redIndianDevil
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feck no. He is way out of his depth. I knew we were doomed when we made him permanent manager.So you'd think we'd challenge in year 3 with ole at the helm?
feck no. He is way out of his depth. I knew we were doomed when we made him permanent manager.So you'd think we'd challenge in year 3 with ole at the helm?
Ferguson was never interested in coming across as a 'myth' to create a 'cult of personality' around him. I can't think of two more polar opposite people, personality wise.Fair enough.
But Post Porto trebel, Mourinho back then charm and charisma and the myth behind the man.
When Ole didn't think he was getting the job, there was a freedom in his approach knowing in principle it was a free hit. Once he got the job, he didn't want to be hit and conformed to the fear of getting it wrong and losing an opportunity he could only have dreamt would happen. Whilst other managers believe that they do it their way, and if it doesn't work out another 'big' job will come their way, Ole if sacked tmw would not be offered another job in the prem and probably not a top 5 job in the championship either. You give someone time if you believe they have proven previously that in time they have been successful. We are giving Ole time because of 14 games which we have yet to see replicated. Ole is like fools gold.....
He knows full well that after this gig is up, he's going back to nowhere.
It's all about self preservation mode now. This job is his precious whereby he will do and say anything to hold on to it whether it's playing 5 at the back, ridding the club of all form of expectations and standards or using the youth as shields to hide behind protect himself from criticism which is what we saw him resort to last Thursday.
We know it's always a win win when you field a team filled of youth and reserves. You get praised if you win lose or draw because everyone knows the excitement generated when local lads get simply selected and they are never going to get blamed for coming up short but if they win it's classed as a brave masterstroke.
I'm not saying Fergie does, all i'm saying is that the post Porto Mourinho was something else.Ferguson was never interested in coming across as a 'myth' to create a 'cult of personality' around him. I can't think of two more polar opposite people, personality wise.
I don't think that I would phrase it that way.I think Woodward's biggest failures have been his passiveness and lack of willingness to put the fires out. With each of his appointments, it seems like they need to blow up 10 tonnes of TNT before he'll do anything. If he was willing to make a change more quickly, the club would never have sunk to these lows.
Like you said, hiring a manager is hard. Clubs go through multiple managers, and even the good ones only last for a fairly short time before they're not the 'right fit' anymore.
I personally think, the some of the bigger culprits in our demise have been the fanbase and sanctimonious crap I've read in the OP pretty much confirms my belief. The fanbases of the other bigger clubs across Europe, set the ambition for the club to live up to and are the driving force behind their success. Ours goes the other way, and pretty much eggs the club into being passive while demanding them to waste 100s of millions on projects doomed for failure.
This part I agree with but when Ole first came in he was like a breath of fresh air after Mous regime. I'm sure his instructions were, just go out and enjoy yourself lads. But as soon as we had something to play for (top 4) we bottled it. In our purple patch the players were given a lot of freedom with no pressure on them to perform but as soon as tactics were involved it's where it all started going downhill and quite frankly it hasn't got much better from there.Should he be blamed for last season? I thought the consensus when he took over as caretaker was that the season would be a write off. Nobody expected him to actually come close.
Ole's stats with and without Herrera are utterly bizarre, both in terms of wins/losses but also goals scored/conceded. The most important player in the team imo and a damn shame he leftThat's an interesting theory. But our change in form under Ole also coincided with Herrera getting injured, which is less nebulous of an influence. We've struggled still without someone to link attack and midfield with the right balance and skill.
Ole seems, to me, to have promise but he's raw and makes mistakes that are understandable considering his lack of experience but no less painful. United doesn't seem like a good place to learn as a manager, it's too demanding a position. If Ole was coming into the job in 1986 we could give him a few years more easily.
But now that he's here, it seems unfair to sack him if he's showing enough promise, which I think he just about is. Hopefully we have someone qualified to determine if he's progressing fast enough, I have my doubts on that account, I have my doubts about every part of the club but the marketing department. I'm still mad Warren Joyce was let go after winning the title with the reserves 3 out of 4 years!
He was there 5 years. He was building. How long was SAF here before he won a trophy?I’m saying he’s won **** all, which is interesting since he’s considered such a sure thing in here.
He lacks the experience of working his way up into such a job. A few years of reserve team management isn't usually the sort of thing people mention when they're talking about why they're ready to manage a top club. You learn tactical lessons as you work your way up through the ranks.Ole doesn't lack experience, that's the issue here, he has been managing for more 10 years. And he wouldn't get the job in 1986, the club went for a young, yet experienced manager with domestic and continental success.
