If Poch takes over, how does he fix this mess?

[Chesterlestreet]

There's no easy fix.

If Poch were to be announced tomorrow, my hope would be precisely what it is today: that Woodward has now realized that what this club needs is to embrace a radically different approach to recruitment. And that such a - new - approach will be adhered to over the next transfer windows. More good "outs" and more good "ins".

We don't have a squad at present capable of winning anything of note. If people actually think Poch can turn the current options into a unit capable of performing consistently at the highest level just by virtue of "good coaching", they're living in fantasy land. As said elsewhere, our best XI isn't horrible (but still lacking). Our second stringers leave all sorts of things to be desired. That won't change magically. A combination of developing current (young) players - which will obviously take time - and bringing in the right sort of profile of more "immediate impact" players is alpha and omega regardless of who the manager (or "head coach") is.

 

[Bilbo]

There's no easy fix.

If Poch were to be announced tomorrow, my hope would be precisely what it is today: that Woodward has now realized that what this club needs is to embrace a radically different approach to recruitment. And that such a - new - approach will be adhered to over the next transfer windows. More good "outs" and more good "ins".

We don't have a squad at present capable of winning anything of note. If people actually think Poch can turn the current options into a unit capable of performing consistently at the highest level just by virtue of "good coaching", they're living in fantasy land. As said elsewhere, our best XI isn't horrible (but still lacking). Our second stringers leave all sorts of things to be desired. That won't change magically. A combination of developing current (young) players - which will obviously take time - and bringing in the right sort of profile of more "immediate impact" players is alpha and omega regardless of who the manager (or "head coach") is.

Good post - I agree with every word

 

[TRUERED89]

At least Poch would be the right manager to succeed OGS, rather than the daft 180's we've been doing from Moyes to LVG to Mourinho to OGS. Poch also wants hard working players, likes local talent and uses the academy. It'd be a much easier transition over to Poch than it was for any of the managers before.
The opportunity is there now to get who I'm certain was the club's first choice when they fired Mourinho, we'd be fools not to grasp it with both hands.

Levy probably did the smart thing, and put a non-compete clause in the contract. So probably cant take any PL job until the summer.

 

[manunited1919]

Victoria Beckham is taking over ?

yeah, she will hold auditions for a mid-vocal midfielder.

 

[AneRu]

And why cant Ole do that?

Only so much Ole can do with 1 transfer window......

To achieve what exactly because the outcry isn't about him failing to launch a title challenge; it's about our worst start to the season, playing awful football and the manager being tactically clueless at times. A team that finished 6th in the league shouldn't need multiple windows to challenge for and achieve CL football by finishing fourth in the league.

What's also amazing is how people are quick to use the weakness of the squad as a point to defend Ole when he has consistently said that the summer decisions were his and that he was satisfied with how things went. Now the team looks shot and the man who has claimed responsibility for that gets defended using the things he neglected himself.

As for Poch, whilst I am not entirely convinced that he is a man to take several steps up the ladder what he has done at Spurs with little backing suggests he can achieve more if he receives the backing that Jose, for example, got. He improves players, has a set way of playing and he gives genuine chances to youth. Once you have the basics settled like playing style, solid defense etc the step up to a title challenging side can be achieved by a couple of big signings like the ones Liverpool got in Salah and Van Djik.

 

[Lennon7]

It's only starting from scratch if you're going to run the club like a cult and the manager as the leader of said cult.

If Pochettino is to take over, it has to be made clear his job is to coach and improve the players at the club. The next manager should have minimal influence into the clubs transfer strategy.

Although I agree, managers are the football experts that know the sort of player needed to improve the team. We don’t have anyone at United that can make the correct footballing decisions besides the coaching staff. It’s a bit daft to exclude the manager out of something that affects his job so much anyway, has it ever been done successfully?

 

[Eric's Seagull]

To achieve what exactly because the outcry isn't about him failing to launch a title challenge; it's about our worst start to the season, playing awful football and the manager being tactically clueless at times. A team that finished 6th in the league shouldn't need multiple windows to challenge for and achieve CL football by finishing fourth in the league.

What's also amazing is how people are quick to use the weakness of the squad as a point to defend Ole when he has consistently said that the summer decisions were his and that he was satisfied with how things went. Now the team looks shot and the man who has claimed responsibility for that gets defended using the things he neglected himself.

