boy of finance in football.

Ironically, those committees are littered with bankers and "non-football" people. It's quite funny he kept doubling down even though he knew he was wrong.

 

[cyril C]

Problem with modern football, is that it is Players who decide the outcome. Spurs is a good example when some players decide to turn off or taking a nap then team performance suffers. Without Pogba our team can't create anything. Partly on Mourinho's fault when Matic dip in form, and Sanchez never show up. Unless you think an extra few months will ignite Sanchez in fire, Matic becomes Modric...

 

[tomaldinho1]

This thread still going? Mou was a disaster and we're clinging on because we're still in the dark ages.

 

[roonster09]

Problem with modern football, is that it is Players who decide the outcome. Spurs is a good example when some players decide to turn off or taking a nap then team performance suffers. Without Pogba our team can't create anything. Partly on Mourinho's fault when Matic dip in form, and Sanchez never show up. Unless you think an extra few months will ignite Sanchez in fire, Matic becomes Modric...

If you think football is binary with 1 and 0, the bold part is true but reality is completely different. Players will have highs and lows, dip in form, exhausted physically and mentally. There are so many factors other than just 'downing tools'

 

[Sterling Archer]

You're moving goalposts. You claimed Woodward has no standing because he wasn't elected to football committees (you didn't name the specific committees). When introduced with evidence he was, you claimed he was appointed. When told he was in fact elected, you now claim they are a farce because they aren't the same. You're all over the place.

I'm not moving any goal posts. I just expected my fellow posters to know the difference between a respectable position in those organizations and those that aren't without having to spoon feed the details to you like a baby throwing a tantrum because your pedantics pacifier fell out.

@JPRouve same goes to you, mate. You know very well the point being made. Fair enough if you disagree but don't be one of those to argue for the sake of arguing

 

[MackRobinson]

I'm not moving any goal posts. I just expected my fellow posters to know the difference between a respectable position in those organizations and those that aren't without having to spoon feed the details to you like a baby throwing a tantrum because your pedantics pacifier fell out.\

I'm not going to argue with someone who has so much pride they can't admit they are wrong. Your posts speak for themselves. Cheers.

 

[sunama]

This thread still going? Mou was a disaster and we're clinging on because we're still in the dark ages.

He won 2 trophies and got us 2nd place.
By SAF's standards, I agree that isn't great. But definitely not a disaster.
By post-SAF's standards, he did fantastically well.

 

[Sky1981]

I don't get Mourinho fans. He wasn't good enough. Thought that was obvious. Doesn't mean Ole is good enough and it doesn't mean Ole was better. That's why many want him gone. It's possible to think Mourinho should be gone and that he was better than Ole.

Looking in retrospect, getting 2nd with us is indeed a job well done. Especially against a 100 pts city. It's no trophy, but the abuse he gets for finishing 2nd with us is sad. We're taking 2nd for granted thinking it's an abject failure. Now we're paying the price. We'd bite hands and legs for a top 6, let alone 2nd

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/are-we-taking-finishing-2nd-for-granted.441337/

 

[tomaldinho1]

He won 2 trophies and got us 2nd place.
By SAF's standards, I agree that isn't great. But definitely not a disaster.
By post-SAF's standards, he did fantastically well.

You have to look at it as a trade off with Mourinho - you know he's not going to set you up for success or build a side so it's a case of what can he win in the short space of time he's at the club and at what cost.

For me, a league cup and a Europa League does not constitute him doing fantastically well when you factor in he spend what? £400m? Saddled us with a bunch of older, mercenary type players who were on ridiculous salaries. Publicly went after player after player and generally brought a big storm cloud of negativity and shite football to OT. If they were major trophies, I'd reluctantly agree but they're not.

We're going to be feeling the tremors of his time here for years. The caf rewrites history especially now as Ole is doing really badly but let's not pretend Jose didn't get backed to the hilt until it became clear he'd lost it. h signed XI players. We hired him at the wrong time, the magic has gone since the Chelsea implosion and the league cup (which is next to meaningless) plus a Europa is paltry return for what he should have achieved.

 

[Offside]

Won us two trophies and finished 2nd! (which looks inconceivable now).
World class manager who should’ve been backed in his feud with Pogba and in his final transfer window.
If his tenure looks shite to you then and I cannot imagine what you thinking now.

Both seasons we were abysmal and going nowhere. He was not the right man for the job.

 

[steffyr2]

You have to look at it as a trade off with Mourinho - you know he's not going to set you up for success or build a side so it's a case of what can he win in the short space of time he's at the club and at what cost.

For me, a league cup and a Europa League does not constitute him doing fantastically well when you factor in he spend what? £400m? Saddled us with a bunch of older, mercenary type players who were on ridiculous salaries. Publicly went after player after player and generally brought a big storm cloud of negativity and shite football to OT. If they were major trophies, I'd reluctantly agree but they're not.