I've been pointing this out since the trend started, Herrera being my favorite player in the team at the time. Of course if we had replaced him with a like player I think we would have been pretty well off for a top 4 finish.Ole's stats with and without Herrera are utterly bizarre, both in terms of wins/losses but also goals scored/conceded. The most important player in the team imo and a damn shame he left
Ole's stats with and without Herrera are utterly bizarre, both in terms of wins/losses but also goals scored/conceded. The most important player in the team imo and a damn shame he left
I dont think thats true. Ole saw what he brought to the team so he was probably losing plenty of sleep when he realized he was not going to be able to replace him. Our spending this summer was only 90 million net. It should have been closer to 200 considering all the holes in the squadHerrera wasn't world class, nowhere near. But he was our second most talented midfielder and our most consistent, over Pogba. Losing him and being completely relaxed about not replacing him was one of the maddest decisions a manager ever made - Herrera made our team tick. Yes, he could have easily been upgraded by a better number 8, but he did so much energetic hard work that allowed others to flourish.
He doesn't lack experience, he is just one of the many managers that aren't top level managers or convinced anyone that he had more to offer. No one would say that type of thing about Gourvennec.He lacks the experience of working his way up into such a job. A few years of reserve team management isn't usually the sort of thing people mention when they're talking about why they're ready to manage a top club. You learn tactical lessons as you work your way up through the ranks.
I, too, wouldn't blame Ole for not replacing Herrera as matters could have been out of his control. I think his idea was to bring Longstaff so as to mould him into a deep lying playmaker who would partner McT and Pogba in a midfield 3 whilst Matic was winding down his United career. Didn't work out that way because Matic is absolutely done and we didn't get Lognstaff.I dont think thats true. Ole saw what he brought to the team so he was probably losing plenty of sleep when he realized he was not going to be able to replace him. Our spending this summer was only 90 million net. It should have been closer to 200 considering all the holes in the squad
Fair enough, I meant the experience of naturally progressing from Molde and Swansea to a club like United. Swansea was a horrible failure, if he had done well I would accept that as pretty good evidence, in general. I'd like to see him do well somewhere between the level of Molde and United, generally that's what welook for in managers. Experience at a club like Molde isn't really the sort of thing you look for in a United manger, for the reason I'm talking about.He doesn't lack experience, he is just one of the many managers that aren't top level managers or convinced anyone that he had more to offer. No one would say that type of thing about Gourvennec.
Off-topic, but is this a new thing? Why can't we copy/paste articles?@Rood
I thought we weren't supposed to copy/paste whole articles anymore?
It's just those behind paywalls. I mistakenly thought it was allOff-topic, but is this a new thing? Why can't we copy/paste articles?
Maybe....but I'll tell you something if Edward left or was sacked, they aren't going to the Norwegian league to replace him!!!! When it comes to making money, only the feckin best in the world would be good enough for the Glazers and that's the difference.That's an interesting theory. But our change in form under Ole also coincided with Herrera getting injured, which is less nebulous of an influence. We've struggled still without someone to link attack and midfield with the right balance and skill.
Ole seems, to me, to have promise but he's raw and makes mistakes that are understandable considering his lack of experience but no less painful. United doesn't seem like a good place to learn as a manager, it's too demanding a position. If Ole was coming into the job in 1986 we could give him a few years more easily.
But now that he's here, it seems unfair to sack him if he's showing enough promise, which I think he just about is. Hopefully we have someone qualified to determine if he's progressing fast enough, I have my doubts on that account, I have my doubts about every part of the club but the marketing department. I'm still mad Warren Joyce was let go after winning the title with the reserves 3 out of 4 years!
Amen.Those who had wanted the manager for so long, and who had insisted with such effort that he’d be the man to Make Manchester United Great Again, became a social media army. Sometimes pride comes before the club you support, and this whole episode has been one of the better examples of that.
Did Ole win the Cup Winners Cup beating Real Madrid and Bayern Munich on the way?He was there 5 years. He was building. How long was SAF here before he won a trophy?
I agree.SAF had proven himself before he came to us.Ole hasn"t.Did Ole win the Cup Winners Cup beating Real Madrid and Bayern Munich on the way?
Did he successfully manage in a decent league?
SAF did all those before he came to United.
This after talking up Axel as a midfielder.If you don’t understand that Fred & Andreas can’t play in a CDM2, you’re not doing football management right.
If you do it a week after the same tactic failed miserably against Sheff United, you’re absolutely useless.
@Wumminator thinks this means you’re a bad fan, but he ignores any questions about his standpoint.I’m beginning to find it slightly offensive how appointing and sticking by a former player as manager should somehow be considered some kind of special, uniquely honerable extension of the United way, rather than something literally every club has done at some point since players becoming managers became a thing. Largely with poor results. It’s basically the very reason Liverpool fell behind the pack in the early 90s to begin with.
If he’s bad at it, it really doesn’t matter how noble you consider the concept.
Wumminator has also never posted anything in this forum that he actually believes.@Wumminator thinks this means you’re a bad fan, but he ignores any questions about his standpoint.