As for Poch, whilst I am not entirely convinced that he is a man to take several steps up the ladder what he has done at Spurs with little backing suggests he can achieve more if he receives the backing that Jose, for example, got. He improves players, has a set way of playing and he gives genuine chances to youth. Once you have the basics settled like playing style, solid defense etc the step up to a title challenging side can be achieved by a couple of big signings like the ones Liverpool got in Salah and Van Djik.

How do you know that Ole was definitely happy with what he got? He could have wanted more but been been told by Woodward that he is not getting them. He is not exactly going to come out moaning in the press that he didn't get the players that he wants.

He may be putting on a brave face for the club because he cares and doesn't want to mention not getting any other players in public as this would make it look like to the players that he has that he hasn't got confidence in them.

 

[AneRu]

I doubt we will see an instant improvement even in performance. We will score goals but Poch or for that matter any manager cannot turn dross into quality. If we keep on rewarding average and nothing players like Lingard, Periera, Jones, Rojo, Young, Mata we will go nowhere.

We keep on saying dross but who is protecting, playing and giving new contracts to the same dross? If Ole truly felt that Lingard was fecked and deadwood we wouldn't see him being the first player off the bench when the team is in trouble, we wouldn't see both Mata and Lingard getting on the first team bench ahead of Gomes and he wouldnt start Phil fecking Jones in a tricky away tie.

When a manager thinks a player is deadwood he won't give them the number of appearances that Ole hands out to Lingard et al. You call them deadwood but he is actively trying to play them into form and is neglecting a few youngsters who possibly arent ready but are a better long term prospect than his favourites.

 

[AneRu]

How do you know that Ole was definitely happy with what he got? He could have wanted more but been been told by Woodward that he is not getting them. He is not exactly going to come out moaning in the press that he didn't get the players that he wants.

He may be putting on a brave face for the club because he cares and doesn't want to mention not getting any other players in public as this would make it look like to the players that he has that he hasn't got confidence in them.

All that is speculation, what is fact is that he said that he had the final say in all decisions made in the summer.

 

[mu4c_20le]

We keep on saying dross but who is protecting, playing and giving new contracts to the same dross? If Ole truly felt that Lingard was fecked and deadwood we wouldn't see him being the first player off the bench when the team is in trouble, we wouldn't see both Mata and Lingard getting on the first team bench ahead of Gomes and he wouldnt start Phil fecking Jones in a tricky away tie.

When a manager thinks a player is deadwood he won't give them the number of appearances that Ole hands out to Lingard et al. You call them deadwood but he is actively trying to play them into form and is neglecting a few youngsters who possibly arent ready but are a better long term prospect than his favourites.

Putting Lingard on sparked the comeback and changed the game, so it was the right call. Gomes hasn't done anything to suggest he could make an impact coming off the bench. Also, good managers make the most of what they've got. Even Jose managed to get the best out of Mata.

 

[AneRu]

Putting Lingard on sparked the comeback and changed the game, so it was the right call. Gomes hasn't done anything to suggest he could make an impact coming off the bench. Also, good managers make the most of what they've got. Even Jose managed to get the best out of Mata.

My point was that people can't classify Lingard, Mata and co as deadwood when the manager believes in them enough to keep them on the bench ahead of some promising prospects, note I said them as in he doesn't have to have both Mata and Lingard on the bench but he chooses to. That Lingard did well in a cameo yesterday doesn't wash away a calendar year of mediocre football with zero creativity.

 

[Garethw]

Poch would relegate us. He did worse with a better Spurs team, it’s terrifying to thing how far he’d make us drop.

Like feck he would.

 

[mu4c_20le]

My point was that people can't classify Lingard, Mata and co as deadwood when the manager believes in them enough to keep them on the bench ahead of some promising prospects, note I said them as in he doesn't have to have both Mata and Lingard on the bench but he chooses to. That Lingard did well in a cameo yesterday doesn't wash away a calendar year of mediocre football with zero creativity.

They are squad players but are probably on the brink of becoming deadwood if they dont put up some slack soon.

 

[djembatheking]

Would he take the job if offered? I am not too sure. He may well have a clause that stops him til the summer, he may be put off by Ed and his Disney shit, he will have other offers and could well see United as a poisoned chalice.

 

[AneRu]

Would he take the job if offered? I am not too sure. He may well have a clause that stops him til the summer, he may be put off by Ed and his Disney shit, he will have other offers and could well see United as a poisoned chalice.

He'd have been an idiot to accept such a clause, Spurs were firing him and probably needed his cooperation on the termination clause since his deal was a long term one.

 

[djembatheking]

He'd have been an idiot to accept such a clause, Spurs were firing him and probably needed his cooperation on the termination clause since his deal was a long term one.