We're going to be feeling the tremors of his time here for years. The caf rewrites history especially now as Ole is doing really badly but let's not pretend Jose didn't get backed to the hilt until it became clear he'd lost it. h signed XI players. We hired him at the wrong time, the magic has gone since the Chelsea implosion and the league cup (which is next to meaningless) plus a Europa is paltry return for what he should have

Yes, our fans were looking for "magic". Steady progress was sniffed at because we thought it was easy to do. It doesn't look that easy at the moment does it?
And yet you're still complaining that Mourinho called out players who mailed in their performances. You know what? They're sil mailing in performances with the fans blessing.

Getting us back in the cl in 1 year was fantastic, btw.

 

[Sterling Archer]

I'm not going to argue with someone who has so much pride they can't admit they are wrong. Your posts speak for themselves. Cheers.

You can go back through my post history and see a number of occasions where I openly admit being mistaken. This however is not one such case and I'm extra harsh because you can't even put in the due diligence to look up what I'm even talking about. Go look the positions up yourself and stop with the holier than thou. You're just being lazier than thou

 

[tomaldinho1]

Yes, our fans were looking for "magic". Steady progress was sniffed at because we thought it was easy to do. It doesn't look that easy at the moment does it?
And yet you're still complaining that Mourinho called out players who mailed in their performances. You know what? They're sil mailing in performances with the fans blessing.

Getting us back in the cl in 1 year was fantastic, btw.

Our fans were looking for the Mourinho who had gone to RM and broken the Barcelona La Liga cycle, the guy who'd taken Inter to the historic treble, even the Mou from Chelsea mark II would have done because he was still able to deliver the major titles. His aura has gone, why do you think he's sat on Skysports doing punditry? I rate him above almost any manager for his achievements but he just didn't deliver here.

Let me be clear that this isn't born out of some entitled right that United MUST be competing for all trophies and we have some divine right to be the best it's all about the trade off. We needed to hire a manager to deliver success and/or build a team and really Mourinho did neither. His transfers were all over the shop, most of the players he trusted we are still trying to shift and it was never the right fit.

Your idea of steady progress is moot because the inevitable third season happened. LVG also got us back into the CL first season btw.

 

[MackRobinson]

You can go back through my post history and see a number of occasions where I openly admit being mistaken. This however is not one such case and I'm extra harsh because you can't even put in the due diligence to look up what I'm even talking about. Go look the positions up yourself and stop with the holier than thou. You're just being lazier than thou

Your words:

Gill had ten years at United as the Chief Executive during which and after he was so well regarded amongst the football hierarchy that he was elected into the boards of the FA, UEFA and FIFA.

You're telling me Woodward has that kind of standing?

^The original point

Woodward is currently member of the ECA FFP strategic panel, member board of administration UEFA club competition and Member of the UEFA professional football strategy council. So yes, he has that type of standing and funnily enough they are both considered by these associations as finance experts which is why in 2010 Gill was made chairman of the finance committee. They both have the same career trajectory and came from the same background, they are bot expert in the same domain and recognize for it by other clubs and associations.

Ooh la la very nice for him to be appointed there indeed. Find appointments less impressive than being elected. In any case doesn't change the rest of him being a d*ck

He has been elected and followed the same process that Gill did. And he may be a dick but that's irrelevant to your point about his standing in the main football organisations.

They are not the same boards.

I'm not moving any goal posts. I just expected my fellow posters to know the difference between a respectable position in those organizations and those that aren't without having to spoon feed the details to you like a baby throwing a tantrum because your pedantics pacifier fell out.

I'm not up for debating someone who doesn't even remember what they posted, yet lectures others on due diligence. Cheers.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Your words:


^The original point











I'm not up for debating someone who doesn't even remember what they posted, yet lectures others on due diligence. Cheers.

It would have been easier for you to look up what positions exactly Gill held versus Woody. But I guess if you did that instead you would have been found out to be flat on your face wrong. So better to badger in one thing about appointment versus election and miss the point. Like I said, you're not here for the relevant discussion.

Anyway, hope you don't longer too much longer on this. Not doing anyone good. no hard feelings on my end.

 

[MackRobinson]

It would have been easier for you to look up what positions exactly Gill held versus Woody. But I guess if you did that instead you would have been found out to be flat on your face wrong. So better to badger in one thing about appointment versus election and miss the point. Like I said, you're not here for the relevant discussion.

I'm not sure what I would be wrong about since I never claimed anything besides you moving goalposts - which you did. The point is Woodward has "that type of standing" (given that the positions Gill hold came after he was out of a club job) and he was elected by his peers - @JPRouve's original point. Now you are making it about the specific positions held...

Anyway, hope you don't longer too much longer on this. Not doing anyone good. no hard feelings on my end.

Water under the bridge and never any hard feelings.

 

[JPRouve]

It would have been easier for you to look up what positions exactly Gill held versus Woody. But I guess if you did that instead you would have been found out to be flat on your face wrong. So better to badger in one thing about appointment versus election and miss the point. Like I said, you're not here for the relevant discussion.

Anyway, hope you don't longer too much longer on this. Not doing anyone good. no hard feelings on my end.

During their time as CEO of Manchester United the difference is that Gill has been an executive member of the FA board and vice chairman of the G-14. They have both been elected as executive board members of the ECA, they have both been elected to represent the ECA in UEFA committees(the UEFA PFSC) and from memory both been chairman of ECA panels and committees, I'm not sure about Gill but I seem to remember that it was the finance working group, while Woodward led the Marketing and communication one. Woodward is also currently member of committees that didn't exist when Gill was around.

