If you don’t understand why Ole is a gamble worth taking… you’re doing football support wrong

redIndianDevil

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So you'd think we'd challenge in year 3 with ole at the helm?
feck no. He is way out of his depth. I knew we were doomed when we made him permanent manager.
 

Skills

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Fair enough.

But Post Porto trebel, Mourinho back then charm and charisma and the myth behind the man.
Ferguson was never interested in coming across as a 'myth' to create a 'cult of personality' around him. I can't think of two more polar opposite people, personality wise.
 

Alabaster Codify7

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When Ole didn't think he was getting the job, there was a freedom in his approach knowing in principle it was a free hit. Once he got the job, he didn't want to be hit and conformed to the fear of getting it wrong and losing an opportunity he could only have dreamt would happen. Whilst other managers believe that they do it their way, and if it doesn't work out another 'big' job will come their way, Ole if sacked tmw would not be offered another job in the prem and probably not a top 5 job in the championship either. You give someone time if you believe they have proven previously that in time they have been successful. We are giving Ole time because of 14 games which we have yet to see replicated. Ole is like fools gold.....
He knows full well that after this gig is up, he's going back to nowhere.

It's all about self preservation mode now. This job is his precious whereby he will do and say anything to hold on to it whether it's playing 5 at the back, ridding the club of all form of expectations and standards or using the youth as shields to hide behind protect himself from criticism which is what we saw him resort to last Thursday.

We know it's always a win win when you field a team filled of youth and reserves. You get praised if you win lose or draw because everyone knows the excitement generated when local lads get simply selected and they are never going to get blamed for coming up short but if they win it's classed as a brave masterstroke.


I said exactly this all summer long. While some were getting giddy at the lip service Ole was paying towards yesteryear, I had a major reservations about what he was saying. I said, paraphrasing, "this is like the school nerd who, at 35, has somehow ended up pulling the popular girl he had a giant crush on in school. He will say and do anything to keep her, because this is his holy grail. He'll turn a blind eye to her cheating on him left, right and centre as long as she sleeps in his bed at the end of the night" (that part was in reference to the board not backing him as fully as he needed and leaving him scarily short while he claimed he was chuffed with everything he had).

Once this job is gone, it's back to normality for Ole - Norwegian teams and, if he's lucky, maybe a team in the lower half of the Eredivisie, maybe a big team somewhere like Serbia. That's it.

I said all summer, once the pressure kicks in when the season actually starts Ole will abandon all this bravado of attacking football and youth, and he'll be playing defensive, cagey football while relying on old, experienced players because they're less risky than youth. I admit i was partially wrong about the latter, he has played youth more than I expected but there's a caveat to that in that he's so short-staffed he's had little choice at times. But ultimately, he proved me wrong a bit there.

The former, I completely stand by and he's proving me right with his 5-man defences and one shot on target in some games while losing 1-0. Dithering on the bench and refusing to take a risk and make a change until its too late.

This bizarre experiment came about through the perfect storm and I do not blame the board for giving him the job - I do blame them for not waiting until the summer, but when he was appointed I wasn't unhappy with it. However, by the season's end i could see we had made a dreadful mistake and that something very, very poor was coming our way. Pull the plug.
 

Sky1981

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Ferguson was never interested in coming across as a 'myth' to create a 'cult of personality' around him. I can't think of two more polar opposite people, personality wise.
I'm not saying Fergie does, all i'm saying is that the post Porto Mourinho was something else.

Mourinho "cult" comes from people who sees something in him, if SAF wasn't a practically 2 club man he'd have his own following.
 

JPRouve

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I think Woodward's biggest failures have been his passiveness and lack of willingness to put the fires out. With each of his appointments, it seems like they need to blow up 10 tonnes of TNT before he'll do anything. If he was willing to make a change more quickly, the club would never have sunk to these lows.

Like you said, hiring a manager is hard. Clubs go through multiple managers, and even the good ones only last for a fairly short time before they're not the 'right fit' anymore.

I personally think, the some of the bigger culprits in our demise have been the fanbase and sanctimonious crap I've read in the OP pretty much confirms my belief. The fanbases of the other bigger clubs across Europe, set the ambition for the club to live up to and are the driving force behind their success. Ours goes the other way, and pretty much eggs the club into being passive while demanding them to waste 100s of millions on projects doomed for failure.
I don't think that I would phrase it that way.

A large part of our fanbase lives in a romanticized world where appointing a great manager is a straightforward and easy process, we also live in a world where every top player should be the reincarnation of Captain Marvel, outside of that the fanbase is very forgiving for the current managers and squad players. The irony of it, is that we are basically uncompromising for the two most difficult and rare things in football, finding a great managers and for a player to be always at his best.

What we should do is leave our best players alone and improve from the bottom of the squad, these "bottom players" are the main reason behind our demise and if a manager can't maximize his team he should be out because that's the minimum expectation, he isn't expected to make it overachieve at all time but there isn't a moment where it should underachieve.
 