True, do you think he would fancy it though?

 

[Gordon S]

Mourinho are one of the best in the biz and after two years with his coaching our players couldn't play much better than what we are seeing now. There is simply no quick fix to our problems. Even if Poch might be a better coach than Ole it would still take us a few succesful transfer windows to get us to a good level.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

My sole issue with Poch is his inability to make Spurs systematically break down a balanced defence. In their pressing, buildup play and tactical flexibility prior to mid last season, Spurs were a good team. Them not being a great team or winning trophies I think is down to the aforementioned issue. He struggled with the same problem for 3 seasons and did not improve on it at all. Him being fired for Spurs not performing is down to reasons he himself stated prior to Spurs breaking down as a team --> his intensive style of play is not sustainable with a small and ageing squad over time. This would not be a problem at MUFC (assuming we appoint a DoF).

If we were to appoint Pochettino, and he was given time, then our players would improve through coaching, we would get 11 players on the pitch operating as a unit, a team playing technical and possession-based football with high intensity... Over time we would have a core of players good enough for top3/4 and an organizational understanding of how to play together in 2/3rds of the pitch. The only real question is whether Pochettino would be able to develop a system or plays on how to break down the Burnleys or Sheffield United's of this league on a regular basis.

 

[AneRu]

True, do you think he would fancy it though?

That's neither here nor there unless it ever became a realistic option. I think any manager looking for a big break into the big time would find us interesting because of our history, current troubles which offer an opportunity to be a hero that rescued the situation and the size of our transfer and wage budget.

Pochettino having endured a bet spend of £29m in just five years would find Woodward a Godsend even with the latter's flaws. The money we spend on fees and wages is a lot if you know what you are doing and are willing to utilize the academy more. For example, he would probably not spend a dime on Lindelof's upgrade and just use Tuanzebe or would seriously take on the project of bedding in a youngster like Garner/Greenwood.

What the above would mean is that he'd have more to spend on other areas. United is a club in disarray right now but even in the midst of it all the reality is that three top signings could transform this side whilst a set way of playing and some tactical nous could win us points.

Pochettino improved Southampton and established Spurs in the top 4. If he managed that at United we certainly have the resources to sign a 40 goal player that turns good sides into great ones.

 

[Sandikan]

He'd have been an idiot to accept such a clause, Spurs were firing him and probably needed his cooperation on the termination clause since his deal was a long term one.

He's the same guy who signed a long term deal with Madrid sniffing around him.

So if he's offered full pay off money with the can't sign for a rival until the summer, he'll have eaten it up.

 

[OleGunnar20]

Hmm interesting, I think Poch more needed a change rather than being burnt out. He was saying before the CL Final that he would leave if they won. It maybe would have been best for him to have walked after the final. most likely now to have a break for a few months and be fully recharged for a new challenge.Even Klopp had a very poor last season at Dortmund which led him to say he was leaving at the end of the season, even some thought he was burnt out after his success at Dortmund, now look at him after a little rest and moving to Liverpool.

I would be very surprised however if that new challenge is Man Utd (under the current ownership), from Levy to Woodward would be like going from the frying pan into the fire. Something tells me though that the Glazer's/Woodward will try their hardest to keep Ole even if results get worse, as they know he is not going to criticise them concerning not getting sufficient new signings as he is still in "I can't believe I'm the Man Utd manager, and I don't want to rock the boat" mode.

Fair point, it could certainly go either way.

I guess I see Klopp as a different animal, more of a winners mentality than Poch. It takes a special kind of sickness to succeed at the top of this kind of field, and I think Poch is just too normal to do it - A Great manager at your Tottenham, Valencia, Dortmund type clubs, but lacking that required edge for the top jobs.

Not that Ole is showing anything better mind you!

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Sack Woodward.

 

[Mainoldo]

Agree with what you say. Fair play to Ole for shifting some of the deadwood but as you rightly we still have a lot of deadwood that needs replacing. The squad is very thin and I'm concerned if we have a few injuries we are in the crap. But even if we bring in a new manager, I'm not confident Woodward would give them the necessary backing needed to be challenging for top honours.

When you say he wouldn’t. What you mean? As in compared the Levy world would Woodward fail to provide?