The point here is fairly simple, during their times as CEOs of Manchester United they have both been important figures of the biggest club organizations(ECA and G-14), they have both represented clubs at the UEFA level in their domain of expertise. Now Gill left club football to go on the other side of the table and become an executive board member of the UEFA instead of being an executive members representing clubs and he has since joined the FIFA but this isn't relevant to what Gill was when he was in the same context than Woodward. You could and should consider that the FA role is important and gives Gill the edge but the rest of their involvments shows that they aren't actually far in terms of standing at continental level.

And by the way all of that means very little for United because their expertise existed prior to United and isn't all that special. What separates their career as CEOs is that one inherited SAF while the other inherited Moyes.

PS: And remember that as the CEO, he was in charge of the transition to life without SAF and also the transition from himself to Woodward. History shows that he butchered both.

 

[steffyr2]

Our fans were looking for the Mourinho who had gone to RM and broken the Barcelona La Liga cycle, the guy who'd taken Inter to the historic treble, even the Mou from Chelsea mark II would have done because he was still able to deliver the major titles. His aura has gone, why do you think he's sat on Skysports doing punditry? I rate him above almost any manager for his achievements but he just didn't deliver here.

Let me be clear that this isn't born out of some entitled right that United MUST be competing for all trophies and we have some divine right to be the best it's all about the trade off. We needed to hire a manager to deliver success and/or build a team and really Mourinho did neither. His transfers were all over the shop, most of the players he trusted we are still trying to shift and it was never the right fit.

Your idea of steady progress is moot because the inevitable third season happened. LVG also got us back into the CL first season btw.

The 3rd season wasn't "inevitable", the club could have bought the players they promised Mourinho. It was cheaper to not do that tho', and for some really puzzling reason lots of fans were ok with a season with no improvement in players.

Wikipedia says we were 7th and 8th under Moyes, truly terrible (2013-14)
Under LVG, not too bad--3rd and 4th. (2014-15)
Next year with LVG-- pretty much stuck in 5th (2015-16).
1st year of Jose -- 5th and 6th, but won the europa league.
2nd year of Jose -- 2nd all year long
3rd year of Jose/1st year of Ole -- 6th place
this year -- really too early to tell, we're in 12th place now, not a ranking we're used to. Wonder what next year will bring.......our trajectory is going down, momentary up with Jose but couldn't/didn't sustain it.

 

[Buster15]

Our fans were looking for the Mourinho who had gone to RM and broken the Barcelona La Liga cycle, the guy who'd taken Inter to the historic treble, even the Mou from Chelsea mark II would have done because he was still able to deliver the major titles. His aura has gone, why do you think he's sat on Skysports doing punditry? I rate him above almost any manager for his achievements but he just didn't deliver here.

Let me be clear that this isn't born out of some entitled right that United MUST be competing for all trophies and we have some divine right to be the best it's all about the trade off. We needed to hire a manager to deliver success and/or build a team and really Mourinho did neither. His transfers were all over the shop, most of the players he trusted we are still trying to shift and it was never the right fit.

Your idea of steady progress is moot because the inevitable third season happened. LVG also got us back into the CL first season btw.

I have to agree with you on this. I was desperate for him to replace the irreplaceable Sir Alex Ferguson.
And when he was appointed I was very happy.
But it didn't work out and that is down to both United and Jose himself.

 

[tomaldinho1]

The 3rd season wasn't "inevitable", the club could have bought the players they promised Mourinho. It was cheaper to not do that tho', and for some really puzzling reason lots of fans were ok with a season with no improvement in players.

Wikipedia says we were 7th and 8th under Moyes, truly terrible (2013-14)
Under LVG, not too bad--3rd and 4th. (2014-15)
Next year with LVG-- pretty much stuck in 5th (2015-16).
1st year of Jose -- 5th and 6th, but won the europa league.
2nd year of Jose -- 2nd all year long
3rd year of Jose/1st year of Ole -- 6th place
this year -- really too early to tell, we're in 12th place now, not a ranking we're used to. Wonder what next year will bring.......our trajectory is going down, momentary up with Jose but couldn't/didn't sustain it.

My issue with this is that the whole coming 2nd argument actually works against him.

It seems simple but let's assume Mou had not been allowed to sign Dalot and Fred (who wasn't exactly cheap) and for some reason there were zero funds. A rational expectation of the season would be that we would aim for a similar points total right? Similar to Poch at Spurs where, until this season, it has been a case of stability and consistency without big name signings. Mou had built a team and spent big to create it, the level of that team was decent despite the style of football and they'd won a couple of lesser trophies. However, he did as he's done throughout his career and blew everything up before losing the players and getting fired with us on 26 points after 17 games.

What I think fans need to realise with Mourinho is it's in his interest to push the narrative that he wan't backed because really, he had a shocker third season without any real impetus for it. It was down to his personality and emotional incapability to actually try and improve a team without throwing more money at it (and they still gave him £80m of signings) that made him essentially give up and wait for his payout.