Forevergiggs1

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Should he be blamed for last season? I thought the consensus when he took over as caretaker was that the season would be a write off. Nobody expected him to actually come close.
This part I agree with but when Ole first came in he was like a breath of fresh air after Mous regime. I'm sure his instructions were, just go out and enjoy yourself lads. But as soon as we had something to play for (top 4) we bottled it. In our purple patch the players were given a lot of freedom with no pressure on them to perform but as soon as tactics were involved it's where it all started going downhill and quite frankly it hasn't got much better from there.
 

Bobcat

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That's an interesting theory. But our change in form under Ole also coincided with Herrera getting injured, which is less nebulous of an influence. We've struggled still without someone to link attack and midfield with the right balance and skill.

Ole seems, to me, to have promise but he's raw and makes mistakes that are understandable considering his lack of experience but no less painful. United doesn't seem like a good place to learn as a manager, it's too demanding a position. If Ole was coming into the job in 1986 we could give him a few years more easily.

But now that he's here, it seems unfair to sack him if he's showing enough promise, which I think he just about is. Hopefully we have someone qualified to determine if he's progressing fast enough, I have my doubts on that account, I have my doubts about every part of the club but the marketing department. I'm still mad Warren Joyce was let go after winning the title with the reserves 3 out of 4 years!
Ole's stats with and without Herrera are utterly bizarre, both in terms of wins/losses but also goals scored/conceded. The most important player in the team imo and a damn shame he left
 

The Brown Bull

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I’m saying he’s won **** all, which is interesting since he’s considered such a sure thing in here.
He was there 5 years. He was building. How long was SAF here before he won a trophy?
 

Beans

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Ole doesn't lack experience, that's the issue here, he has been managing for more 10 years. And he wouldn't get the job in 1986, the club went for a young, yet experienced manager with domestic and continental success.
He lacks the experience of working his way up into such a job. A few years of reserve team management isn't usually the sort of thing people mention when they're talking about why they're ready to manage a top club. You learn tactical lessons as you work your way up through the ranks.
 

Beans

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Ole's stats with and without Herrera are utterly bizarre, both in terms of wins/losses but also goals scored/conceded. The most important player in the team imo and a damn shame he left
I've been pointing this out since the trend started, Herrera being my favorite player in the team at the time. Of course if we had replaced him with a like player I think we would have been pretty well off for a top 4 finish.
 

Alabaster Codify7

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Ole's stats with and without Herrera are utterly bizarre, both in terms of wins/losses but also goals scored/conceded. The most important player in the team imo and a damn shame he left

Herrera wasn't world class, nowhere near. But he was our second most talented midfielder and our most consistent, over Pogba. Losing him and being completely relaxed about not replacing him was one of the maddest decisions a manager ever made - Herrera made our team tick. Yes, he could have easily been upgraded by a better number 8, but he did so much energetic hard work that allowed others to flourish.
 

Bobcat

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Herrera wasn't world class, nowhere near. But he was our second most talented midfielder and our most consistent, over Pogba. Losing him and being completely relaxed about not replacing him was one of the maddest decisions a manager ever made - Herrera made our team tick. Yes, he could have easily been upgraded by a better number 8, but he did so much energetic hard work that allowed others to flourish.
I dont think thats true. Ole saw what he brought to the team so he was probably losing plenty of sleep when he realized he was not going to be able to replace him. Our spending this summer was only 90 million net. It should have been closer to 200 considering all the holes in the squad
 

JPRouve

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He lacks the experience of working his way up into such a job. A few years of reserve team management isn't usually the sort of thing people mention when they're talking about why they're ready to manage a top club. You learn tactical lessons as you work your way up through the ranks.
He doesn't lack experience, he is just one of the many managers that aren't top level managers or convinced anyone that he had more to offer. No one would say that type of thing about Gourvennec.
 

AneRu

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I dont think thats true. Ole saw what he brought to the team so he was probably losing plenty of sleep when he realized he was not going to be able to replace him. Our spending this summer was only 90 million net. It should have been closer to 200 considering all the holes in the squad
I, too, wouldn't blame Ole for not replacing Herrera as matters could have been out of his control. I think his idea was to bring Longstaff so as to mould him into a deep lying playmaker who would partner McT and Pogba in a midfield 3 whilst Matic was winding down his United career. Didn't work out that way because Matic is absolutely done and we didn't get Lognstaff.
 

Beans

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He doesn't lack experience, he is just one of the many managers that aren't top level managers or convinced anyone that he had more to offer. No one would say that type of thing about Gourvennec.
Fair enough, I meant the experience of naturally progressing from Molde and Swansea to a club like United. Swansea was a horrible failure, if he had done well I would accept that as pretty good evidence, in general. I'd like to see him do well somewhere between the level of Molde and United, generally that's what welook for in managers. Experience at a club like Molde isn't really the sort of thing you look for in a United manger, for the reason I'm talking about.

But now that's he's here, I think he's doing enough for now to keep the job, just about.
 

momo83

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If you don’t understand why jumping out of a plane without a parachute is great fun... then you’re doing fun wrong.
 