 

[MikeKing]

My sole issue with Poch is his inability to make Spurs systematically break down a balanced defence. In their pressing, buildup play and tactical flexibility prior to mid last season, Spurs were a good team. Them not being a great team or winning trophies I think is down to the aforementioned issue. He struggled with the same problem for 3 seasons and did not improve on it at all. Him being fired for Spurs not performing is down to reasons he himself stated prior to Spurs breaking down as a team --> his intensive style of play is not sustainable with a small and ageing squad over time. This would not be a problem at MUFC (assuming we appoint a DoF).

If we were to appoint Pochettino, and he was given time, then our players would improve through coaching, we would get 11 players on the pitch operating as a unit, a team playing technical and possession-based football with high intensity... Over time we would have a core of players good enough for top3/4 and an organizational understanding of how to play together in 2/3rds of the pitch. The only real question is whether Pochettino would be able to develop a system or plays on how to break down the Burnleys or Sheffield United's of this league on a regular basis.

Good post.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Why do our fans keep pretending a manager change will fix everything? Ed Woodward will still be his boss therefore it will end in tears.

We may as well keep Ole in charge until Ed Woodward is fired or the club sold. Nobody is going to succeed here until there are major changes in board room.

 

[AshRK]

We keep on saying dross but who is protecting, playing and giving new contracts to the same dross? If Ole truly felt that Lingard was fecked and deadwood we wouldn't see him being the first player off the bench when the team is in trouble, we wouldn't see both Mata and Lingard getting on the first team bench ahead of Gomes and he wouldnt start Phil fecking Jones in a tricky away tie.

When a manager thinks a player is deadwood he won't give them the number of appearances that Ole hands out to Lingard et al. You call them deadwood but he is actively trying to play them into form and is neglecting a few youngsters who possibly arent ready but are a better long term prospect than his favourites.

I do not disagree with that but you cannot ship all the deadwoods in one season, unless the board decides to back you big time. If you want to replace all the deadwoods that would mean signing at least 5 to 6 players, which is what City did in 2017. I cannot see this board supporting a manager to that extent.

 

[matt10000]

All that is speculation, what is fact is that he said that he had the final say in all decisions made in the summer.

This is not a fact. Does Ole sign the cheques?

Ole can approve decisions within the confines of a budget, within the confines of how many deals and which deals get to nearly finalised within a specific transfer window.

This does not mean he is 100% happy with:
1. Amount of money available
2. Pace at which transfers are happening
3. The final realistic options being put to him after negotiations

Neither you nor I know this

 

[Eric's Seagull]

When you say he wouldn’t. What you mean? As in compared the Levy world would Woodward fail to provide?

I'm not sure what you mean? What I'm saying is that I don't believe Woodward would provide the new manager with sufficient funds to challenge for top honours. In the last part are you trying to say to say, "do I think that Woodward would give Poch more than Levy?". I think Woodward would give him more than Levy. Sorry if I found your post confusing. Please correct me on the part I may have misinterpreted

 

[kouroux]

Sheffield United second goal where Fleck did a diagonal pass. The amount of times I saw our players had the chance to do the same pass to put through a player in goal is ridiculous. I am not talking about the game against Sheffield but in general.

Can our player execute that type of pass, or do they lack vision or lack confidence in pulling off the pass? Whatever the reason it is a disgrace for the amount we pay them every week. Especially when lesser teams can do this with ease.

This is a good example of the type of passes we never play. I don't remember when was the last time a player of ours did something similar

 

[Mainoldo]

I'm not sure what you mean? What I'm saying is that I don't believe Woodward would provide the new manager with sufficient funds to challenge for top honours. In the last part are you trying to say to say, "do I think that Woodward would give Poch more than Levy?". I think Woodward would give him more than Levy. Sorry if I found your post confusing. Please correct me on the part I may have misinterpreted

What I’m saying is we continue to spend the most money in England each summer accept for that famous City one. So I want to know why you believe he won’t get backed financially? All Woodward’s managers get backed.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

What I’m saying is we continue to spend the most money in England each summer accept for that famous City one. So I want to know why you believe he won’t get backed financially? All Woodward’s managers get backed.

Thanks for clarifying. I didn't say that he won't get backed. He will backed. I just don't believe that he will backed fully to challenge for top honours.

 

[Roboc7]

Why do our fans keep pretending a manager change will fix everything? Ed Woodward will still be his boss therefore it will end in tears.

We may as well keep Ole in charge until Ed Woodward is fired or the club sold. Nobody is going to succeed here until there are major changes in board room.

Woodward isn’t going anywhere, Glazers aren’t going anywhere. Sticking with Ole just means your giving up and saying may as well have a bad manager as well.

A new manager doesn’t fix everything, I don’t think hardly any fans think that. But keeping a bad manager isn’t the solution. There is no chance Ole our lasts Woodward or the Glazers, sooner or later he gets sacked.

 

[Mainoldo]

Thanks for clarifying. I didn't say that he won't get backed. He will backed. I just don't believe that he will backed fully to challenge for top honours.

I disagree. When it comes to the board I think they fail with the nitty gritty. Like will he be allowed to bring in his own men? We cannot appoint him and insist on Carrick and McKenna again.

We need to also set transfer expectations. I always feel managers don’t know where they stand and forever assume targets can be obtained when they can’t. No more Pedro and Perisic fiasco’s. If the board don’t believe in the deal don’t drag it out.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Woodward isn’t going anywhere, Glazers aren’t going anywhere. Sticking with Ole just means your giving up and saying may as well have a bad manager as well.

A new manager doesn’t fix everything, I don’t think hardly any fans think that. But keeping a bad manager isn’t the solution. There is no chance Ole our lasts Woodward or the Glazers, sooner or later he gets sacked.

Poch won't go any differently to LVG or Jose. The structure at the club is broken beyond belief. I don't think Ole is answer either but there's no point sacking managers and spending millions on compensation plus new players until structure changes. We will just end up in same position after spending loads more cash. Haven't you watched the last 7 years?

 

[Eric's Seagull]

I disagree. When it comes to the board I think they fail with the nitty gritty. Like will he be allowed to bring in his own men? We cannot appoint him and insist on Carrick and McKenna again.

We need to also set transfer expectations. I always feel managers don’t know where they stand and forever assume targets can be obtained when they can’t. No more Pedro and Perisic fiasco’s. If the board don’t believe in the deal don’t drag it out.

Please excuse me if I'm wrong. Are you trying to say that you believe that the board will make the necessary money available for transfers that they feel fit within a certain criteria. Eg not going after someone like Perisic, who we would have to replace anyway in a few years and who would have very little to possibly no resale value?

 

[Mainoldo]

Please excuse me if I'm wrong. Are you trying to say that you believe that the board will make the necessary money available for transfers that they feel fit within a certain criteria. Eg not going after someone like Perisic, who we would have to replace anyway in a few years and who would have very little to possibly no resale value?

Errmmm. Did you not just listen to what i wrote. That was my argument. Your argument was that they wouldn’t provided the sufficient funds which has never been a problem.

The problem is my point and what you’ve just kindly highlighted. So maybe you agree with me without realising.

 

[Greck]

Having a manager with tactical acumen would be hugely beneficial. That Ole could watch us get dominated for an hour and come out postgame to say it was passion not tactics that was the difference shows an underappreciation for that aspect of management.

That 'Pashun' stereotype that gets banded about fits him to a Tee

 

[fps]

All that is speculation, what is fact is that he said that he had the final say in all decisions made in the summer.

TO THE PRESS. What part of the simple idea that he doesn’t say everything he genuinely thinks to the press is it so hard for people to grasp?

 

[Eric's Seagull]

Errmmm. Did you not just listen to what i wrote. That was my argument. Your argument was that they wouldn’t provided the sufficient funds which has never been a problem.

The problem is my point and what you’ve just kindly highlighted. So maybe you agree with me without realising.

Erm maybe . Sometimes I find it hard to understand things, for this I apologise and sometimes it gets awkward. I am personally against buying players who we need to replace in a couple of years as it is going to mess the rebuild up as we could buy older players and in a few years they become deadwood and we have to start again.

 

[momo83]

Our defense is still weak after spending £130m on it over the summer.

The only midfielder who can pass the ball is injured and doesn’t want to be here.

Our forwards seem unable to play together as a team.

If Poch takes over, is it going to be like starting from scratch once again? But this time from a lower base.

If Poch took over last December and made the same singings and same outs. At the very least by now we would have a better drilled team. See Sheffield United, player for player most of them probably not all that , but because of good coaching they have become greater then the sum of their parts and are punching above their weight.

That’s what I think Poch would have done with this exact same squad and 12 months. He’d have our defence, midfield, attackers playing as a team... and we’d probably be in the top 4. But the most important thing is that we would see a style of play, we’d be like Liverpool or City a few years ago where we’d know exactly the position that needs filling to progress.

Under a crap manager like Ole.. we needed a CB got one, but or defence is still crap and even the CB we bought is regressing after a good start. It’ll continue to happen with Ole, we need cm’s if he gets them, other holes will appear, before inevitable those very CM’s that he signs turn to crap