Dansk

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It was a gamble worth taking, but now it's the sunk cost fallacy. I don't even really know if the current state of affairs is Ole's fault - the fact that it has been this way under four consecutive managers suggests otherwise - but the fact remains that things have soured to a point where I doubt he can turn it around. There's no evidence that he has what it takes. I'm glad he was given the chance, but I don't like that the club continues to back him through extended periods of utter disaster. Aside from his first ten games where everyone was fighting for a place in the squad, he has never shown that there's anything he might be able to do to solve the problem at this club. It remains unclear what exactly the problem is, because anyone with any sense can see that these performances do not reflect the caliber of the squad, but it's certainly clear by now that Ole is not the man who can make it work. This squad, while far from perfect, is not so bad that routinely dropping points to bottom-half sides should be expected. I strongly doubt that this situation is down to the manager alone, but I still believe that the right manager could move the club in the right direction. That's not Ole.
 

Kostov

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That was a load of crap reading. Big on nostalgia and so much of it is made about Jose Mourinho, which is childish and laughable. It’s December, after 13 games we sit on 11th place and with 17 points. Wake the feck up and smell the coffee.
 

Litch

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That's an interesting theory. But our change in form under Ole also coincided with Herrera getting injured, which is less nebulous of an influence. We've struggled still without someone to link attack and midfield with the right balance and skill.

Ole seems, to me, to have promise but he's raw and makes mistakes that are understandable considering his lack of experience but no less painful. United doesn't seem like a good place to learn as a manager, it's too demanding a position. If Ole was coming into the job in 1986 we could give him a few years more easily.

But now that he's here, it seems unfair to sack him if he's showing enough promise, which I think he just about is. Hopefully we have someone qualified to determine if he's progressing fast enough, I have my doubts on that account, I have my doubts about every part of the club but the marketing department. I'm still mad Warren Joyce was let go after winning the title with the reserves 3 out of 4 years!
Maybe....but I'll tell you something if Edward left or was sacked, they aren't going to the Norwegian league to replace him!!!! When it comes to making money, only the feckin best in the world would be good enough for the Glazers and that's the difference.
 

MackRobinson

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Those who had wanted the manager for so long, and who had insisted with such effort that he’d be the man to Make Manchester United Great Again, became a social media army. Sometimes pride comes before the club you support, and this whole episode has been one of the better examples of that.
Amen.
 

Foxbatt

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He was there 5 years. He was building. How long was SAF here before he won a trophy?
Did Ole win the Cup Winners Cup beating Real Madrid and Bayern Munich on the way?
Did he successfully manage in a decent league?
SAF did all those before he came to United.
 

The Brown Bull

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Did Ole win the Cup Winners Cup beating Real Madrid and Bayern Munich on the way?
Did he successfully manage in a decent league?
SAF did all those before he came to United.
I agree.SAF had proven himself before he came to us.Ole hasn"t.
 
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If you don’t understand that Fred & Andreas can’t play in a CDM2, you’re not doing football management right.
If you do it a week after the same tactic failed miserably against Sheff United, you’re absolutely useless.
 

Di Maria's angel

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It was never worth the gamble. Not even after the PSG game. We had no reason to take the risk but logic is rarely considered at this football club so here we are being dominated by Villa.
 

Russky14

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Clueless tactics.

Sheffield Utd. Totally poor for 70+ mins. Then suddenly he changes from back 3 to a back 4 bing bang bosh. But the when the 3rd went in, there was Ollie discussing with Phelan & Carrick and hey back to a back 3 and invited SU onto them = equaliser. No idea, should have

listening to the none-sense on Radio 5, are the fans going to boo at HT ................... err probably not. No creativity poor poor poor. Mata is in shows OGS no clue as usual.

Spurs - get rid
Arsenal - get rid
Everton - will get rid

Us flip me lets keep the super-sub.
 

Acole9

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He makes the players smile that's all that counts. The results mean nothing.
 

James Ward

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He has to go. The players are all over the place and don't know what they are doing. No decent service whatsoever.
It's embarrassing watching the setup.

Center midfield is rubbish, one of the worst in the league.

Why doesn't he try something different instead of persisting with Andreas and Fred.
 

Adisa

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We said we would make a decision after the season ended. Why didn't we just stick to that?'
 

Mockney

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I’m beginning to find it slightly offensive how appointing and sticking by a former player as manager is somehow being considered some kind of special, uniquely honerable extension of the United way, rather than something literally every club has done at some point since players becoming managers became a thing. Largely with poor results. It’s basically the very reason Liverpool fell behind the pack in the early 90s to begin with.

If he’s bad at it, it really doesn’t matter how noble you consider the concept.
 

Rado_N

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I’m beginning to find it slightly offensive how appointing and sticking by a former player as manager should somehow be considered some kind of special, uniquely honerable extension of the United way, rather than something literally every club has done at some point since players becoming managers became a thing. Largely with poor results. It’s basically the very reason Liverpool fell behind the pack in the early 90s to begin with.

If he’s bad at it, it really doesn’t matter how noble you consider the concept.
@Wumminator thinks this means you’re a bad fan, but he ignores any questions about his standpoint.